Honda 200x running too rich

[apickering975]

I have a 1985 Honda 200x and I think it is getting too much fuel. When I give it gas, it will cut out a few times while accelerating, then when I let off the gas it pops and backfires like it is getting too much fuel. I took apart the carb and cleaned it and it didnt help anything. The original carb wasnt in the best shape and needed a new gasket but it was actually cheaper just to order a new carb. I put the new carb on and it did the same thing. I adjusted the pilot screw that controls the air/fuel mix and I ended up screwing it all the way in and still nothing happened. I will be posting the link below for the carb I bought. Since it is not working the way I want it to and adjusting the pilot screw isn't helping, I am considering sending it back and ordering a different brand of carb. Other than that, I cannot think of any other problems that would be causing my trike to run this way. Any help and information is appreciated.

Link for the carburetor I bought: http://www.amazon.com/Carburetor-ATC185-ATC185S-ATC200S-ATC200X/dp/B00AVYXOZS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1443394540&sr=8-1&keywords=honda+200x+carburetor

[yaegerb]

That's a Chinese knockoff. They are erratic at best from my experience. Take your OEM carb, which is far superior, throughly clean it and order a shindy rebuild kit from eBay.

[apickering975]

Thank you for your advice. I will try that and see how it works.

[barnett468]

well if it were me, i would work with your carb a little more.

since you said both carbs do the same thing, i would check the compression, check the valve clearance, and check for air leaks . . you can do that by lowering the idle as low as possible the spray FLAMMABLE brake cleaner with the long nozzle GENTLY around the intake boot at the head . . if the rpm goes up, you have a leak.

next, take the carb float bowl off

open the fuel mix screw two turns

spray brake cleaner in the tiny holes in the air cleaner side of the carb throat and look to see if any comes out the pilot jet . . if it does, that is good.

then spray some into the pilot jet and see if it comes out in the throat of the carb . . if it does, your pilot circuit is working.

if you have ridden it for at least 10 minutes, post a photo of the end of the spark plug.

if it is dry black, it is too rich

if it was new when you installed the new carb and it is nearly white, it is too lean.

.

[350for350]

What has been done to the trike? From what you describe, I'd say it's running lean. Of course if it has an air leak like barnett says, it will be running lean.

[apickering975]

Its pretty much all original, the bottom of the spark plug was pretty dirty which leads me to believe that it is running too rich.

[mendoAu]

Sounds similar to what I was having happen on my 84es. Replaced the head gasket but after reading about the CDI box (http://www.ebay.com/itm/381395993441) in a post on this site I'm waiting for a new one to arrive. Irratic spark...works one day and won't the next. Very hard to troubleshoot when something like that is happening. It makes sense that an irratic spark will stop sparking, allowing the build up of unignited fuel and then pop with to much fuel and a backfire.

[mendoAu]

Here's the link on the CDI that will hopefully fix my problem, I'll post back in a few days to update.(http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/144910-1984-200ES-CDI-Replacement-MythBusted)

[barnett468]

Here's the link on the CDI that will hopefully fix my problem, I'll post back in a few days to update.(http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/144910-1984-200ES-CDI-Replacement-MythBusted)

umm...wait a minute . . did i miss something?

are you replacing your cdi box to try and make your bike leaner instead of simply checking the float level changing the main jet etc?
.

[barnett468]

.
basically, in general, if a bike runs above 1/2 throttlle, the cdi is NOT the problem.

[mendoAu]

In my case I don't think the problem is fuel lean/rich as much as the spark, no spark problem. Did you read that "mythbusted" thread I posted?
Basically, in general, if when testing the plug out of the engine I'm getting a spark and install the plug, it fires up. And then ten minutes later try to start it again...nothing. Remove the plug..test..no spark. (four different plugs). Take a break until the next day...spark, and starts. Idle for awhile, shut down, have lunch and then...no spark. New carb and coil, timing / valves are A-OK. Checked all the wiring and the electric start / lights etc. work fine. Like the thread seems to state, really inconsistant and/or weak spark with old CDI boxes are somewhat common after 30 years. And with a weak or faulty spark it might make a plug look (like posted above) "dirty" or imply a rich mixture. But we'll see as soon as the new part arrives.

[mendoAu]

Just trying to mention all the things to check. Noticed nobody mentioned to check the air filter and service or replace it. If it's full of dirt no matter what you do to the carb you won't be getting enough air for a proper fuel mixture, like in it will probably be rich in the combustion chamber.

[barnett468]

.
ok, i am quite familiar with that then

what is the color of the spark when cdi is cold?

how long do you have to wait until it has spark again?

is the cdi near a heat source.

if it takes 30 minutes or more before it has spark again, you can simply toss the cdi in the freezer for 10 minutes the next time it happens and put it back on and if it sparks, it is definitely the cdi.

if the cdi is near a heat source not try to move it away and duct tape it ito something it you have to or wrap it on a wash cloth to protect it from heat and see if it stays running.

[mendoAu]

Good advice but in the long run at this point and for just 22 bucks I think I'll rest easier with the new unit.
To answer your questions: it's located in the stock position under the tank mounted on the frame along side of the coil. The spark seems kinda weak when it does work and suppose it is less than bright and blue, thinking back I can't really say that I can pinpoint the length of time between working and not. I'll check it out tomorrow and do the freezer thing just to see what happens.....and there's always the "toss it down firmly on the concrete and reinstall after it stops bouncing" route.

[apickering975]

UPDATE
So I have an 83 200x that runs great so I took the carb off of that and put it on my 85. It was still having the same problems I mentioned in my original post. I put a brand new spark plug in and still nothing changed. I am kind of lost at this point. I don't know if it would have anything to do with the valves or the ignition coil, but that is the only other thing that comes to mind.

[barnett468]

UPDATE
So I have an 83 200x that runs great so I took the carb off of that and put it on my 85. It was still having the same problems I mentioned in my original post. I put a brand new spark plug in and still nothing changed. I am kind of lost at this point. I don't know if it would have anything to do with the valves or the ignition coil, but that is the only other thing that comes to mind.

what happened to the cdi theory?

you installed a new coil so that should not be it . . could be the exciter coil in the stator . . you can check the ohms of it both cold and hot.

you should also check the plug color for sure, if its blue, you have a lot of voltage which is good . . if it is yellow, it is weak but may still be ok.
.

[mendoAu]

what happened to the cdi theory?

you installed a new coil so that should not be it . . could be the exciter coil in the stator . . you can check the ohms of it both cold and hot.

you should also check the plug color for sure, if its blue, you have a lot of voltage which is good . . if it is yellow, it is weak but may still be ok.
.
Just to keep things clear, I posted the cdi theory, I'm not the original thread starter. Checking the valve adjustment is pretty easy, not so easy to check if there is a build-up of carbon on the piston and valves. A compression test might tell you something. Also have read that a clogged up exhaust can cause symptoms like that. And since you have a 83 do a search and see if you can swap out the cdi just for grins. If you have a buddy that would help crank it over while you have the plug out and grounded check the condition of the spark. And did you try it with the air filter out....they can look clean but.

[parkerwarn]

Mine did that and not to long later it blew up

[apickering975]

Update
I also adjusted the cam chain tension, and it didn't seem to help much. I could swap out the cdi box but I dont want to do that unless I know that is the problem.

[apickering975]

After trying everything I could think of, nothing helped fix the problem. I was riding it down the road to see if anything had changed and when I put it in neutral it seized up. Any recommendations on good rebuild kits? I havent taken the motor apart yet so I don't know what parts it will need for sure.

[barnett468]

After trying everything I could think of, nothing helped fix the problem. I was riding it down the road to see if anything had changed and when I put it in neutral it seized up. Any recommendations on good rebuild kits? I havent taken the motor apart yet so I don't know what parts it will need for sure.

did it have enough oil in it?

is there water in the oil?

are you sure its not the trans that broke etc.

if you remove the clutch plates then try to turn it over using a socket on the clutch nut and it doesn't turn then it is in the crank or top end area etc . you may have to flatten the lock tab on the nut if it has one on it otherwise the socket won't fit over the nut.

if it does turn, it is in the trans.

[BigRedGrizzly]

After trying everything I could think of, nothing helped fix the problem. I was riding it down the road to see if anything had changed and when I put it in neutral it seized up. Any recommendations on good rebuild kits? I havent taken the motor apart yet so I don't know what parts it will need for sure.

I recently re-built the top end on my 200X with guidance from Barnett and a bunch of others. My 200X was really lacking power. I found metal shavings in the oil so I took the top off to see what was up. The cam journal was trashed, the cam itself ended up being a White Brothers TopEnd cam which explained the low end power. The cam chain was rubbing against the case b/c of all the slop creating shavings. It was also missing the dowel in pulsator. I ended up putting a new cam in, a little beefier since the beefy springs were already in. I had the cam and rocker arms hard welded as suggested. I also sent the cylinder out for a one step up boring to ensure a true cylindrical cylinder and got a
wiseco high compression piston to match. It was all a bit over $500. After all said and done, I'm very happy with the results and now I know what I got. Here are some pics from my engine rebuild. Definitely get the service manual for free online. I used it a lot. When you take the pulsator off be conscious of the dowel in cam. It's very easy to lose.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/03/1791e7f813f12f0c425681a930d459dd.jpg
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If you have any questions reach out to me. You can use a 14mm bolt as a fly wheel puller. Be sure to get the proper pitch thread.