Greed, Lies, and a Car Battery

[ironchop]

So lots of things irritate me like my HD Softail™®© rear brake rotor made by Sunstar in Japan placed inside a box labeled "Made in USA"......not that I don't trust Japanese Sunstar products, because I DO, but I hate being lied to or even the attempt at deceit.

So my dent side Ford is getting a fresh 460 and a rebuilt T18 soon so I was battery shopping on Amazon. I like Optima yellow tops for off road and for its deep cycle capability. I was checking out the reviews and the questions when I notice somebody asked why they used to be made in the USA but now are "Hecho in Mexico"

The reply he got was rubber-stamped corporate scapegoat for everything.

"Due to rising labor costs and manufacturing costs, blah blah chitty chitty bang bang pay up sucka!"

Let's dissect this so I can segregate the EXACT portion of this tripe that has me so infuriated.

"Due to rising labor costs..."

Boo-shyte.

I've been in Manufacturing and Construction, specifically skilled trades and management, for 21 of the last 25 years. I started my machining apprenticeship after I took time off college in 1990. Machinist were making $20 plus an hour in non Union or prevailing wage shops at that time and they aren't making too much more than that now. 25 years and gas, milk, and ground beef are four times what they cost in 1990 but our wages haven't quadrupled. Every single thing in my life is at least 100% markup or more of 1990 prices and yet our wages and those of a lot of other skilled trades have seen only tiny increases in wages, the lowest laborers are only making more because minimum wage was increased a couple times since then. I swear skilled welders make less now than in 1990 or their wages have remained flat for two decades. I was once a union carpenter until I noticed that my journeyman butt was sitting out of work and on the board while cheaper apprentices were not laid off.

I had the same reaction listening to Ron Gettlefinger lie on TV and say GM was going bankrupt not because of union labor costs as the GM board members suggested but rather it was "greedy parts suppliers and the costs associated with them" . I have worked in and ran plants who were Tier One and Tier Two parts suppliers to all US automakers and Hyundai, Subaru, Volvo, Mercedes, Land Rover, just to name a few. You want to know who the biggest cheapskates are? US automakers. Bar none. You pay $387 at the Stealership for an OEM part that cost them $11 to have made by an outside shop and a single mom of two babies got paid $9 an hour to man the machine that makes 260 of them every 6 hrs.

Degreed Engineers have also remained flat wage-wise too.

My owner-operator truck driving friends make LESS now. Fuel went up but their mileage pay level did not increase to match their increased operating costs.

No, labor costs have not increased substantially at all in 25 yrs and they are definitely out of pace with inflation/cost of living. Stop trying to bullshyte us. The middle class is dying. I get tired of doing my taxes every year with the wife and we look at each other and say "dammit, this used to be a lot of money. This used to buy so much more. Where did all that money go?!?!"

Cost of labor my behind. More like the cost of Executive Compensation increased and the number of leeches ("investors") skimming off the top has increased.

Its another reason I'm against a $15/hr minimum....when you raise the minimum wage, you get price increases to offset. When the cost of living is now more because the minimum wage is raised, you have done nothing more than raise the numerical value of the poverty level. When you do this without also raising higher wages, you have effectively demoted those people. You merely moved poverty closer to their income level. I might be looking at this the wrong way but I started out working making $3.35/hr min wage. It took 25 yrs, a lot of education, hard work, and certification to make over ten times that amount these days but with the stroke of a do-gooders ink pen, I might see my 10:1 advantage turn into just 2:1 overnight because I should not make that much more than the person who learned how to make french fries and whoppers in just two days time. He gets free uniforms, subsidized insurance, food stamps, and discount nuggets. I have to pay for continuing education and maintaining $10000+ in tools to do my job correctly and pay full price for healthcare......after all, its my fault he's poor. I had everything to do with his financial oppression. So I must be punished.

But I digress......the next time someone says "increased labor costs" and it isn't Walmart or McDoofus' having to pay, $15 an hour to stock the scented candles or to make McStuff doing the complaining, smack them!

