Random 1980s racing pictures [Archive]

John_Neary

07-03-2015, 05:47 PM

Going through my photos and picked out some nice ones for your Friday enjoyment :)

(1) Staging area at Watsonville, you can see Mickey on his 85 250r (the very first one i had ever seen and it was love at first sight). It was so new Mickey was still bolting on hop up parts the morning of the race, including a flat track tank kit and that sweet cone pipe.

You can see Tommy sitting next to Mickey and Chris White on the #14 behind them, i am #26 on my Franks Rotax 250
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(2) George on his Franks KTM 250 sitting between Mike Coe #23 and Marty Hart #7, i am not sure who the Tecate rider is. This was a invitational race held in Alaska that i did not go to. I have more photos from it ill up load later.
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(3)Starting line for the Grand Prix of the Big Bear held at Big Bear Lake in 1984. Mickey is #19, Jimmy #31 and Chris White is #40 with me #26 between them. I think this is a heat race for the 250 class.
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(4)Staging at Pomona for Mickey Thompson race in 84, how many of those riders can you name? ;)
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(5)Start at Big Bear, #53 is Donnie Luce, #34 is Dean Sundahl, i am in white on the KTM
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(6)Pomona Mickey Thompson start in 84, i am in white on the far right and i see #15 is Mike Bergman (sp?) and #7 is Marty Hart on the far left and #3 behind him is Paul Woods.
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(7) Random Odyssey at the Mint 400...have to be nuts to race one of those in a SCORE desert race.
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(8) 250 class start at a random Argyle park race, you can see Jimmy with #31 on his helmet on the left. I am in the back on my 200 in white, third from the right.
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(9) Curtis Sparks was pure style, here on his 200x at Big Bear.
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(10)Stevie Wright at Big Bear on the gas and on the edge...as always. Stevie did not win a lot of races but he always put in 100% effort.
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(11) Tommy Gaien on his 200x at Big Bear
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(12)Starting line for the 1982 Score World Championships at Riverside raceway. George is on the far left walking to his Nickolson XR500 with Mike Coe next to him. Id have to look closely to see who the other guys are but you can make out Eddie Sanders Nickolson frame RM250 powered bike over on the right side, in yellow of course.
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(13)Start of some random fairgrounds race, i like this shot cause you can see #43 is Curtis Sparks on a 250R, he did not often race 250s so nice to get a pic of him on one. George is number #74 and i think #9 is Chris White.
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(14)Random shot at Fremont Raceway...gotta dig that old school ambulance.
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(15)Not sure who the rider is but how sweet is this YZ powered three wheeler? This is the open class at San Jose in 82 so that is either a Yz400 or Yz465 engine...i am just behind him on my Can-Am 400 powered bike my Dad had custom made..i got a lot more shots of that bike coming later.I believe i got sixth with this chap finishing one spot ahead of me.
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Ok that is all for today but i got a lots more so stay tuned.

*edit for spelling error*

Mickey Dunlap

07-03-2015, 05:56 PM

The pic I'm in with Tommy, it looks like he's talking to my little brother Ralph that was riding one of my 200x's #191. Looks like he has all my riding gear on too.

John_Neary

07-03-2015, 06:05 PM

Its funny to say now but back then there was a number of riders George and i called "The Mickey Clones" cause they had a white 200x and had gear just like yours. :lol:

barnett468

07-03-2015, 07:13 PM

.

John, you are the man . . You have the only known photo of me racing a 3 wheeler . . You were probably lined up close to me if not next to me for the start . . I am on the Tecate between Donnie and “The King” Dean Sundal in the photo below . . I can’t express how happy I am to have even just one photo of me racing, because unfortunately, all my photos are gone, so now I at least have something to show the kids…and grand kids . . yes, that race was a few years ago, lol.

I think I ended up 5th or maybe one or two further back . . Heck, it might have even been 10th . . I was in desert doing testing with Kawi the week before the race so I drove up the back side to get there and had a bit too much “fun’ the night before, so I was a bit “tired” for the race shall we say . . I think the only reason I didn’t quit was because James Degaine kept cheering me on every lap, so there is no way I could have quit with him there doing that . . I think he kept yelling some lie to me like “You’re catching up to them” or something which I knew was bull, lol . . A day or so later at work, our lovely personnel manager named Bonnie, told me that I was in the Team Green results for that race, so James apparently though it would be amusing to make me an honorary Team Green rider for the day . . Until then, I had no idea where I finished and didn’t really care, simply because I was so happy to just have finished at all, lol.

Notice how sideways Dean is on the start . . Mike Coe said the Hondas had poor traction on some terrain because Honda made them use Ohtsu tires, and even though they were special made, they basically sucked.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217853&d=1435958413&thumb=1

Mickey Dunlap

07-03-2015, 07:37 PM

Its funny to say now but back then there was a number of riders George and i called "The Mickey Clones" cause they had a white 200x and had gear just like yours. :lol:

Yea when I found my Team Honda 200x the guy made it blue and white, Powroll was the king in Washington and Oregon so everyone wanted bikes that looked like mine, not Team Honda.

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Joseph Farrow

07-03-2015, 09:05 PM

Great Stuff!
I appreciate you sharing Early West Coast ATC Racing History.

onformula1

07-03-2015, 10:00 PM

Thank you for sharing and taking the time out, I love the vintage stuff!

Jmoozy27

07-03-2015, 11:49 PM

The pic I'm in with Tommy, it looks like he's talking to my little brother Ralph that was riding one of my 200x's #191. Looks like he has all my riding gear on too.

Mickey, my first glance at this thread and I thought "what the he'll is #19 doing on a 2 stroke". :lol:

onformula1

07-04-2015, 03:42 AM

Mickey, my first glance at this thread and I thought "what the he'll is #19 doing on a 2 stroke". :lol:

He did ride a 2 stroke in his career.

If I remember correctly a 200 and a 250r.

onformula1

07-04-2015, 03:45 AM

LOL at the term "The Mickey Clones" they were everywhere in parts of southern California and all over Arizona, especially at Glamis & the Cinders

Mickey Dunlap

07-04-2015, 12:16 PM

Mickey, my first glance at this thread and I thought "what the he'll is #19 doing on a 2 stroke". :lol:

I asked my self that a few times too! lol

Mickey Dunlap

07-04-2015, 12:26 PM

LOL at the term "The Mickey Clones" they were everywhere in parts of southern California and all over Arizona, especially at Glamis & the Cinders

Really, I never heard anyone say that before. When I raced in Alaska they introduced me and the crowed applauded, but when they did the same with the Team Honda riders they got booed! I was getting help at that time from Honda, but it made me think twice about riding for them. Even when I did race for them I didn't like how we would get to ride tracks a few days before a race when no one else got to do that. It's not like we needed to do that, I just didn't like it, it wasn't fair.

Joseph Farrow

07-04-2015, 12:45 PM

(12)Starting line for the 1982 Score World Championships at Riverside raceway. George is on the far left walking to his Nickolson XR500 with Mike Coe next to him. Id have to look closely to see who the other guys are but you can make out Eddie Sanders Nickolson frame RM250 powered bike over on the right side, in yellow of course.
Click image for larger version. Name: img033.jpg Views: 18 Size: 298.4 KB ID: 217860

Hey John do you have any better pic's of Georges Nicholson 500. My brother and I are building a Nicholson 500 period correct Racer bike. Want to model it after the early style 500's (wide tire).

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There was a guy who ran out of Evan's Honda in Paducah Kentucky a Nich 500 in our area. I always wanted one. Ran up on a bike in Florida a little while back and was able to get it. It was a "Custom" bike but we are going to convert it back over to a full out race bike, like it should be. :)

Here is a pic of the bike from Kentucky. I pulled it from an old VHS taped race I found. He mainly raced it on large flat track and TT tracks.
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Here is the bike we are starting with "Big Moe"
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We're taking Big Moe from four to two....
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Sorry for hijacking the tread. Just if you have any info or pics on the Nicholson 500 race bike I would be interested in seeing.
Thanks again for posting past racing history!

John_Neary

07-04-2015, 03:35 PM

@Joseph - Feel free to hijack away, if anyone has photos or comments they wanna add by all means go for it.

I found one photo of the XR500 Nickolson bike on our trailer along with my Curtis Sparks build XR200 Nickolson bike in the pits at Saddleback in 82, no idea why i am making such a funny face. :lol:

The XR500 was a bike i never raced so i have no race shots of it but ill likely find a bunch of photos of it once i get started on George's photo albums.

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barnett468

07-04-2015, 04:32 PM

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@Joseph - Feel free to hijack away, if anyone has photos or comments they wanna add by all means go for it.

Ok, cool, thanks for letting us post comments on your thread . . I didn’t want to post any more than I had so as not to clutter up your thread.

I actually liked your white bike and your riding gear because of the white . . I was tired of seeing green and red bikes all the time so you stood out and were easy to see.

As far as the Big Bear race goes, Jimmy hole shot that one and I think he won it.

I posted some of the following questions on your other thread but you might not have seen them . . It would be great if you had the time to answer any of them.

Did you race the LA Coliseum, or San Diego Sports Arena races or the last short track race at Saddleback or the 3 hour long GP mud fest at Perris Raceway, these were all 84-85?

If so, do you have any photos of those races?

Do you have any of the results from those races or the Big Bear race? . . I’m curious where I and the others ended up for certain . . I know where I finished in the LA Coliseum and Saddleback and Perris races, but am still curious where others finished . . I never kept track of that stuff because I never really cared that much, I was just happy to race because it was fun, but now I kinda wish I had.

Anyway, as the others have mentioned, thanks for taking the time to post the photos.

John_Neary

07-04-2015, 04:52 PM

@barrnett468 - Sadly i have almost no photos from 1985 or 86 because by then my Dad and retired the camera in favor of stop watches so he figure out where i was gaining or losing time on the track so we could improve on my lines or the bike setup. Somewhere we had a VHS tape of the full event from the San Diego Sports Arena, i did not race that event as i think i was injured or something but i remember George having really good races there with Mickey, Marty and others.

You are the #29 Tecate if i am correct, yes?
Big Bear GP
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Corona Raceway
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Mickey Dunlap

07-04-2015, 05:30 PM

If you have a good VHS tape Bryan Raffa that is on Face Book and he can make it for YOUTUBE viewing. He did my riding tape and 86' Porterville that came out good. If you need his info I'll pm it to you, he sends the tape back unharmed so I'm sure everyone would like to see San Diego Sports Arena race. I know I won the 200 class and Marty got 2nd behind me but I don't remember if Jimmy won the 250?

barnett468

07-04-2015, 06:41 PM

@barrnett468 - Sadly i have almost no photos from 1985 or 86 because by then my Dad and retired the camera in favor of stop watches so he figure out where i was gaining or losing time on the track so we could improve on my lines or the bike setup. Sadly i have almost no photos from 1985 or 86 because by then my Dad and retired the camera in favor of stop watches so he figure out where i was gaining or losing time on the track so we could improve on my lines or the bike setup.

You are the #29 Tecate if i am correct, yes?

Big Bear GP

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BIG BEAR

Most xlnt . . yup, that be me…and unfortunately…that be you in front of me in the second photo, lol . . I like that photo though . . You can see your inside tire off the ground . . That’s some hard chargin right there.

I clearly remember your name on the BACK of your shirt where it was EASY for me to see from my position BEHIND you which was on more than one occasion I’m sure, lol.

Yeah, it's unfortunate you don't have any photos for yourself from the other years.

Somewhere we had a VHS tape of the full event from the San Diego Sports Arena, i did not race that event as i think i was injured or something but i remember George having really good races there with Mickey, Marty and others.

SAN DIEGO

I would be greatly indebted to you if you ever had the time to somehow download the San Diego race to youtube and pm it to me or something or post it on trikesville ect. . Until that race, I was using knobbies for the races including the short tracks at Corona . . After I unloaded my bike, at that race, Jimmy came over and looked at my tires and told me he had some better ones I could have, so I got some used Hoosiers on Mitchell rims from him and bolted those on . . Then I saw a couple hot looking chicks so I started talking to them and they told me they were the trophy girls and they were quite friendly, so I had some plans in my head, lol.

Well the race started and I hole shot it with the nice Hoosier tires that Jimmy had just given me, lol, and as I came around still in first place, I looked at the trophy girls in the stands and gave them the piece sign hoping my impressive start and uber “coolness” would impress them which I hoped would benefit me after the race.

Well, since I was bit distracted, I ended up getting passed by Jimmy [which would have happened anyway] and a couple other guys, so I probably ended up around 5th . . After the race I was pretty tired and had a 2 hour drive back, so sadly, I left the trophy girl dream behind me as I headed back home.

Anyway, thank you very much for making the effort and taking the time to post those for me . . I assure you I greatly appreciate it and wish I could return the favor.

barnett468

07-04-2015, 11:35 PM

.

barrnett468 You are the #29 Tecate if i am correct, yes?

Corona Raceway

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Yes John, that photo above is also me . . Is it from the 2 or 3 hour long Corona GP? . . I don’t remember doing another race there but I don’t remember a lot of things these days, lol . . James Degaine really wanted to win that Perris race for some reason so he got Jimmy, and Donnie to ride and asked me if I could also because he wanted to run a 3 man relay team . . James knew I was used to going wot for an hour at a time because of all the endurance testing we did on the bikes plus he saw me testing on the Saddleback Baja course a little while before the Corona race and was taking my lap times [I had no idea why] so I’m guessing that’s why he asked me.

So, low and behold, guess who is also at that Corona race? . . Yes it’s the Team Honda guys, and as usual, they came out with their big fancy truck and had a huge awning and space heaters and dancing girls etc, but at this particular race, all we had was a small box van and tiny awning that was barely big enough for the four of us and we had to leave the bike out in the rain, lol.

In spite of all of Honda’s creature comforts and big expense accounts and factory works type cylinders etc, Jimmy got the hole shot and we led from start to finish.

Anyway, if that is not the GP, then you probably beat me there too, lol, irregardless, can you please tell me what race it was and who any of the other riders are if you happen to know? . . I would think that the guy with the number 2 on his bike would have to be pretty bold to put that on there if he wasn’t “somebody”.

Thanks again and have a fun and safe 4th.

atc300r

07-06-2015, 11:41 AM

I remember reading about you guys back in the day in the Dirtwheels mags. I raced localy back in 85 here in NY. I still have my my 81 and 85 250r racers from back then. Iv been racing again here in NY with Bryan Raffa ,Fred Morrell,Pistol Pete Thompson and some other guys.I remember reading a couple articles in DirtWheels about you trimming the front fenders from your quad and it increased your lap time.Its great to see you on here sharing your adventures about trike racing and your pics. I also think you deserve a star next to your name.

atc300r

07-06-2015, 11:45 AM

Forgot to mention Rob Selvy and Kenny Roberts are still working their magic at BDT Motorsports in California. Rob is a member on a trx 250r site. They do some great work their I sent them my 85 250r cases for repair and the look awesome.

John_Neary

07-07-2015, 04:40 PM

Some more randoms

(1)Start of the 200cc main at the flat track nationals in 1982
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(2)Doug Reiswig riding the cushion on his 185s, Cycleland Speedway 1982
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(3)Speedway 117 Baja Cross,1982. Not sure why Wax has his Honda 110 with him but pretty cool to see he put a front disc brake on it. Looks like Tracy Dickson is about to smack Stevie Wright upside the head, maybe not.
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(4)Only existing photo of my CR500 powered 85 250R seen here at the Riverside Score World Championship in 1985. You can see it used a cut down 82 250R fuel tank and the radiator is off a Kawasaki Tecate to make room for the jumbo engine. Bike was fast but the front end was very heavy feeling and the vibration made my hands go numb.
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Sadly i crashed in practice soon after this photo was taken after hitting a downed rider on the other side of a blind jump and bent it up so badly we parked it for the rest of the day and i raced another bike.

(5) Bad start against that many riders would be hard to recover from.
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(6)I count ten factory bikes, two Franks and Mickey's Powroll...plus whatever we cant see behind the bleachers.
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(7) King Dean pulling a holeshot
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ironchop

07-07-2015, 06:29 PM

Mickey Dunlap

07-07-2015, 06:56 PM

I wish I could see the #1 pic better. I think I was there but I had a xl 175 converted into a 3 wheeler. I never got any pics of it. I think I was running 4th before the coil mount broke.

