1984 Honda 200es electric start / no spark problems...

[ATCRider1986]

So I picked up a big red at the end of last year it was in rough shape and half way dissembled (plastics and racks), I decided to overhaul and paint it all up. Compression was and still is 148 psi. I got it running prior to overhauling it. So I got it all back together last week and it fired right up after I cleaned the carb / new battery / new starter solenoid. The electric start and pull start both fired up right away. The next day or so it became harder to start had to tinker with it and spray some starting fluid in it and it would eventually start. It would warm up and stay running but would occasionally hiccup or rev high a little and sometimes would eventually turn off but other times it would run for 10 mins no problem. I never drove it cause I was waiting on my new tires, I did however have it on blocks and ran it thru all 5 gears and reverse. I went out the day after running thru all the gears and had nothing at the electric start, I jiggled the H-L-R shifter and it worked.... I thought i fixed it, well apparently not! I went out yesterday and the electric start again would not turnover at all, the neutral light comes on and if i push the start button the neutral light dims a little. The headlights work fine high and low beams. I took some pliers and shorted out the starter solenoid and it would turn over but had no spark and wouldn't start I tried this with jumper cables going to the frame and hitting the starter, same result no spark. If I pull the pull start I do have spark not the brightest, but a spark. I took some sand paper and cleaned all the connectors on the battery, solenoid, and coil. Took the handle bar switch apart and its all in contact and have continuity when I push the start button, and the kill switch looks to be good too. I've been spent hours and gotten nowhere chasing this electrical issue and I'm ready to go ride after doing all this work, any help would be highly appreciated!

[jonolanracin]

Sounds like you may be losing your ground somewhere or the cdi has went bad

[DohcBikes]

Actually it sounds like your source coil (inside the stator cover, sends signal to the ignition coil) is going bad. Very common for a bad source coil to show no spark when the electric start is cranked, but show weak spark when the pull start is pulled.

And possibly your battery, from all the cranking.

[ATCRider1986]

The battery is brand new and will still turn the motor over if I use jumper cables from the battery to the frame and starter, and if I just short out the starter solenoid. Would a bad CDI prevent the electric start from working? Is there an easy way to check the source coil?

[DohcBikes]

No, a bad CDI will not prevent the electric start from working.

So you have already started isolating the electric start issue. It's either the start switch, the wiring, or a bad ground as mentioned. Check the wires for continuity and resistance, clean all contacts where the cables and switch wiring connect.

Starting and Ignition systems are independant of each other, and so are your issues.

You can check the source coil for resistance, and dynamic output voltage (AC) or you can just go here and buy one to replace your 33 year old source coil. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ricks-Ignition-Source-Coil-Honda-ATC-200-ES-Big-Red-1984-ATC200-M-1984-1985-/351528341951

[ATCRider1986]

I'll do some more sanding on contacts after work. Is there a way to check the coil source resistance without pulling off the pull start and digging in there? I didn't know if there were two wires that I can check externally real quick with the meter?

[DohcBikes]

Yes there will be external wires you can use to test resistance or dynamic AC output. They will run out of the stator cover to the CDI.

Here is a link to your wiring diagram.http://www.3wheelerworld.com/oldsite/files/Wiring/ATC200ESx84.jpg


Better yet, here's a picture. Click to enlarge.

233219

[ATCRider1986]

So I ran some resistance checks on the source coil aka the alternator connector and the CDI plug and these are the readings I got.

Source Coil / Alternator on the stator side of the connnector disconnected
Yellow - Yellow .2 ohms
Red/Black - to either Yellow 385 ohms

CDI Plug
Green - Frame GND .1 ohms
Blue/Yellow - Frame GND 5.6 ohms and it beeps as if it has continuity... not sure if there should be?!
Black - Frame GND both key and kill switch off .2 ohms key and kill switch on 383 ohms key on switch off .4 ohms
Black/Yellow - Frame GND .2 ohms
Black/Red - Frame GND 46 ohms
Grey - Frame GND OL

And I still cannot figure out why the electric start will not work, I ran thru the schematic and checked all the wires got continuity in all the wires, the push button switch has continuity when I push it I did notice it would read -12V opened but when I close it it kinda jumps all over. I took apart all the connectors by the headlight and checked the individual lines before they connect, the only wires i couldn't get to were in the ignition switch, but all the other ends seemed to check out. So I'm still lost... Anyone with some 200es expertise please help!

[jonolanracin]

You said once that when you wiggled h l r shifter it started so i wonder if there couldbe a problem with that elec part sounds like your doing a good job of elimanating other issues hope you figure it out

[arlaunch]

New plug too right?

[ATCRider1986]

Yes, it maybe has a hour of run time on it.

[arlaunch]

I will go play around with my 84 Big Red a bit tomorrow and see if i can't locate some odd switch or something.

It is my wifey's machine and i never ride it.

It seemed to have a key.

I can check for spark with that thing on and off.

Maybe i can spot something?

[arlaunch]

I missed my window for dinking around with the Big Red.

I won't get another shot until early to mid August.

Sometimes these little things are so simple.

I hope you get it started before then.

[arlaunch]

Have you tried putting it back on the same blocks that you had it on when it worked?

Dumb Question but....

Lots of people have had odd grounding gremlins.

It seems by reading your original post that it worked fine on blocks.

You took it off and Bam... No Spark

[Gabriel]

Old thread I know but I am having a similar issue with my 200ES. I can start it ONLY when the battery is disconnected. When connected, the plug will NOT fire. Electric start works but no spark. No spark with the pull rope either. Disconnect the battery and it fires right up.

I'm thinking the inhibitor switch is the culprit but not for sure.

Thoughts?