Its lies.


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[El Camexican]

I deal with manufacturing on your side of the river, mine and the other side of the world and what I see time and time again is that the goverment is killing the US manufacturers. Everything with an acronym, particularly OSHA, EPA and the IRS. Mexico has small unorganized mafias that can be dealt with a lot easier that the ones the US Government has. Being in business and making money these days in the US means your must be bad.

Who in their right mind would start a small company with their own money and hire 20 people that can sue them on a whim and subject themselves to a $20,000 fine for not having a light beam guard on a 50 year old shear, or having to pay a $200K fine to the State because a few farmers MIGHT HAVE lied and didn't pay taxes on materials that MIGHT HAVE been used to build a car port instead of a chicken coup. Screw that! Just go buy whatever you were going to build in the States from outside the US and sell it in the US eliminating the BS that comes with being an employer.

Is it a good thing? HELL NO! but why should anyone swim upstream only to be caught in a net and whacked over the head when they get to the top of the falls?

The laws in the US are antibusiness, until that changes your jobs will continue to go to others.

[atc007]

All of this from 2 very intelligent,respected fellers. All 100% Accurate. El, besides his"personality". Why are you so against Trump? I seriously want to genuinely know. I really respect all that you have seen and done. His first weeks in office,,,which looks inevitable to me :),,,every single thing you said, he is gonna do his damndest to fix. He said every word you just typed,on Oprah Winfrey,,,,,just threw up a little bit in my mouth,,,,arrrggghhhhhhh,,,whew,,,,in 1987 I think,,as SHE,,yes she,,,was telling him, you're probably gonna be president someday. It's been bothering me lol, it seriously has, I have lost a Niece and Nephew over supporting him,and I find it paralyzing to try and understand lol. Guys,we all make mistakes,and hopefully, we all change and learn from those mistakes,so to hate him because he tells it like he sees it,or because he gave money years ago where he wouldn't DREAM of giving it today isn't right.. I think we have to look at NOW...JMHO,,,I say he had this all figured out pretty damn well 28 years ago!!! We are so gdamn accustomed to the same ol politicians in dc doing nothing,we can't possibly Imagine someone chopping fn heads and kicking ass,and if you think for one second he won't. You 're wrong. He will,and he doesn't take names,nor does he forget them.jmho lol. Sorry, this post really spoke to me,I have a enormously talented Son in your exact position chop,but a lil younger lol ;) Who can argue what this man saw and said TWENTY EIGHT YEARS AGO? Clear Back then,,Spending his OWN money running national ads to make America great again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZpMJeynBeg

[sledcrazyinCT]

Ironchop amazing when auto manufacturers complain the suppliers are gouging. To me that means the auto builders should have the incentive to bring it in house and make it themselves....but because what El Camexican mentions keeps manufacturing off shore.



ATC007 So true the nay sayers of Trump's true intentions need to see your three minute link from the 1980s so they can realize this is not some recent scheme to further himself personally. DJT loves what America stands for! The man is not perfect but his conviction to change some of the problems career politicians kick down the road is reason enough to give a successful outsider a chance.

I want to know who his VP would be and some of the cabinet members/military advisers he wants to work with guess time will tell.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZpMJeynBeg

[shovelryder]

Just crickets to add here...... But damn...... Decided I've driven old stuff long enough and was gonna get a new truck.....OMG! Times and money have changed! I'll keep driving my old stuff....... And I think anyone to run for pres should have prior military service.

[Jmoozy27]

Just crickets to add here...... But damn...... Decided I've driven old stuff long enough and was gonna get a new truck.....OMG! Times and money have changed! I'll keep driving my old stuff....... And I think anyone to run for pres should have prior military service.

Not only is the new stuff expensive, but its crap imo

[El Camexican]

Don't take me wrong Bill, I think Trump "could" be the best thing to happen to America since Reagan, but the way he says what he's going to do terrifies me.