It's nice to have you on here with some fresh pics no one has seen. Good job!

El Camexican

07-07-2015, 07:20 PM

Third time to ask.

Why doesn't Neary have a star yet?

Somebody really should put all Neary`s pic threads in one place for reference purposes.

Consolidation is your friend.

Thanks again, Mr. Neary.

Amen to that, or do we need to sign a petition??? Maybe Barnett can get one too if he rejoins with his full name. Billy could even throw in a nice fresh edit button as a signup bonus:lol:

ironchop

07-07-2015, 08:03 PM

Yeah taking away his edit button seems to have only increased his post-per-thread count....and his thorough (long winded) diatribes......unintended consequences?

Wtf is your full name, Barnett?

I see Mickey "Dunlop"(lol, I bet he hates that) doesn't have a star either. Did they just quit doing that?

Sent from my Z998 using Tapatalk

John_Neary

07-07-2015, 08:16 PM

ironchop

07-07-2015, 08:22 PM

@ironchop - I was only making a new thread for the unique bikes and from now on will be posting most stuff here. Just was hoping to make it easier on folks doing a google search to find the page on like Eddie's Suzuki and the Franks bikes without making them skim thru 50 pages of a general picture thread.

I assumed you had a method behind your posting choices and I was absolutely sure the reason you mentioned was the reason. I agree it makes searches easier. I`m just lazy.

You do it however you want to, John Neary. I WILL adapt. Thanks for the killer pics. I didn`t know how many different custom racer builds there were so early on the sport. I`ve received an education for sure.

A fella can wish, can`t he?

Joseph Farrow

07-07-2015, 09:59 PM

I think they did away with the "Star" thing.....

Third time to ask.

Why doesn't Neary have a star yet?

Somebody really should put all Neary`s pic threads in one place for reference purposes.

Consolidation is your friend.

Thanks again, Mr. Neary.

Joseph Farrow

07-07-2015, 10:01 PM

onformula1

07-07-2015, 10:44 PM

@Joseph - Nice find but that is not Mickey. I know this because that is me on my Nickolson 185s that we had put a XR75 fuel tank on...you can even see my last name on the jersey. :)

No gloves?

My brother would only ride/race with no gloves.

John_Neary

07-07-2015, 10:51 PM

@Joseph - Nice find but that is not Mickey. I know this because that is me on my Nickolson 185s that we had put a XR75 fuel tank on...you can even see my last name on the jersey. :lol:

Couple more pics of that bike.
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Mickey here is another angle of the 200 class start, can you see your bike?
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*edit for double post*

KASEY

07-08-2015, 12:33 AM

in #1 picture san jose I am behind the banner in the front row,, and mickey isn't that you rollin up to the front right behind the banner? I started a couple bikes off the inside,, you can see a yellow fender that's me...

Mickey Dunlap

07-08-2015, 08:31 AM

Could this be it???

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No, but close, mine had the ATC 90 fenders and seat, but a RM 125 aluminum tank. Then the motor was a stroke Powroll that made it a 199cc.

Mickey Dunlap

07-08-2015, 08:38 AM

@Joseph - Nice find but that is not Mickey. I know this because that is me on my Nickolson 185s that we had put a XR75 fuel tank on...you can even see my last name on the jersey. :lol:

Couple more pics of that bike.
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Mickey here is another angle of the 200 class start, can you see your bike?
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*edit for double post*

No, but I think Kasey is right, but it's hard to tell.

manbearpig

07-08-2015, 09:20 AM

Speedway 117 Baja Cross,1982. Not sure why Wax has his Honda 110 with him but pretty cool to see he put a front disc brake on it. Looks like Tracy Dickson is about to smack Stevie Wright upside the head, maybe not.
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HAHA! that 110 is actually a 180 and this picture is the last race it ever raced in. That bike looks exactly the same today. i took it to the 2014 CALVMX 3 wheeler national. Still runs. Broke the pull cord in Mark's hand when he was showing me how to start it. Too cool to see it was pulled off the track and put up for 30 years.. just like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y47aBqLQXWg

Joseph Farrow

07-08-2015, 10:15 AM

I knew you would like that. LOL

@Joseph - Nice find but that is not Mickey. I know this because that is me on my Nickolson 185s that we had put a XR75 fuel tank on...you can even see my last name on the jersey. :lol:

Couple more pics of that bike.
218138 218139 218140 218141 218142

Mickey here is another angle of the 200 class start, can you see your bike?
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*edit for double post*

John_Neary

07-08-2015, 10:57 AM

@manbearpig - When i signed with Honda to race their Fourtrax in 87 i was hanging out with Chuck Miller for the day and we went by Wax's condo for lunch and while there i saw his hopped up 110, it was super polished and in his living room on display. :)

bkm

07-08-2015, 09:50 PM

John, do you happen to have any pictures of Jackie Meadow's 86 Team Green 125 Tecate?

John_Neary

07-08-2015, 10:09 PM

@BKM - No sorry i have not come across any photos of Jackie, he never raced head to head against myself or George and my Dad stopped taking his cameras to the races around the time we stopped racing the Franks bikes so ive almost no photos besides magazine cut outs from 85 onward. If i do come across one ill be sure to post it.

bkm

07-08-2015, 10:43 PM

John_Neary

07-08-2015, 11:49 PM

Nickolson XR500

Nick Nickolson's vision of a XR500 three wheeler,so clean it could be a factory production model.

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Our vision of a XR500 three wheeler was a bit more...aggressive. :twisted:

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Start of the Score World Championship at Riverside Raceway,1982.George and his XR500 are on the far left.
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Local race at Sand Hill Ranch 1982
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San Jose Flat Track Nationals 1982, first lap George is third behind Team Honda's Mike Coe #23 and Dean Sundahl #34

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With Dean behind him George would set off after Coe and for most the race would not be more than a bike length off the lead.
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Notice on Mike's fuel tank is says "350", Coe's bikes always had those nice little extra touches.
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In the end Mike held on and would win the Open class Championship and George was left with a disappointed second place.
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Feel free to add questions or comments. :)

onformula1

07-09-2015, 12:00 AM

Can you gives us some info on the rear tires and wheels on the XR500?

John_Neary

07-09-2015, 12:08 AM

Tires are a front tire off a sprint car made by Goodyear if i recall correctly, wheels are some custom ones my Dad had made but i forget the name. Ill ask George next time i speak to him. Far as i remember i never raced or even rode the XR500 so i do not remember a huge amount about it.

I do recall it had a motor built by Rob Selvy that was bored and stroked to something like 580cc and the pipe was a straight megaphone that was so loud it made my ears ring the for hours after the races. It had a oil cooler and about every other cool goodie you could come up with.

I can get more info about it from George or my Dad.

onformula1

07-09-2015, 03:32 AM

Thank you, funny how back in the old days you had to think "Outside the box" for tires and wheels, then a few years later you could buy anything you wanted and now you have to think "Outside the box" on tires and wheels...It's tough to find- Armstrong, Ohtsu, Hoosier, Carlisle, Dunlap, ETC. ATC tires except for 30 year old NOS tires that go for a mint!

atc007

07-09-2015, 07:53 AM

I swear to God john, opening this thing everyday now,is like Racing out to the mailbox in the old days for ATV News!! Question,, how many injuries///broken bones and worse lol, did you and George suffer racing 3 wheelers. I'm not talking the purple/green/yellow insides of your thighs,blisters etc...... Injuries from wrecks. You guys were in the hunt every freaking race, flying on "homemade" machines. There had to be lots of hairy moments every single lap lol.

Joseph Farrow

07-09-2015, 10:02 AM

You know Mike could feel that big Thumper breathing down his back. lol

Nickolson XR500

Nick Nickolson's vision of a XR500 three wheeler,so clean it could be a factory production model.

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Our vision of a XR500 three wheeler was a bit more...aggressive. :twisted:

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Start of the Score World Championship at Riverside Raceway,1982.George and his XR500 are on the far left.
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Local race at Sand Hill Ranch 1982
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San Jose Flat Track Nationals 1982, first lap George is third behind Team Honda's Mike Coe #23 and Dean Sundahl #34

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With Dean behind him George would set off after Coe and for most the race would not be more than a bike length off the lead.
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Notice on Mike's fuel tank is says "350", Coe's bikes always had those nice little extra touches.
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In the end Mike held on and would win the Open class Championship and George was left with a disappointed second place.
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Feel free to add questions or comments. :)

Joseph Farrow

07-09-2015, 10:25 AM

The rear rims look almost the same as the ones on the bike I have. They are a 12" two piece wheel 3X100 lug. Here are a couple of pic's. From the outside it's hard to tell what they look like with the "Weld Wheel" center cap. lol

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I first thought the outer bolts in the rim were for looks but they actually hold the two piece wheel together. They used the Pro Series Dura Blue 3 lug hubs.
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Any and all info on the Nick500 would be greatly appreciated. :)

I know I keep saying it but thank you for posting this info and pics. It was a special time in history. :beer

Tires are a front tire off a sprint car made by Goodyear if i recall correctly, wheels are some custom ones my Dad had made but i forget the name. Ill ask George next time i speak to him. Far as i remember i never raced or even rode the XR500 so i do not remember a huge amount about it.

I do recall it had a motor built by Rob Selvy that was bored and stroked to something like 580cc and the pipe was a straight megaphone that was so loud it made my ears ring the for hours after the races. It had a oil cooler and about every other cool goodie you could come up with.

I can get more info about it from George or my Dad.

manbearpig

07-09-2015, 12:32 PM

Quick question: why the huge rear meats on the 500? Were they used for gearing? any reason George preferred the larger tires over the 18in flat track style tires?

those wheels almost look like Centerlines

John_Neary

07-09-2015, 12:39 PM

@atc007 - Only serious injury i had on 3 wheelers was a dislocated shoulder i received racing my 200x at a local TT race after a flat tire caused me to hit the wall and flip over a couple times. From what i remember George was injury free during his years racing.

@manbearpig - As George learned at San Jose on with KTM495 in 83 the bigbore bikes would shred a set of the normal atc tires before a 20 lap main was over so my Dad was searching for way to fix that with the larger mini sprint tires. George never liked the big tires and has at least one bitter memory of them when at the Mint 400 in 82 he was way out front and less than 20 miles from the finish on his Nickolson XR500 when he suffered a broken axle while running the jumbo sized tires and wheels.

George was less of a willing test subject than i was. :lol:

atc300r

07-09-2015, 01:25 PM

John did you race against or do you remember Rodney Shedenhelm. Hes from California. He came to NY and raced with us at a local track Paradise speedway. Geneva ny.

John_Neary

07-09-2015, 01:36 PM

@atc300r - The last name rings a bell but id have to see a photo of one of his bikes to remember when i raced with him. I have always had a memory that triggers off images more so than names/words, was an issue that held me back a bit in school.

atc300r

07-09-2015, 02:42 PM

He was sponcored by Holiday Honda.I think his # was either 56 or 58.

John_Neary

07-09-2015, 04:13 PM

ironchop

07-09-2015, 04:32 PM

The cool thing is your dads actions had a major impact on the sport of 3 wheeler racing back in the day by supporting you and George and here over 30 yrs later, the fruits of his photography are still making an impact on trike lovers and racers alike via the internet.

Who would have thought?
That's badass if you think about it

John_Neary

07-09-2015, 05:06 PM

Yeah Pops always did think of the big picture, I think one reason he stopped taking photos so much when we started riding the Hondas and Quadracers is because we where mostly on boring, semi production stuff not really worth documenting in the same way as the more unique one offs.

Few more pics of Tracy Dickson's Yamaha i found.

Staging at Riverside in 81, George is next to him on the 250r with the goodyear rawhide tires.
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Arroyo Cycle Park (now Glen Helen). Notice the full suspension Odyssey, that is a Challenger frame kit..very trick for 1981.
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Toaster556

07-09-2015, 06:38 PM

@atc300r - I have some photos of guys on all white Honda 250rs, he might be one of them. They are mixed in with a ton of other photos but ill keep a eye out next time i rummage thru the pile.

Was looking for more photos and i found my Dad's old press clipping folder he had to show prospective sponsors, was mostly Quad racer stuff ill not taint this forum with but i did find a stash of stickerss and iron-ons that i had no idea was in there.

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bet some of you would love those original CalFab swing arm stickers :D

You can taint the quad subforum, I love the old Quadracers. Im sorry to hear about your injury, one of my MXing heroes severed his spinal cord a few years back at the Montreal SX. Hes got a modified RZR he tools around North Saskatchewan with now, as fast as ever lol.9

Keep the pictures comin! This thread is awesome.

onformula1

07-09-2015, 09:09 PM

John_Neary

07-09-2015, 11:40 PM

Mickey Dunlop and his 200x

Chris White leading Marty Hart and Mickey at Big Bear.
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200 class at Saddleback in 84, Mickey on the #19 along with about a half dozen other factory riders mixed in there.
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Mickey and his #19 200x mixing it up with the fastest 250s in the country.George is #26 on his KTM with Eddie Sanders behind him in Yellow. Notice Marty Hart on the #3 has one of the handmade HRC watercooled works engines in his 83 250R, trick stuff.
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George and Mickey always had great battles on the track.
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I believe these next three are from San Diego Arena in 83.
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200 class at San Jose, Mickey is on the far left with George and i on our Franks Can-Am 200s.
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Mickey talking with George and Chris White in the post race impound area, top 3 in every class got sent to impound soon as they got the checkered flag for fuel and displacement tests and in case of a protest.
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Mickey didn't slow down for rain, snow or sleet.
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Was a pleasure to race against Mickey, he raced hard but clean and always put in 100% effort.

Found a Hi-Point ad with Mickey on his 200x (pardon the Quad racers, pretend they are not there)

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Mickey Dunlap

07-10-2015, 09:28 AM

Mickey Dunlop and his 200x

Chris White leading Marty Hart and Mickey at Big Bear.
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200 class at Saddleback in 84, Mickey on the #19 along with about a half dozen other factory riders mixed in there.
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Mickey and his #19 200x mixing it up with the fastest 250s in the country.George is #26 on his KTM with Eddie Sanders behind him in Yellow. Notice Marty Hart on the #3 has one of the handmade HRC watercooled works engines in his 83 250R, trick stuff.
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George and Mickey always had great battles on the track.
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I believe these next three are from San Diego Arena in 83.
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200 class at San Jose, Mickey is on the far left with George and i on our Franks Can-Am 200s.
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Mickey talking with George and Chris White in the post race impound area, top 3 in every class got sent to impound soon as they got the checkered flag for fuel and displacement tests and in case of a protest.
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Mickey didn't slow down for rain, snow or sleet.
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Was a pleasure to race against Mickey, he raced hard but clean and always put in 100% effort.

Great pics, thank you!

The first 4 pics are in the 250 class and I'm racing a 200x.

Mickey Dunlap

07-10-2015, 09:36 AM

I just looked at the one with me talking to George and Chris and to the left in the all white jumper is Phil Cancilla, he made our chain tensioners. I still use his rubber donut to mount tires. lol

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manbearpig

07-10-2015, 10:33 AM

@manbearpig - As George learned at San Jose on with KTM495 in 83 the bigbore bikes would shred a set of the normal atc tires before a 20 lap main was over so my Dad was searching for way to fix that with the larger mini sprint tires. George never liked the big tires and has at least one bitter memory of them when at the Mint 400 in 82 he was way out front and less than 20 miles from the finish on his Nickolson XR500 when he suffered a broken axle while running the jumbo sized tires
and wheels.

WOW. never really thought of that, but makes perfect sense. today's race courses are more loamy dirt rather than blue groove hard surface so the tires dont get torn up, but i can absolutely see it happening with the 500CC tire spinners. Bummer about the 82 Mint. as i recall, the nick 500's used 81/82 atc185 HD Durablue axles. one tough axle.. until you subject it to 380 miles of Nevada desert.

John_Neary

07-10-2015, 02:34 PM

@Mickey - Yeah Phil and my Dad knew each other from the early days of racing Harley's on the mile flat tracks back in the late 50s and early 60s. We used his chain tensioners on all our early bikes and the tire donut made life so much easier.

