Tony Stewart...........................

[atc007]

http://deadspin.com/reports-tony-stewart-ran-over-opposing-driver-during-1618893708?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebo ok&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

WARNING,, ^^ Video above shows Tony Stuart killing a man. It is graphic.


I'm sure you've all heard he ran over and killed this kid last night. I have this to say. As a motorsports enthusiast with my finger firmly on the do's and don'ts pulse of racing. He was the single biggest reason I quit watching nascar. I personally think it's a great thing I don't put a lot of time and zero dollars into it. But I was a big Earnhart senior fan. Anyhow, I realize this will see the eyes of smoke fans. And to you I am sorry,,not for my opinion. This guy is a hands down,certified,arrogant ,whining sniveling bawl baby. I watched as his sponsors did NOTHING over the years , As Nascar slapped his hands for some of his worst tantrums.. Am I alone in the thought. That no matter how HARD you have worked,,sacrificed,,blah,blah,blah... Once you get a ride in Nascar and you are being paid MILLIONS of dollars,,TENS of millions of dollars.. With THAT, comes the responsibility to be a MAN. To get out of a car you were just wrongly wrecked in and "put on a professional face" I hear his fans,,well, he tells it like it is! No,he is a whiner. HE is allowed to wrong time after time,,but God forbid it is done to HIM!... He is one HECK of a hard worker and race car driver,and now,murderer. Yep,,dramatic perhaps,but nonetheless. Without smokes entitled temper,this 20 yo kid would be alive. Nope, he should not have went out on the track like that.

But,as I've seen a thousand times,sometimes that's what angered racers do. So,does he give him some room,or get an inch from him and goose it!? In a SPRINT CAR! A vehicle designed to Snap left as soon as it is touched.... Unreal. This baby has raced these cars all over the world,and there are few at it better than him . Did he think,I'll show this kid,I'll kill him. No, but he damn sure knew what he was about to do was border line extremely dangerous. The sherrifs office is bought and paid for. Not pressing charges!! Now lets watch the DA's office explain away how poor tony had no idea the dangers involved with driving a Sprint car up that close to a human being and GASSING it... Prayers certainly go out to the victims family.. This ALL could have and should have been stomped out in anger management classes and being fired,decades ago.

[fabiodriven]

That video is absolutely disgusting and I am personally offended that it's OK for people to publicly view such material. I will personally show Tony Stewart how I feel about him if I ever see him in person.

[atc007]

I agree,and I assume it will be pulled down from the internet. . Guys, it breaks this kids back,shoulder,collar bone everything. ANYONE around motorsports,,especially Sprint cars KNOWS exactly what happened here. I am sorry for posting it,,but ,,,this joker is gonna walk,,at least he has for the time being..

[fabiodriven]

He will pay in this life or the next, but he will pay. I hope to run into him. I'm on the verge of tears.

[ebaccm26]

Wow I read about this last night before going to bed but did not realize there was a video and after seeing it I kind of wish I hadn't.

[tripledog]

Looks like Tony's temper got the best of him. Wonder how he'll try and talk his way out of this one. What a scumbag!

[The_Steve_Man]

The white car about hit him first.

[6speedthumper]

What a piece of sh!t... Poor lighting my azz, you can see clear as day that it was an intentional move Stuart made. If we can see that on what was probably a cell phone, then he should have had no problem seeing this guy. Regardless if the kid was stupid to get out of his car. I would watch Nascar on and off when The Intimidator was alive, but have not since his passing...

[fabiodriven]

My brother suggested that it looked like Tony was trying to slide his car and roost the kid but it went terribly awry. From memory, as I refuse to ever watch that video again, I might agree with that. Either way, Kevin should have never exited the car, this much is true. As someone who does horse play from time to time I can see what Tony was trying to do if in fact he was trying to roost the kid. However, Kevin will never sit at another Thanksgiving dinner, have a beer with his buddies, enjoy the comfort of a woman, or breathe another breath again. I wasn't kidding when I said I was fighting back the tears earlier. I've teared up multiple times today as this plays over and over in my head, which is exactly why you do not play around on the race track like that. There is nothing in this world that will bring Kevin back and my thoughts are with his family. I don't know the first thing about Tony or Nascar, but Bill suggests he's a bit of an undesirable character anyways. I would like to see him step down from racing personally. I would shun him myself if he were my peer. It's not up to me what anyone else does or how they should think, but I know how I would handle things if I were part of the brass at Nascar or if I owned a racetrack. Horrible things like that happen in war, but that's not why people go racing on a Saturday night, which makes it exponentially more sad.

My thoughts are with his family and will be of Kevin in the off chance I ever meet Tony in person.

[Dirtcrasher]

He may get smacked with manslaughter this time; And rightfully so!

He's always been a little prick, a whining little losing baby. He wants everybody to play by his rules and when he's not happy and smacks helmets Adam loves Adam in on. I bet that poor kid had put his life, sweat, blood and tears into getting as far as he had gotten further into racing, what a shame. I think it's time he gets a vacation from all race track driving.

[manbearpig]

View from outside the bubble: Not a nascar fan, dont follow the nascar gossip, dont read the nascar enquirer

what i saw in the video is a driver spun out, then got out of his car and intentionally began dodging cars in the middle of a RACETRACK during a RACE. he got hit by a car.

i feel bad for everyone, but i think you guys are going way overkill saying that because of this guys past, he intentionally hit and killed a guy (who WAS intentionally standing on the track in front of EVERYONE) during a race.

[DohcBikes]

I'm on my phone right now so I can't post all my thoughts, but I will say that Ive spent THOUSANDS of hours at dirt tracks and tony was trying to roost him. The kid should've sat his ass in the car and respected to veteran driver, and the rest of the racers. He endangered others lives as well by walking on the track, clearly searching for Stewarts car.

Rule #1. Dont walk down the middle of an open wheel dirt track. On top of that, he's picking his way through race traffic so he can approach and taunt veteran racer tony stewart, a racer known to be aggressive. Tony kicked the rear to roost him, and the kid kept approaching, and low and behold, he got hit.

You say exiting the car happens all the time, NO IT DOESNT. There's why. Standing on a dirt track is moronic...roosting a guy you just spun out, DOES happen. Racing is DANGEROUS. You might even die.

I feel super bad for the kid and his family, but his own actions and temper got him killed out there. It'll be a damn shame if everybody blames Tony for driving his race car around the track.

[fabiodriven]

I don't know the first thing about Tony Stewart or Nascar either. I may be a bit more sensitive than most as I am somewhat "unplugged" from society. I don't watch TV ever and haven't for over a year nor do I listen to radio. I don't read the newspaper or watch the news. Most other people do however, which desensitizes them greatly. Regardless of whether or not Kevin was wrong in exiting his car, he certainly did not deserve the ultimate punishment, being dispatched from this planet in a horribly gruesome fashion in front of all the world to gawk at, for getting out of his car. What if this young man were your brother or your son and he were killed like this by another human being who was playing around on a caution lap, yes a caution lap, where extra caution is exercised and speeds reduced in order for the track to be cleared.

I am extra sensitive by choice. I want to enjoy what this world has to offer me but the flip side of that is how easy it is for me to put myself in someone else's shoes whether the situation be good or bad, which is why I don't watch the news, which makes me more sensitive, and so on. I might suggest, if you have the ability, you put yourself in the shoes of Kevin's brother or father, or his girlfriend or best friend, and imagine that another man who carelessly wiped Kevin off the face of the earth while playing around is walking around living the life of Riley while your loved one is dead and gone forever without ever being able to say goodbye. All because another man wasn't being cautious on a caution lap, but rather playing around instead. A young man is dead because of this. That's not TV or a horror movie, that's a young man's life coming to an end before your eyes all in the name of carelessness. A man was in control of that car. It could have been stopped or driven right by, but it was steered into another man and ended his life. Do you understand this?

[KASEY]

I have watched the video too.. and as a old school sprint car driver .. I saw the rear of the car pitch to the LEFT when he hit the gas not right like he was trying to roost him,,,, MAYBE just maybe tony saw him and realized he was to close and tried to spin the car out away from him?????? different people see different things,,, to think it was done intentionally is ridiculous,,,,,,,,

[fabiodriven]

I have made myself different from most and that choice is mine to make. I don't fault anyone else for their respective points of view. That is why I rarely go on Facebook and up until now I've used 3ww as my news and social media. I am moving out of state to a very unpopulated area to further disconnect myself. I am different, no fault of anyone else and no hard feelings, but I feel as though I may have to now disconnect myself from this place as well. 3ww has been my last place of recognition, where I am accepted and I fit in, the only social media I frequent, my news, and my family. It may be time to part ways though. This world is conditioned to watch events such as these unfold without flinching. Cameras watching soldiers take each other's lives like gladiators in the coliseum and sporting events where a man is penalized with his life for making a mistake. There was a man at the controls of that car and the death he caused was unwarranted, meaningless, and completely avoidable, and it's clear that my view is the less popular one, which is why I've separated myself from society as much as I have. I've come to find that when people tell me I'm crazy or I'm weird or question what it is I'm doing, my persistence in my plotted course nearly always pays off.

