Parts list for the new 200x project, anything I should add chnage?

[RUNMEDOWN]

I will be using this as a "put around" machine, no high rpm screaming, more of something to ride next to my 14 year old son that is learing to ride my 110/125 and my wife whom I am restoring an ATC185s for.

Have=X Need=O "Have on shelf"=from past projects.


X $700.00 83 ATC200x
X $37.98 Cam: XL185s (1979 – Higher lift and duration than stock 200x)
X Have on shelf Head: 200e (With Decompress lever)
X $38.00 Cylinder: 200x (Bored to 66mm)
X $18.95 Cam Timing chain: Moose
O $100.00 Rebore/hone
X $95.81 Piston: 66mm 10:1 Wiesco
X $38.00 Carb: New Stock 24mm
X Have on shelf Valves: Stock
X Have on shelf Pipe: Bassani
X $98.32 Lower/trans: 84 ATC200S
X Have on shelf Rear brake: Stock (E-brake delete)
X Have on shelf Front brake: Stock
X $63.48 Front tire: Need or tube
X Have on shelf Rear Tires: Mud sharks
O New Chain:
X $200.00 New Plastic - Maier (Rear)

[YTZ drew]

Good thing you've got the head with the decomp, because that pull start bottom end will need it with 10:1 compression! Sounds like a nice build. You'll like the XL cam, that's what I'm running, along with the XL head, and an XR185 jug with a 10:1 piston. It makes nice power and should run forever with clean oil.

[RUNMEDOWN]

Awesome. This will be my first build with the XL185 cam. I hear good things but you never know till you try.

[RUNMEDOWN]

Another question for the build; Since I am going with the Auto-X build and will be removing the clutch lever, I was thinking of running a left hand master cylinder lever and have a custom cut brake line run to the back caliper since a foot brake is a pain on the Auto-X conversion. Any reason not to do this? Just want to be sure I am not missing something obvious or if the hand master cylinder would not have enough bite for a rear brake. Another option is to splice the line to the front and the rear so one master cylinder works both brakes, Bad idea?

[barnett468]

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since this is just a put around bike and you dont want a high rpm screamer and you just want to keep up with a beginner rider whom will be on a 125, the stock 200x cam would be just fine, especially since you will have a bigger bore and higher compression piston and a header etc so im wondering why you want a different cam at all.

[RUNMEDOWN]

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since this is just a put around bike and you dont want a high rpm screamer and you just want to keep up with a beginner rider whom will be on a 125, the stock 200x cam would be just fine, especially since you will have a bigger bore and higher compression piston and a header etc so im wondering why you want a different cam at all.

I have been doing some web-triking, basically building the 200x via eBay and other online stores in combination to what I have on the shelf from past projects. The Build will not start for a few weeks due to my wife deciding we need new countertops in the kitchen; just spent the last 3 days with that and now she wants new wood floors, that will be another week. So I am stockpiling parts and had read that the FL185 is a good cam, found one cheap and bought it. The Stock 200x cam, cylinder, and piston are in the 200e I built for one of my cabins. I needed a cam so I just thought I would try it out. Now I am reading that longer duration cams reduce low end power, I hope the high compression piston will help. I think that I will take my time with this build and build it up to be showroom/slightly used condition. I don’t want a museum piece but I would like it to look period correct and be fun to ride.

[barnett468]

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ok, xlnt...cams are very complicated and the combination of different aspects are what determines how it performs but in general, the longer the advertised duration, the less bottom and more top end power and rpm an engine will have if all other aspects remain the same.

the narrower the lsa [cam lobe separation] the narrower the power band and the rougher the idle but the more power it will have in that narrower band . . in otherwords, it will hit hard and pull hard over maybe a 2500 rpm range . . the wider lsa will not have a sudden rush of power and it will be a smoother power delivery . . in general, a cadillac will have around a 115 lsa and john forces cam has around 104 . . 110 lsa is the most common for performance engines whether they are automotive or motorcycle because its a good middle of the road setting . . 112 is the second most common . . most automobiles are around 115.

the duration @ .050" valve lift also has a big effect on characteristics.

if you have one cam with 270 degrees of advertised duration and one with 275, it would be hard to tell the difference between the two if everything else was basically the same but if there were 10 of difference in the advertised duration, there would be a noticeable but not huge difference . . if there were 20 degrees of difference, it would be a pretty .

[RUNMEDOWN]

Thank you for the information, I wish I could grasp all of that, let’s pretend I am a 3 year-old, do I need to buy a 200x cam or will the FL185 cam I bought work for what I need? Again, thanks for the insight.

[barnett468]

will the FL185 cam I bought work for what I need?

Where did you get your cam specs because the XL185 has LESS lift than the 200X . . Also, you now say it's an FL cam . . I'm soooo confused.

