View Full Version : Lifan CDI on a Suzuki LT230E
Have a bad CDI on the runner...and not wanting to pay $4OO for a new one I did some searching and found that a Lifan CDI might be a possibility.The zuki has 2 stators and one is dedicated to the ignition system and appears to be separate from light and start system. If anyone sees why this cant be done id like to hear your input223214223215
Ill have to do something with the grounds which is no big deal.The zuki appears to be using ground on the kill switch,which again I can figure a way to use the kill in another way...but im thinkin this will work,and its $20 for the cdi and $12 for the plug with alil harness wiring
No electrical gurus with any input?
RIDE-RED 250r
10-28-2015, 07:35 AM
It's hard to say man... Swapping CDI's can be tricky business, even when looking to swap CDI's of the same manufacturer but made for different models.
I am not steeped enough in the finer points of electrical to give you sound advice, but the part is cheap enough, you wouldn't be out much to give it a try.
But I will say, before going that route I would be looking to source a good used OEM CDI first. Stupid question: have you checked eBay?
Sure have...used is a $100-$150 for a used one..and dont really wanna go that route f i can help it...ive heard of guys heatin it with a hot air gun fer about 10-15 min and they work,gonna try that cuz it will spark sometimes...for $20 cant hurt to try the lifan..and the same cdi is used on another china 200cc bike. It the only one i found that takes two stator wires..others are 3 or 1 wire stator..and it has 2 wires for pickup coil and the kill terminal i found out goes to ground same as zuki. Only thing im concerned with is if the advance curve for timing in higher rps will be suffecient...i read where a guy used this lifan on the china bike and it spit n spudder,switched the pickup wires and it ran...wish i could make it all honda...already adapted a 200x carb on it....thanks for replying...at least i know someone is payin attention to my posts lmao
Oh and you should sell me that 85 350 x...you really dont need it...lol
ps2fixer
10-29-2015, 12:05 PM
The photos are kind of too small to really read, but if the only difference is the ground. flip the kill switch off and it might work. Most old machines used the kill switch to ground to turn off, more modern machines ground to run (Honda based at least).
Another option are the China CDI boxes, however they are a bit of a hit or miss if they will work perfect or not. I know the 200es big red seems to work well on them, but a 350x isn't happy at all, unless you only want to idle around lol.
The CDIs from my understanding have 2 basic design differences, DC vs AC, machines with a battery and a regulator will have a DC based CDI, while machines with no regulator will have an AC based CDI. Besides that, they have different timing curves and such which you can't just see or know if it will work or not. Most likely it will at least get you spark and idle though.
If you do end up buying a non-OEM CDI and it works great for you, make sure you report back so others can run across the same info down the road that end up in the same shoes you are in now. Part numbers and such helps track the exact CDI you got (if there is any).
I will definatly keep ya informed on how it works...if it works ill try and do a write up w pics n such...just waitin for the mailman to bring it.The quadrunner has a pull starter and will run without a battery,and it has two stators,one 3 phase ac that goes to voltage reg./rectifier for the battery,starter and lights,and the second stator is a ac floating ground and it is stand alone for the ignition system only,so it has a ac cdi on it. Im on a i pad and i can click on pics and they are larger so idk about a pc. I did manage to get a 200x carborator adapted to this thing...im confident this cdi will work,(heck i used a chevy 4 prong module and ford 460 rotor,cap and coil on my jeep AMC 360 to get rid of the duraspark box)cant wait to get it in,along with all the other goodies i ordered
And im putting a 12v ac to 12v dc rectifier/regulator on my 200x with a battery to get rid of dim headlites...ill do a writeup and pics on this when i get it in as well
ps2fixer
10-30-2015, 08:25 AM
Good stuff, I'd like to do similar in the reproduction harnesses I make, but they take so long to make in the first place :(.
I kind of remember my dad saying something about a jeep distributor that was junk and some GM based one was a perfect swap, 350/455 olds or something like that, but he was an Olds guy.
Just wondering, where did you source the 12v regulator at/from? Also if you want to stick with OEM style wiring, http://cycleterminal.com/ has terminals and tools. Hondas used the 3.5mm bullet terminals, and the green handed crimps work pretty well on them ($32). Joe is very quick at getting stuff out in the mail and generally is priority mail.