@manbearpig - We used Maxtrax (hope i am getting the name right) axles but it was the unsprung weight of the huge wheel and tire combined with miles of wash board bumps that George blames the failure on and far as i know that is the only MaxTrax axle we ever broken or even bent. The knock off hubs you see on some of our earlier bikes are also made by MaxTrax

John_Neary

07-10-2015, 03:47 PM

One for the Tiger fans

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Flipping thru some old ATVNews clippings and found this photo of a Tiger 125 at the races

bkm

07-10-2015, 05:08 PM

I love the Tigers. I will hopefully own one someday.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

John_Neary

07-10-2015, 10:00 PM

Jimmy White on his privateer Hondas

Argyll MX Park, 1982

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Saddleback 1982, Jimmy is 531, Dean Sundahl #34, Curtis Sparks #43, Chris White #75 (behind Dean),Mark Weixeldorfer #51, Stevie Wright #22, Mike Coe #23, George Neary #99..that is all i can name from memory.

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George on his '82 Nickolson Selvy Honda chasing Jimmy on his 83 Bassani powered 250R. Corona Raceway, 1983.

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phantomtracer

07-11-2015, 12:30 AM

John,

Keep it coming!
This is awesome. I was lucky enough to be at the age to enjoy the explosion of atc's just like you.
I can remember reading about these races, but your photos are adding so much to the story.
Thank you.

manbearpig

07-11-2015, 10:44 AM

John, In your search through your photos, if you come across any close ups of George's Nicholson 250R frame, i'd like to see them. Thank you so much for taking the time to post these up. much appreciated. this is mucho fun.

Heres my Nicholson 250R. I've been collecting up parts for about a year to make it shine, but for now its wearing all that nice patina.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k557/proct103/5726B0A6-B376-4066-8538-FA22968A2A36-1006-000000EA0D815186_zps0e3417ed.jpg (http://s1115.photobucket.com/user/proct103/media/5726B0A6-B376-4066-8538-FA22968A2A36-1006-000000EA0D815186_zps0e3417ed.jpg.html)

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k557/proct103/1E88FA53-6FB7-4431-9A45-53FB052AC2A4-1006-000000EA09D09F3E_zpsed79e825.jpg (http://s1115.photobucket.com/user/proct103/media/1E88FA53-6FB7-4431-9A45-53FB052AC2A4-1006-000000EA09D09F3E_zpsed79e825.jpg.html)

John_Neary

07-11-2015, 02:19 PM

@manbearpig - George has a ton of photos of him racing his Nickolson Selvy but not much in the way of shots of it in the pits with the seat and fuel tank off giving a good view of the bike itself. Here are a few of the better ones showing the bike plus some racing shots to motivate when working on your's. :lol:

Saddleback Park
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Corona Raceway
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San Jose Nationals
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Fremont Raceway
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manbearpig

07-11-2015, 11:52 PM

Stellar motivation, Sir. Thank you. Those are absolutely priceless.

Do either of you remember any specs on that bike? Exhaust, Selvy motor specs, swingarm?

onformula1

07-12-2015, 12:28 AM

John_Neary

07-12-2015, 12:48 AM

@manbearpig - Custom shorty exhaust by Rob Selvy, do not believe they ever went into public sale. Motor was a 82 250r ported with a 79 Yz250 head milled to run on race fuel. 40mm Lectron carb, Mossbarger reed block, 10mm reed block spacer, red WFO airbox, Fox twinclicker shock, Simons forks.

Motoplat ignition, Brembo front caliper, Front master cylinder off a road bike (not sure the type). MaxTrax knock off hubs, MaxTrax axle, ND spark plug, Hi Point spark plug cap, Tsubaki chain, Carlisle tires. Nickolson triple clamp, steal braided brake lines, Preston Petty number plate, Sundahl Racing fiberglass seat deck.

Swing arm is a Nickolson that has been nickel plated, frame also had a number of frame gussets added including a skidplate.

All i remember atm.

atc007

07-12-2015, 06:19 AM

manbearpig

07-12-2015, 10:04 AM

Onformula1 both heads are DG Radial heads. one has a bent bottom fin and the other had the edges of the fins polished

WOW... some really, really trick and exotic stuff there. Your memory is incredible. I've read magazine articles about that motor Rob built using the YZ head. REALLY COOL. Neat to hear about the nicholson swingarm and triple clamps. If you pay him, he will weld it. triples and swingarm werent public offerings. I've got more questions for you than are appropriate for this thread. i dont mean to dilute it much more.

Hope to catch you at one of the so cal events and chat it up.

thank you so much for posting up these pics!

John_Neary

07-12-2015, 02:42 PM

@manbearpig - Feel free to ask away, one reason i named this thread random is cause i encourage folks to comment and maybe share some old racing pics of their own.

All the Nickolson frames we got came with swing arms as far as i can remember, but he did not sell them separate. If you look at the pics of George's 250r and the XR500 you will notice the lower triple clamp is twice as thick as the upper one...that is because we would have two lower halves welded together because normally they where kinda thin and my Dad worried about flex.

On the XR500 you can see the weld in the center part. They where extremely basic, just some slabs of aluminum in triple clamp shape with nothing fancy for looks or stiffness.

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John_Neary

07-12-2015, 09:36 PM

Homemade Can-Am we had a local welder/machinist friend build for us in mid 1982. Frame is scratch built while the swingarm,shock, rear brake, seat, axle and hubs are all off a 82 250r donor bike. The orange engine is a Can-Am 400 but we also used a Can-Am 250 motor in this bike for a while as well. Fuel tank is off a 1980 CR250 i believe but the seat and tank changed a few times as you can see in the photos.

In many ways this was the prototype of our Franks bikes.

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George gets the state of the art Nicholson Selvy 250R and i get the weirdo rolling parts bin bike...thanks Dad..:lol:

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Pipe is off a Can-Am dirt bike with a few changes to make it fit. Nickolson triple clamp with a second lower clamp welded on as a brace. Simon forks with a very rough looking front brake mount/stay. For what a Frankenstein creation it was the results worked really well on the track and i raced this bike for better part of a year with no DNF's or complaints. Can-Am engine had its short comings but the built proof clutch and gearbox made it a winner for our purposes.

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All in all a great bike built from scraps and a bit of steel tubing.

onformula1

07-12-2015, 10:26 PM

^ This is sooooo cool! I did not know anything about this trike.

Those Rotax/Bombardier engines were pretty fast, especially with a good port job. They came in a ton of bikes back then.

I race a ATK 406 Patriot (Same engine with porting, modern carb and a few mods) in the mid to late 90's and they were pretty fun!

http://www.classiccanam.com/canam17.htm
http://www.classiccanam.com/canam15.htm
http://www.classiccanam.com/canam16.htm

El Camexican

07-12-2015, 11:24 PM

Your photo's and stories just keep getting better. I don't know how many more you have left, but when they run out there are going to be some people on here suffering from serious withdrawal. Until then, please carry on knowing that they are VERY appreciated.:beer

manbearpig

07-13-2015, 10:25 AM

All the Nickolson frames we got came with swing arms as far as i can remember, but he did not sell them separate. If you look at the pics of George's 250r and the XR500 you will notice the lower triple clamp is twice as thick as the upper one...that is because we would have two lower halves welded together because normally they where kinda thin and my Dad worried about flexx

I'm familiar with the tubular chromoly swingarms, but not the boxed swingers. the one on George's 500 is just like the swinger on this bike:

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k557/proct103/1456096_10201825472291453_1429008019_n_zps559094c1 .jpg (http://s1115.photobucket.com/user/proct103/media/1456096_10201825472291453_1429008019_n_zps559094c1 .jpg.html)

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k557/proct103/null_zps119c07ce.jpg (http://s1115.photobucket.com/user/proct103/media/null_zps119c07ce.jpg.html)

those triples are somethin else. Did either of the nicholsons get honda front ends, or did you go straight to the UDX forks? I bet those were night and day compared to the 82R front end... even with springs and a terry kit.

and for good measure... Nick 250R airborne 2013
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k557/proct103/CahuillaCreek519012_zpsbfb1807f.jpg (http://s1115.photobucket.com/user/proct103/media/CahuillaCreek519012_zpsbfb1807f.jpg.html)

John_Neary

07-13-2015, 11:14 AM

John_Neary

07-13-2015, 04:15 PM

Speedway 117 BajaCross 1982

Funny the stuff they used to let us get away with, i am racing in blue jeans. My Nickolson 185s with some motor work done by Curtis Sparks, was my main race bike in till the 200x came out in 83. Ill post some better pics of it later.

The #9 Tri-Moto 175 in the second photo was a cool bike, it had about every hopup you could put on a YT175 including a Pro-Tek rear suspension kit and he was quick on it. I remember him often running top five against the fast 200 class guys of the day with it.
218414 218415 218416 218417 218416

Nice size turn out, George on the #99...he was not a fan of these huge rear tires on the 250 and would often clash with my Dad about trying so much new stuff at the races without agreeing first that it was an improvement.
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@manbearpig - You can see the those alloy triple clamps on both bikes, here before we started welding two of the bottom ones together for stiffness. I see them on our bikes from early 82 in till we switched to Franks and i cant for the life of me remember us buying any chassis stuff like that from anyone but Nick...the mystery continues...:lol:

manbearpig

07-13-2015, 04:45 PM

@manbearpig - yea my 185s had the tube swing arm, maybe if someone bumps into Nick again they can ask him about the 250r swing arms and the alloy triple clamps as i could be mistaken about them being from him. I just cant think who else we would of gotten them from since there was not a lot of options for swing arms back then and they are not a Westcoast or other known brand as far as i can tell.

I'll have my father ask about the triple clamps and swingarms next time they chat. The frame i found had a Westcoast swinger on it when i drug it out of Santa Clarita.

Interesting about the alloy triples. They may have come from one of the shops around Nick's back in those days. Hi Performance ATC was down the street from his shop at one point, but all of the triple clamps ive seen on HPATC conversion bikes were tubular steel. Trick Trike was nearby in Lemon Grove. Johnson's and Danny's Machine Works were out in Santee. And all the shops in between. Plus the many garage machinists doing side work for various shops. More questions than answers... hahah

so did someone break a set of triple clamps and that prompted the welding two together? or were you two just going bigger with heavier machines and that was the natural progression?

Joseph Farrow

07-13-2015, 07:36 PM

The aluminum triples almost look like PK Racing.

barnett468

07-13-2015, 08:47 PM

@barrnett468 - Sadly i have almost no photos from 1985 or 86 because by then my Dad and retired the camera in favor of stop watches so he figure out where i was gaining or losing time on the track so we could improve on my lines or the bike setup.

You are the #29 Tecate if i am correct, yes?

Big Bear GP
217957
217958

Corona Raceway
217959

John, I was just looking at your latest and continuing cool posts and I came across these photos again and it just sank in that for some reason I kept thinking that photo number 3 (which actually shows me in front of you...temporarily) is not Perris Raceway, which might explain why my previous post might have sounded like I had been drinkin, lol . . I guess I didn't see the word Corona just above it earlier . . I don't know any of the other riders though.

From what my fading memory told me, this may have been my first or second race ever on a 3 wheeler unless it was after the Big Bear race.

Anyway, thanks again for posting those and for all the other great photos and stories.

knappyfeet

07-13-2015, 09:06 PM

Was the speedway 117 down by Brown field ? I think i saw Metallica play there ! Used to ride Palm Ave too !

Palm Ave.....wow....way back in the day. I about killed myself where sleep train is

John_Neary

07-14-2015, 01:57 PM

Here is Chubby kid on a 185s to cheer you up after reading the ATC500 thread :lol:

My first trip to Saddleback in late 81, no front brake and XR75 forks was not really the hot setup and mistakes were made the day I painted my rear fenders. How badly do you wanna rail that berm in the third photo?
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Different week, different front tire. Sandhill Ranch early 82. Note the black XR200 engine, huge improvement over the five speed auto clutch 185 engine. Not sure what i am more pleased about, winning or that i got to use a normal front tire and a front brake...
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Front tire roulette continues :rolleyes:, first pic is from Saddleback the second is Indian Dunes and the last three are from Carnegie Cyclepark (now Carnegie SVRA).
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This is the bike i have the most photos of so stay tuned for more adventures of Chubby kid and his 185.

MRBIGWHEELZ

07-14-2015, 04:37 PM

Great thread had to say thanks for spending time sharing photos and stories .....

Joseph Farrow

07-14-2015, 05:33 PM

ATC500 Tread.....what ATC500 tread. LOL :)

The Nick185 and 200's were awesome bikes. They are one of my favorites from the early days. Do you happen to have any of your early bikes or are they all gone.....
For anyone out there I am a serious buyer for a Nicholson 185-200. Bare frame and swing arm to complete bike. Does not matter.
Again thanks for posting. Keep it coming! I have some early pic's....kinda dont want to hijack your tread.

218491

Here is Chubby kid on a 185s to cheer you up after reading the ATC500 thread :lol:

My first trip to Saddleback in late 81, no front brake and XR75 forks was not really the hot setup and mistakes were made the day I painted my rear fenders. How badly do you wanna rail that berm in the third photo?
218467 218468 218469 218470 218471

Different week, different front tire. Sandhill Ranch early 82. Note the black XR200 engine, huge improvement over the five speed auto clutch 185 engine. Not sure what i am more pleased about, winning or that i got to use a normal front tire and a front brake...
218472 218473 218474 218475 218476

Front tire roulette continues :rolleyes:, first pic is from Saddleback the second is Indian Dunes and the last three are from Carnegie Cyclepark (now Carnegie SVRA).
218477 218486 218482 218483 218484

This is the bike i have the most photos of so stay tuned for more adventures of Chubby kid and his 185.

John_Neary

07-14-2015, 05:48 PM

No, only bikes i have kept are my Franks Rotax and Kawi road race bike. When the quadracer hype machine took over we sold off most the 3 wheeler stuff pretty quickly to local racers and by mid 87 there was nothing but quads and motocross bikes in my garage and one lonely franks bike pushed into a corner.

barnett468

07-14-2015, 05:54 PM

barnett468

07-14-2015, 05:57 PM

Sorry, post correction...broad race bike . . my tablet likes to substitute words and I'm not priveledgrd enough to have an edit button, lol.

bkm

07-14-2015, 06:02 PM

Sorry, post correction... I'm not priveledgrd enough to have an edit button, lol.

I think it's in the toolbox of the 87 500r.

Sorry John, I won't disgrace this awesome thread again, and to punish me I'd post current pics of your Franks to teach me a lesson.

barnett468

07-14-2015, 06:11 PM

Sorry, post correction...broad race bike . . my tablet likes to substitute words and I'm not priveledgrd enough to have an edit button, lol.

barnett468

07-14-2015, 06:25 PM

OK good this tablet is killi. Me...one more time...road race bike . . but of course if you have info or photos of a broad race bike I would be very interested in seeing those too.

barnett468

07-14-2015, 06:29 PM

%&#!#!....

Jmoozy27

07-14-2015, 06:46 PM

John, how old were you in the chubby kid pics? It must have been a blast living that life so young. It must be refreshing to this day knowing that it was done without major corporate backup. The site really needed a boost like your threads have been as of late.

John_Neary

07-14-2015, 07:16 PM

@barnett468 - My road bike is a 92 ZX750R, the race edition you could special order from Kawasaki that was loosely based on the Muzzy bike raced by Scott Russell. I only got to race it five times before i hurt my back at a local motocross race but the bike was great even mostly stock and i was turning 1:32 lap times on the bike track at Willow Springs on my second day riding it.

The track record back then for a bike was set by Chuck Greaves at a 1:24 so i was on a good pace for a rookie on a stock bike (has a Muzzy Titanium exhaust, Sudco jetkit,steel brake lines,stiffer fork springs and a WP shock and rest is stock Kawi).

