The Moto-Gote 2x2

[muttman]

Hi everyone, newb here.

I have been working on a 2wd trail bike project using a 1984 atc 125m, I call it the Moto-Gote. I have used info from this site a lot in researching this project, so I figured I should register and post it up for yall.

Donor
http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mini%20Bike/20150429_160845.jpg (http://s742.photobucket.com/user/custom500pics/media/Mini%20Bike/20150429_160845.jpg.html)

Parts pile
http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mini%20Bike/20150503_221049.jpg (http://s742.photobucket.com/user/custom500pics/media/Mini%20Bike/20150503_221049.jpg.html)

I widened and recentered the 9" wheels
http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mini%20Bike/20150531_181631.jpg (http://s742.photobucket.com/user/custom500pics/media/Mini%20Bike/20150531_181631.jpg.html)

Frame tacked together
http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mini%20Bike/20150711_181616.jpg (http://s742.photobucket.com/user/custom500pics/media/Mini%20Bike/20150711_181616.jpg.html)

[jlucero]

This looks awesome. I'm excited to see how this turns out

[kaymo]

OMB member haha

[maineiac1833]

This looks like it will be a sweet rig! How do you plan on driving the front tire? Along the same lines as a rokon set up or something else?

[kaymo]

might want to ditch those manco style cable brake calipers for some hydro units. I need a couple for some of my karts (only bc thats what they came with and i dont feel like converting) but I probably have a couple hydro units i could swap you for.

[coolpool]

You've got my interest, keep us posted. Should look awesome but handle like crap, lol. I've never rode a Rokon but having a wheel pull you would be a weird feeling. Having a fat wheel doing the same will be even more pronounced. Loving it! Where'd you get those mechanical disc brakes?

[kaymo]

the mechanical disc brakes are manco units. they might be ok for this but they are crap on karts!

[muttman]

Hey guys, sorry I haven't posted up progress pics, been too dang busy to get much accomplished.

The front wheel will be driven by a horizontal jackshaft through the center of the fork pivot with a u-joint for steering, then a chain down to the front wheel. Nothing like a Rokon, more similar to Arctic Cat Cub or Trail Partner bikes.

I chose mechanical brake calipers and very small(6") rotors over hydraulic because I am worried about them being too sensative/touchy. They will be mounted "inboard" on the front and rear jackshafts, which means there is a 4.3:1 reduction (10 tooth sprocket to 43 tooth sprocket). So the brake rotors will spin 4.3 revolutions for each tire revolution giving a massive mechanical advantage to the brakes. Not to mention, this thing will be routinely buried to the handlebars in mud, so simple is good. Hell, I'm putting a snorkle and winch on it.

The front drive shouldn't affect the handling at all until there is rear wheel slippage, then the overrunning clutch will kick in and send power to the front wheel. As long as the front tire is spinning the same speed or faster than the rear, the 2x2 system should be "transparent".

[coolpool]

Sounds like this isn't your first rodeo. Keep the pictures coming!

[muttman]

The brake calipers/rotors are Airheart brand. I ordered them on Amazon (pretty expensive for what you get).

[muttman]

Some progress on the drivetrain.

Here the overrunning clutch can be seen towards the right side of the rear jackshaft.
http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mini%20Bike/20150903_223518.jpg (http://s742.photobucket.com/user/custom500pics/media/Mini%20Bike/20150903_223518.jpg.html)

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mini%20Bike/20150903_223619.jpg (http://s742.photobucket.com/user/custom500pics/media/Mini%20Bike/20150903_223619.jpg.html)

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mini%20Bike/20150903_223803.jpg (http://s742.photobucket.com/user/custom500pics/media/Mini%20Bike/20150903_223803.jpg.html)

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mini%20Bike/20150903_223603.jpg (http://s742.photobucket.com/user/custom500pics/media/Mini%20Bike/20150903_223603.jpg.html)

[coolpool]

You sure have vision! I'm really interested where this is going. Keep the pics coming.

[muttman]

Fully welded ready for primer. You can really see how it works here.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mini%20Bike/20151026_193712.jpg (http://s742.photobucket.com/user/custom500pics/media/Mini%20Bike/20151026_193712.jpg.html)

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mini%20Bike/20151026_193659.jpg (http://s742.photobucket.com/user/custom500pics/media/Mini%20Bike/20151026_193659.jpg.html)

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mini%20Bike/20151026_193647.jpg (http://s742.photobucket.com/user/custom500pics/media/Mini%20Bike/20151026_193647.jpg.html)

[muttman]

IT'S ALIVE! She is running, but nowhere near finished.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mini%20Bike/20151103_095835.jpg (http://s742.photobucket.com/user/custom500pics/media/Mini%20Bike/20151103_095835.jpg.html)

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mini%20Bike/20151103_095904.jpg (http://s742.photobucket.com/user/custom500pics/media/Mini%20Bike/20151103_095904.jpg.html)

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mini%20Bike/20151103_100103.jpg (http://s742.photobucket.com/user/custom500pics/media/Mini%20Bike/20151103_100103.jpg.html)

Here are a couple videos of literally the very first ride. Not bad for someone who has never ridden a motorcycle, ha.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nih34qn6pg

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pwsd3syzNsc

[NETRA3]

Interesting build!!! Lots of ingenuity in that one....I know the neat trick for the Rokon guys is to put a ATC125/110 engine in them, They're great with the high low range and maintenance free motors.

[Keepah Rolln]

Very cool project..

[muttman]

Hi everyone, I need some tuning advice, cause this is getting out of hand. I cannot figure out why my muddercycle is experiencing a lean condition at 1/2 to full throttle. The 84 atc 125m donor trike ran great last summer before the teardown.

It will start and idle perfectly, hot or cold, but go anywhere near full throttle and it dies like you just hit the kill switch. If the throttle is released before it dies completely, it will happily idle again. It behaves exactly the same in neutral or under load. I know it is a lean condition because pulling the choke helps tremendously, but of course it has no power. Also I tried spraying gas from a small bottle into the carb while dying under full throttle..... it was like a hit of nitrous and nearly threw me off the back (this is the only time since completion that I have experienced anywhere near the power this should have). So I'm pretty dang sure it is running lean.

First, I obviously verified the carb was getting plenty of fuel and put fresh non ethanol gas in. I have adjusted the carb from one extreme to the other and everywhere in between multiple times with no notable change. Then I rebuilt the carb with a Japanese Shindy rebuild kit with the proper sized jets..... no change. I checked the electrical grounds and even added an extra ground wire to be sure..... no change. I tried it with and without the muffler to rule out a clog.... no change. I tried it with the original air filter and box, no filter, and a new k&n filter.... no change. I checked and cleaned the cdi and replaced the spark plug and wire.... no change. I checked the valves and verified proper valve lash..... no change. I was starting to get frustrated at this point, and decided to just buy a complete brand new carb and bolt it on...... of course, no change at all.

Now this is where is starts getting interesting. I have had multiple people tell me I need to step up the main jet size, but this didnt seem right to me because the trike ran great before, and these issues seemed way too extreme to just be a jet sized a few thousanths too small. So, just to verify that I did indeed need a larger jet, I slightly drilled out the original main jet and reinstalled..... no change. Then I drilled it out slightly larger again..... no change. So, in an act of desperation I drilled the main jet out 300% to 500% larger than it is supposed to be, and guess what..... it runs WAAAAAAY better! It is nowhere near perfect, and doesn't want to idle now, but it has SOOOO much more power it is like a different engine.

This is way over my head now, I cannot even fathom how a big block sized fuel jet doesn't immediately flood and foul the motor. Any suggestions on my next move?

[muttman]

And here are a couple 2x2 "burnout" vids just for fun.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a6F0ffn4Or4

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzz8XtaMXd0

[shovelryder]

Did you try raising the needle???

[muttman]

Did you try raising the needle???

Yes, tried it in every notch multiple times on both carbs. The engine responds to the adjustments just as you would expect from idle to about 1/2 throttle then all bets are off.... ultra lean no matter what.