RIDE-RED 250r
10-30-2015, 08:11 PM
Sure have...used is a $100-$150 for a used one..and dont really wanna go that route f i can help it...ive heard of guys heatin it with a hot air gun fer about 10-15 min and they work,gonna try that cuz it will spark sometimes...for $20 cant hurt to try the lifan..and the same cdi is used on another china 200cc bike. It the only one i found that takes two stator wires..others are 3 or 1 wire stator..and it has 2 wires for pickup coil and the kill terminal i found out goes to ground same as zuki. Only thing im concerned with is if the advance curve for timing in higher rps will be suffecient...i read where a guy used this lifan on the china bike and it spit n spudder,switched the pickup wires and it ran...wish i could make it all honda...already adapted a 200x carb on it....thanks for replying...at least i know someone is payin attention to my posts lmao
No problem bud. I didn't want you to think we were ignoring you. It's just that most folks here are reluctant to offer advice on a subject we aren't completely sure about.
Sounds like you know a thing or 2 about electrical :beer
I have an '88 LT230E Quadrunner myself. I am the second owner, the first being my late grandfather. He had CDI troubles with it in the mid 90's. It would quit out of the blue, but he figured out that he could wiggle the harness the CDI is plugged into and it would start back up and run again. This got him by for quite a while, then it got more and more troublesome and he ended up getting an OEM CDI from a local dealer and if I recall, it set him back well over $200.
So all that being said, I have a bit of interest in how your venture works out. ;) Sounds like you are doing the technical legwork and not just attempting to swap in random parts. I look forward to hearing what your results are.
PS: you'll have to speak with my wife about that 350x, as it's hers.. But I doubt you will get anywhere, she's pretty attached to it. :D
It was worth a try gettin the x...i had a 85 back in the day...awesome machines...esp 85s...yea i do plumbing n heating n a/c and been a service tech for 27 yrs. so electrical dont scare me,and have always wrenched on my own stuff...and i was a welder fabricator in the navy,so if i can build it myself regardless of what it is i will. Yea his does the same thing,seem to wiggle around and it will work for a while then just up and quit. I read somewhere that 75% of the time if ya heat em with a heat gun or 300 degree oven for 10 15 min they start workin again...so ive had it sittin on the heater for a couple days. ...figure it cant hurt.Im workin on it tomorrow and gonna try old cdi and see what happens,still waitin for mailman for cdi and plug in harness.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251310250687?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Cdi
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331634505116?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT. Harness
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331655272950?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Rectifiier...would only let me put one link at a time in...prolly this i pad im on
ps2fixer
11-01-2015, 12:17 AM
Interesting on the CDI, however how do you plan to wire it up, do you have a connector source that matches the CDI plug? It isn't a standard plug that I can think of, at least not for a CDI. I guess you could buy the harness and chop the plug off and splice it into the oem harness, I wouldn't think the harness will match the lengths of your machine quite right, but maybe it will, never know I guess.
If the CDI works when you wiggle it, sounds like bad solder joints for the soldered on plug on the CDI, or worn pins in the plug/harness plug. If you don't mind the cutting and resealing the box, you can open it up and resolder the cracked joints, and I suspect it would work again. Not sure what could be used to re-seal it, maybe scratch it up and epoxy it with some screen reinforcement.
Careful how hot you get it, it has caps inside and around 400-450F they pop (at least they do on a xbox 360). Solder re-flows at something around 360-420F, so the only way to safely fix loose pins is with a solder iron.
RIDE-RED 250r
11-01-2015, 06:14 PM
Yes on the bad solder joint.. My grandfather had a friend with a little experience with electronics open it up and he found there was a bad/cracked solder joint in the CDI. I don't remember the details being as it was 20 years or so ago, but he deemed it unlikely to be fixable, possible some sort of collateral damage from being run with the bad joint for so long... The new CDI cured it and it runs fine to this day.
Well i put the old cdi back on and fired right up!!! With the aid of a 200x carb of course. She has never idled so smooth. I had to move the airbox back about 1/4", and the heating of the cdi helped. I am still gonna try the lifan cdi when i get it. A buddy of mine has a 230 sittin at his place and i can grab the harness ends i need and ill solder/ heat shrink em to the lifan harness so i can see if it works,if it does im keepin it in my tool kit. This quad started actin up after we were out and got stuck in a rainstorm now that we look back on it,so im gonna clean it up real good and try and epoxy or silicone or somethin to see if i can get it sealed back up good...but im still waitin for the mailman to bring it and will let ya know how it goes.
Ok,like i stated in my last post the heating of cdi worked,temporarily.Went to start it and wouldnt hit a lick.So,i wired in the Lifan CDI,and whalla,fired right up,BUT,when trying to rev the engine it pops thru carb,idles ok with a slight "miss"to it.Starts real easy and idles ok but like i said it will start poppin thru carb.Timing comes to mind for advance,or the pickup coil may not be sending a proper signal.Tried a brand new coil and did the same. The lifan pickup coil is cheap enuff and easy enuff to swap so im gonna try one,and in the meantime im thinking of slightly elongating the mounting holes on the pickup coil to give me some back and forth movement(scribe the original placement first) to see if that changes anything. I have looked everywhere for the readings the p.u coil should be sending and cant find anything and output numbers to the primary on coil to see if there is any differences between the lifan and suzuki. Also im going to monkey with a 4 prong chebby module and a duraspark ign. Was also wondering if a capacitor on + side of coil would bump up input. I just cant figure what would be the deal,seems like if it starts n runs it should be good to go,or it wont run,period.Any input would be helpful,thanks...p.s.,got the battery and led lights and regulator/rectifier working on the 200x,and it works beautifully!!! Nice to be able to finally see good at night
RIDE-RED 250r
11-06-2015, 04:35 PM
WOW! Nice work thus far!
The only thing I wonder about is if the jetting of the 200x carb you are running is compatable with the LT230?? I don't recall, did you ever dial in the jetting after you switched to that carb?? Has it run properly with that carb before the CDI swap?
If you haven't dialed in the jetting with that carb, it's likely to be the cause of the symptoms you are describing.
ps2fixer
11-06-2015, 06:47 PM
First thing comes to mind is, does it pop or anything at all like the new cdi, but when the OEM one was in it? If it ran perfect with the old CDI, then the new CDI's timing curve is too far off from OEM, adjusting the pulse generator might be able to off set it enough to run alright though.
I had the exact same thing happen on my 350x when I tested a Chinese CDI on it. Put the OEM back in and idled perfect, and reved out fine.
Generally the pulse generator coils are tested by checking their resistance, never seen specs of what they put out while running since it would change with RPM quite a log I suspect. Generally the Honda ones run somewhere around 60 ohms of resistance give or take 30 ohms or so either way.
I think it would be interesting if you could get enough adjustment out of the pulse generator to fix the running issue, not sure if possible, but if so maybe the china CDI on my 350x would work fine if I adjusted the ignition timing some. It would give hope of a non-oem cdi in them at least :).
Stator puts out 70-75v running and pickup 2.5 to 3 v ac on both. I was considering a adjustable cdi box as well,and thought of a ford duraspark from mid 80s or a 4 prong chebby module...got to lookin on the net and seen it has been done successfully so i wasnt the first to think of it,and ironiclly one was a 230 quadrunner,but were a little vague as to how it was done. I also thought of switchin it to a dc cdi,that would be easy,also changin the stator and pulse coil from a floating ground to a earth ground type,that would open up even more options. Im fortunate to have a spare stator n p.u.coil for it,along with a bunch of 4 prong chebby and a duraspark box layin around. I just cant see spending $300+ on a cdi that are problematic to begin with,even if i had a $100 in to figuring out one that would work and more readily available
Yea it ran freakin great with the 200x carb on it,better than the factory one,never started so easy as it does with the x carb,and ecellerated just dandy. I found a grade 8 washer with the hole was the same i.d. as the x carb. I then lightly clamped the washer to the mating surface and marked the bolt holes,then drilled em out,cut the heads of 2 1/4"x20 bolts and welded them in drilled holes,making mounting studs like the intake has(before that tho i used a sanding block on mating surface to smooth it). Then i took about 3/4" of 1" sch 40 black pipe and welded it on other side of washer,skippin around with welds to avoid warping. Then i had to redrill mounting brackets on air box about 3/8" of a inch to move it back to take kink out of air intake cuz the carb was slightly longer, bolted it up,and i had to grind down the threaded cap on top of carb to same lenth as zuki and put the throttle cable in the x slide....boom done,fired right up n purred like a kitten
Just thought of this,that carb was tempermental off the x. I bought a new one for my x and set it aside.it would run good sometimes then start actin up....that was 2 yrs ago and its just been sittin there rapped in a wal mart bag so i grabbed it n threw it on(memory goin in my old age) The air mix screw is froze up in it also. Just for the heck of it ima snatch the one off the 200s bonecrusher just to see if the poppin goes away,if it does ill order one like i have on my x now...damm,makes me wanna go out n try it right now...lol
RIDE-RED 250r
11-07-2015, 07:27 PM
Well, your electrical knowledge base certainly out-does mine... I just suggested double checking jetting as it would be a shame to go right into the ignition system and find out down the line it was a fuel issue.
Carry on my good man! Still watching this thread with interest. :beer
Had it out today and boy was my son a happy camper. A buddy of mine had a cdi sittin up his place (a case of beer later it was in my hand) and i got t on and she fired right up,and my son could not believe how much more power he had to climb hills. The x carb definatly made a difference(I tried the carb off the 200s bonecrusher and it did the same poppin so it was cdi ) I will continue to work on a cdi alternitive for this,and the duraspark looks viable,also found a site where you can make your own,seems fairly easy,ya have my word if i make somethin else work ill do a write up on it... goin out in the mornin to tinker with it
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