ATC200X . . . IN 1.280 . . EX 1.267
XL185 . . . . . IN 1.248 . . EX 1.232

[barnett468]

Thank you for the information, I wish I could grasp all of that, let’s pretend I am a 3 year-old, do I need to buy a 200x cam or will the FL185 cam I bought work for what I need? Again, thanks for the insight.


I will be using this as a "put around" machine, no high rpm screaming, more of something to ride next to my 14 year old son that is learing to ride my 110/125

i would use the 340b in the list below for your app, other option might be a stock cam . . the 200x will smoke a 125, plus, you are installing a header and high compression piston so a 200x that is modified like that will run even better than a stocker

the cam you have will certainly work and if you are on a budget i would suggest you try it, and if you find that you want a little more bottom end and a little less top end, you can install a smaller front sprocket or a bigger rear one.

if money is not a concern and you might like to do a wheelie or rev it out once in a while, i would get the 340b web cam . . it not a big cam per se so you will still have good throttle response and decent low end power.

http://www.webcamshafts.com/index_blank.html?pages/vehicle_search.html

[RUNMEDOWN]

Where did you get your cam specs because the XL185 has LESS lift than the 200X . . Also, you now say it's an FL cam . . I'm soooo confused.

ATC200X . . . IN 1.280 . . EX 1.267
XL185 . . . . . IN 1.248 . . EX 1.232

Thats my bad, its an XL185 (The FL came from an odyssey I am working on) and I show the 79 XL185 cam as having a higher lift and duration than the stock 200x cam. It is off of some Dual sport models. I hope I did not take a step in the wrong direction.

From another post:
Camshaft Part# 14101-446-000------MSRP---$78.42------Status: Still available from your Honda dealer as of 12/09/04
This camshaft is used in ALL XR versions of the 185 and 200 dirtbikes up to the 2002 model year except the '84-'85XR200R.
1979 XR 185
1980-1984 XR 200
1981-1983 & 1985-2002 XR 200R


Camshaft Part# 14101-437-000-----MSRP---$70.13------Status: Discontinued at one point but currently available in limited Qty as of 12/04
This camshaft is used exclusively in the dual sport bikes and has a higher lift and duration than the XR version camshafts.
1979-1984 XL 125S
1979-1983 XL 185S
1983-1984 XL 200R

[YTZ drew]

The XL cam does in fact have higher lift and duration than the "stock 200X cams" they sell now. The original 200X cam may be different, as Honda has now merged the 200 auto-clutch cam and the X cam into one common replacement part. I measured the lift on 2 XL185 cams, one used with a slightly funny wear pattern on one lifter, and a NOS Honda cam right out of the bag (the one that's in my 200X now). Also an XR185 cam (same as XR200) and a brand new "oem replacement" 200X cam from ebay, all back to back measurements. The 200X cam had the least lift, the XL more, and the XR slightly more than that. The cams visually got "wider" and each had a smaller base circle than the one before it, in the same order. This indicates to me that the 200X has the least duration, the XL slightly more, and the XR slightly more than that. I don't have any of the measurements in front of me, but if memory serves, the research I did when picking a cam indicated that the 200X was 226 degrees, the XL was 236, and the XR was 246. These were internet specs, so take them for what they are worth. I remember that 2 of those specs came from a reputable cam grinder's website. I measured the lift myself to confirm what I read online, and would have attempted to measure duration too if I had a small enough degree wheel. I went with the XL cam because its "in between" the stock cam and the XR which supposedly loses a little bottom end, and also because I have an XL185, so I knew what to expect power-wise. I had the X apart for a while, so I can't accurately compare before and after performance, but I think the XL cam with the slight extra compression from the XR piston is great. I can float the front end of my 200X anytime I want just leaning back and rolling on in 2nd or 3rd, and I find it to be perfect in tight woods trails. Wheww! Hope this long post helps.

[barnett468]

Thats my bad, its an XL185 (The FL came from an odyssey I am working on) and I show the 79 XL185 cam as having a higher lift and duration than the stock 200x cam. It is off of some Dual sport models. I hope I did not take a step in the wrong direction.


the cam specs i posted are from honda manuals, but as YTZ mentioned, honda may have changed them, however, it should have a different p/n if they did.

irregardless, there won't be a ton of difference between the web cam and the xl for your intended use but keep this in mind for the next time, there is a reason that there are people making aftermarket cams for vehicles.

[barnett468]

I don't have any of the measurements in front of me, but if memory serves, the research I did when picking a cam indicated that the 200X was 226 degrees, the XL was 236, and the XR was 246.

these are should be the amount of duration at .040" or .050"

the web cam i suggested is 237 degrees @ .050" lift so that aspect basically the same as the xl and the web cam has .340 lift at the valve.

[YTZ drew]

I want to say that the XL had something like .320" at the valve, but I'm going from memory. I don't think I even kept a note of what each cam measured, since I still have an extra one of each on the shelf. If I get ambitious I'll take all 3, remeasure them all for lift at the valve (super easy to do with an extra head hanging around) and maybe I'll figure out a way to measure duration, then we'll all know for sure. The only degree wheel I have is for doing V8 camshafts, so its huge compared to anything on a 200X.

[RUNMEDOWN]

This is why I love this site. I have had jeeps (lime green rubicon) that all of the sites about jeeps always turned into a "D" measuring contest. Here you can ask a question and people have good insite and advise. I have 11new boxes in my garage dropped of by the big Brown truck ready for me to find the time to start the rebuild.

[barnett468]

This is why I love this site. I have had jeeps (lime green rubicon) that all of the sites about jeeps always turned into a "D" measuring contest. Here you can ask a question and people have good insite and advise.

I have seen the same on some sites . . its ok to have lively discussions about a subject and to rigorously defends ones opinion/position and to agree to disagree in the end if thats the case, however, its simply retarded to be an a hole. :lol:

there are many very sharp people here and YTZDREW is definitely one of them.
.

[86125m]

And you are not trying to race the bike if I understand correctly. I could have really built my 200x engine when I was rebuilding my bike But I decided to go stock because once you hop these motors up to much you start having reliability problems. I have no regrets going stock either It has just enough power for me.

[RUNMEDOWN]

Update: the new parts are out of the boxes..... and into labeled Rubbermaid totes and into my shed. Still waiting for time to work on it. Apparently I had time to redo the kitchen counters and back splashes for the wife and I also have time to put in new wood floors in the kitchen but I do not have time to work on my projects.........

[RUNMEDOWN]

Well it is almost time. I cleaned/referbed each part as it came off so it took a long time. I was also getting into the "I need to take some time off from projects" mode and have not touched a pert in a few weeks. I went out to my land this last weekend and partied with some of the locals, all were riding ATCS. Got me back in the mindset. Since I restore as I disassemble the reassembly should only take 20 hours give or take. I have one last part to take your powdercoat but then it is time to reassemble.

[AntMan3Wheels]

I will be using this as a "put around" machine, no high rpm screaming, more of something to ride next to my 14 year old son that is learing to ride my 110/125 and my wife whom I am restoring an ATC185s for.

Have=X Need=O "Have on shelf"=from past projects.


X $700.00 83 ATC200x
X $37.98 Cam: XL185s (1979 – Higher lift and duration than stock 200x)
X Have on shelf Head: 200e (With Decompress lever)
X $38.00 Cylinder: 200x (Bored to 66mm)
X $18.95 Cam Timing chain: Moose
O $100.00 Rebore/hone
X $95.81 Piston: 66mm 10:1 Wiesco
X $38.00 Carb: New Stock 24mm
X Have on shelf Valves: Stock
X Have on shelf Pipe: Bassani
X $98.32 Lower/trans: 84 ATC200S
X Have on shelf Rear brake: Stock (E-brake delete)
X Have on shelf Front brake: Stock
X $63.48 Front tire: Need or tube
X Have on shelf Rear Tires: Mud sharks
O New Chain:
X $200.00 New Plastic - Maier (Rear)



High Torque Cam .362 Lift 270/266 Duration Just like the old DG Dirtwheels ad's. Naturally the piston has to be changed to compensate for the duration. Wiesco 10.25:1 compression piston
is best because the 12:1 piston has clearance issues. If the machine has idle issues which seems to only be an issue on my ATC200X the timing has to be at full advance. Move the pickup all the way to the right. This simple modification with the addition of 20 inch or smaller Hole Shot tires or what ever Squared off track tire you prefer, makes the 1983-1985 ATC200X the safest Threewheeler made. Just don't forget to jet the carb.
Also, with the addition of a SuperTrapp exhaust, Ported Head, and a 28mm Flat slide Mikuni the 200X is a monster. I swap between the 24mm carb and the 28mm when I'm climbing in the sand pit. The 24mm has more low end Torque so it's good for climbing.
With all the upgrades I mentioned and the 200X will eat a Banshee till about 4th Gear Drag racing in the dirt or sand. Just don't try to drag race one on the street. Banshee's can't compete with
a threewheeler on traction. By giving a banshee traction on the street your asking for a hurtin. Just leave him at the line on the dirt spinning his tires. By the time he catch's you
you'll be in four gear about to hit 5 and the race will be over. Cheers

[RUNMEDOWN]

Gotcha, the parts list has grown. To include 18" tires on beadlocks, and a +2 westcoast swingarm for more front lift stability. I have turned this into something I never intended too. I will put it all back together but I may just sell it off. My big red is better for where I ride. We will see. Probably two months and it will be back together.

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