I was not in the road racing scene long enough to meet any one to well known like Rob Muzzy but the track Pro and head of the racing school at Willow Springs, Kenny Kopecky, was impressed enough with me on the first day i had ever been on a track to take me aside and have me follow him instead of the pack of slow pokes following the instructors around so i could get a feel for the race pace. He was the one who found me about five minutes after my third win and said "welcome to the expert class" as he handed me a pro license with a grin on his face. :lol:

Big track at Willow Springs Raceway, summer 92. I still have that helmet and my Bates leathers, they are as new still.
218492
Taken today
218495
The bike is 100% as it was the last time i raced it in Portland International Raceway and it only has a couple hours use with no crashes or anything. It needs a full service after sitting so long but other wise its ready to race still, all safely wired up and everything...although its British Dunlop slicks have long since turned into plastic.I have more photos of it on the track but they are framed so i cant scan them atm. :)

bkm - Your punishment for mentioning the ATC500 thread that we do not name.
Rotax about ten minutes ago, im slowly cleaning it but of course no repainting or anything silly.
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I had to polish the muffler a bit, the melted sticker it had on it was driving me nuts.
218498

Scored this off ebay for the Rotax.
218496

@Jmoozy27 - I was 12 in the Saddleback pics and yeah it was awesome getting to ride and learn from the legends of the day since there was no "youth" class and everyone got lumped together by displacement. Luckily I did not hurt my ego to bad getting lapped by guys like Curtis Sparks. Having George to chase around helped keep me pushing forward and since no one wants to be the #2 guy on a team, even a family team, we had a pretty strong rivalry going by the time he stopped racing in 84.

My Dad spent a small fortune on our racing and ill be forever thankful to him for being so committed to us as riders.

bkm

07-14-2015, 07:24 PM

Absolutely beautiful John. Thank you sincerely.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

atc007

07-14-2015, 07:27 PM

My Sweet Jesus ,what a breathe of fresh air ,and pleasure to have you here. If you're ever looking for more parts John, LMK before you go spending money lol.

knappyfeet

07-14-2015, 07:39 PM

John_Neary

07-14-2015, 07:52 PM

@atc007 - I have a good photo of the missing front brake master cylinder that ended up on my Yz250 Quad and i "believe" its off a CB750 or something of that sort so still on the hunt for a replacement.

The front master cylinder off my Rotax that is MIA
218505

The front fender and both radiator wings (83 CR250 Maier) got cracked when George moved the bike in the back of a pickup truck a few years ago and the wind buffeting was to much for the old, brittle plastic. The radiator wings i can get from DC Plastic np but he wants a order of 20 of the front fenders if he is to do a special one off run of them and that would be likely $1500 or more so yikes.

:(

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Ive been checking Ebay for a long time now and no luck on the fender, tons of red ones but nada whites.

Anyone with a new or lightly used 81/82 ATC250R white Maier front fender send me a PM if you are interesting in working a deal, it will go to a good home. :)

John_Neary

07-14-2015, 08:00 PM

@Knappyfeet - Yeah the OWO1 was much more of a hardcore race bike out of the factory than the ZX750R was. I was on a Kawasaki kick at the time and from 88 till 92 bought nothing but KX dirt bikes and even a Kawi quad that i hopped up with parts i bought from Charlie Sheppard and raced a few times in 89.

My goal in road racing was to get a used Harris Yamaha 500GP bike and bring it state side and own all those guys on their fat, slow fourstrokes.

:)
218506

atc007

07-14-2015, 08:03 PM

Lol,, I can't make out much from that "great photo" lmao,,,It is a huge square one right? I'll see what I can do for plastics :)

John_Neary

07-14-2015, 08:10 PM

@atc007 - You can tell it by the air slots on the back, only type Maier did with that style if i recall.
https://www.maier-mfg.com/catalog/honda-atc250r-louvered-front-fender
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atc300r

07-15-2015, 08:01 AM

Some members on here had a run of first gen white 250r fenders done last year.You should run an ad see if anyone else wants to order a fender help cut your cost down.Your trike and bike are sweet.

atc007

07-15-2015, 08:27 AM

@atc007 - You can tell it by the air slots on the back, only type Maier did with that style if i recall.
https://www.maier-mfg.com/catalog/honda-atc250r-louvered-front-fender
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Lol, I meant the master :)

John_Neary

07-15-2015, 11:15 AM

Some Saddleback for your Wednesday

George in early 82.
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Who i can name from memory - George is #99, Mike Coe is #23, Dean Sunduhl is #34, Wax is #51, Eddie Sanders is #46, Chris White is #75, Jimmy White is #531, I am pretty sure #3 is Marty Hart, Curtis Sparks is #43, Stevie Wright is #22.
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King Dean dropping into the bowl.
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George talking with Team Honda's Mike Chester and i believe on the right in the Oneal gear is Dirt Wheels editor Phil Beckman.
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John_Neary

07-15-2015, 09:20 PM

for bkm - from August 86 3wheeling

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barnett468

07-15-2015, 09:45 PM

.

I was on a Kawasaki kick at the time and from 88 till 92 bought nothing but KX dirt bikes and even a Kawi quad that i hopped up with parts i bought from Charlie Sheppard and raced a few times in 89.

If you are talking about the T4 Tecate 250 quad, you have my sympathies . . That thing was a pos as a “high performance” race bike . . Here’s some of the background of it’s evolution if you’re interested . . There was a new engineer or mgr at Kawi R and D in Japan and they thought they could finally build a high perf off road bike without us, so that’s what they did . . When they sent it to us, it was in fact dangerous and virtually unrideable at high speed, so I told this to the Japanese engineer [whom was with us during all its testing] and the US mgr, and the Japanese engineer said it was fine and not dangerous at all because their novice level test rider said so . . After this, the US manager had 2 other US R and D riders come out to try it and he rode it as well . . The Japanese rider also came out, and all the US guys said the same thing I did, but the 4’ 7” tall, 90 lb novice level Japanese rider kept saying it was fine even though his lap times were still 10 seconds slower than mine at Perris Raceway.

Anyway, the US mgr asked me what needed to be done to make it half way rideable at high speed and I told him I had to cut it in half and extend it around 1 1/2”, so he told the Japanese engineer that this is what we were going to do and he went bananas and immediately called the big wigs in Japan hoping that they would stop us from cutting up their shiny new $200,000 prototype, but instead of stopping us, they told the guy that we can do whatever we think is best because this is why they have a complete R and D department in the US which made the guy very unhappy, lol.

So I hacked it up the very next day, and two days later we all went back to Perris Raceway and all the US guys went much faster on it, however, the Japanese rider went even SLOWER than he had been, so in a meeting we had afterwards where all of us were in attendance, the Japanese engineer accused us of intentionally riding the unmodified bike slow, and the modified bike faster, which obviously did not go over very well with us . . After this we decided to hire an impartial, independent rider to prove to the guy that in fact we were not doing what he thought we were.

Now I had to come up with a pro level quad rider and obviously Gary Denton was one of the best and would have been ideal but I knew he was very busy plus he had a contract so it might have not been possible, but I also remembered seeing another guy at an event at the LA coliseum whom was faster than him and all the other riders that night, plus he didn’t have a contract with anyone, so I got a hold of his number from someone I knew and asked him if he wanted to come test with us and fortunately he said yes . . Unfortunately I don’t remember his name but he was really nice and great to work with.

For these tests, we went to Carlsbad in the middle of summer with no track water or grading so it was extremely nasty . . They kept lap times on both him and I, and he would go faster than my previous time so it stepped it up and went faster than he did, then he stepped it up and we went back and forth like this several times . . Well on our last rides, he cleared the big table top that is at the finish and landed on the downhill side, and anyone that has ever ridden at Carlsbad knows it takes pretty big marbles to do that on an MX bike much less a basically stock quad, so I felt a bit sick when he did that because of course I could not let all the US R and D guys down, plus I wanted to shut the engineer and his little buddy up, so I said my prayers and did the same thing [with great reluctance I might add], and at the end of the day, his lap time was only around 1/2 second faster than mine, after which point I told him that he should come ride for us once we get it into production, but I think he got a contract with Suzuki shortly after that.

Anyway, they sent him to Japan to do the final testing because they knew what I would say, especially after I made them change most of the original 86’ 3 wheeler prototype when they sent me to Japan to test that . . When he got there, they only let him test the original pos version because they said they could not make the changes I did on the bike because they had already made all the final molds . . Well I knew they certainly could have made the changes because I made them do it on the 86 T3, but that would have made the guy in charge of the project look extremely bad, not to mention it would have cost them a fortune and delay the production date by probably 6 months, but it still would have been worth it because my modified version was actually better than the Suzuki in several ways, after my mod and further development, it would have been ahead of the Suzuki in most, if not all categories when comparing them as race bikes as opposed to trail bikes.

It’s really a bummer because that cost us a few good riders and made it nearly impossible to be competitive on one, at least without making a lot of expensive mods . . Even Jimmy White gave up on it and got a Suzuki so he could be competitive . . The other bummer is that the engine and pipe that went into the production bike was the same one that was in the prototype which actually ran really well which you already know if you ever rode one with a stock engine, however, I know there was still a bit more power available if we would have had the opportunity to do some development on those two items, which along with all the other changes, would have made it a very competitive bike compared to the others.

John_Neary

07-15-2015, 10:18 PM

@barnett468 - Stock the Tecate4 was a fun little play bike but yea it was pretty hopeless on a racetrack since it was so short and narrow. Mine had the extended A-arms, longer front shocks, bump steer kit and a steering dampener and that did a good job sorting out the front end.

I have some other photos of it somewhere but they are hiding from me atm.
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On the rest of the bike i had a Calfab swingarm, full KX250 top end and all the other little tidbits to make a race bike. I was able to go fast on it but my right knee and left wrist where pretty much ruined by that point from dirt bikes and i was having trouble just finishing two motos by the end of 1988.

bkm

07-15-2015, 10:30 PM

for bkm - from August 86 3wheeling

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Thank you John. I wish I could find some more pics of this thing. So far these are the only ones I can find close up. I've got just a few more parts to gather and then I can start on my clone.

John_Neary

07-15-2015, 10:55 PM

@bkm - I will keep a eye out for more pics of Jackie's 125, i was not sure how well my flat bed scanner would deal with magazines but it seems to of done fine so ill upload any other photos i come across.

P.S. @forum mods - if there are copyright concerns with up loading content from old magazines just let me know and ill refrain from doing it :)

barnett468

07-15-2015, 11:39 PM

.

@barnett468 - Stock the Tecate4 was a fun little play bike but yea it was pretty hopeless on a racetrack since it was so short and narrow. Mine had the extended A-arms, longer front shocks, bump steer kit and a steering dampener and that did a good job sorting out the front end. On the rest of the bike i had a Calfab swingarm, full KX250 top end and all the other little tidbits to make a race bike. I was able to go fast on it but my right knee and left wrist where pretty much ruined by that point from dirt bikes and i was having trouble just finishing two motos by the end of 1988.

I have some other photos of it somewhere but they are hiding from me atm.

218578

Thanks for the reply and that’s a nice photo . . I would love to see some more if you ever find them, especially if you have any of it in the air, lol . . It is probably the only production Tecate 4 I have ever seen on a track, lol.

Yeah, if you wanted something like an ATC110 with a 250 engine and 1 extra wheel, it fit the bill and was kinda fun providing one understood that it just ain’t a race bike.

The reason I cut it in half instead of making a longer swing arm was not only to lengthen it but also to change the weight bias a little . . I did the same thing on the 86 T6 . . I could have just as easily [or more easily] lengthened the swing arm but that wouldn’t have done quite the same thing.

I was also going to widen both the front and rear by around 1 1/2” to 2” . . Making them wider than that for a production bike would have been a bit much imo for a few reasons, however, this is not to say that making it even wider than that for racing wouldn’t have been better still.

When designing and developing the vehicles, it’s harder to know where the line should be drawn with the ATV’s than it is with the MX bikes because the MX bikes are designed for racing but can be used as a trail bike so to speak if one chooses to do so, however, the high performance ATV’s are actually not designed purely for racing but are designed to be a high perf recreational vehicle that can be fairly easily turned into a race vehicle, which is one of the reasons the T 3’s didn’t have a “long” swing arm like most people used when racing them.

In fact, contrary to what some people assume, my bike that I raced at Big Bear and the LA Coliseum etc, and which I won the last big short track race at Saddleback where I beat Jimmy and the other guys [sorry, just couldn’t help sayin that because it’s the only time I beat them all at once and won the race too, lol.], had a STOCK swing arm that I reinforced as a test and also slotted the rear housing adjustment holes on so I could lengthen the track by around 3/4” . . yup, I ran all those races with a basically stock length swing arm, and since you were also a racer, I know you have an idea what that would be like.

Kawi certainly would have let me run a longer one, and I certainly would have done better at the races with it, but that would have defeated my purpose which was basically testing some things that could actually be used in production, and a 2” or 3” inch longer swing arm was out of the question . . Of course being a racer, it was definitely a little frustrating to be at a disadvantage in this regard, but I felt that since Kawi allowed me to use the bike and paid for the gas and oil and let me use the shop van etc, that it was the least I could do, especially since they already had guys that were more capable of putting Kawi’s name in the Winners Circle at the big races than I was.

John_Neary

07-16-2015, 03:14 PM

Some shots of Team Green

From Pomona Mickey Thompson,#1 is Jimmy White. Third photo is from the afternoon autograph session, Chris White in in the middle with George on the KTM and Eddie Sanders in Kawi gear seated behind Chris.
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Watsonville 84, Jimmy White #31 and Paul Woods #15.
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200cc class start at what i think is Saddleback, Chris White is out of view just behind the #44. Jimmy did not often race the 200 class so kinda cool to see him here. #91 next to Jimmy is a Cagiva, did not often see those at big races.

Stevie Wright, Tommy Gaian, Curtis Sparks, Mickey Dunlop, and the team green guys all in this race so a pretty stacked field.
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Jimmy leading Dan Lamey and Mike Coe
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onformula1

07-16-2015, 03:22 PM

Did you guys receive any surport directly from KTM?

I see you had their logos on the trikes and gear.

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

John_Neary

07-16-2015, 03:40 PM

@onformula1 - They sponsored George with some engines and parts in mid 83 when my Dad had talks with them as a result of George's performances and the press he received on the 495 earlier that year.

I remember a couple times going down to their HQ in El Cajon and picking up parts and talking with them about the races but since my 200s all had Can-Am motors I did not pay a lot of attention to the KTM stuff since that was all George's program.

onformula1

07-16-2015, 03:43 PM

Very cool, thank you for the info.

Did Can Am support you?

I know at that point they were having financial issues.

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

John_Neary

07-16-2015, 03:56 PM

@onformula1 - No support from Can-Am, whole reason we had so many Can-Am powered bikes was our local Ski-do/Can-Am dealer got stuck with a warehouse full of bikes when Can-Am closed their dirt bike division and he had already suffered a few slow years and was heavy on backstock. So we bought five or six whole bikes for less than Honda would of charged just for engines.

We messed around with some engine tuners like Harry Klemm but they all just made them worse and we left all our later Can-Am engine internals stock.

onformula1

07-16-2015, 04:03 PM

Thanks, Can Am was a real mess at that time, then they started rebadging Armstrongs for the 3-4 years which was worst.

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

John_Neary

07-16-2015, 04:09 PM

They did not break, about the only good thing i can say about the Can-Am engines.

onformula1

07-16-2015, 04:10 PM

John, I was wondering if you read the thread on this board that Chris White's daughter posted a few years back. Sorry I am on my phone and can't link to it right now.

She was looking for info and pictures and you have a lot more than we could supplier her.

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

onformula1

07-16-2015, 04:38 PM

Link

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/158596-Hi-I-m-Alysha-Chris-White-s-daughter-2-Team-Green-Kawasaki-KXT250-Tecate

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

John_Neary

07-16-2015, 04:39 PM

@onformula1 - Yes i saw her post a while back and i have posted pretty much every picture i have of Chris and made sure to mention him in the shots he is in if she happens to drop by or see this thread while doing a search of his name. I honestly cant share any personal stories or anything about Chris because he was always a really quiet, soft spoken guy and while i was around him almost every weekend for a couple years i do not think we spoke ten words to each other.