You all enjoy your gore at the cost of another man's life.

[tripledog]

Wow! "Track Rage". Who 'da thunk it? Just a sad situation all the way around. Choose your battles wisely, as you may not truly understand what your adversary may be capable of, or unable to avoid.

[DohcBikes]

Enjoying gore is not the point. I certainly don't enjoy watching a fellow racer die. It's certainly unfortunate but man, the guy was pissed, clenching fists, completely oblivious to the danger, and was undoubtedly aggressively approaching race traffic, and he got hit. KASEY might be right, the wiggle is hard to read, he may have kicked it to avoid Kevin. Either way, the kid had lost his temper and reason, and was playing chicken with open wheel race cars on a dirt track.

[Slingblade]

It is so sad that a 20 year old kid lost his life over a spin out on a race track. Absolutely tragic, I can't imigine the pain of his family.

I have watched this video many times and here's my take. First of all, the sound of the car. Watch the first part of the video to get the perspective of the guy filming from the stands and
the sound of the cars. The sound comes from the cars right in front of him, on the front straight. It's possible that is not Tony's car you hear revving but a car closer to the guy filming, sound doesn't "zoom" with the video.

Secondly, the "kicking" of the car. It really looks like the car doesnt kick until he actually hits Kevin. As bad as that may sound, that's my perspective. Watch the video without sound and it will give you a different look.



The kid was mad, running on a boost of adrenaline, leaned in to give Stewart what for. Tony is a bull-headed arse and wasn't budging a bit, maybe even moved up a little to buzz him.

Then came the reminder of just how big the right rear is on a sprint car, and in that second a kid lost his life, a father and mother lost a son. Lives changed forever.

I, too was almost moved to tears when I watched this today. I can't believe it's still up, even on youtube and Sportscenter. I'm not a Stewart fan at all, never liked him.

But that is my perspective.

[El Camexican]

Testosterone gone wild, plain and simple. The kid made a BIG mistake, no doubt, but was he murdered? Only one person knows for sure.

[jakep53]

first off my prayers to the kids family.....I watch NASCAR but not very often so I am not familiar with the driver but he sounds like an ass!! but the kid should not have let his anger get the better of him he was dodging cars in the middle of a RACETRACK and as the driver comes around the kid steps forward getting struck by the tyre causing the car to fishtail both men were in the wrong but sadly it ended up the way it did!!

[atc007]

Car pitched to the left,,,AFTER he killed him. After.. There is zero doubt Kevin should have stayed in his car. To say that he was right to charge traffic would be ludicrous. And I assure you,by next weekend,it will be law at every race track in America that a driver will only be allowed to be dismissed form his racecar until.... A, On fire, B, In grave danger he feels he HAS to get out. Or C, The track safety crew has granted him permission...... To pay with his life over a temper COULD have been avoided. Anyone who would argue it wasn't tony's temper hasn't seen much of his career. He knows,and will now live with it everyday of the rest of this life,,and probably the next .. I just simply feel, there is NO place for his type of attitude in big league motorsports,or anywhere else as far as I'm concerned. JMO,, There will be a lot of changes out this week because of it.

[jakep53]

Over here in Oz recently a spectator was killed while walking through a pitstop and the car hit him and now they have to push pull or tow the cars around the pitstop!!

[DohcBikes]

Why should the racer that stayed in his race car on a race track be forced out of his line to avoid a crazed, angry idiot that's running around TRYING TO GET CLOSER TO CARS. Idve held my line as well.

Blaming Stewart is about like blaming Honda for killing people with ATC's.
Tonys past has nothing to do with this incident. If it were any other driver the kid had jumped in front of a race track, y'all wouldn't be so quick to judge. If it were Dale Jr. Youd be blaming the kid.

Bill your 'rules' for not leaving a car,,, ARE in effect at most tracks, but are things that any driver knows. So here we go with more rules because this kid didn't respect his own sport and fellow drivers. Again, KEVIN put many others in danger with the bone head move that cost his life.


Its a race track. Dont walk on it, you might get hit and die. R.I.P. Kevin.

P.S....funny that several Stewart haters here have mentioned how much they love and miss Dale Sr. One of the most aggressive and dangerous drivers in history.

[DohcBikes]

Its not about the inconvenience. Its about the danger it poses to the racers that stayed in their cars like they were supposed to. Crash avoidance is not as easy as you think on a dirt track folks. The kid made a huge mistake and it cost his life, that's all. Keep blaming from your inexperienced chair. Its all been said now anyway.

[atc007]

Since I started this thread,I should try and clarify a bit,which I suck at :) Clearly,everyone has an opinion.Mine is this. I HAVE watched,,unfortunately,,for the last 20 ? years.. Tony Stuart,,smoke,as his supporters call him. Dirt track,open wheel, nascar..MANY different cars and venues. During interviews, Completely and totally disrespect,swear,punch, yes punch,,throw the interviewers family,friends,network,nascar,and everyone else he could think of ATM to whine about,under the bus.. If he rubs you 20 times in a corner,and you rub him ONCE,,Literally,,once. YOU should be banned,your team,,etc. It really is like WWE,but in his mind,,it IS the way it is. Obviously,,it strikes a great chord with many,as he has LOTS of supporters.Stuart has MANY times,done the EXACT SAME thing he killed Kevin for. Jumped out of his racecar,like a angry raging bull and walked down to the cars,sometimes throwing his helmet,,and having his helmet bounce off and HIT him. THAT close. So,is this new for smoke to see a raging mad driver waiting for him under caution. No,not by ANY stretch of the imagination. He has certainly seen it 50 times,most likely 100 or more. This guy has raced all around the world for many decades! Did these other drivers HE charged,have the common sense to not try and scare him,and run him down. Yes. But He decided to "show" this kid. Again,it would be ridiculous to say he premeditated this.But he DID,absolutely ,intend to get as close as possible. The ONLY thing,and I mean the ONLY thing that SHOULD save his ass,will be a video,showing Kevin tripping and falling toward his wheel. And he shouldn't have been that close anyhow. The "sheriffs department" is awaiting go pro in car videos,,,,which as of late last night. They had ZERO, nada,none,not one. It was said that most EVERY car there has a go pro in it.?? They have "none" in their posession. They are also awaiting"fans cell videos and other angles" After,closing the track and escorting everyone out of the facility. Generally,but not always,,if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck,it might be a duck. Hopefully tons of video shows up this week for BOTH sides to try and gain some peace.

[DohcBikes]

Yep that's right and if tony had been the one to die from charging a race car, he wouldn't want people to blame the driver.

Watching, yes. Many have been watching for a long time. Some of have been racing. I see just a couple posts indicating dirt track experience. Guess what the opinion is of these people...

Thanks for starting the thread Bill! Great place to discuss this with all the brains here. Hopefully we can keep it civil and continue to dicuss instead of argue!

[oldskool83]

I didn't see the news but I watched the video...revved his motor and hit the guy. I think all the guy wanted was for him to stop maybe take it to the fists.

He should see jail time or just killed. It was caught on tape. Def no need to hit the guy.

I know nothing about this type of racing or this Tony guy but he's a walking lying dead man for all I can see now.

[ironchop]

Here`s my take:

I wasn`t there. I saw an unfortunate video which should not have been posted to the media out of respect for the victims family. I saw a guy get mad at another driver, got his hackles in an uproar, walked onto the track on a caution lap, assumed the ENTIRE WORLD STOPS FOR HIM and his attitude, tried to stop the offending car acting like a dickhead, and then got runover and killed by the dickhead behind that guy whom he had no issue with.

I`m a fan of all forms of dirt track. being a Hoosier native, I watched Tony since the 80`s because he was a local successful racer. Sprints, Outlaw wedges, Roadrunner classes, etc. Dirt track racing is very popular south of Indy and I also frequented Kitley in Indpls for many years.

I don`t know what kind of white-washed sissy racing they been showing everyone on TV, but Dirt Track racing where I`m from has fistfights, chest-pounding, posturing, gangs of crews will have group melees, and fans will fight drivers and crew. You take a bunch of workin class stiffs, spend all their pay for two years on a raggedy "racecar" and suddenly a $1000 purse becomes a matter of survival for many of them and they get emotional, reactionary, and outright violent when they lose. I know since NASCAR has been sanitized SO much everyone tends to think that nothing but Renaissance (sp?) Gentlemen pursue the sport. This race where the guy was killed is NOT NASCAR and its NOT F1, or Indy and they don`t play by the same gentlemen`s rules and expectations. Now I`m NOT condoning any of this behavior but to act as if these are isolated incidents in any form of auto racing is really just kidding ourselves. Guys die every weekend all across this country and a lot of times it was caused or was contributed to by heated tempers and irrational decisions. I can`t count the Dirt track races on one hand that have ended in a death....spectators, drivers, crew members, race officials and even seen an EMT get killed once.

On the "tony is a crybaby" and therefore is to blame or whatever I think is a little unfair. I don`t watch NASCAR at all.......not for years....wanna know why? Because they are ALL a bunch of whiny pussies on camera....Gordon crys and blames, Tony complains and blames, Danica whines, they ALL are a bunch of entitled little narcissists and THE LARGEST group of sore-losing whiners in ALL of professional auto racing...period. That facet has infected all of NASCAR and the problem is the staunch fan base will excuse all their own favorite driver`s transgressions and outright bad behavior but are indoctrinated to throw an absolute fit should any other driver act in a similar manner. The Hypocrisy around NASCAR is reaching legendary status. You take a bunch of hillbilly speed freaks and toss them into a 1.5 million dollar car and expect them to act like Lords and Ladies it isn`t goin to happen......no more than handing a troubled child a sports scholarship full ride to a major university and we all think somehow he will forget about acting like a ghetto thug and become and instant knight of the Roundtable....all too often our expectations exceed the abilities or personal expectations of those we have placed upon a pedestal. Once they show any HUMAN traits, we get our hackles up in arms and we are ready to condemn.

The truth is, ALL professional sports could use a healthy dose of "professional" all around and maybe the fact that it was a famous driver involved might shed some light on a problem that is endemic and needs to be addressed NOW. It is, by no means, rare or new and it needs to stop.


I have met Stewart numerous times so I have a little different take on his personality than many of the internet experts, I guess. I`m reserving my comments about him for another time because these days folks see what they want and they won`t listen long enough to change their mind. Just know this, Tony is no more a giant dick like he portrays himself on TV and Willie and Jase Robertson are nowhere near as funny or lazy as they appear on TV either, I`m sure. I could go on for days about judging people by their TV personas but it`s moot really.

The fact remains that one young man has lost his life too soon and somewhere, there is a family who is in mourning while the media is having a gore-fest showing the death of their son. Meanwhile Stewart haters want him dead or beatup.........This ain`t about dirt-track racing....This ain`t about being a badass driver with a bone to pick....it isn`t about NASCAR......or Chevy.....This ain`t about Stewart....or Sprint.....or manliness.

This is about a dead driver and his family and friends. Right now is THEIR TIME. Right now it`s about HIM.

I think we should all take a minute and remember what this is about. His family ain`t buried him yet and despite this, the entire country and race fans are all making this ALL ABOUT how THEY feel about it. His family doesn`t give a damn what any of us thinks about this situation and righly so.....they need peace right now.

Now ain`t the time for speculation or judgement...It`s a time for mourning, reflection, and getting your own affairs in order in case your family has to bury you too soon as well....Now is the time to remember life is precious and hating first thing on a Monday morning is counterproductive...after this then will be the time for investigations and finger pointing and banning and whatnot....that's all I`m sayin on this subject

[fabiodriven]

Avoid a crash with another vehicle by killing a man in the process DOHC? Seriously?

[86T3]

Ive watched it a couple times on three different occasions after reading comments to see if what i read was true. I dont like watching it but i really would like to know what happened. From watching it i realized that most people commenting on this on espn have no clue what theyre talking about. Most of the comments here are pretty valid but ill explain a couple things that are important to this accident. Sprint cars have direct drives, they need to be push started and can only go so slow before they stall. The other important aspect of sprint cars is that they have a ton of tire stagger in the rear which means the right rear tire is a larger diameter than the left rear. When the punch the throttle on these cras it makes the car turn left and it pitches the rear to the right.

Like i said, i watchd the video a couple times but without the ability to slow the video down i really have a hard time being able to tell what happened. It appears to me that tony was going a little faster than the first car that missed kevin and he did seem to be higher on the track but his car never changed direction until the right rear tire hit kevin. Thats when the car swerved to the right and thats when you hear an engine rev (which is probably tony's car but it could have been any car on the track) If tony punched the car to roost kevin the car would have swerved to the left. I think this was just an unfortunate act but i feel that its mostly kevin's fault. The only thing in life that you are truely in control of is what you do. He put himself in a situation where he was in serious danger and unfortunately payed the ultimate price for it. I feel terrible for kevin, his family, and tony, i can imagine that noones life will ever be the same after

[DohcBikes]

Avoid a crash with another vehicle by killing a man in the process DOHC? Seriously?
The kid expected cars to stop so he could throw a fit. He stormed into race traffic and got hit.

You said earlier if it were my brother id feel different. Nope. Well first, my brothers would never make the mistake Kevin made, the one that cost his own life. If they did, then I'd be pissed at them for putting their own life and the lives of other racers in danger like that.

If Tony comes out and says "I shoulda moved, he'd be alive"... then you bet your ass I'll change my tune, because as ironchop suggests, Tony is not the monster y'all are trying to portray. I don't expect that to happen.

[DohcBikes]

^^NO.......it`s the racing and holding the line......and the never learning about HUMILITY that is a direct proportion to the size of their PENISES OR their peni or their moms should be slapped for raising them that way !You sure do talk about private parts a lot.

Humility, you mean the virtue that should have kept a spun out racer from throwing a tantrum?

[ironchop]

You know why street racing is outlawed?

So pedestrians and other motorists dont get killed. DUH!

You know what is not allowed on the track during a race?

Pedestrians and other motorists.

I would guess its also ok to walk out onto the highway in a rage and if someone else hits you, obviousy they meant o and therefore, the victim is somehow not responsible for his own actions?

[DohcBikes]

Excellent input glamy!! Way to stay on topic. You are wrongly passing judgement on me, just as people are passing judgement on Smoke. The personal nature of your reply is an indication that you are out of valid points to share, and are now just attempting to save face by making negative comments about a completely unrelated subject.

Apologies to 007, my opinion on the subject is just an opinion, and it has been clearly stated already.

[fabiodriven]

DOHC, if you could avoid hitting a person and killing them you would regardless of what line you're holding (on a caution lap?), so please swallow your pride and consider re-wording what you said. You act as if you would strut away from killing a young man who made a mistake with your head held high for slaying him and I can assure you that you would not. You would mourn and wish you could turn back time to possibly do something differently to have prevented such an incident, and that's assuming it was an accident. If you killed someone on purpose in order to hold a line on a caution lap, that would just make you an evil man, which you are not, which is why that would never happen, so can you please stop clinging to your words previous and consider what life is? Obviously the kid should have stayed in his car, this much everyone knows, however the penalty for that mistake should not be death. Yes you can get killed running out on to a race track, but this accident could have been avoided by the worst of drivers with a simple adjustment in trajectory from the the driver. Just an inch or two of input to the steering wheel from the driver and Kevin would still be alive today. If that effort is too much for a man to make in order to preserve his fellow man's existence, then that man can and will be judged.

Since you would like to speculate so nonchalantly about life and death, I will endulge you. Let's say for the sake of argument that you were driving your race car on the local track (since you have, since you've done everything, hooray for you) and Kevin had an issue with your actions on the track and charged your car and you held your line on a caution lap and killed him purposely because he was in the wrong for leaving his car. You would stand there smugly, as you claim you would, and proclaim to his family and friends that you have no problems continuing your life with a smile on your face and your head held high after slaughtering their friend or family member senselessly because you didn't feel like avoiding him. You are his judge, jury, and executioner and decided in that moment that the young man deserved to die for leaving his car and approaching yours. B-Fing-S DOHC, B-Fing-S.

Yes the kid shouldn't have left his cockpit, true, but he wasn't struck and killed by a speeding car that was out of control and was making every effort to avoid him. He was hit in a very lackadaisical manner by a careless driver who could have avoided killing the kid, whether he be right or wrong, with a very simple movement of his arm. Regardless of how Tony portrays his feelings about this situation to the public, I can assure you that he would do a better job than I have about making you rethink your words because he is going through some really strong, tough emotions right now that, unless you've ever killed someone, you have never felt and therefore should not be speculating on.

The death was avoidable, plain and simple. Rules don't matter when an innocent young man lay dead in an avoidable situation such as this. It's not war, it was racing for sport, not death. Go kill the next J-walker you see and report back on how you feel.

[ironchop]

My biggest hope for all this not to have occurred in vain.....that we didn't use this tragedy to sit down and have serious discussion about both Track safety and sportsmanship in all sports. The only way we will ever make headway is if we teach our kids that football players dont kill, basketball players dont rape, and race drivers dont track rage (nvrmnd who is at fault), and little league parents dont brawl with refs. That behavior will never be tolerated again. Only then, will this stuff stop. Currently, our sports heros are terrible role models.