Can you imagine what kind of a void that would leave in the job market? A lot of those "millions of unemployed people" you have up there are last azz (insert racist word here) that wouldn't work for even $25 per hour any longer than it took to claim a lower back injury. It would literally cripple the US economy and the Mexican economy at the same time.

We would have masses of starving mobs on our streets and you wouldn't be able to buy a burger. The problem took years to create and it will take years to undue. I'm all for a fence (but would suggest a shoot on sight policy myself as it's cheaper and would cost only a few bullets to implement). Let him build the fence, but then start a program that intelligently deports the wicked and gives the working ones a chance to stay. Lest we forget, the Mexicans were using your land long before your great grandparents sailed over. Close to half the land under the US flag was stolen from these peoples ancestors, its a complex issue that needs a well thought out plan.

Another issue is the 45% tariff on Chinese goods. Again, I'm all for it, but we closed our US plant years ago, as did thousands of businesses. I'm all for opening another one if it can compete, but we can't do it overnight, that takes time and if Trump puts those tariffs on overnight a few things will happen; The cost of most goods you consume will go up 45%, the Chinese, who have an abundance of your currency could deflate its value causing inflation and possibly doubling the cost of everything. They are vindictive like you can't imagine, and they play chess for fun, not Texas Hold em. Read the Bible, they win.

My only hope is that Trump on the surface is appealing to the masses with this tough guy fix it all in a month rhetoric, but once in power would consult smarter people to steer him from disastrous consequences.

I don't even want to imagine the bargaining power of the unions if Trump seals the borders economically as well as physically. If the Trump that we hear on TV becomes president I predict that I Chops battery will cost $1,000 by the end of his first term and it still won't be made in the USA.

And those my friend are a few examples of why Trump scares me. .:beer

[atc007]

Imagine my stupidity,literally....I forgot you were South of the border... It is crystal clear now! And since you aren't running lol. I'll stick with the scary guy lol. BTW, I LOVE the shoot on sight,that would go over about as good as the rest of his ideas have I'm afraid! Thanx for letting me see exactly what you mean bud :).... As for the"bums",,,,we just can't take care of them no matter who is in there,other than now.. Scary is the best word I can think of for the whole damn mess. But if anyone can deal with it in a positive manner,I think he will.

[atc007]

I have a friend that owns a salvage yard. I buy all my batteries used from him. In the last ten years at least, I haven't replaced any battery in under 5-7 years. { Service life } Keep in mind I have tractors,most with dual,one with triple batteries, dozers,etc. A LOT of damn batteries.He was charging me $15 a pop. I said man, they are worth half that in scrap and started giving him $20. I priced a new one a couple years ago and about fell over :) I loosely figured a deka would have to last me 90 years... I don't see that happening .

[ironchop]

Yeah I got some gears that look like that. I took the cover off because the shifter retainer was hammered on by a PO and it wouldn't come off. In the process of trying to put it back on, those snap-on nylon pcs on the ends of the shift forks cracked off. Couldn't find them anywhere except a mom and pop Jeep parts dealer on feebay so I bought like twenty just in case.

Do you have a link to that Indian gear source? I thought about welding and remachining mine at work. I've done it to other gears but if the quality of the Indian gears is good (and affordable) I'll go that route. I have enough side projects as it is.

These are in your orange Ford?

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[Mr. Clean]

Lest we forget, the Mexicans were using your land long before your great grandparents sailed over. Close to half the land under the US flag was stolen from these peoples ancestors, its a complex issue that needs a well thought out plan.



I thought we went to war with (Mexico) Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna over essentially Texas and the southwest and then signed the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, paid Mexico 15 million dollars and forgave some 3.5 million dollars of debt about 500 million in todays rate. Surely war was not good but it was not like Mexico had established a solid border and was organized so well they could manage that territory? The entire southwest was ceded in 1848, but Mexico did get paid and land was not stolen, sure the people who inhabited the land felt it was "stolen" but show me any shift in territory from one nation to another and ultimately the citizens are by product of the actions of the governments.




