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Hunter79
03-28-2015, 06:04 PM
I have been having troubles with a 3 wheeler for a while now and my dad and I have started working on it when we can. Here's the link to the original thread.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/171083-1981-Big-Red-Problem-Question
Yes, I thought it was a 1981 at first.

Anyway, we're working on it and have a question regarding a part and I can't find it in a manual anywhere, although I'm sure it's there. What is the part that: is a round electrical component, about 1 3/4" long by 1 1/2" in diameter that the spark plug wire runs from it to the spark plug. It's mounted with 2 bolts to the frame. Mounted on one of those bolts is a green wire. There's a blue wire connecting to a spade terminal on this component.

What is that part? AND How many ohms of resistance should there be for it? Thanks everyone, I appreciate it!

Hunter79
03-28-2015, 06:06 PM
I forgot to mention. Dad thinks it's a coil of some kind, but not sure.

Hunter79
03-28-2015, 06:11 PM
I also forgot to mention, dad has said he believes there's not spark. There has been some spark every time but now we're not seeing anything. What could that be?

#1honda
03-28-2015, 06:37 PM
The part is the coil. Here is a pic with the ohm readings you are looking for.213259

Devilsclaw
03-28-2015, 08:55 PM
#1Honda beat me to it. If the continuity checks out check continuity of the spark plug wire itself too. Sometimes wrangling it on and off a lot, the screw-on end gets intermittent.

Hunter79
03-29-2015, 09:18 AM
Well, we've checked it and it doesn't check out right. So, I'm looking at getting a new one. The question would be, where can I get one? I've seen them on amazon for around $15 but the reviews are only 50/50. I've also found a site that will sell them as OEM but they're out of stock right now and they're also between $75 & $100, where would you get one?

tripledog
03-29-2015, 09:38 AM
I can't speak to the quality of this coil, but the price is definitely reasonable...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ignition-Coil-Honda-ATC110-ATC185-ATC185S-ATC200-ATC200S-ATC200ES-ATC200M-ATC250-/151193518839?hash=item2333d602f7&vxp=mtr

wonderboy
03-29-2015, 02:08 PM
If you want a brand new original Honda part, they are still available from your Honda dealer or on-line parts ordering website.

1984 200ES
COIL ASSY., C.D.I. IGNITION
Part Number: 30500-VM3-405
Price on-line: $63.18 (at the website I use, prices vary)

Hunter79
03-29-2015, 03:45 PM
I know they make the original Honda part. I'm just don't want to spend that much if an aftermarket part works just as good. If I can spend $11 as opposed to $63 or more and the $11 part works just as good, I'd rather do that. If the aftermarket part doesn't work, then obviously I will buy the Honda part. Does anyone have any experience with the aftermarket part?

Howdy
03-29-2015, 03:51 PM
I am willing to bet the coil you have is good. The 84 200es is know for the CDI Box's going bad. Finding a good one is hard because they do go bad.
Howdy

tripledog
03-29-2015, 07:03 PM
Hunter79, there is a very good thread in Trikesylvania... just enter "1984 200ES Myth Busted" in the search block. Be sure to read the entire thread. It cost me under $20 to replace my cdi, and my 200ES runs great.

Hunter79
03-29-2015, 07:09 PM
Well, we're still in the process of checking the ignition coil all the way through. Dad thinks it doesn't have the correct resistance though. I know one thing for sure. I won't be putting ANY part on it again until I know that part's bad. I've done enough of that. It won't even start now. Whatever has been sort of broken, is now completely broken. The screwy thing is, dad checked for spark through the plug and he could get a small spark to jump about 1/2" but then when he moved it closer to the ground, it wouldn't jump at all. When it would jump across the 1/2", it wasn't a good spark, it was very intermittent. He put a couple drops of gas under the spark plug and tried to start it then, it didn't even try to fire. So, we're just trying to eliminate everything there is to eliminate methodically and this is where we started. Thanks everyone so far for the input. I really appreciate it!

Hunter79
03-29-2015, 07:10 PM
Hunter79, there is a very good thread in Trikesylvania... just enter "1984 200ES Myth Busted" in the search block. Be sure to read the entire thread. It cost me under $20 to replace my cdi, and my 200ES runs great.

Thanks tripledog. I'm headed there now.

Hunter79
03-29-2015, 07:14 PM
Hunter79, there is a very good thread in Trikesylvania... just enter "1984 200ES Myth Busted" in the search block. Be sure to read the entire thread. It cost me under $20 to replace my cdi, and my 200ES runs great.

Tripledog, is there any way you could show a link to that thread in this thread? I can't get the forum to find it for me.

Hunter79
03-29-2015, 07:30 PM
Was it this one?

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/144910-1984-200ES-CDI-Replacement-MythBusted/page2?highlight=200es+cdi

tripledog
03-29-2015, 08:02 PM
That would be it. If you read through all of the thread, it will show you where to buy the connectors you need. If you need further assistance, pm me your phone number and I will give you a call.

Hunter79
03-31-2015, 12:01 AM
That would be it. If you read through all of the thread, it will show you where to buy the connectors you need. If you need further assistance, pm me your phone number and I will give you a call.

Well, I just looked at this stuff tonight a LITTLE bit on my machine. I didn't take the CDI off because I had no idea how to do it and was a little apprehensive to do so. I did take the cover off but didn't actually take anything out after that. How do I take the CDI out? I'd like to do that and then, MAYBE, I'd understand it a little bit better.

tripledog
03-31-2015, 05:26 AM
If you are referring to the round cover at the top of the cylinder that says "CDI" on it, that is not where cdi is actually located...

Hunter79
03-31-2015, 07:35 AM
If you are referring to the round cover at the top of the cylinder that says "CDI" on it, that is not where cdi is actually located...

Thanks Tripledog. After I went back to bed last night, I realized that I had taken the cover off of that to look at the spark advancer. I did that because a guy in my original thread told me to do that. I actually forgot what I did that for. Anyway, where is the CDI? I was thinking about taking it off today after work and lightly hitting it as suggested by KB in the thread you told me about and then putting it back on to see if it would start. I really want to get this running and have been told so many things that could be wrong with this wheeler that if I fixed them all, I'd have a new three wheeler. I just wish I knew more about this stuff. So, where is the CDI and how do I take it off?

Beau
04-01-2015, 09:09 AM
The links in the sticky on it should still be good,trailprowww.dratv.comhas both the plug and the CDI unit.

Alsotrailprohttp://www.vintageconnections.com/trailprohas them as well, he sells them as a pair, the HP6L is the part you need. Click on Order on the left side and its about halfway down the page. This website has a lot of the OEM style connectors that you find on old ATV, ATC, and motorcycles.trailpro

The link in the sticky also takes you to the dratv page with the wiring diagram, it's pretty easy to swap over to the new style connector.

tripledog
04-01-2015, 05:19 PM
If you buy the tool to release the barbs on the terminal connectors, you don't even need to cut the wires. The existing terminal connections should slide right into the new connector halves.

Hunter79
04-01-2015, 08:00 PM
If you buy the tool to release the barbs on the terminal connectors, you don't even need to cut the wires. The existing terminal connections should slide right into the new connector halves.

What tool are you referring to? Again, I'm very new at this and have no idea what you're talking about. I'm going to google it and if I find it, I'll post that I did.

Steve-Hoog
04-02-2015, 08:54 AM
I bought one of the $15; orange main body and coil wire. I put it on a running ATC and it ran but after 1 minute or so it would stop running like it ran out of gas; after sitting a minute it would start again. % 1983 110

I put the original coil back on and problem resolved.