The positive thing about this thread is that wether or not I agree with your opinion, I must admit its nice to know everybody gives a damn about a strangers life enough to curse your friends at 3WW so there just might be hope for Humanity yet. Y'all are cool as F#$K for real.

[DohcBikes]

All of what you just said is moot fabio. My opinion is that Tony Stewart did not intend to hit Kevin Ward. Its not your call or mine as to whether it could have been avoided. Like el said, one person knows. You can attempt to twist words and make it sound as if I said I would a ran him over, but that isn't what I said, so it's a waste of time. What I said was, I'dve held my line just like tony did. Move down? So the kid chases him further down the track, then what? Gets hit by the next car.

Charged race cars on a race track, got hit. Very sad and unfortunate, but his own mistake. Ive already stated, if tony says he could have avoided it, then I'll be surprised and pissed at him. Until then it isn't your call to say it could have been avoided by tony. One thing we do know for sure is that if Kevin had sat tight he'd probably be alive.

[fabiodriven]

Doug that is exactly what will happen, more rules. That's exactly what this country needs is more rules. God forbid anyone be held accountable for their actions and punished accordingly anymore. There will be public outcry for more rules and the rest of the racers from now on will have to adhere to them because of the poor judgment of two men. That's exactly what our country wants, "us" to ask for more rules and laws rather than them being imposed upon us.

DOHC, I'll quote your words when I get back to Massachusetts if I have time after Wednesday. They're here for everyone to see anyways, I don't need to twist them and I'd not do that to anyone so please drop the finger pointing.

[DohcBikes]

Why should the racer that stayed in his race car on a race track be forced out of his line to avoid a crazed, angry idiot that's running around TRYING TO GET CLOSER TO CARS. Idve held my line as well.

Blaming Stewart is about like blaming Honda for killing people with ATC's.
Tonys past has nothing to do with this incident. If it were any other driver the kid had jumped in front of a race track, y'all wouldn't be so quick to judge. If it were Dale Jr. Youd be blaming the kid.

Bill your 'rules' for not leaving a car,,, ARE in effect at most tracks, but are things that any driver knows. So here we go with more rules because this kid didn't respect his own sport and fellow drivers. Again, KEVIN put many others in danger with the bone head move that cost his life.


Its a race track. Dont walk on it, you might get hit and die. R.I.P. Kevin.

P.S....funny that several Stewart haters here have mentioned how much they love and miss Dale Sr. One of the most aggressive and dangerous drivers in history.
There ya go. Now you won't have to look for it.

[ironchop]

Yeah John I agree the official position will probably be a demand for more rules......you and I both don't want that. I was hoping maybe we could sit down like adults and teach ppl how to deal with others without it resulting in death or maiming. It always ends with more supervision of ' free will' without addressing personal responsibility, doesn't it?

[ironchop]

Its the time-tested and often disproved method of behavior modification by prohibition rather than the often successful yet tragically overlooked Education as a form of behavior modification....but.wtf.do i know?

[fabiodriven]

I can handle it myself DOHC, stand by.

[6speedthumper]

It still amazes me that we are the dominant species...

[atc007]

I didn't want it to turn into this,but feared it would. We will ALL have our own opinions. As El said,,ONE person KNOWS for damn sure what happened. And I will flat out 100% money clad guarantee you exactly what he truly feels right now,,actually,,I retract that. As the complete and total disrespect he has shown to his fellow man for the last couple decades would suggest I am wrong that he KNOWS he should have swerved . Anyhow, Kevin made a mistake.. A mistake made EVERY single weekend,,week in week out around the world. That Tony Stuart has SEEN a thousand times and personally experienced a lot. What happened AFTER Kevin QUIT walking,was then TONY's fault. At any rate,I 99% believe he will walk. And most likely not even loose so much as a sponsor. I really like the 2 of you slugging it out,so lets just agree to disagree gentleman? For lil ol me lmao!!! My Brother in law is a Gordon fan,since go cart days. A real fan, Also,,a smoke fan. He wanted to start today. I said,really,,I just don't care too. He was talking about it was too dark,and Kevins suit and helmet were black etc.. I said please,,,seriously?? You truly and honestly believe what you are saying??? They can race at break neck speed,and everyone else could see him except smoke? Ok. I am back to life as usual,,== No tv. When there were NO other videos last night at 10 pm. That stunk more than a little to me. Hope I'm wrong ,and lots are showing up. Because I am guessing,between go pros,and cell phones. With Tony Stuart at a local upstate NY track,there should be in the neighborhood of no less than 100 or so views. If that starts happening,I will feel much better for both sides.

[just ben]

I have seen a couple mentions of Stewart being a hot head, great. Does that mean he intentionally ran him down? Obviously the kid is a hot head also. If the first car that avoided him had hit him this thread wouldn't exist. I real terrible for everyone involved but did the kid think he was going to stop a car moving at 40 mph or what? What was he doing? The inital crash wasn't anyone else's fault either. He had room and couldn't hold onto it. Maybe they had scrapes during the race that upset him before the crash. I don't know I wasn't there and havnt seen video of the whole race. As far as being avoidable, well I don't know I wasn't in the car however I have hit a deer at 30 mph that ran into me in broad daylight and I could not have avoided it at all. Add the fact of beinging in the dark. I have never raced a sprint car but I have raced trikes at night and can say from experience that the lighting is much better from the stands than on the track. It' kind of like a night light most of the time with periods of almost complete darkness also with periods of staring in the sun. So to say he seen him and could have avoided the accident is silly unless you were driving. I am not a Stewart fan or even an auto racing fan and a am only going by what I have seen and night time track conditions that I have seen myself.
m

[hoosierlogger]

I can imagine a person in a black fire suit walking on a dirt track at night could be hard to see. The white car in front of tony almost hit him first. I dont believe it was purposely done. I can imagine suddenly seeing someone standing where you least expect them to be could startle a driver.

True Kevin should have stayed in the car instead of getting out and rushing onto the track. A life was lost in the blink of an eye. Keep him and his family in your thoughts and prayers.

It's not my position to judge. That's gods job not mine.

Keep classy people.

[atc007]

Since I've been married .. I have spent the last 15 years trying to be a MUCH,much more opened minded person.. That is very hard to do when you have worked and sacrificed so much for so long,and it has worked. But I have tried. And I wanted to SEE the lighting. And I completely understand nice lighting for the spectators can be blinding/or dark for on track. But I'm thinking.. That safety crew was AT Kevin almost as his corpse stopped rolling. So,there were safety trucks, with Bright lights,, Flashing lights etc...So,,,I just VERY reluctantly went back and watched this horrific video.. Kevins suit has a LOT of bright,,perhaps,reflective. But nonetheless BRIGHT white tape. From his head to his toes. 4 stripes. make NO mistake,he saw him. Then,I saw something horrifying. And I very reluctantly watched it again. It is still up for all to see. Which is surprising to me. So,,,YOU watch it,as hopefully I am not gonna post here again. Kevin jumps away from Tony. He SO clearly JUMPS out of the freaking way. This video,and this video alone is all I need. I had missed it the first 2 times I watched it. I am now Literally sick to my stomach. he tried JUMPING out of his way....Watch it for yourself. And that damn car NEVER swerved a single MILLIMETER till he ran him down.

[El Camexican]

With all due respect Bill, those strips are on the sides of his body. He's black as coal from the front which is how Stewart would have seen him if that was even where he was looking. He may have been focused on the wreck he caused and not seen him at all (or not).

[danbur55]

Having raced stock cars years ago my thought is when he stepped in front the first car it slowed, tony moved up to avoid it not being able to see thru the other car to know that someone was in front of him. also bear in mind faceshield with tearoffs causing glare from lights. dont intend to defend or condemn either party involved as both did something wrong or this tragedy would not have happened. prayers are with the Ward family and friends

[atc007]

With all due respect Bill, those strips are on the sides of his body. He's black as coal from the front which is how Stewart would have seen him if that was even where he was looking. He may have been focused on the wreck he caused and not seen him at all (or not).


And MY opinion is. Tony WAS looking straight AT the car/driver he just spun ,and NOTHING else..Not the hot dog stand..I don't like this thread,who's the Idiot that started it lol !??? I should have just said to myself. I'm not Tony,I'll never know. Thanx for all the different views on things fellers!! I truly find it amazing how we can all look at one thing and see it 100 different ways:) :)

[86T3]

Kevin did try to jump out of the way of tony's car but a second before that he had to step out of the way of the car in front of Tony. Being a rude jerk in a interview and throwing a helmet at a car (not running into a cars direct path while doing it) are very far from using a car as a weapon to murder someone. I personally believe that he didnt see him, there are a million things that could have had Tony's attention in the 1 second window that he could have seen Kevin after the first car swerved to miss him. I could be wrong but it isnt my job to judge. The Ontario PD said they had 2 videos yesterday and there was zero evidence of any wrongdoing but they are still investigating, maybe the second video will come out and be from a better angle.