I finished second to Chris in 84 at the San Jose Nationals in the open class while riding our 495 and that was about the best race result ever for me up till that point and was i proud of myself that i kept him in sight the whole 20 laps. He was a factory guy and i was a pudgy 14 year old that everyone called "Piglet". :P

He and George had a lot of close races back in the heyday of Thursday Night racing at Corona Raceway when they would both race the MX and oval the same night and would have their own battles a half lap ahead of everyone else.

Chris on his #40 Tri Z and myself on my tecate (center) at Porterville 86

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best two grand ever spent (from 3&4 wheel action sept 86)
218612

heading to the 250 class win at Ashtabula, 86

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onformula1

07-16-2015, 04:55 PM

I tried to email her a few days ago so will see.

How fun was that Tecate?

I can't believe they sold it to you any idea where it is now?

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

bkm

07-16-2015, 05:00 PM

for bkm - from August 86 3wheeling

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Yes yes yes, thank you so much. This answers a lot of questions for me. You the man John. Btw, how bad ass waa Jimmy's old bike? I would love to know where it is today?

John_Neary

07-16-2015, 05:25 PM

I honestly forget who we sold it too but it was either a very low hours practice bike or a race bike meant for local events. His factory national bikes always had some or all of the paint removed from the engine and the bike i got had a solid black engine plus the bike i got had re valved stock suspension and not anything fancy or trick.

As weird as this sounds it was the only 84/85 gen Tecate i ever rode and i bought it from Jimmy in early 86 because i did not like my 86 Tecate and i had sold off all my Hondas. I am not sure why Jimmy picked me but it was like "hey Killer, come here. I need to sell this so tell your old man 2 grand." So it kinda just fell into my lap.

The only trick parts it had that stood out was a Calfab fuel tank (that leaked, why you can see part of the paint had to be sanded off) and Calfab swingarm. Rest of it was the normal parts you would expect on a mildly hopped up Tecate. It was clearly fast as i would catch Jimmy on his 86 factory bike every lap at Porterville with its huge straights. I did nothing more that put my numbers on the front number plate, add a Maier rear fender and took it racing. It makes me wonder how i would of done on a Klemm 200 Tecate if had one two years earlier because this bike was dialed for me from the moment i threw a leg over it.

Here is Jimmy on what i believe is the bike he sold me(my dad and his friggin red ink pens),notice all black engine and white airbox and the same Calfab fuel tank.

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Only semi good photos of my 86 Tecate, was a fun bike stock but i did not like it as a race bike.

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barnett468

07-16-2015, 06:05 PM

.
Ahhh, ha, ha . . You have discovered yet another photo with me in it [number 49 on my helmet] and one that I was once again fortunate enough to be near the front on the start [but not near enough, lol] . . Your thread is making me extremely happy I assure you.

What are the odds of someone being in the same place at the same time that I and some others here were 30 years ago and then being in the same place at the same time 30 years later and actually having photos of these events that just happen to show us in them.

The photo below is a great photo and a great example of just how hairy and basically dangerous the starts were at many of these races . . They jam 20 or more people into a turn that is only wide enough for maybe 4 because of the rear axle width and everybody wants to get there first . . It’s definitely not for the faint of heart and one mistake by a rider can easily take several others out.

Did you ride this Pomona race?

Do you know who number 19 on the Kawi next to Jimmy is, and number 7 on the Honda [Marty Hart or Dean Sundahl?] and number 5?

If you blow the photo up and look closely, you can see the number 19 Kawi next to Jimmy bottoming out the front suspension because he is on the brakes so hard . . The Honda next to 19 is doing the same thing and it looks like his rear wheels are even off the ground slightly . . The guy right behind him in the lane next to him with number 5 on his helmet has his front wheel in the air [you can tell by the height and angle of his gas tank] because he most likely ran up on the right rear wheel of the guy in front of him, lol.

For the Kawi guys that might be interested, the bike I raced was the pre production test bike which we had over 100 hours of testing on . . The only thing I replaced after the test were the rings [and maybe the piston] and the chain and brake pads . . The transmission gears and cylinder and clutch and wheel bearings, and forks and springs and rear shock etc were all left as they were and the ONLY part that ever failed was the clutch, which fortunately wasn’t during a race . . The swing arm was a stock one I modified to be around 3/4” longer . . Harry Klemm ported the STOCK Tecate cylinder and modified the head and gave me a pipe and it had a Mikuni carb and stock air filter.

It also had the same flywheel which never failed and which was the same type Donnie Luce and Chris White ran which never failed either, lol.

Basically, the bike that I raced was the least modified of any bike on the circuit and is a testament to not only the quality of the Tecate, but also to it’s ability to be competitive at the highest levels of Professional 3 Wheel Racing with only basic, minimal mods [providing one can ride it at that level], and in fact, there was not a single “works” part on any of the Tecate’s that were raced, although there were a few on some of the Hondas.

“The Tecate…The Most Powerful 3 Wheeler On Earth.”

OMG…There he goes again!

http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/l/laughing/graphics-laughing-867787.gif

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=218602&d=1437072301

atc007

07-16-2015, 06:23 PM

"hey Killer, come here. I need to sell this so tell your old man 2 grand."

That's called respect. And you had earned it John.. Maier will make us a white front fender, I have to buy 5,No go on the CR shrouds,but DC does have them. However only listed in red.. I haven't signed up with them,so I'm not sure about getting different colors from them. I have a couple "big square" Fr reservoirs, haven't had time to see if they are still fresh and good,or needing rebuilt......I had never seen Rogers bike with a #10 on it that I remember..

barnett468

07-16-2015, 06:44 PM

Here is Jimmy on what i believe is the bike he sold me(my dad and his friggin red ink pens),notice all black engine and white airbox and the same Calfab fuel tank. The only trick parts it had that stood out was a Calfab fuel tank (that leaked, why you can see part of the paint had to be sanded off) and Calfab swingarm. Rest of it was the normal parts you would expect on a mildly hopped up Tecate.

It was clearly fast as i would catch Jimmy on his 86 factory bike every lap at Porterville with its huge straights. I did nothing more that put my numbers on the front number plate, add a Maier rear fender and took it racing. It makes me wonder how i would of done on a Klemm 200 Tecate if had one two years earlier because this bike was dialed for me from the moment i threw a leg over it.

If you are referring to his 84/85 250 bike, I was out at Saddleback testing one day and he was there practicing, so I asked him if he I could ride his bike, so we swapped bikes and I tried to keep up with him on the small practice track at the back of Saddleback and that thing felt faster than my race bike, so I asked him what was done to it and he said it had a stock, unported, Tecate cylinder that I think he said was just cleaned up, and Bassani pipe.

I have known Bassani from around 1974, because the shop I worked at, which was Norm Reeves Honda/Kasaki/Bultace/Bsa/Triumph [they didn’t care what they sold, lol], used to loan him all the Honda and Kawi bikes he built pipes for, and I know he is a great pipe builder, but it just seemed unlikely to me that just a Bassani pipe alone would run just as good as a complete Klemm top end and pipe but who knows for sure . . Jimmy certainly could have been pulling my leg, but as I mentioned previously, the Tecate IS, “The Most Powerful 3 Wheeler In The Universe.”.

Oh my...there goes my kidney!

http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/l/laughing/graphics-laughing-867787.gif

John_Neary

07-16-2015, 06:46 PM

@barnett468 - I am glad you are turning up in so many of these shots, i am just getting into my stacks of old magazine so ill keep an eye out #29 and #49 on any helmets and bikes i spot. In the Pomona pic #7 is Eddie Sanders and just on the other side of Jimmy with the lightning bolts on his helmet is Mike Bergman. Cant really name the others by just their helmets and shoulders. If i am i that mess of riders i cant tell. :P

Yeah my Jimmy bike was not ultra tricked out, even had a old style round barrel Mikuni (we normally always use Keihin or Lectron) but it was really fast, faster than his 86 factory bike since i was about 20 pounds heavier than Jimmy at Porterville and still i was gaining on him on the straights.

@atc007 - Yea Roger was always 159, shot of his Honda with the CT airfoil

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That is awesome news about the fender, ill buy two of them if none are yet spoken for. PM me your paypal info or whatever when you are ready to order them. I got a list of little things i wanna do to my Rotax and the fender would not even go on in till all those are done (front end is coming off so i can do something about that chipped fork paint) so no big hurry.:)

I already spoke to DC about the radiator shrouds and that is taken care of.

atc007

07-16-2015, 07:04 PM

I have one of Rogers old 85's :).. No foil on it...:(..I'll be in touch..

onformula1

07-16-2015, 11:48 PM

Yes yes yes, thank you so much. This answers a lot of questions for me. You the man John. Btw, how bad ass waa Jimmy's old bike? I would love to know where it is today?

That's so cool, I picked up a few tips with a couple of those pics for your build.

onformula1

07-16-2015, 11:50 PM

I have one of Rogers old 85's :).. No foil on it...:(..I'll be in touch..

Post some pictures of it?

John_Neary

07-17-2015, 11:00 PM

Some random pics

Local race at Indian dunes on my 200x (#10). The Kawasaki is Paul Woods on his custom made KDX200.

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I can remember when it used to still rain here in California, Nickolson 185 at a local race.

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185s at Riverfront Raceway,my road race helmet and way, way to far forward handlebars are amusing.

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Crashing out of a good finish at the Off Road Nats in 83 after hitting the stalled rider you can just see behind me on the large over/under table top thing they had made just for that race.

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Staging at one of the Pomona Mickey Thompson races in 84, i like this shot cause you can see the extra long single side radiator on Dean's #3 factory Honda when they first started messing around the the watercooled engines.

218687

George #59 at the Score Off Road Championship in 81, it was his first big race.The #55 Kawasaki was a cool bike, it was a KX420 converted into a three wheeler and the guy led the race for a while before crashing out. I wish i had more pictures of it.

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KTM 495 at Fremont Raceway in 84, #126 is Charlie Sheppard and it was the first time i had ever raced him. His Dad Elmo was sure Charlie was gonna wipe the floor with us and he bet my Dad a tidy sum of cash on who would win. Charlie's funky little flat track bike was no match for the 495 on a 1/4 mile TT track and the race was not even close. They where good sports about it and we all remained friends, i bought all the hopup parts for my Tecate 4 from Charlie years after this photo was taken.
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Paul Woods at Big Bear.
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Tommy on the factory Honda 200cc two stroke followed by Paul Woods and myself at the off road nats in Des Moines.
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Always liked the red Tecates.
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phantomtracer

07-17-2015, 11:32 PM

John, do you have more info on Paul woods and his bike?
Also, wondering about the Kawasaki from I think Lee Rodgers?
I remember seeing these bikes in the mags and getting excited about the prospect of Kawasaki producing a race bike.

John_Neary

07-17-2015, 11:46 PM

@phantomtracer - I only know his first one had a aircooled KDX200 engine but do not know anything about the chassis or who if anyone helped him build it but he had it a good year before Kawasaki released their 250. After the KDX he raced pretty much run of the mill Tecates and i stopped seeming him at the big races around the end of 1985. I do not recall ever speaking to him in the pits or having a very close look at his bikes. Paul also had a really nice watercooled CR125 three wheeler but i have not come across any photos of it.

Lee Rodgers name rings a bell but i can remember any details about him.

atc007

07-18-2015, 07:13 AM

Take note of the amount of people in the stands alone,,,,,in 1981,,,not counting all the friends ,family and crews in the pits :). Try and fill them today at a 3 wheeler race... Stellar as always John. LMAO about Charlies Dad,and his crooked goggles. That was always a pet peeve of mine lol. After the races,,,fine,but at the start. Straighten your goggles!!

John_Neary

07-25-2015, 02:07 PM

Some 200x fun

Got my 200x when they first got released for 1983 and we had to call a bunch of dealers before we found one in stock and we picked it up on our way to a race in LA.

First day with the new 200 was a Thursday night race at Corona. We put a pipe, rear tires and a number plate on it and went racing..but if you look the pipe has already fallen off. :lol:
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I raced my 200x nearly every weekend and remember it being super reliable.
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The 200x is a great flat track bike.
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We used to always race two or more classes back in those days.
218958

*for atc007*
Next time you talk to Jeff at Maier tell him to check their 1986 catalog...im the guy on the quad. :lol:
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atc300r

07-26-2015, 08:53 PM

John did you use any type of lowering link on the rear of your 200x.

John_Neary

07-26-2015, 09:28 PM

onformula1

07-26-2015, 10:17 PM

^ That intake boot looks like it is off the 370-400cc engine that had a reed valve.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/1990-ATK-406-Rubber-carburetor-holder-intake-boot-joint-90-/201147672025?hash=item2ed555e5d9

They fit a 38mm carb too.

John_Neary

07-26-2015, 10:48 PM

Poco Loco

07-26-2015, 10:49 PM

Toaster556

07-26-2015, 10:50 PM

John, I see you ran a Maier low profile fender on your Quadracer. Did you ever have any problems with it? Any more quadracer pics?

That manifold adapter on the Rotax is a work of art, I also can't believe that Lectron bowl isn't discoloured!

onformula1

07-26-2015, 10:56 PM

@onformula1 - I was gonna order this one - http://jbmindustries.com/912socket.html

The holes are 75mm from center of bolt to bolt and with the jbmindustries version the backplate is steel so it will be easy to machine the notch to clear the bolt holding on the aluminum manifold.

219007

The amount machined off the one currently on the bike is more than it needs.

219006

Looks like a perfect fit, it's amazing that those Rotax/Bombardier engines have that kind of interchangeability.

Go Kart, Ultra Lights, Snow mobiles, dirt bikes, street bikes, trikes. Many parts can be swapped around.

John_Neary

07-26-2015, 11:05 PM

John_Neary

07-26-2015, 11:08 PM

@Toaster556 - They would drag on the tires but i never could ride with the high stock fenders so we would just replace them often. I have a few Quadracer pics ill upload in the couch section later but my Dad was more focused on his stop watches than the cameras by the time i started racing quads so there are only a few photos of them besides whats in the old magazines.

This 80s racing page needs more 80s racing..

One of my Dad's weird front tire ideas, i believe the front tire and brake was off a scooter and the forks are off a XR200.

219016

Carnegie cyclepark 1982, my trophee was taller than George's so chubby kid is pleased with himself.

219011 219012 219013

219014 219015 219018

On soil like the photo below (Hangtown OHV) it worked well but on hardpack or bluegroove it would just push and we only used this setup for a few races before changing to a 82 ATC250r front end that worked well.

219017

onformula1

07-26-2015, 11:50 PM

219010

After removing the sideguard for the airfilter and carb i got to thinking...you could put any Rotax motor you wanted into that frame and the only thing requiring any fabrication would be making an exhaust pipe. I love that you can remove the engine without having to remove the swing arm pivot bolt.

But there is only one engine i would want. ;)

219009

Rotax 250 is exotic and cool but the KTM495 was a legend even in its own time.

The KTM495 still is a legend-
1981 KTM 495
This was the first model year for the Great White. This was also the year that Dirt Bike magazine had it flat out at 123.75mph (200km/h) at the El Mirage dry lake.

The 1981 model is known to be the fastest of them all. It didn't have a reed valve intake. A very long intake manifold and a small exhaust volume contributing to the overall power output at high rpm. Due to this setup, the engine was capable to overrev without losing too much power. It was the lightest 495 ever made; this was the reason why this bike could reach this enormous top speed. One year later KTM added some ponies, but at lower rpm. The head had the twin spark plug. The idea was to get a more complete combustion despite the huge volume. The compression was 14:1. The front fork was a 38mm conventional Marzocchi unit. The rear shock was Öhlins or WP piggybacks, except the US model that was equipped with FOX air shocks. It had the typical rear fender with number plates. Drum brakes both front and rear. This bike is very rare and the twin shock setup makes it qualified for certain vintage classes and therefore it holds a high value.

Toaster556

07-27-2015, 12:11 AM

John_Neary

07-27-2015, 12:20 AM

KTM 550..because more is better

219019

onformula1

07-27-2015, 12:26 AM

Oh, you want to go big?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GiRtQZlnbw

John_Neary

07-27-2015, 12:33 AM

Those are cool but i am a loyal KTM guy :P

Orangecnty250r

07-27-2015, 08:58 AM

More work on the Rotax cleaning it and replace the rubber bits that are crumbling and falling apart while i can still find the parts. The newest thing needing replacement is the carb intake flange is cracked, seems a pretty standard Rotax part but it has a small bit of machining to clear part of the custom intake manifold so gotta sort that out.
219005

Disassembled the 38mm Lectron powerjet carb yesterday, everything was good with it but i wanna replace the gaskets before i put it back on.
219001 219002 219003 219004

@atc300r - We did use lowering links on our 85 Honda 250s and on my Quadracers but on the 200x i believe i would back off the preload on the spring and used a steel cable that had an eye bolt on each end and i would use that to limit the travel. Would only do this on tracks with no jumps.

It was ghetto but worked, here is a even more low budget version on my Can-am 400 :D
219000

Nice. Your threads make me want me to ride in a time capsule back to the 80s more than ever!!!! I took my custom aluminum intake to several machine shops to have an extra one made. I even met with one guy that has been doing it for 30 years AND interested in doing work for me. They are all dumbfounded by the complexity of the round inner radius etc. No one has had the balls to take it on! Kelvin was the man!!!

Joseph Farrow

07-27-2015, 01:09 PM

I've seen Tom run at Ashtabula. To be a big guy he could haul @ss. Tom is also an awesome engine builder. He was always getting out of the box.

This is one of the best threads I've seen on any forum. I only have 1 pic to contribute.

While at pine lake I was hangin in the ATC Boy's pit after the races and have a cocktail while who walks in, it was Tom Carlson of TC Racing. He had some old pics of him racing at Pine Lake back in the 80's.
He was kind enough to give them away and sign them. Pretty cool. Every body got a pic and none were the same. he brought about 5 or 6 pics.

Here's the one I chose. 219008

Joseph Farrow

07-27-2015, 01:14 PM

Cool to see the mix of machines. Tri Moto's to ATC 90's. Even looks like a "Chick on a Tri Moto" on far right.

@Toaster556 - They would drag on the tires but i never could ride with the high stock fenders so we would just replace them often. I have a few Quadracer pics ill upload in the couch section later but my Dad was more focused on his stop watches than the cameras by the time i started racing quads so there are only a few photos of them besides whats in the old magazines.

This 80s racing page needs more 80s racing..

One of my Dad's weird front tire ideas, i believe the front tire and brake was off a scooter and the forks are off a XR200.

219016

Carnegie cyclepark 1982, my trophee was taller than George's so chubby kid is pleased with himself.

219011 219012 219013

219014 219015 219018

On soil like the photo below (Hangtown OHV) it worked well but on hardpack or bluegroove it would just push and we only used this setup for a few races before changing to a 82 ATC250r front end that worked well.

219017

John_Neary

07-27-2015, 04:16 PM

Some randoms from George's albums

Not sure what race this is but i would guess it is spring 1983. Shot of the 495 with the seat off and my 82 250r. My 250r was a nice bike built mostly out of spare parts left over from George's race bikes. It came to a sad and sudden end when it blew the engine...and by that i mean it blew the cylinder clear off the lower cases after it cracked and broke just below the intake port. I wont publicly shame who ported the cylinder but he got a ear full after costing us an engine.

219020

Indian Dunes, 1983
219021

George and his XR500 on the gas
219022 219023

San Jose 83
Marty Hart #5 (notice the beadlock wheels),Paul Woods #13,Dan Lamey #47
219024

Someone was asking about this bike in the Franks thread, i came across a photo of it in one of my old magazines.
219025

*caution small rant below*

Man is it frustrating dealing with these Rotax/Can-Am parts people. I have emailed and or called a half dozen of them since last week and i have yet to get a single one of them to pick up their phone or return my email just asking a simple question like "do you have this part?" "do you ship to my country?".

Such flakes.

onformula1

07-27-2015, 05:16 PM

So very cool-

1986 KTM 500 MXC trike conversion by Phillips Martin Lesure with a White Power leading link front end, great trike for the Verona Beach Races.

Cool picture, thanks

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

onformula1

07-27-2015, 05:23 PM

As for your rant, please hang in there I know your pain and it's not fun.

My advise is phone calls seem to be better, a middle man that specializes in restorations will have better contacts with these places, most of these guys are older and many are anti email and website, most of these guys do this as a second job or are retired, If you can get out to a ARMA Race you can make a lot of contacts, also don't be afraid to tell them who you are, a bit of your accomplishments, and your goal...Getting people on "Team Neary" is important.

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

barnett468

07-27-2015, 06:14 PM

.

*caution small rant below*

Man is it frustrating dealing with these Rotax/Can-Am parts people. I have emailed and or called a half dozen of them since last week and i have yet to get a single one of them to pick up their phone or return my email just asking a simple question like "do you have this part?" "do you ship to my country?".

Such flakes.

So, a confessed Rotax lover eh? . . My friends dad whom was named Neil Fearing, was a Can Am, Norstar, and Munari distributor in Anaheim . . He sponsored me with some stuff over the years, and one year, he sold me a 250MX just like the one below at cost, which I think was around $1,000.00 at the time . . It was a beautiful bike and I raced it box stock and it was really good . . The only complaint I had was that it did not have quite enough top end which of course could have been easily remedied but I left it as it was.

If you were ever at Can Am or maybe it was ATK in so cal, you might have seen his son whom was one of my best friends . . His name was Keith and he worked in Rand D there . . He later went out on his own and built the Avenger Motorcycles.

It is also possible that he might know some people that have old Can Am parts, so you could give him a ring at his site below . . Tell him I said hi if you do.

I also saw Jimmy Ellis win the Superbowl on his 250 in LA in the late 70’s.

This is Keiths site.

http://www.americandirtbike.com/pictures.htm

.................................................. ..................This is Keith with the bike he builds.

.........................................http://www.americandirtbike.com/_borders/AveKth11.jpg

This is the one I had . . Notice the hole in the top of the rear number plate . . That is so you could stand on the left side then stick your hand in the hole and pick it up so you could put it on the milk crate you "borrowed" from behind the local supermarket.
.
.................................................. ...........http://i22.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/d6/5e/5ace_1.JPG
.

Orangecnty250r

07-27-2015, 06:15 PM

I just spoke with Tony Murphy last week. He doesn't pick up every time but he is still very reliable.

John_Neary

07-27-2015, 06:27 PM

Thanks, ill try Tony Murphy next since RTRmoto is sold out of both the items i need (but cant be bothered to update his website to say out of stock). Matt at Speed&Sport is gonna make me a new clutch cable using the old one for parts, has a nasty spot where a bit melted from the pipe and it makes the cable pull very rough so really just needs a new sheath.

I am avoiding all of the ATK part dealers since none of that is the correct time period parts and i am trying to keep my Rotax as original as possible by buying 1982-1983 Rotax/Can-Am stuff.

barnett468

07-27-2015, 06:32 PM

.
There's a few vintage Can Am parts places here too in case you didn't see any if them yet.

https://www.google.com/search?q=vintage+can+am+parts&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

John_Neary

07-27-2015, 06:45 PM

Thanks, RTRmoto just emailed me back saying the kickstart lever has been discontinued by Rotax so ill just have to keep a eye on ebay for the style i am after. I have a gearshift coming, the thing i really need since the old one is MIA, so im glad that is out of the way. Since it uses orings instead of gaskets it should be safe to remove the head and have a look inside to make sure the cylinder wall is corrosion free so i am gonna do that and flush the radiators next.

Thinking of having the radiators sent off for some mild repair, the right side one has a bunch of bent fins that are a eye sore.

Red Rider

07-27-2015, 06:51 PM

Notice the hole in the top of the rear number plate . . That is so you could stand on the left side then stick your hand in the hole and pick it up so you could put it on the milk crate you "borrowed" from behind the local supermarket.Actually, that hole is where FMX riders hold onto the bike when they do a maneuver called a "superman seat-grab." :rolleyes:

onformula1

07-27-2015, 06:56 PM

These guy do unreal radiator repair, they can fix a pretzel

http://www.motorcycleradiators.com

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

barnett468

07-27-2015, 07:11 PM

.

Actually, that hole is where FMX riders hold onto the bike when they do a maneuver called a "superman seat-grab." :rolleyes:

Oh, yeah, that's right, silly me, I do remember seeing several people doing that during the MX races on their 1981 Can Am's.

Hey Barn...did they do the knack knack on them Can Ams too?

http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/l/laughing/graphics-laughing-867787.gif

barnett468

07-27-2015, 07:18 PM

.

Actually, that hole is where FMX riders hold onto the bike when they do a maneuver called a "superman seat-grab." :rolleyes:

Yes, I saw the "FMX" riders do it on their Can Ams also. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing013.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

Orangecnty250r

07-27-2015, 07:18 PM

Tony not only can get new parts but he has a ton of used parts.

John_Neary

07-27-2015, 07:19 PM

@onformula1 - thanks, that was who i had in mind to repair them after looking over their site last night.

I am gonna look up a parts PDF for the 83 Can-Am MX line so i can get the correct part numbers before i call Tony.

mhor pics

219026 219027

219028 219029

219030 219031

barnett468

07-27-2015, 07:28 PM

.
John, I know Gary Jones the ex Can Am factory rider [was even fortunate enough to beat him once at Ascot Raceway] , and know that he and another guy named Steve Jones race Can Am’s at the vintage races, so I called him an hour ago and asked if he knew where to get vintage parts for those and he said Steve knows a few places and told me how to contact him, so if you want to contact Steve, just let me know and I will forward the info.

John_Neary

07-27-2015, 07:59 PM

@barnett468 - Ah man i miss Ascot, that place at night when the fog would roll in and make the soil all moist and loamy was epic.

I do not have part numbers yet so give me a couple days to round up those and then ill PM them to you. The more i work on this the more i wanna see the bike up and running, that means inspecting cylinder and clutch and likely replacing the clutch springs at the least. I have no clue where Kelvin sourced the motor from nor the year and model for the cylinder and head so im concerned about the orings if they have turned to plastic.

I have a new spark plug cap coming, once i get that i need to check and make sure the motoplat still has spark. Score a ND W27ES-Zu spark plug new in the box off ebay, same plug that is in it but i do not really trust a three decade old spark plug. :lol:

onformula1

07-27-2015, 08:54 PM

Cool pics for the rotax

http://www.racebikemart.com/adverts/rotax_244_engine__1413390003.php

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barnett468

07-27-2015, 09:15 PM

.

@barnett468 - Ah man i miss Ascot, that place at night when the fog would roll in and make the soil all moist and loamy was epic.

So you raced there too, xlnt . . What years did you race there and what did you ride?

I raced Motocross there on my 125 Honda and 250 Bultaco along with my friend Mike Raines when we were both sponsored by Dave Miller around 1977 . . Gary Denton and lots of other big names were there too . . I raced there again on a Suzuki Quad around 1985 when I was working at Kawi R and D.

My sister, whom actually looked pretty hot in the 70’s went out with Roger Agajanian a few times but quickly dumped him, lol.

I do not have part numbers yet so give me a couple days to round up those and then ill PM them to you.
Ok, I can check with some other people I know too . . I don’t actually know Steve, I just know Gary, but you can contact Steve directly yourself if you want . . He’s just another cool Motorcycle guy, and Gary said Steve shouldn’t mind if you call, just tell Steve that Gary Jones suggested you call him . . It’s pretty hard to turn down a call from someone Gary Jones refers . . I actually thought it was Gary's son that answered when I called because Gary still sounds like he’s 16, lol.

If you don’t want to call him, I will be happy to do it for you . . He works at American Honda in a similar department that two of my others friends work in, so I can ask him how they are doing at the same time and maybe even get some secret photos of the ATC500r prototype from them. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing013.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

The more i work on this the more i wanna see the bike up and running, that means inspecting cylinder and clutch and likely replacing the clutch springs at the least. I have no clue where Kelvin sourced the motor from nor the year and model for the cylinder and head so im concerned about the orings if they have turned to plastic.

I wouldn’t reuse the O rings even if they still seemed pliable and I wouldn’t worry about them . . There are over a zillion different sizes of O rings available, and I will be happy to find some for you that will work if you want, and they will be the correct material . . All I need is the od and id of the O ring groove . . The approximate thickness of the 0 ring would also be helpful but not necessary.

This place has over 8,000 different O rings in US sizes, Metric sizes, and non standard sizes.

http://www.applerubber.com/products/o-rings.cfm

I have a new spark plug cap coming, once i get that i need to check and make sure the motoplat still has spark.

It won’t…they rarely did when they were new, lol . . Actually it is likely ok and I never had one on my on Bultaco or other Motoplat bikes go out.

Score a ND W27ES-Zu spark plug new in the box off ebay, same plug that is in it but i do not really trust a three decade old spark plug. :lol:

I can assure you with 100% certainty that as long as it did not get dropped causing the porcelain to crack, it will be fine because there is nothing on there to decay with age.

John_Neary

07-27-2015, 09:58 PM

I only raced Ascot a few times, i believe it was Friday nights they would have the night motocrosses there and i raced it a few times in 85 and 86. I was friends with Terry Varner, Bryan Fry and some of the other Ascot locals so it was always a nice place to be. I never got to race there on a motocross bike, by the time i got half way decent on a dirt bike all the fun places like Saddleback, Corona, Indian Dunes and Ascot had shut down.

Atm the only Can-Am/Rotax stuff i need is a clutch cable and the swept forward kickstarter, onformula1 posted some good info on the engine so i at least now know its a "Rotax 250 WC" when i go to look for rings, seals or clutch parts. I agree the orings need to be replaced in any event.

The spark plug has a few spots of rust so i wanted a replacement in any case and the one i bought was only $5 with free shipping.

onformula1

07-27-2015, 11:34 PM

Here's some in from a owner of that engine-

I don't know his name for credit.

I have a Rotax type 244 kart motor that’s based on the motocross engine but with water-cooling, close ratio 6-speed from the 256 twin cylinder, internal rotor Motoplat ignition and lightened crankshaft, supposed to make around 40HP.

John_Neary

07-28-2015, 12:19 AM

He is right about the close ratio 6-speed, i remember the engine had a crazy short power band so only that transmission would of worked.

Took the radiators off and flushed them out, no corrosion but holy cow is 32 year old radiator fluid some nasty smelling stuff. Looking down into the coolant area of the cylinder jug it is nasty in there and for sure has to be taken off and cleaned.

Took the custom splitter thing off that goes from the cylinder head to the radiators, gonna clean it up.

219042 219043 219044

onformula1

07-28-2015, 12:27 AM

Of course your cylinder was rotated 180 degrees.

It looks pretty clean, I have seen much, much worst.

onformula1

07-28-2015, 12:29 AM

I always thought the lack of water pump was cool, percolator coffee pot style

atc007

07-28-2015, 07:50 AM

It's about time for the Star! Thanx Admin :) :)

ctk

07-28-2015, 02:02 PM

This is the best thread on 3ww!!

John_Neary

07-28-2015, 03:07 PM

onformula1

07-28-2015, 03:18 PM

I always strip every radiator for better cooling, it is also easier to spot a leak, but striped is not very nostalgic.

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John_Neary

07-28-2015, 04:15 PM

Just got off the phone with Tony Murphy, really nice guy and it sounds like my engine was sourced from him since Kelvin bought all his Rotax engines from Tony back in the day so he has a good idea already what parts work with it. Base gaskets, clutch parts, rings, wrist pin clip are all standard Rotax 250 stuff that he has in stock and only the piston,crank and internal ignition parts would be hard to replace.

Knowing i can get a base gasket and rings makes me feel a lot better about taking off the top end and having a look inside to see what if any damage sitting so long has done. So i figure at the least i should plan on replacing the rings, wrist clips, head and base gaskets and the clutch pack since the one in the bike has half a season of races on it.

Gotta remember not to have two cups of coffee before calling Tony next time... so excited to finally get a Rotax parts guy on the phone i was talking a mile a minute.:lol:

oile

07-28-2015, 04:21 PM

That is awesome news John I hope you get it back in top shape. That is my dream 3wheeler you have I hope someday I will be able to find one.

barnett468

07-28-2015, 04:28 PM

i feel so fancy with the star by my name

@onformula1 - I called Myler's and they quoted me $45 to straighten all the fins and repaint the radiators (they just have a few bare spots mostly where the radiator hoses mount. Now i am wondering if having all the paint removed would be better, silver radiators look kinda cool.

