1979 ATC 110 with helm and son mods

[1979atc]

OK I have a 1979atc 110 with helm and son mods I was adjusting the valves to .003 and I rolled it over by hand and it lost compression thinking I bent the exhaust valve and I found out that its supposed to be set at.004 thanks to Joseph farrow I haven't adjusted it yet but think the valve is bent so if anyone has parts to fix this I'm very interested please let me know and PS this motor is not stock top end is different compared to a regular 110 I'm pretty sure it has over sized valves and a bigger cam so don't tell me to go get a stock valve to put in itcause it won't work I appreciate all the help and effort please let me know ASAP thanks!

[HairyJR]

Welcome to the board. Helm & Son were one of the premier hop up parts supplier back in the day. Missing the valve adjustment by only .001" will not cause the valve to hit piston ans bend. Have you done a compression check? or leak down test? LOL on the fix.

"HJ" 217513 :beer

[1979atc]

No I have not and i have another 110 by the one I'm working on its completely stock and it feels like it has 0 compression compared to the stock one I hope I can find parts also

[HairyJR]

You're making the statement you have Helm & Son mods does that mean stroker crank, oversize piston and their aluminum cylinder, possible race cam and maybe oversize larger valves. Need to remove head and measure valves to get correct replacements. A couple people come to mind for possible parts, PM "jwheeler" and or "shortline10". I'm surprised no comments by other members. Add pic's if you can.

"HJ" 217537 :beer

[lardog]

Waiting for some pics lol:naughty:

[shortline10]

I tried to help but when he keeps asking me the same question 4 times in 4 different PMs I just loose patients . I told him to start a thread and MAYBE someone will help him .




You're making the statement you have Helm & Son mods does that mean stroker crank, oversize piston and their aluminum cylinder, possible race cam and maybe oversize larger valves. Need to remove head and measure valves to get correct replacements. A couple people come to mind for possible parts, PM "jwheeler" and or "shortline10". I'm surprised no comments by other members. Add pic's if you can.

"HJ" 217537 :beer

[Joseph Farrow]

He has the bike that was on Ebay a while back. A 79 110 with 84-85 tank and fenders if you remember it. Nothing know about the motor except it has a H&S cylinder.

[1979atc]

Exactly thanks Joe I have no idea about the thing and ya it needs to come apart but I don't wanna be the trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro to tear it apart with no parts what's so ever and the are pics on my profile of the thing and ya there was pics of it on eBay also idk you guys know about it so it would only help to know facts about the thing Joe is the one that really helped me out I get short line mike tried help in but ya I get it I asked about tips about what type of valves may be in it and other facts

[HairyJR]

Close up pic’s would help, looking at your profile pic shows me a really nice ’84 Honda 110, nothing else. We all must assume you ask the ebay seller for info with no knowledge. Any body could order an install a Helm & Son stroker crank, aluminum cylinder and cam with just minor mods. Because a repair shop needs special tools to install oversize valves with the added expense wasn’t commonly done. Hell I didn’t have them on the 205cc motor Lee built for me and I’m telling you it needed special extra machine work to install. As you and I have had PM contact too and determined the valve is bent, time to disassemble as it can’t be ridden in it’s present condition. Then correct parts can be purchased…..

"HJ" 217546 :beer

[1979atc]

OK yes I get it I am just trying to figure out a way to do this the correct way not trying to make anyone mad and I can have the work get done trust me I'm only 15 and would want to get parts and everything and is it true that u can use hondabond and yamabond for base gasket and the head is lapped to the head? I just need to find out this before I can year it apart my dad doesn't wanna test it apart and can't put it back together thanks

[barnett468]

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15 years old, ok it's great that you want to learn about engines.

ok, to see if a valve is bent, you can simply put the piston on top dead center on the compression stroke . . one easy way for someone whom is just learning to do this is to remove the spark plug then put their finger on the plug hole and kick it over until air comes out . . then simply put a straightened coat hanger in the cylinder pointing downward and turn it over very SLOWLY until the piston/coat hanger comes up and then feels like it is just starting to go down . . You can also remove the ignition timing inspection screw and once you feel air come out the plug hole you can watch the flywheel rotate thru the hole until the letter T or F appears . . The T is top dead center . . The F is fire.

Then make sure both rocker arms are slightly loose.

Remove the carb and spray some carb cleaner in the port until you can see it, then simply let it sit for around 2 minutes . . If the level is the same, it is fine . . If it had a bent valve, the fluid will all be gone . . It possible that it has a tiny leak but it would still start and run with one.

If there is no leak then remove the exhaust pipe and do the same thing.

Use a paper towel to sop up any fluid left in the ports.
.

[1979atc]

Yes thanks you I did that earlier in the exhaust port tipped it on its bumper I'm sure that it iss bent but I do aprreciate the help thanks

[barnett468]

OK yes I get it I am just trying to figure out a way to do this the correct way not trying to make anyone mad and I can have the work get done trust me I'm only 15 and would want to get parts and everything and is it true that u can use hondabond and yamabond for base gasket and the head is lapped to the head? I just need to find out this before I can year it apart my dad doesn't wanna test it apart and can't put it back together thanks

its obvious that no one here knows what size valves are in it or what head gasket they used or what piston they used etc, therefore, if you want further help, you need to take it apart and get the measurements that people ask for.

its entirely possible that some of the parts they used were custom made and may need to be custom made again if a close replacement can not be found . . unfortunately, that is sometimes the case with custom built engines etc.

no you can not use either of those for a head gasket and i wouldn't use them for a base gasket . . you can make your own base gasket if needed and cometic or someone else can make you a head gasket if needed.

je can make you a piston and rings if needed etc.
.

[1979atc]

OK I did hear that u could cut a stock one bigger for the cylinder on the base and the head is lapped I heard and that a cb 550 or 750 would work also idk but I do aprreciate all your help

[barnett468]

He has the bike that was on Ebay a while back. A 79 110 with 84-85 tank and fenders if you remember it. Nothing know about the motor except it has a H&S cylinder.

Do you mean this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-HONDA-ATC-/371094297917?pt=ATVs&forcerrptr=true&hash=item5666f19d3d&item=371094297917&nma=true&si=34145%252F%252FQFflfMNtjJLVixdV7ing%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

"VERY RARE.... This is a 1979 ATC 110 with 1985 plastic and gas tank the motor is a 1979, The motor has an after market cylinder 190cc made by Helm and Son out of Arizona, has a stage 2 cam and a stroker crank also made by Helm and Son and it also has an over sized carb, It has the trunk and above the trunk the seat cover is torn. The seat foam is perfect. IT has and K and N air filter, Also it has a super trapp exhaust."

[barnett468]

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Sorry that I couldn't find any photos but will a video of it running do?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBNxlPy_iFI

[1979atc]

Yes this is mine I was told that this is what it was the valve springs looked different to me when I had the caps off and

[1979atc]

And ya this is my video I uploaded on youtube and ya

[barnett468]

.

Yes this is mine I was told that this is what it was the valve springs looked different to me when I had the caps off and

The valve springs looked different than what? . . There are no photos of the valve springs to compare yours too unless there were some in the orig add which have been deleted by ebay..

[1979atc]

When I the caps off the springs and the the washer keeper I would say what it is lol looked different from my other 110

[barnett468]

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When I the caps off the springs and the the washer keeper I would say what it is lol looked different from my other 110

ok, this is because the springs in the helm bike are a higher spring pressure and the retainers are better . . if the retainers look like dull aluminum they are either aluminum or titanium . . if they are dark, they are likely anodized chromoly or tool steel.

[barnett468]

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have you ever ridden this thing? . . it should lift the front wheel and spit you off the back.

[1979atc]

O yesss I have rode it and I drag raced a 185s and stomped it when my dads friend had I after my dad had it he said he lined it up with a 200x and the 110 won and ya it will lift the front wheel off the ground in every gear lol and I'm pretty sure I would have to look again the retainer were dark?? I think lol I would have to look

[barnett468]

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ok . . xlnt lol.

just when did it loose compression?

[1979atc]

I adjusted the valves to .003 and I rolled it over by hand and I think it wsd on tdc I had the flywheel on t and the sprocket the o was on the opposite side and that's when I lost compression

[barnett468]

I adjusted the valves to .003 and I rolled it over by hand and I think it wsd on tdc I had the flywheel on t and the sprocket the o was on the opposite side and that's when I lost compression

ok, why did you adjust the valves?

what were they before you adjusted them?

where did you get the .003" spec from?

did it have the spark plug in it when you turned it over?

if the plug was out, did you feel any resistance like the valve hitting the piston when you turned it over?

[barnett468]

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I would also set the valve adjustment to at least .008 inches on the intake and .010 on the exhaust once it runs again.

[1979atc]

The exhaust was really loose didn't touch intake it was at 0.004 and the exhaust u could almost put a pencil in between it

[barnett468]

The exhaust was really loose didn't touch intake it was at 0.004 and the exhaust u could almost put a pencil in between it

ok well your intake was still too tight, so when you tightened the exhaust valve, the valves may have overlapped and bent, but this is unlikely

[1979atc]

Ya probably lol never have heard of that and thanks for your help

[barnett468]

Ya probably lol never have heard of that and thanks for your help

no prob . . yeah the intake and exhaust valves are actually both open at the same time during part of their cycle, and on a small hemi head with opposing valves like your bike has, they come pretty close together if the cam is big.

[HairyJR]

been almost a month, I and several other members have given helpful advice, any up date. :naughty:

"HJ" 218833 :beer

[1979atc]

Sorry guys I haven't been on this thread I found out that it is the the valve that is bent exhaust valve. And what I'm trying to find out that if it has a bigger aftermarket head on it or not have not been able to tear it apart wondering if there is a way to find this out in a way so I don't have to tear it apart would like to do this by finding out what it is so I can get the parts for it then tear it apart but dk, and if its not a bigger head would like to find another because this one has problems someone had messed with the exaust stud holes and studs before I even got it they put a standard bolt on one side and a metric on the other and the threads are now messed up.

[Joseph Farrow]

Sounding more and more to me like you need to "accept" my original offer.

[1979atc]

Lol still not wanting to sell it I think its pretty cool even tho it doesn't run lol I'm wanting to fix it lol

[HairyJR]

Joseph, would be going to a good home if you purchase it! :lol:

"HJ" 219059 :beer

[1979atc]

It has a good home now doesn't want to leave just wants to fly again lol

[Jwheeler]

Maybe you should find some Lol with wings.:beer

[1979atc]

Lol when its done when its fixed, it be half way flying with the wheel in the air like it did once before lol