[atc007]

I keep swearing to myself I'll leave this thread alone. By NO means am I saying tony aimed to murder Kevin. It just happened,by temper IMHO.

[fabiodriven]

I do give heed to the argument of limited sight under the lights. I've never raced under the lights, but I've driven/ridden enough in poor sight conditions to know there certainly is a chance the kid could have appeared out of nowhere if Tony couldn't see that well through his goggles or visor. Sometimes I ride with enough vision to see the vehicles in front of me, but I wouldn't necessarily be able to see a person pop up if I weren't expecting them. That's a side of the argument I hadn't taken into account prior.

[danbur55]

I do give heed to the argument of limited sight under the lights. I've never raced under the lights, but I've driven/ridden enough in poor sight conditions to know there certainly is a chance the kid could have appeared out of nowhere if Tony couldn't see that well through his goggles or visor. Sometimes I ride with eThat's a side of the argument I hadn't nough vision to see the vehicles in front of me, but I wouldn't necessarily be able to see a person pop up if I weren't expecting them. taken into account prior.
i dont think any of us are trying to argue just merely stating our view, and in my case i have somewhat been there and couldnt always see beyond the car ahead of me except in corners and that was a stock car not a sprint with wings on mine as well as the one ahead

[Fox250R]

IF the kid wouldn't of got out of his car like an idiot, this never would of happened.
Simple.

[Thorpe]

IMO, Tony is a hothead. I personally, am not a fan. But...

In my own personal experiences, one time whacked a deer at 30 miles and hour, at dusk... Not driving into a caution, or an accident zone, no cars, strobes, hotdog stands, fans, or any distractions. But I never even had a second to flinch, let alone tap the brakes or swerve till it was too late. Just food for thought

[Dirtcrasher]

My Thoughts.

Tony is an ARSE and everyone knows it; I bet Kevin was well aware of this and reminded of this by his crew.

(I guess Tony knocked him into the wall on the prior lap??) So, Both Tony and Kevin would have been focused on that turn which is pretty easy to remember; There isn't allot of distance here guys. Speeds should have dropped at that point where Kevin was slammed on the wall.

I think he was hard to see but that Stewart prick is such an a$$hole that I be he did intend to slam/scare this kid. (Lets show him how it's really done!!) and killed him. I can't say he wanted to kill him, (although he'll still sleep just fine!), you have to be one narcissistic, soulless person if death were the intent.

Kevin had to know Stewarts whole deal as a person and he was pissed, and it got him killed. Racetracks aren't walking trails, take it to the pits.....

[atc007]

Lol,, this is a copy and paste from my buddies email to me. As we already know . I feel his view is extremely limited and narrow viewed.

They need to hang Tony Stewart by his balls. I heard he was driving aggressively,,,,On a race track,,,during a race.... What was he thinking???? I mean it can't be the guys fault that got out of his car and walked into traffic.


I said this horse is dead for me. He's not a 3 wheel guy :). So he hadn't seen this. I said, IMHO, tony just wrecked this kid,which is racing, I don't care the exacts of the wreck itself. Lighting? Nope, there was lighting. As a human,he was very obviously going to be focusing on the car/driver that he just had the incident with. I have talked now to 3 customers who were at the track. 1 was in the pits,she saw nothing,heard the caution,,then the screams after it had gone yellow for a while. 2 watched it. They said tony came around and while they were not sitting on his lapp,,,he damn sure saw him, roosted him, and misjudged. They were adamant about their opinions. Like El said. there's only 1 person that damn skippy knows. On a side note, As I have never been a stewart fan.My B in law,who is a smoke fan, said his Daddy owns a bunch of hotels and racetracks,and he is a spoiled freaking brat. THAT makes a LOT more sense to me as I've watched his interviews and entitlement over the years. I though he worked his butt off at a machine shop growing up and earned his way to the top? Either way. His actions have certainly spoke louder than his words,if that's possible. I certainly don't think he meant to kill this guy SteveO. What are you doing up at 3 am ! Hope you're feeling better!!

[atc300r]

This is a bad deal all the way around. Kevin lived a town over from me.I never met him some of the tracks he raced at(Can-Am ,Evansmills And Adirondack Speedway) are in my area.

[Caminofeld]

I only saw the one camera angle, but it looked like the guy's head got caught by the spoiler. I don't follow NASCAR, but can't imagine there would be enough evidence to charge him with homicide. Lighting conditions were negligible and maybe he was focused on Kevin's car thinking he was still in it?

I'm not Stewart, so I'll never know his true intentions...but I will say if you're stupid enough to walk out in traffic during a sprint car race (which are notorious for crashing all the time) then you shouldn't be surprised if something bad happens. Darwinism at work.

[atc300r]

I dont believe it was Stewarts intent to run over Kevin.Poor lighting,black firesuit.The view from the cockpit of a sprint car is very obstucted by the wing.Go on youtube and check videos from the driverseat of spintcars.About half of the Nascar drivers are hotheads.Earnhardt senior was a bigger ahole than Stewart.In my opinion.

[Flossyb20]

Sadly, they can charge him with whatever they want, but unless he flat out comes out and says he meant to hit/scare/buzz him, none of it will stick. On a racetrack, not a public highway, he has no legal obligation to avoid people running across the track in the middle of a race. The most we can hope for is that the kid's family files a wrongful death lawsuit against him and takes him to the bank, No matter what your opinion is about what happened, it could have easily been avoided. As bad as it is, I feel much worse when fans in the stands are killed, as they're considered safe if behind that wall, unlike this kid. Do we ask for the head of the driver who intentionally causes and accident that kills fans?? Just something to chew on...in the end it's a sad situation all around, and for the sport of racing in general.

[DohcBikes]

You have no idea if it could have been avoided.

[hoosierlogger]

You have no idea if it could have been avoided.

If he would have stayed in his car it never would have happened. This thread would have never existed, tony would still be an a-hole, but a family would still have their son.

[Mosh]

I used to have a friend about 15 years ago. Sold me my first 200x..
He raced sprint cars. Car spun out he stayed in it. During caution another driver did not realize yellow flag was out and t-boned Bill collapsing his roll bar into his leg causing a amputation. This was followed by a host of health issues which eventually resulted in his death a number of years later. He continued to race until his health failed some 20 years after the accident. He followed all the rules.
Point is it is racing. With anything dangerous we all choose to do it full well knowing the risks involved.
You can apply that to anything.
When Dale Sr wrecked many people threatened the guy who tapped his bumper and spun him in the wall.
People should not be held responsible when things go wrong in a high risk situation. Usually when you put on a helmet neck brace and fire suit and strap in a ten point harness.....you know deep down for whatever reason you MIGHT not make it back. From racers to astronauts...
Take that for what it is worth.

[DohcBikes]

If he would have stayed in his car it never would have happened. This thread would have never existed, tony would still be an a-hole, but a family would still have their son.
Yes I agree 100%. I forgot to add 'by tony' at the end of 'you have no idea if it could have been avoided'. My opinion is plastered all over this thread. Also, I was a little tipsy last night and misread flossy's post, haha...

[3wheelerfan1991]

Not trying to start any BS here, but in my opinion getting out of the car and walking out into the racetrack.. what did he expect? If not Tony i think someone else was likely to hit him. I dont think he was out to hurt the kid just bad turn of events.

[atc007]

In all of the races I've seen in my 44 years. After a racer is wrecked and their car won't go anymore,,,they get out of their car.. To charge angrily towards the guy that helped you? Yep,happens every weekend.It IS racing. Kevin picked the wrong guy to do it too. His Dad said at his funeral yesterday, they would like Kevin to be remembered as one heck of a racer,not a victim. I thought that spoke volumes of the family.

[86T3]

Idk Bill, Kevin's dad has some scathing comments about Tony also. As i see it they're no different than Michael Brown's parents. Both of their kids did something very stupid and wound up dead and both parents are blaming the wrong person.

[El Camexican]

Looks like Tony is racing again, but I'm surprised by how long the investigation is taking. They must be looking awfully hard at videos. I was on then fence as the wheather or not he would be charged, but it's starting to look like this might not be a whitewashed event.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nascar/2014/08/29/tony-stewart-sponsors-weigh-their-support-atlanta-return-kevin-ward-jr/14826789/

If he's not charged who's up for protesting in Ontario county? If things get crazy maybe we can bust down the doors of the local NAPA dealer and get some free oil and air fresheners? Oh wait, I forgot, this was a white on white crime, no one cares about that.