The laws in the US are antibusiness, until that changes your jobs will continue to go to others.

Yes our government over regulates business, but are you implying that Mexico is pro business? Why would there be so many people coming into the country illegally for work if there were new jobs and new business being established regularly? What country in this world is pro business?

Jobs go over seas for one reason, cheap labor. I see it every day at the mulitnational corporation I work for. Sadly when you add it all up it costs the same to out source as it does to employ domestic employees. I have employees in India, China, Mexicali, and BRNO Czech Republic that I deal with daily, I have no say in where the job is going, but still have to be responsible for their success.

[Mr. Clean]

And I think anyone to run for pres should have prior military service.

Interesting, I did look into who has served in the military and most have served. The current imposter in the white house did not.

I look back at great civilizations and many were lead by military leaders and inevitably that power and access to the military strength becomes the nations downfall. I think it is important but I want someone who knows how to lead and abides by the "law" they swear an oath to uphold. Having served in ones military does not mean that they are fit to run a country.

[ironchop]

"If the US wants to run guns into Mexico, they should do so.....so that us decent Mexicans can finally take our country back from the corrupt leadership and the murderous cartels"......a good friend, Mexican expatriate, and legal US citizen one Jose Arce Cancino once told me.

I tend to believe him.

That alone, will do more to solve your immigration problem than building bigger fences will. Most Latin immigrants I ever worked with would rather go home if they had a safe and prosperous country to go home to. Despite what we think, it isn't our culture or gizmos or glitzy facade that attracts people. Just economics and relative safety. They send most of their money back home and if they could export safety through a MoneyGram they would do that too. All they want is better for their families. They much prefer home and their own culture to any semblence of culture the US has to offer.

We can support them without our usual outright meddling and puppet governance that our CIA loves to do which ALWAYS ends badly.



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[El Camexican]

I thought we went to war with (Mexico) Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna over essentially Texas and the southwest and then signed the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, paid Mexico 15 million dollars and forgave some 3.5 million dollars of debt about 500 million in todays rate. Surely war was not good but it was not like Mexico had established a solid border and was organized so well they could manage that territory? The entire southwest was ceded in 1848, but Mexico did get paid and land was not stolen, sure the people who inhabited the land felt it was "stolen" but show me any shift in territory from one nation to another and ultimately the citizens are by product of the actions of the governments.

I agree that the deal was “legal” by international standards, but the money never made it to the people that likely didn’t condone any of what happened. Right or wrong the perception that the land was stolen vs paid for is prevalent on this side of the river.


Yes our government over regulates business, but are you implying that Mexico is pro business? .

Only to those with connections, it is tough for small guys, but nothing like what the US does when it needs money. I have seen some very disturbing practices where the government sizes bank accounts down here over a small perceived discrepancy in tax payments, or IMSS deductions, but what I’ve seen OSHA and IRS do in the States is no better and much more indiscriminate in their targets. If they knock on your door they will not leave empty handed. In Mexico they will if you’re legit and the fines for oversights are much smaller in my experience.


Why would there be so many people coming into the country illegally for work if there were new jobs and new business being established regularly? .

I suspect that most of the Mexicans crossings illegally are either uneducated, looking to conduct illicit trade, or wanting to get on a social program rather than work. This “seeking a better life” thing sounds noble, but there’s plenty of good life to be had here. In the past few years it’s mainly people South of Mexico that are crossing into the States, not Mexicans. They all get labeled “Mexicans” just the same.


What country in this world is pro business? .

China


Jobs go over seas for one reason, cheap labor. I see it every day at the mulitnational corporation I work for. Sadly when you add it all up it costs the same to out source as it does to employ domestic employees. I have employees in India, China, Mexicali, and BRNO Czech Republic that I deal with daily, I have no say in where the job is going, but still have to be responsible for their success.

