86 250es Wheel and Wrench

[bfediuk]

Finally tried out my new (to me) big red. Took the kids out on their little quads and dad (me) and Grandpa putted around on the trike.

3 apparent problems exist

1 - It leaks a bit of gas when running. I was already planning to rebuild the carb (parts are en route) and replace fuel lines. That should take care of that.

2 - Front brakes - well.... I knew these didn't work since there is no right lever. Cable is good. Lever and pads are in the mail so as long as all of the parts are inside the drum, that will be an easy fix (actually ordered both levers as the rear one is bent a bit)

3 - Clutch slippage? - seems if I upshift early and hit the throttle, the clutch will slip. MY QUESTION TO THIS FORUM - How do you know which clutch slips? Is it the centrifugal clutch that should be changed or the change clutch? I suppose I should make sure the change clutch is adjusted properly (will this make a difference on slippage)?? Which clutch usually wears out? The centrifugal clutch (with the little fingers)?

Thanks

Here are a couple of pics from last weekend. First one is of all the machines loaded up (Grandpa's Grizzly, my Big Red, my kid's AC150, AC90, and Suzuki 50). Second pic is Grandpa with my littlest guy. Grandpa was excited to try out the trike (It's been 30 years since he's had one)
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[bfediuk]

Time to tackle the front brake. Bought a set of new levers off of ebay. My back lever was bent and the front was broken off.
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The new rear is slightly different. You can't tell once the rubber boot is on, but the park brake doesn't hold as well as before.... the pivot point for the park lever is in a different spot!!
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[bfediuk]

While I had the lever and front brake off, I bled oil down the cable and moved it around. It wasn't that bad anyway, but now.... It's better than new I think!!

This is the first time I've taken the front wheel off. Simple job. All of the parts were relatively clean.
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And WTH!! The shoes have 0 wear material on them.... almost like it fell off or was removed. It doesn't look worn off.
218591

After all of that was installed, brake works great!! Simple job. But you can definitely see how you'd get mud and water in there and they will wear out pretty quick. For what I use the trike for (putting around with the kids), the brake should last a long while.

[bfediuk]

And now the carb. Relatively simply job as well. Easy to get the carb off, although there are more tubes on it than most carbs.
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/IMG_5628_zpsplpgf0o6.jpg

Here it is all broken down. Wasn't too dirty but all of the jets had some blockage. The rubber seals were totally dried out too.
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/IMG_5636_zpsqdbtn16k.jpg

Here are the parts from the Shindy kit I bought from Royal Distributing.
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/IMG_5635_zpsonzwynts.jpg

And now the machine runs awesome!! good idle, lots of power. No hesitations.

[Flyingw]

My guess would be that those are the original shoes. Ive seen that many times. The adhesive they use to bond the shoe to the bracket has a service life and couple that with constant exposure to water and or mud accelerates that service life. You are right though, putt putt around with the kids and some goofing around, those brakes will last a while.

[ianj454]

Same thing happened to the pads on the front of my 86. It used to jam the front wheel from time to time...

[bfediuk]

Wow. The guy I bought it from said that the previous owner had told him a story like that.... the front wheel had jammed. Oh wel, all fixed.

[bfediuk]

Took the kids out on their quads and got to try the big red out. Machine runs awesome now with the carb done, and it's nice having a front brake!!
This is my little girl riding with me after getting tired of her machine.
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/DSCN4170_zpsv6v8xfli.jpg

[bfediuk]

The other problem I found is that the front tire has a bunch of cracking, right up the middle of the tread. It's only a matter of time before it falls apart. It also has a couple of plugs in it.

Decided to replace it (the day I was out riding in the picture above). Called up the local dealer and they had 2, Cheng Shin tires in stock ($95CAD). Also priced out a mud lite (I like the way they look), but they were significantly more ($160). Just decided to try out the Cheng Shin.