I also checked thoroughly for vacuum leaks. The intake gaskets and spacer are in good shape.

[El Camexican]

How much if any would you say the angle of your carburetor has changed between when it was a trike and now? That is all that jumps out at me based on what you've said.

If it has changed a little you may need to mess with the float height, if its moved a lot you may need to make a major change to get the angle of carb back to where the main jet is immersed in fuel.

Are you running something different for an air box than it had?

Just spit balling here, I hope it helps.

[boy&hisdogs]

How much if any would you say the angle of your carburetor has changed between when it was a trike and now? That is all that jumps out at me based on what you've said.

If it has changed a little you may need to mess with the float height, if its moved a lot you may need to make a major change to get the angle of carb back to where the main jet is immersed in fuel.

Are you running something different for an air box than it had?

Just spit balling here, I hope it helps.

I think this guy in on to something. It should run the same as it did in the original bike, but for some reason it's not. If it was as simple as a less restrictive air box setup then you'd think that it would be as simple as rejetting or adjusting the needle like the thousands of people who de-snorkel or drill their airboxes on dirtbikes all the time. I think the difference in angle might be the ticket, especially if the pilot jet is on the lower side and the main is on the high side. I wouldn't know how to fix that though, aside from moving your engine mounts to get a more stock angle. You could tweak your float, in theory, but that would be a band-aid fix that might bite you later out on the trail.

I'm not sure what your thing-that-connects-carb-and-cylinder (intake manifold? Is that what it's called on a thumper?) is made of, but if it's a steel pipe you might be able to heat and bend it a little. If it's cast then you might be SOL.

[El Camexican]

I think this guy in on to something. It should run the same as it did in the original bike, but for some reason it's not. If it was as simple as a less restrictive air box setup then you'd think that it would be as simple as rejetting or adjusting the needle like the thousands of people who de-snorkel or drill their airboxes on dirtbikes all the time. I think the difference in angle might be the ticket, especially if the pilot jet is on the lower side and the main is on the high side. I wouldn't know how to fix that though, aside from moving your engine mounts to get a more stock angle. You could tweak your float, in theory, but that would be a band-aid fix that might bite you later out on the trail.

I'm not sure what your thing-that-connects-carb-and-cylinder (intake manifold? Is that what it's called on a thumper?) is made of, but if it's a steel pipe you might be able to heat and bend it a little. If it's cast then you might be SOL.

If my guess is right he may be able to machine the intake tract flange to change the angle. I suspect it's aluminum, or cast steel.

[ironchop]

I just now read this thread. I don't know how I missed it but that thing is badass! I watched all the vids and that's a pretty impressive build and style.

Nice work.

I also dig the custom painted cooler on the first page. Bravo.



Sent from my Z998 using Tapatalk

[muttman]

How much if any would you say the angle of your carburetor has changed between when it was a trike and now? That is all that jumps out at me based on what you've said.

If it has changed a little you may need to mess with the float height, if its moved a lot you may need to make a major change to get the angle of carb back to where the main jet is immersed in fuel.

Are you running something different for an air box than it had?

Just spit balling here, I hope it helps.


I was careful to mount the engine at the same angle as stock. The carb float bowl and the Honda logo on the pull start cover are perfectly level, so I seriously doubt that is the problem. I did do quite a bit of adjusting on the carb with the bike nose up then nose down to test the theory with no luck. I have officially burned through 2.5 gal of gas trying to get this thing running right. :mad:

Speaking of gas I have been using non ethanol 87 octane, the same I have been running in my 2 stroke outboard for years. Should I try premium 93 octane? All the premium I can find around here has ethanol.

[muttman]

I just now read this thread. I don't know how I missed it but that thing is badass! I watched all the vids and that's a pretty impressive build and style.

Nice work.

I also dig the custom painted cooler on the first page. Bravo.



Sent from my Z998 using Tapatalk


Thanks.

Merica.

[muttman]

I also wanted to add that I am gathering parts for a much lighter version of this.... maybe even an aluminum frame. Which means I will probably convert this one to a 3wd trike..... if I ever get it running right, ha.

[josh383]

Awesome! Great work man.