Aftermarket Orange one:

Primary resistance: .4
Secondary: 5.51

http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server1500/stjhi/products/113/images/268/New_High_performance_coil_shopatvpartsonline.com__ 02050.1408626999.900.900.jpg?c=2

Stock Coil:

Primary: .5
Secondary: Would not give a reading, crazy right?

kb0nly
04-05-2015, 12:40 AM
If it ran for a bit then quit and the ran again the coil was likely getting hot. I had that problem with an aftermarket one i got off ebay as well. The 200ES rarely if ever suffers from a bad ignition coil. On all the ones i have worked on nine times out of ten the ignition coil was fine but needed a new plug wire. The plug wire can be removed from the coil, just unscrew it, its held into the coil by a screw coming out of the coil and the wire just screws onto it. Think of a wood screw with the point coming out, the wire just gets pushed in and threaded onto it. The plug wire ends are basically the same also, though someone may have replaced it at one point with a crimp or solder on job.

If the spark plug boot is in good shape i just go to the local auto parts store grab a length of plug wire and replace the wire and tada working coil again.

The CDI is generally the problem on the 200ES. All the links in the thread i posted on that as mentioned will take you to the parts you need. The contacts in the stock round connector can be removed without a special tool but it takes patience, i use a long dental pick and release the catch on each contact and pull them out. Not that hard once you have done a few and know how this style of connectors works. But its not that hard to just cut off the original plug and install new contacts and the new style connector.

The CDI's from Dr ATV have been working great. I have just over a year and a half of constant use on the one on my 200ES now, and the others i have fixed are still running strong as well. The CDI is like an amplifier, it takes the voltage generated by the stators ignition coil and pumps that up to a higher voltage, about 100v, and the ignition coil multiplies that again to over 1000 volts. The CDI has a few components in it that just age and fail, mainly a couple electrolytic capacitors, so even buying a New Old Stock will have the same problem from sitting with age on the shelf. Sadly you can't repair the CDI either because they potted it into the little plastic box and its nearly impossible to get them out and clean off the potting to get to the components. I did a teardown on one, there was some pictures posted up on here on one of my threads. I eventually even removed the potting, that took a couple evenings picking at it with various tools and i only got enough removed to know it wasn't worth trying to continue to fix it sadly.

I see you asked where the CDI is, it's the little black box right above the motor, tucked under the fuel tank and right next to the ignition coil, hard to miss as it has that round plug with all the wires in it.

Another thing i will mention, since you don't have spark on this 200ES... Go into the headlight and disconnect your kill switch on the left handlebar, and disconnect the ignition switch as well. The ignition switch only grounds the kill wire in the off position as far as the ignition is concerned, it also switches on the 12v power to the lights, but if your kill switch or ignition switch have worn out, rusted up, etc inside they could be grounding the ignition kill wire even when in the run and on position. I had that problem on my handlebar kill switch, ended up taking that whole thing apart and cleaning the contacts and fixing it as well. That just rules out that you don't have a wiring problem instead of a CDI/Coil problem.

You can also check the voltage output of the ignition stator coil when cranking over the engine, should have 10-30v depending on engine speed, thats AC voltage from the stator coil so you need a voltmeter set to AC to check that or a test light to see if it lights when you spin the motor over.

Its safe to say though that most times when a 200ES won't start its the CDI, its usually the first thing i replace on one that won't run.

Hunter79
04-06-2015, 11:44 AM
Thanks KB. I have one ordered that should be here Thursday at the latest. I can't wait for it to get here. Mushroom season is almost here and I've got a LOT of walking to do if this isn't running by then!!

Hunter79
04-09-2015, 06:52 PM
I put the new CDI on last night and it's running now! Hopefully it will continue to do so but I'm staying pretty close to the house until I know for sure! Thanks for all of the help everyone!! I sure appreciate it!!

Hunter79
04-12-2015, 05:21 AM
Well, that didn't last long. This machine ran like a top and now it won't run. Here's what happened. I put the new CDI on it and it started right up. It did run a little rough but the more I ran it the better it ran. I rode it down to the river and shut it off while just walking around, got on it and it fired right up. I probably ran a tank and a half of gas through it and this was new gas bought in a new can. So the gas was fine. It was even premium gas with no ethanol. Yesterday morning, I fired it up and drove it into my truck just to make sure it would fit, it did. Then, I parked it in the garage and mowed the lawn. When I got done mowing, I tried to start it up to take my daughter for a ride. Guess what, now it won't start. What the heck! It would start and run for about 2 seconds and then it would die. If I hit the throttle, most times it would immediately die. I did get it to run a couple seconds longer with the throttle open but that was it. I took the throttle cable off of the carb to make sure it wasn't restricted, it wasn't. Now, it won't start at all. I mean at all. This machine is just about to get pushed off into the lake and left there to rust into a pile! I'm so frustrated right now that I couldn't sleep last night! Does anyone have any idea what might be wrong now?

kb0nly
04-12-2015, 03:22 PM
Considering that running ability of it now seems to be throttle dependent rather then electrical you probably have a fuel system problem.