Wow, the bead on this old tire was stubborn. Was a job for the powerstroke
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/IMG_5742_zpso8t7uo4t.jpg

Then mounted up the new tire. What?? It looks way smaller than the old original, even with the original unmounted.... and the original just flat out looks better too. Oh well, we'll try this one out for a while. Was tough to get the tire to fully seat too. Had to use almost 15 psi even though the tire says max of 10 psi for bead seating (That's soo low for mounting)
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/IMG_5745_zpsyj5wsqsb.jpg

[Howdy]

Nice machine!!! On your clutch: If you put it in gear and the motor rev's up and then engages then your centrifugal clutch is wore. If you put it in gear and the machine acts like it wants to go, but the motor rev's faster than the machine moves then it's your "manual / secondary clutch".

One other thing: If you turn the motor off and you hear a whirling noise followed by a clunk ( mild normally, some time fairly loud ), or if you try kick starting it and the kicker don't want to engage all the time. Then you will want to inspect / replace the one-way clutch behind the centrifugal clutch. Failer can lead to electric starter and gear damage.
Howdy

[bfediuk]

Thanks Howdy!!

Engagement from start up seems perfect. Starting seems to work the way it should. I'm thinking it is the change clutch (or secondary). After a couple more rides I should have a better idea. Because I don't push the machine very hard, it doesn't show up all the time either.

[bfediuk]

Alright. Me and my older boy went out for a ride. I was dying to try out the trike with the new front tire.
Despite how ugly that tire looks on there (in my opinion), it works.... awesome. That tire and a new front brake make the trike handle really well. We rode a little of mud, some dirt, and a bunch of gravel. Handled well on everything.
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/IMG_5782_zps08tfxbb8.jpg

[bfediuk]

So I decided I don't like the way the front tire looks. It does work well, as do the bear claws. I've also got a set of rear Spider Tracs I could use.

However, I like the idea of a little bigger tire. So I ordered up some ITP rims (12x7" 2+5 offset). Just got them today. Tires should be here tomorrow

http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/IMG_0163_zps2ie6gkex.jpg

[coolpool]

That's a nice looking red you got. If it were mine I would only use Honda brake levers to keep it as close to original as possible. You could have put a tube in the front tire and been able to keep the original rubber and not worry about a failure. Glad things are coming together nicely. Are your Spider Tracs the older Dick Cepek brand? How's things in Fort McMoney? Pretty depressed down here :-(

[86125m]

if you want don't want that cheng shin I would be more than willing to take it off your hands.

[bfediuk]

Yo coolpool, thanks. Ya I knew I could use a tube, in fact, I kept the original tire. I just didn't realize the Cheng Shin would have such a different profile from the original.

I will be replacing the levers with Honda ones, eventually.

And my other tires, which I'm likely going to keep, are the dick cepek spider traks (shown below). Also have a second front Cheng Shin. So 86125M, I have 2 of them I won't likely use, one of which is brand new, bought for $100. I'm trying to get rid of them. If you're near me, and you want to offer a bit of cash for one, PM me.

http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/IMG_6573_zps5tfyxgfx.jpg

[bfediuk]

New tires showed up today. Will get them mounted this weekend.

http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/IMG_6574_zpsxqmjx9rm.jpg

[86125m]

oh sorry I did not realize you were in Canada so shipping charges to Louisiana would probably be ridicules.

[coolpool]

Holy moly do those tires have meat on them! How much do they weigh each? And your putting one on the front? From experience to a lesser degree the front will track fine going straight, but as soon as you turn in the slippery stuff I can see a skating action on the side lug. My $.02. It'll look like a beast for sure. Love those Spider Tracs.

[bfediuk]

Ya they sure are meaty. This weekend I plan to tackle the comparison.

I'll compare the weight and sizes of the following wheel/tire combos:
1 - I'll weigh the Anclas, weigh the ITP wheels (and get total wheel/tire combo)
2 - The stock wheels with the Bear claws
3 - The stock wheels with the Cheng Shin front
4 - The stock wheels with the Spider Trac
5 - My foreman wheels (12x7.5) with 26" mud bugs

I'll also measure all of the wheel/tire widths and how they measure up on the machine (Machine total width and diff clearance).

I'll post up what I find.

I also wanted to add some pictures of a big red 250 with the 26" anclas as I was unable to find any pictures on the interweb of one with them. This will not be a problem for anyone anymore!!

[bfediuk]

Did a bunch of tire/wheel switching and measuring today. Will post the comparison stuff later. For now, here's a look at the trike with it's new wheels and tires. I actually meant to mount the front backwards, brain fart!!
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/IMG_6670_zpskdsuuvui.jpg

[bfediuk]

Well, got the new CST Anclas mounted up.

And here is the line up of tires I thought I'd do some comparisons on. From left to right, 26x12-12 mud bugs on 12x7.5 Honda rims, 25x12.5-9 Bear Claws on Honda 9x9 rims, 25x12-9 CST on Honda 9x9 rims, 26x12-12 CST Ancla on ITP 12x7, and 25x13.5-9 on Honda 9x9 rims.
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/IMG_6645_zpsnpvwfkyr.jpg

Here are the measurements I took.
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/IMG_6694_zpscada01t9.jpg

The tires are listed on the left with the rims just below the tires (with offset listed as well).. Wt is the weight in lbs. W is the full tire width, mounted on it's listed rim, with 3psi (all measurements were taken with 3psi even though the 26s would usually be run with a little more and the others maybe a little less). H is the full unloaded height of the tire. The "inner edge to flange" is the distance from the inside of the tire to the mounting flange (this is used for confirming offset). Clearance was taken from the ground to the lowest point of the swingarm on the passenger side (just easy to measure to there). And trike width is the total width from outside edge of tire to outside edge of tire (In all cases this was the maximum width of the machine.... but barely)

[bfediuk]

Some observations of the tires

All of the tires measure narrower and shorter than their size indicates.
The Cheng Shin is much smaller than the others and much rounder.... and much softer, like a traditional trike tire I suppose.
All of the rims were similar except the foreman rim. I really liked the look of the mud bugs on these rims, with this offset. I put the tires even with the fender lips... so a little narrower.

The 2 26" tires are very similar in size. The mud bug is slightly rounder, making it slightly taller... and of course, it's more aggressive. Both are heavy, but that is what a 6 ply tire will do! You can see my foreman rims have less offset, pulling the tire in.
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/IMG_6648_zps4ebjxq0b.jpg

The 2 25" favorites from the 80s, the bear claw and spider trac. Both are quite square, with the spider trac being slightly rounder and softer (but by no means soft) Of course the Cepek is about an inch wider. There is a place in my heart for both of these, having had them on quads when I was a kid.
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/IMG_6651_zpsd7x6jkvu.jpg

[bfediuk]

I surprisingly liked the look of the foreman rims with the mud bugs. Factory Honda wheel, silver, with Honda center caps, and looks like the right width. I didn't try the front wheel on yet, but was thinking of taking one of my fronts off and mounting the wheel backwards. I believe the offset is really close that way. And it's a 26x10-12, so a little narrower, and a little rounder than the Ancla I just put on.
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/IMG_6656_zpsaye5wbul.jpg
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/IMG_6658_zpsspsxkitj.jpg
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/IMG_6659_zpso1xdnkcr.jpg

[bfediuk]

BUT, the new Anclas do look pretty good too.

Will take them for a ride next weekend with the boys.
Here's one more of the trike with the tires...
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/IMG_6690_zpsiizjg9vj.jpg

And one with my other ride
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/IMG_6693_zps6jkvmece.jpg

Spent the rest of the afternoon making 4 quads and a trike fit in a small place
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bfediuk/1986%20Honda%20250es/IMG_6695_zpsfbjoiggm.jpg

[cirose]

care to share the prices on the stuff you bought? i buy from royal distributing every now and then... i need a new front brake lever for my 86 and cables, how about that cheng shin knobby tire? there around 100 bucks aren't they

[bradkeskey]

Big red looks great. Just bought a 85 250 ES. Love it.

[bfediuk]

care to share the prices on the stuff you bought? i buy from royal distributing every now and then... i need a new front brake lever for my 86 and cables, how about that cheng shin knobby tire? there around 100 bucks aren't they

As far as I'm concerned, they were dirt cheap. I don't have the receipt in front of me, but I seem to remember:
each rim $45.
each tire $66
Total = $45x3 + $66x3 = $333CAN !!

[bfediuk]

Oh, and I buy all of my small parts (carb kits, brake pads, bearings, levers) through Canadasmotorcycle if I can. Then I try Royal. I usually check Ebay along side those other two, but if the Canadian guys have them, they are usually a great price anyway, and if it's close.... I still like to support the Canadian shops.