@ctk :)

John, as far as straightening the fins, you can do that with the exact same tool they use.

http://www.amazon.com/Allstar-ALL10680-Radiator-Fin-Comb/dp/B006K8GKBO

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61WDOP3qC-L._SX522_.jpg

I like the idea of going natural, however, imo, they won’t look great after they are stripped due to their age and/or the finish on the orig material . . If I went natural, I would get them anodized . . You can get this done In different colors or you can get a semi gloss or chrome like finish.

Also, anodizing will increase their ability to cool by a noticeable amount and they will cool better than if you painted them with a high emissivity thermal coating.

http://www.mark7radiators.com/anodized-aluminum-radiator.shtml

This is what a semi gloss finish would look like.

http://www.4wheelparts.com/aux_incl/images.ashx?i=NOR205054.jpg&partNo=4WD&w=330&h=330

http://www.4wheelparts.com/Heating-Cooling/Aluminum-Radiator-for-GM-V8-Engines.aspx?t_c=84&t_s=518&t_pt=5111&t_pn=NOR205054&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping&emlprox=out&ppcfon=1&gp=1&gclid=CMykitjQ_sYCFUdhfgodrw4K1g

John_Neary

07-28-2015, 04:44 PM

I am gonna stick with the Honda flat black and just have them straighten the fins and touch up the paint. If i want silver ill buy a set of Myler's house brand radiators.

Orangecnty250r

07-28-2015, 09:31 PM

John_Neary

07-29-2015, 04:30 PM

sigh, well i got the head off and since the base studs for the cylinder are like a foot long so the bolts attach up by the head i figured gotta now take off the cylinder since the base gasket likely needs replacing and &^T@&$ the cylinder cant slide off the long base studs with out hitting the frame...so engine has to come out to remove the cylinder....brilliant!

now i gotta get my hands on someone who can help me get the engine out

atc007

07-29-2015, 04:42 PM

Wish I was closer... I'm sure George doesn't have anything better to do :) :)

John_Neary

07-29-2015, 04:53 PM

George is grumpy when it is this hot so ill look for a more willing helper, i got a while since i had to order some tools that i am lacking namely a chain breaker,torque wrench and a 22mm socket for removing the rear engine bolt. Only the three engine mount bolts and the chain still holding the engine in atm.

P.S. sorry for no pics in the last page or so but the server is acting up and brings up a error when i try to upload so once that is fixed i got some photos sorted and ready.

barnett468

07-29-2015, 05:07 PM

.

sigh, well i got the head off and since the base studs for the cylinder are like a foot long so the bolts attach up by the head i figured gotta now take off the cylinder since the base gasket likely needs replacing and &^T@&$ the cylinder cant slide off the long base studs with out hitting the frame...so engine has to come out to remove the cylinder....brilliant!

now i gotta get my hands on someone who can help me get the engine out

If the studs will clear the frame by pulling them straight up, and the base of the stud is not larger than the rest of the stud, you can simply remove the studs by locking two nuts together on them then unscrewing them . . I've doe this many times.
.

John_Neary

07-29-2015, 05:16 PM

@barnett468 - I already tried that and they wont budge using a normal size wrench and it is not worth risking the threads in the case since i wanna pull the motor out in any event so i can properly seal the clutch case with Yamabond after having a look inside and cleaning stuff up (gonna replace the clutch springs at the least).

Whoever put it together used some crappy blue and red permatex and made a mess of the job. No case gaskets on the Rotax so want it out and right in front of me when i go to put it back together.

Gonna call Tony now and order the intake, exhaust and base gaskets,a head gasket o-ring and see if he has anything in mind for the water jacket o-ring and piston ring.

*edit* just got off the phone with Tony and he has everything i need in stock so that is awesome, i am gonna measure the diameter of the piston and the waterjacket o-ring just so we are sure on sizing.

I told him you guys here speak well of him and he got a kick out of that. :)

barnett468

07-30-2015, 06:11 PM

.
Hey John, I just signed up for Cycle News Magazine online [that I mentioned to you earlier] for the decade of 1980 thru 1989 hoping they would have some 3 wheeler results, and searched a few people’s names including mine and yours, and found both of us in several editions, but I only found motorcycle results so far . . I searched for Jimmie White also and nothing came up.

I looked up one of the editions you were in for a 250 race at Glen Helen on September 10th 1989 . . You were battling it out with two guys named Phil Butler and Eric Casas . . I thought it was pretty cool.

I found one with me getting 3rd behind Tim Lunde and Brian Ellis at OCIR in the 500 class . . I’ll be happy with that any day of the week . . Tim won both Pro classes that night and his brother Chuck was also really fast . . They were both local legends.

I can tell you what editions you were in if you want but unfortunately I can’t copy any of the text from them.

John_Neary

07-30-2015, 07:49 PM

@barnett468 - Yeah i remember Eric Casas, we raced against each other during the CMC GoldenState series in the 500cc class on dirt bikes. I really enjoyed racing both the TransCal and GoldenState series, Stu Peters ran a great program back in those days. Made some nice coin off sponsor contingency in 89 and 90 racing the 250 and 500 classes.

barnett468

07-30-2015, 09:03 PM

.

@barnett468 - Yeah i remember Eric Casas, we raced against each other during the CMC GoldenState series in the 500cc class on dirt bikes. I really enjoyed racing both the TransCal and GoldenState series, Stu Peters ran a great program back in those days. Made some nice coin off sponsor contingency in 89 and 90 racing the 250 and 500 classes.

xlnt, yeah those were fun . . Did you ever race a Motorcycle at Saddleback or Carlsbad?

I rode one of his Golden State races at Saddleback and one at Carlsbad, but that was in the late 70’s when I was still young, lol . . They were often different dates than the AMA races, so lot’s of big name AMA guys like Galon Mosier [whom my girlfriend liked], Jeff Jennings, Warren Reid and Gary Denton etc, and all the local legends like the Lunde and Gillman brothers and Val Tamietti etc, would all show up.

I remember the first time I ever went down Bonzai Hill, otherwise known as ”The Drop of Death” . . It was in a Golden State, Open Pro Race, and I was on a full blown factory FMF, 370 Suzuki I got from them because their AMA rider destroyed his shoulder and couldn’t ride for at least 6 months.

I usually got killer starts on all my bikes [then slowly worked my way backwards, lol] so I was around 3rd or 4th at the top of the hill, which was almost even with 1st and 2nd, then we made the sharp left, and suddenly…there it was . . Well being in front of 30 other 500’s didn’t leave me many options, so I twisted the throttle and actually landed at the very bottom, at which time, my unmentionables and maybe my hip bones SLAMMED into the gas tank as my suspension bottomed out and actually left 2 dents in it . . My stomach immediately felt less than happy which lasted for several laps . . Fortunately, I never had to go down Bonzai Hill again, lol.

yaegerb

07-30-2015, 09:52 PM

This is one of the best threads I've seen on any forum. I only have 1 pic to contribute.

While at pine lake I was hangin in the ATC Boy's pit after the races and have a cocktail while who walks in, it was Tom Carlson of TC Racing. He had some old pics of him racing at Pine Lake back in the 80's.
He was kind enough to give them away and sign them. Pretty cool. Every body got a pic and none were the same. he brought about 5 or 6 pics.

Here's the one I chose. 219008

Catching up on this whole thread. How flippin' cool that you got a signed pic from Tom Carlson. I was just on the phone with him not long ago. I had no idea he was that big of a guy.....gives me hope! ;)

John_Neary

08-01-2015, 02:28 PM

nice to have screenshots working again, thank you Billy :)

First shot is George at Fremont Raceway, second photo is of Dan Lamey on the custom 250R built for him by Rob Selvy. Middle three are just some randoms. My 200 broke and i got a tow back to our pits from this full size tow truck, gave my Dad a laugh.
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84 Off Road Nats in Iowa was a total disaster for me, we had no mud tires and i got food poisoning. We brought four bikes with us to race but after the first heat my Dad could see i was in no shape to race and he loaded everything up and we drove home.
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Cleaning the Rotax up a bit more.
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The Rotax cleaning station...in my living room :lol:
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xrider

08-01-2015, 02:40 PM

Head looks great John!

John_Neary

08-01-2015, 03:07 PM

@xrider - Thanks! Lot of WD40 and scrubbing :)

yaegerb

08-01-2015, 03:38 PM

So, not a rotax expert in the least. What are those "pockets" for around the head chamber? Extra cooling?

John_Neary

08-01-2015, 04:07 PM

@yaegerb - It is liquid cooled so those chambers are where the coolant will flow around to pull the heat away. It is larger than normal due to the type of cooling system the engine uses that did not include a high speed water pump so it needed a lot more fluid than say a 85 250R or Tecate engine does.

barnett468

08-01-2015, 04:35 PM

.
John, I see the head was made in Western Australia, do you know much about it?

Just curious, do you know how much compression it had?

It also looks like the squish band has a very steep angle to it which would suggest the top of the piston might have a steep crown or high dome to maintain a good squish clearance, but if it didn't ping, which it must not have, then it's good enough.

I like your "In house" work station, lol.

John_Neary

08-01-2015, 04:59 PM

@barnett468 - The motor is a mystery to me for the most part, the bike was already built when we bought it and Kelvin sourced all the parts. Tony Murphy knows all about it though, Kelvin bought his Rotax motors from Tony. My Dad ran race gas in all our bikes, either SoCal blue or Trick Racing fuel, so he would often have the heads milled for max compression (usually around 205psi).

I will post some pics of the piston, clutch and ignition once i have the motor out (waiting on a few tools).

I never raced a dirt bike at Saddleback but i did get the ride the 1984 KTM125 there that we would later steal the motor from for a Franks three wheeler and it was fun but i was a total beginner so i just puttered around. I was not a natural on dirt bikes and it took me a few years to get semi fast.

I did race at Carlsbad a few times, mostly just for the big CMC races, and it was not my favorite track. Had a weird, slick surface that was not very enjoyable when mixed with steep hills and square edge bumps. Also getting in and out of the place was a nightmare.

Costa Mesa speedway
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randoms
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oile

08-01-2015, 06:11 PM

John what's the story with these tire/ Rims you have?219160

John_Neary

08-01-2015, 06:32 PM

oile - In the early 80s the open class was a pretty big deal and we had a number of dirt bike engine powered three wheelers. That bike George is sitting on is a highly modified XR500 that Rob Selvy built for us that had a ungodly amount of power and my Dad felt the small 8 inch rim tires of the day held the powerful bikes back so he was trying out different tires off other types of vehicles.

Those tires there are likely front tires off a pavement Sprint car but we also tried out smaller sized airplane tires as fronts and we would groove them by hand with good results. My Dad would buy the wheels that had no bolt holes in them meant for the full size cars the he would drill atc hub size holes by hand.

The big tires worked well but the added weight of the jumbo wheels was an issue and my older brother George who did most the racing with them was glad when we got sponsored by Carlisle and he got to use normal tires again. :P

Couple shots of our shop and trailer back then.
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barnett468

08-01-2015, 06:40 PM

.

My Dad ran race gas in all our bikes, either SoCal blue or Trick Racing fuel, so he would often have the heads milled for max compression (usually around 205psi).

I never raced a dirt bike at Saddleback but i did get the ride the 1984 KTM125 there that we would later steal the motor from for a Franks three wheeler and it was fun but i was a total beginner so i just puttered around.

I did race at Carlsbad a few times, mostly just for the big CMC races, and it was not my favorite track. Had a weird, slick surface that was not very enjoyable when mixed with steep hills and square edge bumps. Also getting in and out of the place was a nightmare.

Great stories and thanks for the info.

Now...Come on, Carlsbad was bitchen, lol . . It was so hard in the dry season, the tires would leave blue/black marks on the surface just like some areas of Saddleback, and it was so muddy in the wet season that it was hard to make one lap, let alone get up the big hill . . There were several times when it was so muddy that riders that didn’t maintain enough momentum on the approach to the big uphill couldn’t get up it, so they had to go backwards on the track and try again . . I saw as many as four riders stuck at the bottom of that hill on more than one occasion, lol.

Oh, and trying to stop at the bottom of the big downhill in the mud was a joke . . I learned to start slowing early and stay near the left side of the track, so if someone was behind me, I would gladly let them by, but they would have to pass me on the outside and accelerate as they passed, and maybe 9 times out of 10, this would cause them to overshoot the turn . . I must have done this to dozens of guys that didn’t know better and it was hilarious to watch.

I actually hated mud racing, but for some reason that is unknown to me, I would usually win or place in the top 3 in most every mud race, and I seriously don’t know why, but one thing I didn't do was get excited and over rev in the mud because I tried that and quickly learned that using less throttle would get me thru it faster . . Another advantage might have been that my bike didn't have a toggle switch power band . . It was a 1974 250 Bultaco ported to AMA National specs by Phil Nyland with a matching pipe.

I raced one big quad race there in late 84 or early 85, and I think it was a GNG or something similar . . The usual crowd was there, and I’m pretty sure Gary Denton was also there, and I liked it on the quads too, but definitely preferred to ride Motorcycles on that track instead because it was so friggen nasty.

I, and another rider I hired, were testing the new modified Tecate 4 wheeler prototype there one day and he finally ended up clearing the table top jump at the finish, so of course I then had to do it too, which I did, but I definitely wasn’t anxious too, lol . . I would easily clear it every lap on a bike but it was quite a bit more hairy doing it on a quad.

I hit the table top next to the parking lot at Perris so hard one day while testing the new prototype quad that it shot me off to the right so much, I actually hung one, or both, front wheels on the top of the fence as I continued on to clear the jump without the bike . . I’m glad Kawi had a good health insurance plan.
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John_Neary

08-01-2015, 06:50 PM

onformula1

08-01-2015, 07:18 PM

John, did you ever ride or race the Mammoth Mountain Motocross?

Or AMA Motocross or GP's?

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

John_Neary

08-01-2015, 07:57 PM

No i never made it to Mammoth, wish i had. I was not nearly fast enough for national level races, i could run the pace of the local experts but i was to big and had to many injuries to ever get real pro speed. I really enjoyed riding dirt bikes and just going out and free riding was as much fun as racing to me.

I started late on dirt bikes, my 85 CR250 was the first bike i raced and i did not get even remotely fast in till around 89.

George on his XR500 at a Lucerne Valley desert race, the Can-Am in the background would become a three wheeler not long after this shot.
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Our local track, Cycleland Speedway, had a awesome little TT track layout
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barnett468

08-01-2015, 08:18 PM

I only raced Perris twice and liked it but it was either CMC or GFI in those days and GFI was So Cal only and so CMC was more my thing. One reason i never got on with Carlsbad was I only got to ride there on race days and the track would be in such crap state because they would get 500 or 600 riders for the GoldenState races back then.

My favorite So Cal tracks to ride dirt bikes back in those days was De Anza Cycle Park, Adelanto Raceway and the hills in Norco behind Bill's Pipes shop. Saddleback, Indian Dunes, Corona Racway and Ascort where all gone by the time i got really into motocross (1988).

That’s too bad about the tracks closing, you probably would have liked Saddleback in the winter when the track wasn’t all dried out . . It was far less abusive then Carlsbad which suit me fine . . I was definitely not a fan of Carlsbad at first either, but my girlfriend held AMC Motocross races there twice a month so I got as used to it as someone could from riding those races.

I used to race TT on Motorcycles at Perris also, and I loved that track, even though I think you beat me there the time we were both there, lol.

I liked De Anza and the big right hand sweeper at the end of the start . . I saw Kenny Zhart fall off during practice there one day and get his arm chewed up a bit in the chain because his bike was still running and it fell on top of him . . Kawi did a promotional video with me riding the water cooled 250 Mojave there but I never saw it . . I was mainly doing doughnuts because that’s what the director wanted, then he had me stop and gaze at the waning sun as the dust cloud slowly cleared . . I never made it to Hollywood, lol, however, Steve Strickland whom used to run the Jet Ski division for Team Green did . . He left Kawi and eventually coordinate jet ski stunts for the movies . . He organized all the stunts for Kevin Kostners, Water World . . It was a brilliant move for him because he knew all the best riders in the world from his job at Kawi and running the races, so all he had to do was simply call whomever he wanted and use them because they already knew all the tricks etc, lol.