Close the petcock, fuel shutoff valve on bottom of tank, pull the fuel line off the carb and put it in an old empty pop bottle, turn on the valve, is fuel flowing out? If no, take the gas cap off the tank, sometimes the pressure vent on them quits working and you create a vacuum in the tank and no fuel will flow, the switch on the gas cap actuates a rubber sealed arm in the cap to close off the vent. That piece inside the cap sometimes gets all rusted to heck and don't want to work anymore. I have replaced a couple of these, they are available new, Dr ATV has them, they show up on eBay all the time, etc.

Ok, so if you don't have any fuel flow even with the gas cap removed the next step would be to drain the tank or take it off and set it on its right side so the fuel level is below the petcock, then remove the petcock and, it has a screen that sits over the tube up in the tank, drain the tank, remove the petcock and take a small needle nose pliers or forceps if that filter screen doesnt come out, clean everything, reassemble. Here is a link to one on eBay as an example, the white part of the petcock that goes up in the tank is a screen filter.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-Tank-Petcock-Honda-ATC200-ATC200E-ATC200ES-/180742730330?hash=item2a151b325a&vxp=mtr

I also put an inline fuel filter between the petcock and the carb in the fuel line as extra protection, just one of those filters like you see on lawnmowers and such, helps keep crud out of the carb.

Ok, so back to troubleshooting, if you have fuel flow all the way to the carb and coming out of the line that goes on the carb, then likely you have a carb problem and its time for a teardown. Chances are the tank and a half of gas you put through it stirred up some gunk or some crud that settled in the fuel bowl of the carb from sitting so long broke free and got sucked up into the idle circuit. You can get rebuild kits for these carbs, thats no problem. But i will tell you this, i rebuilt the carb on my 200ES three friggin times and never could get it running perfectly. I ended up going with a brand new aftermarket carb and swapping the jets from my original carb, the aftermarket carbs aren't always jetted right. After that i have been running for years no problems whatsoever. But thats your choice, lengthy rebuild or quick bolt and swap. Whichever you do make sure you go through and clean the fuel system and add a filter for safety to protect the rebuilt or new carb.

Oh an check your air filter!! If you haven't done anything with that it could be a mess. I can't count how many mouse nests i pulled out of ATC air boxes. The little buggers make themselves at home in there. Remove the filter, clean everything out, if the filter is still usable wash and re-oil it. If not the filters are also available to fit the stock filter holder, its a foam filter sock that goes over the frame, wash and oil type.

Lets see what else.... Oh check the intake, the rubber mount between the carburetor and the head, sometimes they dry up and crack with age, then you have an air leak and she runs lean, if it really cracks bad you might not even get her to fire up.

Sounds like you have consistent spark now at least.

Hunter79
04-13-2015, 07:20 AM
Thanks KB. I'm going to get on this stuff asap. I have checked the fuel flow to the carb, and it's good. I ran about a cup of fuel through the line after pulling the line off of the carb. I have an in line filter too already. When I hook the line back up to the carb, (I have a see through filter) the filter isn't filling with gas. I just found this all out yesterday. So, I think/thought I had a plugged carb. Well, I pulled the plug and put a little gas under it and then put the plug back in figuring when I hit the starter, it would fire right up. It didn't. That has me scratching my head some. Time will tell I guess!

kb0nly
04-14-2015, 04:53 AM
You will be a troubleshooting wizard in no time.. Lol

One things for sure on these old beasts when they run they run well. When they don't they can be a right bit stubborn to get going again!