[atc007]

I had a customer here last night who races/is in the process of selling everything because of politics. He said Stewart /Hass released a Oscar winning portrayal of Tony's view of things to the press yesterday. He said it was like watching a POW overseas read how awesome his captors are. I have not seen it yet. Hoping to google it tonight. Heck El,,I like your thinking. Maybe I can pick up a size 12 belt to hold my pants around my kness for these events! Course, if we raid the Napa store,,,we would have to WORK installing our parts ? :) ;)

[DohcBikes]

Here we have a wonderful example of people not accepting that they are wrong. White on white crime? There so far is no evidence that a crime commited, according to the POLICE that you all trust the opinion of sooooo much. I could have predicted the weak comparison days ago. I even remember the suggestions of the police being paid off to clear him.... But surely these angels with badges are not capable of such debauchery.

The hypocrisy here is rampant.

Best wishes and good luck to Tony Stewart.

[fabiodriven]

Here we have a wonderful example of people not accepting that they are wrong. White on white crime? There so far is no evidence that a crime commited, according to the POLICE that you all trust the opinion of sooooo much. I could have predicted the weak comparison days ago. I even remember the suggestions of the police being paid off to clear him.... But surely these angels with badges are not capable of such debauchery.

The hypocrisy here is rampant.

Best wishes and good luck to Tony Stewart.


Damon, take it down a notch buddy. You're getting to the point where your word is the be all end all in your own eyes. Nobody is right or wrong yet and it won't matter if anyone is in the end. It's a tragedy any way you slice it.

[DohcBikes]

I don't get it. Glamy states "bust his balls, he's a prick", but im supposed to turn it down a notch? Sorry John, I don't respond to commands from another adult unless they are paying me, and I will state my opinion just like everybody else here. I can't help how people interpret what I say, I've already been over this with you. It is very unfortunate if anybody considers anybody's opinion the end all be all, because we ALL are flawed. Personally I have skipped several posts today simply because of who the author is, maybe others should try it.

[Billy Golightly]

So, I'm goign to interject here for a moment since this thread and the other two have degraded so much recently. I'm interjecting not to "moderate" and slap hands but to leave my point of view and perhaps something for some people to ponder.

I let things roll here more than a lot of people would like. Infact, theres a hand full of people that were long time members of the site going back 10+ years that pretty much hate my guts for it. But, until you reach a certain limit, if you want to conduct yourself in these "discussions" poorly and like a jack ass, thats your right, I'm giving you that much rope and flexibility to do so. Expect to be judged by your peers and other people for your actions though.

I think when the answer to a civilized discussion is met with the response of "but this other guy that makes no trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro sense in what he ever says, is doing it" says alot. Is that what you want your standard to be compared to as? If you want to be "that guy" then - fire away, but I think a lot of times we are given fair warning before we drop to that level by people that respect us and think of us as better than that.

Your choice - just an observation.

[DohcBikes]

So, I'm goign to interject here for a moment since this thread and the other two have degraded so much recently. I'm interjecting not to "moderate" and slap hands but to leave my point of view and perhaps something for some people to ponder.

I let things roll here more than a lot of people would like. Infact, theres a hand full of people that were long time members of the site going back 10+ years that pretty much hate my guts for it. But, until you reach a certain limit, if you want to conduct yourself in these "discussions" poorly and like a jack ass, thats your right, I'm giving you that much rope and flexibility to do so. Expect to be judged by your peers and other people for your actions though.

I think when the answer to a civilized discussion is met with the response of "but this other guy that makes no trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro sense in what he ever says, is doing it" says alot. Is that what you want your standard to be compared to as? If you want to be "that guy" then - fire away, but I think a lot of times we are given fair warning before we drop to that level by people that respect us and think of us as better than that.

Your choice - just an observation.HUA. Thanks for saying something that makes sense to me Billy. My solution is going to be to not post on anything that is not motorsports related, since I do not have the passion enough about anything else to be sufficiently articulate in my responses.

[El Camexican]

I don't get it. Glamy states.....

Glamy has been exempt from making sense in his posts since I have been on here. Still, when he does (like this time) I love his posts!

[tanks350x]

MANSLAUGHTER......at least ! He stayed outside made no effort to avoid him and had plenty of room inside .......NASCAR sucks !

Why do you say that NASCAR sucks? This incident had nothing to do with NASCAR.. This was a sprint car race. NASCAR has nothing to do with it

[tanks350x]

I'm a little late to the dance here on this thread. I too also watched the video a few times. There are other videos that clearly show Kevin grabbing the wing as he went by. Did that movement make tony turn to the right? After reading this whole thread, here is something that none of you took into consideration. By watching that video, you're kind of kidding your self to think that Tony's line of sight was the same as the video. Hmm, poorly lit track, black firesuit, right side wing blocking the right side of the car, No radio contact.. Only two people know the full story of what happened, and unfortunately, one isn't here anymore...

[6speedthumper]

There have been a few people that threw out the possibility that Tony may have tried to roost Kevin. Now, none of us know if this is/was the case, or not. But, keeping that possibility in mind, and it having been done in the past, if it was his intent to roost Kevin, then he must have seen him to make that decision. Not saying that is murder by any means. It's just something I thought of that might be worth sharing, and may prove requiring some sort of punishment, if that is what is found to have happened.

[tanks350x]

Here are a couple of facts about tony and most of the NASCAR community that you probably don't know about. I've heard that Tony actually gave a fan, all access to his own personal private jet to take care a family crisis. but the main stream media doesn't tell those stories do they? So I'd be willing to bet that tony paid for Kevin Wards ENTIRE funeral..

[atc007]

Zero doubt in my mind tony has done some favors over the years. How could you possibly not!?? Make no mistake. He is no Kyle Petty, Victory Junction Camp,,,Jeff Gordon,,Childrens hospital,,,BEFORE he ever had kids !! And on and on. To even TRY and defend poor wil tony as anything but what he is ,a Whiner. Is puzzling. The amount of money he has given the Wards at this point would probably be staggering. No doubt in my mind. Either way,, life goes on :) And since I posted again,,,told myself not too. Where could I find this video of Kevin GRABBING the wing of Tonys car? I honestly would love to see that angle.

[fabiodriven]

Tony lending someone a jet could be compared to me letting my buddy take a rip on my Buell. It's no sweat off his back.

[DohcBikes]

Wow guys. where is this going? You're arguing about things you don't know about. Money is money, no matter who's it is. You think rich people get rich by throwing money away? Tony earned his money. Every dollar he spends has exactly the same value as every dollar you spend.

Gonna start talking about Stewart paying the Wards to compensate for their dead son!!!???? Who the fk do you think you are??? Get a grip on reality, propaganda is bad. What a disgrace to Kevin for it to even be mentioned.

R.I.P. Kevin, God help you if your parents are accepting money from tony with the thought of repayment.

[El Camexican]

So I'd be willing to bet that tony paid for Kevin Wards ENTIRE funeral..

Even if he wanted to no sane lawyer would ever let him. It would be an admission of guilt.

[El Camexican]

Every dollar he spends has exactly the same value as every dollar you spend. I don't know about that. A jet ride for a fan likely cost him pennies on the dollar (tax deductions) Money works different when you make it by the millions.

[DohcBikes]

Earn it by the millions. I understand tax breaks on donations, it's not a profound concept. Again the larger point is skirted to attempt a derailment. I'll rescind my valuation of a dollar, it isn't important. Ain't no damn way tony is paying the wards a penny and anyone with one foot in reality knows it. The reason is because he doesn't owe them anything, and even if he did, it wouldn't be money. It's a disgusting suggestion.

[El Camexican]

Earn it by the millions. I understand tax breaks on donations, it's not a profound concept. Again the larger point is skirted to attempt a derailment. I'll rescind my valuation of a dollar, it isn't important. Ain't no damn way tony is paying the wards a penny and anyone with one foot in reality knows it. The reason is because he doesn't owe them anything, and even if he did, it wouldn't be money. It's a disgusting suggestion.

Still a long trail till this is over for Stewart one way or the other, but you're right, any financial offering to the family would be an insult. They may have an option to sue him at some point, even if it's just to soil his name and give the money to charity. That'll be up to them, lawyers and God.

[fabiodriven]

I will explain myself further, at the risk of indulging the ever present automatic devil's advocate who seems to have taken up residence here.

The point I was countering was an attempt by Tanks to put Tony on some sort of pedestal for "letting a desperate fan use his jet once". My response to that was "that could be compared to me letting a friend use my Buell". First of all, doing a good deed should not absolve him of any sort of wrong doing or allegations thereafter. Secondly, pick at my words as you will. I am not the only one who can see the devil's advocacy stance being the default of a certain someone regardless of the discussion. Taking the opposite stance as everyone else all the time and holding your ground, bravo. But here's the deal. Tony has a lot of money, yes. Tony has earned that money by being one of the best at what he does, yes. A jet ride is a lot of money, yes, but what is a lot of money? To me, I live week to week, a couple of hundred dollars is a lot of money. To Tony, a couple of hundred dollars is a pair of sunglasses or an evening out. I'm sure you can follow my train of thought here.

When it comes down to it, the fact of Tony letting someone use his jet is completely irrelevant, but I'm not the one who brought it up. I merely responded to it, and I stand by my response. If someone told me that for a tiny fraction of what I am worth I could change someone else's life in a big way, at least temporarily, I would do it. I like doing good things as they come back to me. I see them as opportunities. Let's say a jet ride cost 80k, a totally random number. That's a third of what my house cost. It would take me decades to repay that as an added expense on top of what I already pay for currently. To Tony, who is worth millions of dollars, this is simply just blip monetarily. It's a fraction of what he is worth, or what he has. If anything it's an opportunity for him to gain some positive light in the eyes of the public which in some form or another could potentially lead to him coming out even in the long run.

My apologies for not explaining each and every little meaning of every single syllable I typed the first time. I have to learn that the devil's advocate will jump on the tiniest of openings in order to counter a point, however feeble it may be. No, I'm not saying any of this has anything to do with Kevin Ward (who I'm glad someone finally scrolled back a few pages in order to finally acknowledge the name of the late, young racer) that all of a sudden you're acknowledging (certainly not after I asked you to).

So as I was saying, no sweat for Tony to let a fan use his jet one time.

[fabiodriven]

Haha, sorry for the rant boys. I woke up in the night for a pee and somehow I ended up writing that!

[atc007]

And not that it matters or I care. All I meant is if one thing. tony certainly seems to be stubborn. Most successful people are . Just the way it is. Legally,it is unheard of. But IN him,I am sure it was something important to him. No matter what ANYONE thinks. He IS guilt ridden. Rather he roosted Kevin,as I most certainly saw with my eyes. Or rather he never even saw him and his car ?? As a stubborn person going against everything his team is telling him. I bet there has been contact. But it's all speculation ,that I will live my life without worrying about.

[atc007]

Last I heard it went to a grand jury. Try as they could. They could not find video evidence to acquit him.Leave it up to the da??? Nahh,,it's America :) Throw it to the grand jury. That way NO ONE has to be a bad guy :)

[redsox]

it has been my experience that the Grand Jury finds more of the truth than the DA. Remember, the DA is elected. Political ambition distorts the truth, always. It is generally the responsibility of the DA to present the case to GJ, so, like everything in the justice system, there will be a distorted picture presented. The system does not work. Not even a little bit. Even if it did, Kevin will still be dead. Even though it dosen't, Tony still killed him.

[Mr. Clean]

atc007, grand jury decision has been confirmed and no charges will be filed.

In addition the District Attorney Michael Tantillo stated that Ward was under the influence of marijuana, "enough to impair his judgement" that evening.

[JesseA420]

"proseceutor says ward was under the influence of marijuana the night of the incident" LOLOLOLOLOL when you are high the last thing on your mind is start a fight LOLOLOL

according to our democracy, if you smoked some grass 2 weeks ago and it is still in your system, you are still obviously high as a kite. dont let the mass media sway you with their play on words. they cannot tell if he was high that night, or if he smoked a week ago. levels stay differently in everyones body differently, but since it was in his system this is the cause.

'merica.

just for the record, i love and am proud to be an american, but hate this fake democracy we are all at the mercy of. i can already see the headlines on cnn and msnbc "marijuana cause of steward/ward fatal crash"

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/sarah-palin-derp-derp-derp.gif?w=600&h=286

[atc007]

Whatdaya think about this Fabio ... Don't bother lol :)

[tripledog]

I wasn't sure which way the grand jury would rule, so I am not surprised at the outcome. As an aside, the clip of Sara Palin that JesseA420 posted is priceless. I think that is the only time I haven't heard her say something stupid.

[Maico]

So little Ward sits in the pits before the race, burns a few doobies and then gets into a high powered race car and puts not only himself but the other racers in jeopardy.
Looks like the only one that was doing stupid chit was Ward...and his actions proved so.

Good for Tony.

Good luck with the civil suit,Wards. Your kid was high on dope...he couldn't have possibly of done anything wrong.

Except get out of his car.

[JesseA420]

http://img.izismile.com//img/img3/20100908/640/funny_derp_pictures_640_14.jpg

U wat m8? @.@

[DohcBikes]

Marijuana affects different people differently, Just like alcohol. Been in plenty fights while under the influence. The stereotypical "stoner" doesn't race on a national level. That being said, many top performers in many professional sports use marijuana regularly.

Nobody should get high then race.

[redsox]

Ward never should have gotten out of the car. That being said, Stewart should not have run him over. Its all been said before, so i'll leave it at this. Don't make the mistake of thinking that the outcome of a court proceeding has anything to do with the truth.

[fabiodriven]

Marijuana will continue to be vilified for a while until it's accepted legally just about everywhere. Tell the people the truth instead of lumping a natural herb in with the likes of heroin or meth, and all the other things that kill you. Education is the key as it in any situation. What I find very amusing are how opinionated those are who know the least about the herb. I will speak from fact and experience, as this is an area that now very well. People picture pot smokers as stoners going into the 7-11 and buying hot dogs at midnight to go eat on their couches. If I use marijuana I work out, mow the grass, split fire wood, and build stuff. I also ride my trikes and my Buell and I ride better. Now I can't speak for everyone with that last statement, but if it's possible for me to ride and drive better it's certainly possible for other people as well. I don't care what anyone has to tell me because I know from my own personal experience. I also drive slower and more cautiously, unless the time comes to do a bakeshow. I don't NEED marijuana to do all of those things, but there was a time that I did. I was in a crippling depression and I didn't want to do anything, even things I enjoyed. I was just kind of going through the motions. If I wasn't doing things I enjoyed, how often do you think I was doing the things some people generally don't look forward to, like chores? Splitting wood, cutting grass, etc... I put a lot of stuff off and it took a lot of will to pick up the pieces of the mess I had made. The VA's answer is addictive and damaging pills. I'd like you to put aside your propaganda, all the things you've been "taught" about marijuana, and put the actual plant along side of pills. Look at the ingredients of each, the effects both have on the human body and mind, and look at the difference between two similar patients on the two different treatments. Have any of you seen this first hand? I have!

I have watch pharmaceuticals ruin life after life and I have watched marijuana improve my life and enhance life for all. Tell me some facts otherwise please if you have them!

There is no test to show that Kevin was smoking pot the day of, or the day before the race. THC is in your system for about thirty days and that's that. Unless there was other proof of him doing that, sounds like a jab at marijuana to me. He would be more likely to not fight if he were under the influence of marijuana from my experience. I personally doubt he would have gotten out of the car.

Your best insight in any situation is to go right to the source. If I want to know about cakes I'll ask the baker, not the guy eating it.

[El Camexican]

Canadians have known the benefits for years.
201982
http://deadspin.com/how-a-stoned-canadian-changed-sports-history-990167249

[tripledog]

I think use of marijuana has a tendency to shorten one's attention span, and

[DohcBikes]

I think use of marijuana has a tendency to shorten one's attention span, and
I do seriously think that what tripledog is trying to say is ahhh, uhhhmmm, uhhh... what was the topic again:wondering

[tripledog]

Kind of ironic that Stewart's nickname is "smoke".

[Mosh]

This....employee was an avid pot smoker. We can't say for sure he was stoned on the job at this time but he openly admitted to regular use of pot.

This is the amongst a miriad of other issues such as running sheet metal screws thru gas tanks and other general behavior that judgement was impaired.

He is now no longer employed along with being Injured from this mishap.
In case you want to know this guy had a screw jack so hard up the bottom of the engine during a motor mount replacement he actually made this car fall off a drive on rack sideways nearly smashing another employee as well as himself.
I am no saint and have done my fair share of extra curricular activities in my day but smoking dope has no business around 2 ton equipment or gasoline powered missiles running down a hi way or anywhere else you can effect someone else's safety but your own.
Stick that in your pipes and smoke it...

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m40/cosmicquads/IMG_20140820_080728_628.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/cosmicquads/media/IMG_20140820_080728_628.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m40/cosmicquads/IMG_20140820_080709_475.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/cosmicquads/media/IMG_20140820_080709_475.jpg.html)

[fabiodriven]

There are plenty of people who are just stupid, with or without Marijuana. I can assure you that Marijuana is not a hallucinogen and will not put you in an alternate reality. If the guy was stupid enough to do that, he's just that stupid. The idea that you're suggesting Marijuana made him that stupid and the fact that you honestly believe that is laughable. Now prescription pills on the other hand, I've personally watched turn some of the smartest people I've ever met into literal babbling mongoloids.

Once again someone heard from who doesn't know the first thing about this subject. You don't smoke pot and forget your chosen trade. That nitwit either didn't know his trade in the first place or was on something else.

[DohcBikes]

I agree with Mosh. This is coming from somebody that has smoked every single day for 18 years. I use zero prescriptions as they are the devil in disguise.

My mechanic skills suffer greatly when i'm high. My hands and fingers don't always do what I ask them to do, and there have been times that I've almost forgotten important things when working on my own engines. Without question all as a direct result of marijuana use. There are plenty of people that can't function properly after smoking, or their judgement is impaired.

This is why I keep my job and my recreation away from each other.

Something else I'd like to add... With the legality on the rise along with the THC content in these new strains, I'm seeing many more people affected by chronic use. The new "medical grade" or kind bud or whatever you wanna call it, is too powerful for this guy. The effects don't seem to dissipate nearly as fast either, and it just gets you more and more stoned as the day goes on. Being who he was, I bet Kevin had access to some seriously high potency.

[6speedthumper]

I feel that I can voice my opinion on this, based on my personal experiences as well. I've smoked pot. Hell, I still burn from time to time. Always in the late evening hours when I'm just unwinding, or when I need to fall asleep. In my experience, pot does not make you do totally retarded things. I don't speed when I've smoked, I don't get argumentive, confrontational, etc. Like Fabio said, I drive slower and more cautiously. There have been plenty of times when I have wrenched while stoned, and never have I ever screwed up ANYTHING. I also agree with Fabio on the prescription drug front. Has anyone even been watching the commercials on TV? I don't watch much tv at all, but, those drug commercials make it loud and clear that if you take drug X the side affects are 20x worse then the actual ailment they are said to combat.

Now, I know that pot affects different people differently. But really, that is not much different then the affects of alcohol on the same person(s). Lets face it, some people can have 2 or 3 beers and drive excellent. Then there are the folks that have 1 beer and can't start the damn car. Some people can drink a 6 pack and they are just as good natured and fun to be with as they are when they are sober. Then there are the people that drink the same amount, or less, and are total a-holes that want to start fights or do troublesome things. Of all the "stoner" friends I have, none of them have ever damaged property of any kind, none have driven wrecklessly, none have started or been involved in fights while high, all are just chill and relaxed about life.

I'll agree with Fabio once again that pot does help many people to do the day to day BS. It has also shown to help people to focus that much more intensely on the task at hand. But, there is the other side of the coin where a person doesn't want to do anything, which I have found that if taking a hit and immediately getting busy helps to combat couch potatoism (I prefer not to do a damn thing if I just take a hit or two and stay sitting down).

Who here has watched Worlds Wildest Police chases? Don't you just love when John Brunell says during a high speed pursuit that the suspect is "high on Marijuana". I call BULLSH!T on that. That felon is probably tripping on some much more potent, man made drugs, or has a very large reason for evading Police. The Marijuana alone is not "making him" run from law enforcement (okay maybe if he has a kilo of it in the backseat, lol)

It's just something that is going to continue to get a bad rep because there are those that are against ALL drugs that are not prescription, and those that do not know enough about it, or have not partaken. The world would probably be a better place if all these ego maniac world "leaders" and law makers would pace around the peace pipe.

[6speedthumper]

I agree with Mosh. This is coming from somebody that has smoked every single day for 18 years. I use zero prescriptions as they are the devil in disguise.

My mechanic skills suffer greatly when i'm high. My hands and fingers don't always do what I ask them to do, and there have been times that I've almost forgotten important things when working on my own engines. Without question all as a direct result of marijuana use. There are plenty of people that can't function properly after smoking, or their judgement is impaired.

This is why I keep my job and my recreation away from each other.

Something else I'd like to add... With the legality on the rise along with the THC content in these new strains, I'm seeing many more people affected by chronic use. The new "medical grade" or kind bud or whatever you wanna call it, is too powerful for this guy. The effects don't seem to dissipate nearly as fast either, and it just gets you more and more stoned as the day goes on. Being who he was, I bet Kevin had access to some seriously high potency.


That is true, he probably could get some REALLY good stuff! Stuff that I probably couldn't afford at all. Then there is the synthetic Marijuana that's really screwing with people. That along with the THC content like you said, is only further making pot worse then what it has actually been.

[Mosh]

There are plenty of people who are just stupid, with or without Marijuana. I can assure you that Marijuana is not a hallucinogen and will not put you in an alternate reality. If the guy was stupid enough to do that, he's just that stupid. The idea that you're suggesting Marijuana made him that stupid and the fact that you honestly believe that is laughable. Now prescription pills on the other hand, I've personally watched turn some of the smartest people I've ever met into literal babbling mongoloids.

Once again someone heard from who doesn't know the first thing about this subject. You don't smoke pot and forget your chosen trade. That nitwit either didn't know his trade in the first place or was on something else.
I also know that being under the influence of it makes a person narrow minded or one tracked in thinking so to speak.

The idea anybody is suggesting to operate anything motorized under the influence of ANYTHING drug wise, pills booze, pot or even road head is going to yeild disasterous consequences...Time and chance happens to everyone, and for the advocates, if someone stoned immaculate were to cause and accident and take out a loved one, you would think differently.

I am not going to argue my thoughts on the matter/ further than this. I have been in shops for over 20 years and worked with MANY dudes that go blow a joint at lunch and seen them run racks through gas tanks, or leave wheels loose, by 3pm. It affects people.
Do i have a problem with pot use..Not really. I don't care what a guy does on his time as long as it does not directly effect me or my family's safety or someone else I am responsible for.

[El Camexican]

What was this thread about again? Oh yea, a guy getting killed on a race track.

I knew a guy that died on a race track. He put a patch on the tube of the rear sick on his 7 second dragster to finish the weekend. Tube let go in the traps and his head was found a good ways off inside his helmet after the car climbed the post mounted guard rail. The NHRA quietly declined the $250,000 insurance payout to his family due to the dope in his system.

He didn't hurt anyone aside from himself and his family that day, but had he been in the same condition that made him think that patch would hold on a tire at 180mph in a dragster slick while he was forgetting to say tighten the lug nuts on his wife's car he could have harmed a bunch of innocents.

I'm all for legalizing pot for medical and recreational use, but I don't want school bus drivers, pilots and armed cops wandering about high. Hell I don't even want the drive thru guy at Rotten Ronnie's blasted, that guy f***s up my orders when he's straight!

Dope is going to have to fall under the same type of rules as booze. None on the job, none 8 hours before operating equipment, driving or racing, etc. I don't know how it can be done, but it has to be.

[6speedthumper]

I agree with ya there, El. Someone wants to smoke up on their time, that's cool. But, during business hours... Which is why when and if I toke I do it late in the evening, after I have gotten done all that I needed to, or wanted to. That, and I don't want my luck to run out if I were to do it during the day, everyday.

[fabiodriven]

Mosh you're friggin high.

Firstly you're corresponding with the most open minded person you will someday meet. Secondly, I've seen both sides of the coin, you've seen only one.

[Mosh]

Mosh you're friggin high.

Firstly you're corresponding with the most open minded person you will someday meet. Secondly, I've seen both sides of the coin, you've seen only one.

You are implying I am smoking pot...which I am not and don't appreciate.
Second you are calling me a liar which I am not.
Are you honestly trying to discredit facts which I have presented?

How is that being open minded on your behalf...

I get it...You like to smoke dope and ride your motorcycle and trikes...and chop wood with chainsaws...you like to post how you can overcome the odds of being chemically influenced and over come the odds of operating said machinery..
Great.. its a free country. Now go find a thread about insurance companies banning trikes...
Ask why would they do such a thing....


Glamy...your a fuggin moron...I think anyone with half an even stoned brain can see what a impotent poser you are...
Your opinions and posts are for trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro...now go ask your mommy for some more money so you can sit in her basement for another 45 years..

[6speedthumper]

I think Fabio's comment about you being high, Mosh, is out of sarcasm. And, that you are seeing things from the "sober side" of things.

Honestly, both sides have their reasons for their opinions, and facts, and most are justifiable. Which is why I liked some of what you had to say. However, my stance on the subject is that pot is not nearly as bad as many make it out to be. If it's just straight, all natural pot, I dig it. This new synthetic sh!t and anything laced with other drugs (real, man made, drugs) is not cool in my book.

Everyone reacts to it differently, just like alcohol, just like prescription drugs. I can tell you that Codine(?) for me is a major downer (took it for a wisdom tooth removal, not recreation) others it's an upper. Some people get paranoid on Marijuana, I get super chill and most times fall right to sleep.