Corona was close for me so I raced there a lot at night on bikes and 3 wheelers, but I also liked the Grand Prixs they had a lot . . I raced GP’s there and at Glen Helen and at Palmdale Raceway, and was lucky enough to win most of those which was probably because I would set a moderate pace after going fast for a few laps, which might have lulled the guys behind me into thinking that was all I had so they thought they could easily pass me near the end, then the last two laps I would go as fast as I could, lol.

I never raced Indian Dunes because it was not only too far to drive to for a night race, it was also a sandy course, and I could probably be beat by an 8 year old on a YZ50 in the sand . . I did test there several times when I worked at Kawi though . . It had a nice creek running thru the park that was maybe 1 foot deep and 20 feet wide in some areas . . We made around a one mile long test track that crossed the creek then went thru some trees etc . . It was really beautiful and a blast to ride.

We hired Jimmy Weinert to test our new KX 500 prototype there with us for a day and he kicked my a_s by a mile, lol . . I had never met him before so I didn’t know just what to expect as far as his personality, but he was absolutely hilarious and a lot of fun to hang out with . . My guess is that he too rented his cars from the airport, lol.

In case you didn’t know, that’s where they filmed the Mash TV series and the original series, and the movie of The Dukes of Hazard . . The Mash set was still there and some of the Dukes of Hazard cars were lined up on both sides of the entry road during the time we tested there.
I did ride Adelanto once as a novice and I had fun.

I can’t quite place the hills behind Bills pipe shop but I should, because I’ve been most everywhere throughout Corona and Norco.

As far as testing went, we usually went to the big tracks like Saddleback, Carlsbad, Indian Dunes, De Anza and Perris, and also just before Palm Springs off to the right by the creek, however, that was apparently not good enough for Honda because they had their secret test track they would use, and in fact, I don’t remember seeing another factory testing where we were more than a few times.

Sorry for the long post but I got caught up reminiscing again.
.

John_Neary

08-01-2015, 08:31 PM

barnett468

08-01-2015, 08:45 PM

.

I apologize if you posted this earlier but did you guys bore an engine out to get 500cc’s or was it an XR 500 engine to start with, and was the engine modified etc?

Did you ever race Desert on anything yourself?

George definitely gets a hero award, because those pucker bushes are hard enough to avoid when going fast on a motorcycle on the start, but with the two rear wheels on a 3 wheeler, they would have had to hit lots of them.

I raced a few Desert races on motorcycles but finally gave it up because I wasn’t smart enough to know when to shut off or how to read the signs/flags, and after flying off a steep embankment while leading one race, and going 5 miles off course during another [after which everyone laughed at me when I finally made it back well after the race had ended], I knew it wasn’t a good idea for me race in the Desert, lol.

There was one District 37 Desert racer that would come to the MX races once in a while, and he always had a beer in his hand before the races . . He would then proceed to demolish the Pro class every time . . I asked why he didn’t race AMA Motocross full time instead of the Dez, and he said he liked racing Desert better.
.

John_Neary

08-01-2015, 08:54 PM

I never really had a chance to do any desert racing since my Dad and brother saw it was really to much work for a small team of two kids and a Dad before i was old enough to ride that sort of thing. Hauling butt out in the middle of no where with no crowd or ambulance in sight is not my cup of tea so i am happy to of skipped it.

The XR500 was bored and stroked to 560cc but i do not recall much else as it was a bike i never raced.

barnett468

08-01-2015, 09:27 PM

.
.
.

I never really had a chance to do any desert racing since my Dad and brother saw it was really to much work for a small team of two kids and a Dad before i was old enough to ride that sort of thing. Hauling butt out in the middle of no where with no crowd or ambulance in sight is not my cup of tea so i am happy to of skipped it.

Yes but they had the clean up guy take off after the last rider left so he could radio back for the truck if someone fell off and broke something, lol.

My friend broke his leg during a Desert race and rode back because he didn’t want to wait for the truck.

I heard that Dean Sundahl wadded up a trike at high speed during a Desert race too and was a little bit goofy afterwards.

I wonder how Larry Roessler made it all those years without a big crash.

The XR500 was bored and stroked to 560cc but i do not recall much else as it was a bike i never raced.
That must have been a handful . . A shop I worked at sponsored a guy to race Desert on an XL 350 that they stroked it to a 500, and he rode into a mine shaft in the Desert and broke his neck and had to be helicoptered out . . He started racing again after he was better . . I would have stopped.

I see you are in Chico so I was just wondering, did you ever happen to see a clean 1969 orange colored Camaro running around there maybe around 12 years ago?

John_Neary

08-02-2015, 01:32 AM

some pics

Corona Raceway flat track, George is #26 and #6 is our friend Robin.
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First photo is a CRC race at Anaheim stadium, second pic is a chubby kid eye balling you and the last one is our pit at San Jose in 82. You can see George's XR500 and his Selvy 250 Honda as well as my Can-Am 400....in the back ground is my Nicholson 200 that was all day having engine issues. In the blue shirt and white shorts is a very young Rob Selvy trying to help me figure out why my bike would not run past half throttle. We never did solve it in time for the race. :(
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Rotax cylinder waiting for some love.
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oile

08-02-2015, 02:09 AM

That Rotax cylinder is very interesting never thought it would be opened up so much like that.

onformula1

08-02-2015, 02:10 AM

I always loved that engine, when you take the cylinder off will you take some pictures of the ports and see if the cylinder will go on the correct way, I was always curious if the cylinder was modified by Mr. Franks to fit backwards.

Also, would you mind giving us some info on Mr. Franks, demeanor, style, personality, ETC.

I met him when I was very young after seeing articles in the magazines, I remember him as a good sized guy that was a quiet genius, pretty mellow and carrying around a caliper, I am curious if he had a different side or if he was just playing it cool for a couple of guys that just showed up at his shop to say hello, and thank him.

Thank You, Milner

John_Neary

08-02-2015, 03:25 PM

@onformula1 - From what i remember Kelvin was a quiet, soft spoken guy who loved his work. I never once saw him loss his temper or make a fuss about anything and he was a one man show aside from helper Ricky who did all the welding.

His shop was a modest two bay setup in one of the countless little business parks you see in So Cal and it only had a couple of his own bikes there and one stock and as new condition early 80s XR350R i really, really tried to get my Dad to buy for me with no luck. :lol:

I never visited his home so he might of had a garage full of his trick handmade two wheelers but the only ones i saw around his shop where a couple extremely modded XR75s that had custom frames, forks and everything tricked out on them but i never rode one or even saw one of them running.

If Kelvin had one fault it was that he spent to much time at his shop and to little at the race tracks so he was forced to go off others feedback and i think that held him back a bit with staying current. Pretty amazing how much cool stuff he came up with considering he was not just stealing others ideas like everyone else was doing back then since he never went to the tracks to see what others where doing.

Rotax uses a Answer 83 CR250 silencer, time to order some new packing.
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onformula1

08-02-2015, 06:01 PM

Those Answers were very well built, I can't stand the out silencers with the snap rings.

FMF makes a descent packing kit for like $8 bucks.

A trick I use is wear gloves, wrap it real tight, oversized then run three bands of 1" masking tap around both ends and one in the middle, the tape will just turn to dust.

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

onformula1

08-02-2015, 07:04 PM

The riding area by Bill's Pipes was not a public thing, it was two or three outdoor type tracks up in the Norco hills behind the shop. Bill always had three or four of the newest motocross bikes for pipe development and dyno work and he didnt care if we took them up in the hills for a gas tank or two.

I used to stay in LA for a week or two at a time so that was a great way to pass the days. :)
Bill's makes some great pipes, it's nice to see the producing 2 stroke pipes again, they are considering building some older stuff, hopefully some trike stuff as well.

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

John_Neary

08-04-2015, 03:49 PM

George riding practice at a Pomona Micky Thompson race in early 83, because the course was mostly on the infield of a horse racing track once the sun went down the lighting was bad and my Dad could not take photos of the races.

Staging for practice and the races was a total pain in the butt as they made you come early and you would spend 30 minutes sitting out in a field as each class before you had their turn. At night it was worse as the fog would come in and you could get a chill, and if there was a problem (and those stupid stadium trucks ALWAYS had problems) and the tow trucks had to come out expect a extra 15 minutes added onto your time sitting in the field.

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Pomona was a fun track that had great dirt but neither George or I managed to win there, lot of top fives but it was hard getting a good start with the short run they had to the first turn without getting all piled up with other people.

The Micky Thompson series in 82-84 would visit Pomona Fairgrounds five or six times during the season but from 1985 onward they started racing in the football stadiums more and Pomona was only used for the final race of the season.

Rotax pic of the day, new carb gaskets and anti froth foamy plus a lite spring (always hated how stiff the spring was).

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Between us i would rather use a Keihin PWK ;)

onformula1

08-05-2015, 12:33 AM

^ Shouldn't it have a Bing 32mm?...LOL

John_Neary

08-05-2015, 12:51 AM

Bing carbs worked good, had one on the Can-Am 400 and it never needed to be touched. My 84 KTM125 came with a puke green Dellorto carb that was quite the piece of work.

onformula1

08-05-2015, 12:57 AM

One of the best carbs I ever used was a 38mm magnesium Dell'orto carb of a KTM 1994-1995 right before they switched to Keihin's.

Once set-up I could ride from 1000-8000 ft. with no adjustments, unreal carb.

atc007

08-05-2015, 08:48 AM

Lol, It's been a LONG time since I was in a Bing . Amazing thread and memories :)

oldskool83

08-05-2015, 08:58 AM

Thru all of this you see none of these bike were eye candy...they were all used...today it seems we build eye candy and do not use them.

atc007

08-05-2015, 09:59 AM

Most that have eye candy ,have MANY riders also. No need to be judgemental to those that love a shiny bike to look at and enjoy any time they like.

John_Neary

08-05-2015, 10:19 AM

the lack of replacement parts forces many to admire more than use their three wheelers, i know if i wadded up my Franks bike i would be a very unhappy camper

barnett468

08-05-2015, 05:56 PM

.
One hasn't thoroughly enjoyed vintage carburetors until they have had an old Amal carb with a "tickler" for the choke . . It is simply a spring loaded button that pushes the float down to open the needle when depressed which fills the crankcase, and the outside of the engine, with gas . . No need for your engine to have to try and suck the gas out of the carb to start, and no need to clean your engine very often.

..............................https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSY9w3Gx92k_vn_6r7USGoIZfQ3p5UyK 3hAAdFDjz0hKDi8cWZV

John_Neary

08-06-2015, 12:41 AM

George racing his 250R in 81 and 82

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Orangecnty250r

08-06-2015, 08:56 PM

Most that have eye candy ,have MANY riders also. No need to be judgemental to those that love a shiny bike to look at and enjoy any time they like.

Yepsiry!!!

Keith Salyer

08-06-2015, 11:04 PM

John, your Dad was quite the innovator back in the 80's. I wish I would have spoke with him at the races. He and I thought a lot alike especially about tires. I was experimenting with Hoosier, Marsh and grooving my own tires by late 82/early 83. Heck maybe I got the ideas from seeing you guy's trikes in the magazines with the trick tires. I was running some Big sticky Hoosiers in the astrodome when they let us trikes do an support class during the AMA flat track series early 83. I got second behind my teammate Mike Park because I had the holeshot but when I went to back it in the first turn those sticky 20 durometer meats stuck and it took me two tries to pitch it. After that I could not get around him. Could have thrown a blanket over us the whole race.

John_Neary

08-06-2015, 11:30 PM

Yeah my Dad was really into tuning the handling via compound, air pressure and grooving.I spent many a night out in our shop hand grooving our RAs and Tri Tracs. Ill post some close up shots of my Rotax's tires later as both are grooved in a unique way. But we where not the only ones, Honda used to have techs from Ohtsu at the races who would hand groove tires out of slicks that looked production they did such a good job of it.

onformula1

08-06-2015, 11:39 PM

Yeah my Dad was really into tuning the handling via compound, air pressure and grooving.I spent many a night out in our shopping hand grooving our RAs and Tri Tracs. Ill post some close up shots of my Rotax's tires later as both are grooved in a unique way. But we where not the only ones, Honda used to have techs at the races who would hand groove tires out of slicks that looked production they did such a good job of it.

That reminds me of the movie On Any Sunday 2 were King Kenny Roberts is forced to cut his own rain tires out of racing slicks, because the European manufactures would not sell him rain tires...They look nice too.

phantomtracer

08-08-2015, 10:48 AM

Not sure if this was posted already or if this is the right spot, but I just ran across this article last night on a Franks bike.219494219495219496

Red Rider

08-08-2015, 02:32 PM

Thanks for posting that phantom. Now I have a kink in my neck. :lol:

John_Neary

08-09-2015, 04:28 PM

Some from 1981

Our local track Cycleland Speedway had 45 "marathon" races as they called them, George would solo ride them while i would usually team up with one other rider and take turns every 15 minutes. George had the only 250R in our area in early 81...was like having a jet fighter vs WW1 planes :lol:
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I had forgotten George ever raced a 185s till i saw this pics.
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But he was not a cherry picker, a few months later he was racing the Score Off Road World Championship in Riverside.
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-Today in Rotax -Stuff that is done and waiting to go back on

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Rear brake system
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New shrouds thanks to DC Plastics
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Currently held up by a sticky pivot bolt, been feeding it the AeroKroil spray. It turns freely but wont budge so im guessing its corrosion around the bushings. I might consult some local shops and see who has a slide sledge and ill bring the frame to them as i do not wanna damage anything.

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It is tail heavy on the stand so leaving the forks, brakes on clamps on in till i can remove the rear axle. Had to order a 26mm socket and 41mm wrench...most of my budget has been on tools so far instead of parts. :wondering
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onformula1

08-09-2015, 07:59 PM

^ Did you try the old open end wrench trick on the pivot bolt?

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

John_Neary

08-09-2015, 08:20 PM

@onformula1 - what is the open end wrench trick?

onformula1

08-09-2015, 10:06 PM

@onformula1 - what is the open end wrench trick?

Here's what I do-

I put the nut on and tap it back and forth with a rubber mallet, lightly then take the nut off and tap it until it stops, then put a open end wrench that is slightly larger than the shaft then apply outward pressure on the wrench while turning the bolt with a rachet or better yet a impact wrench.

If it still won't come out use can use a wood block on the backside of the wrench to slightly pry it out while it is spinning. The wood block can rest against the frame, you can also tape off the frame to prevent marring.219729

onformula1

08-09-2015, 10:13 PM

Not sure if this was posted already or if this is the right spot, but I just ran across this article last night on a Franks bike.219494219495219496

I always loved that article.

Notice the mistakes in that article- In one part it says it has Armstrong tires and in the spec sheet it says Carlisle tires. It says it uses a modified 200X gas tank, but it is a modified 1981-1982 250R tank, it also says the go kart cylinder is mated to a standard bottom end, not mention it has a close ratio gearbox, different ignition and lighter flywheel.

John_Neary

08-16-2015, 12:25 AM

Few more pics

Start off with a nice shot of Saddleback Park, this hill was my favorite part of the whole track to ride. George is in white with a bunch of factory guys ahead of and behind him. Can also see Eddie Sanders on his RM250 in this shot as well.

219991

Some randoms of George on his 250R
219992 219993

Pits at Fremont Raceway in 82, i forget the name of the young man in the center left with the blond hair and the PC on his jersey but he was fast and could give George a hard time on his good days. Can see the Nicholson frame CR480 in the foreground. The tall gent on the left with the glasses is our friend Robin. I still have some of my old DG gear like a yellow version of the jersey i am wearing here.

219994

Some updates on the Rotax

Got the swing arm and stuff off today and what a mess. Thankfully it looks like it uses all brass bushing and no needle bearings and they are all in good shape so super happy about that.

219995 219996 219997

I think these are DuraBlue hubs but i am not 100% sure.

219998

Took a week of hitting it with penetrating oil to get this sucker out. Used a air gun as a few people suggested and it slide out in the end.

219999