In short, when a guy who didn’t finish high school and needs to be trained for a month to turn a color coded torque wrench once every 10 minutes demands $30 per hours plus benefits or he’ll strike it’s time to realize something is wrong with the system. I’m not saying any county has the perfect system for their labor force to excel in, but look no further than Detroit to see what doesn’t work.

[Mr. Clean]

Fair points.

India Engineering rate $20.15
China Engineering rate $57.29
BRNO Engineering rate $54.29
Mexicali Engineering rate $38.50

If the folks need to travel to the US for a couple months, the rates are:

India $74.29
BRNO $83.25
China $100.89

A domestic engineer rate is $113.50. To get hired here you must have at least a four year degree in Engineering, and there is no Union.

[El Camexican]

Jew want to talk about scary ? 50 people died in Monterrey Mex. in Jan. 2016 from the cartel or in undisclosed reasons already this yr. ! Sink or swim .......does dog sh!t float ?.......we`re about to find out !

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/120-people-shot-chicago-10-days-2016-article-1.2493741

If your trying to say its safer here in MTY than in the States Chicago makes the point for you. Lets talk about water quality now. Been to Flint lately?

[Scootertrash]

Maybe glamy was saying he's gonna go for a swim?

[El Camexican]

Fair points.

India Engineering rate $20.15
China Engineering rate $57.29
BRNO Engineering rate $54.29
Mexicali Engineering rate $38.50

If the folks need to travel to the US for a couple months, the rates are:

India $74.29
BRNO $83.25
China $100.89

A domestic engineer rate is $113.50. To get hired here you must have at least a four year degree in Engineering, and there is no Union.

This is going to sound like a copout, but I signed a contract that does not permit me to discuss certain aspects of my work let alone publish them on the internet, so I can’t respond directly to your numbers, other than to say I am surprised by a couple of them.

Most of our engineering is taken care of by the suppliers and all I need to do is approve or disapprove of the results that come from it. Nothing as high tech, or well documented as what you guys are into.

[El Camexican]

The TRUMP man come`th everyone out of the pool .......it`s a Baby Ruth !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPxiXGr9nFM

Classic!

[83ATC185]

I have worked in and ran plants who were Tier One and Tier Two parts suppliers to all US automakers and Hyundai, Subaru, Volvo, Mercedes, Land Rover, just to name a few. You want to know who the biggest cheapskates are? US automakers. Bar none. You pay $387 at the Stealership for an OEM part that cost them $11 to have made by an outside shop and a single mom of two babies got paid $9 an hour to man the machine that makes 260 of them every 6 hrs.

Having worked for 4 mercedes suppliers(which also made parts for ford/gm/many others)and the Mecedes plant itself, i know you are spot on there. Mercedes and even volkswagen parts are better built and inspected than any of the other parts we made. We once drilled out and re riveted thousands of seat clips on Mercedes 166s simply because they were made of the wrong type of plastic. Hundreds of hours were spent doing this.

I can also say there were probably more women there than men which was crazy to me when i first started there seeing as how it was a car plant. And everybody was getting screwed. 9.50 an hour as a temp, and 18 per hour as a permanent, with the usual promise of "you'll be hired on full time after 90 days" Which i learned after 3 years and different plants was just blantant chickentrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro I told a buddy of mine who worked at most of the same plants i did, "look around. they promised everybody a full time job when we started, but there's 400 temps and 80 full time guys here" That's how the suppliers make their money. We walked out the next week.

What i did learn is that are still a lot of people in this world that will pay the extra buck for quality( or sheepskin leather seats which are marvelous, btw...). In fact everyone should, it would weed out the crap companies and do away with a lot of chinese imports. People don't seem to realize that yes, quality stuff is expensive, but it pays for itself in the long run.

An inflation calculator is a handy thing spend a half hour playing with although it will make you sick.

And the T-18 with np208 transfer case has to be my favorite off road combo. If it wont crawl, you ain't goin.

Wise choice with the 460 :naughty: