CDI Upgrade

[GTP091]

well the old girl quit. no spark. after my rebuild it was awesome one pull and purred away. as time went on it wouldn't give spark then suddenly be completely fine. if i unplugged the cdi and plugged it in again the problem would be ok for awhile now thought nothing at all.

i bought a new coil no dice, cleaned all the contacts in the headlight, nothing. if i bang the CDI around it'll sometimes work. i bought a new cdi off ebay that listed my year and atc 200 thinking it would work i bought it and of course it doesn't. my trike is a 1984 200ES big red. The connector for the new CDI is the same round one on my trike but when i plug it in the reverse light immediately comes on. I've been reading all morning on this site about changing the CDI out to the chinese versions with the square connector. I'm wondering how different the CDI is on the 200x 200s etc with the round connector is to the round connector on my 200es? I'm pretty sure this is the CDI i biought . I know understand the 84 es CDI is a year only deal. so the CDI ihave must be for an ealrier bike? Can i just cut and reverse a few wires and still use the more common 200 cdi with the round connector? seems simpler than changing all wires out for the square connector. also would save me from having to buy a square cdi and square male connector.

Also another note the Pulse generator on my bike doesn't give a signal on my test light when cranking. DO it est this with the leads connected or disconnected? Seems the blue/yellow should give a voltage when turning over? wondering if I ground one lead and probe the blue/yellow or probe the blue/yellow and ground to the other lead? the continuity check is bang on so im pretty sure this is not the issue.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Disclaimer: I do NOT know for sure, but I would think that CDI's with the same round connector from other 200cc ATCs of the same year should work... Again, speculation on my part and I would be willing to plug one in and try it for the cost of a used unit.... The 200s, 200m, and 1st gen 200x have basically the same engine as the 200e/es aside from bottom end differences with E-start and in the case of the ES, shaft drive.

Aside from that, no luck just sourcing a good used 200es CDI??? That would be my first move if I were certain the CDI was failing.

[GTP091]

thats what i was thinking when i bought it. looked the same and was listed as a 82-84 200 as compatible engines. I can still find a bunch of these on ebay. but seems the 84 has a specific CDI for that year only yet guys have rewired in chinese units and just lose the no start if in reverse function. they must have different something, the reverse is certainly missing on the other models. probably 2 or so wires are in different positions. theres not much out there for good used cdi's new ones are $150+

on a positive note i just had it running. plugged the chinese one in took it off. put the stocker back in after tapping on the ground. first pull started right up. then i drove it 4 feet, put it in reverse and it died and then no spark again. I bet the reverse circuit in this CDI is part of its issue.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Hmm.... I wasn't aware that the "no start in gear" circuit involved the CDI. But I suppose it would be a good idea with an E-start machine that has some type of manual backup starting method. I've never actually tried to start my 200es while in gear with the pull start...

[GTP091]

Ok so here's my question then. How is the 1 year only1984 200es CDI different then all the other round plug CDI's that are available for the other bikes and how do I know if I switch to the square plug type that it will work with my bike If it's supposed to specific to my bike? Is it just the reverse thing and that's it? If this is the only difference then the round pug CDI I got from ebay should work. I removed the reverse pin from that cdi and the reverse light went out and elec start is working again but still no spark. The old CDI works sometimes.. Bike runs great when it does.

[Kingcricket]

Not much experience with CDI boxes but when I was swapping different types (5 or 6 pin) on my scooter they all worked the same as long as the wires went accordingly.

[shortline10]

Not sure if you know but the 84 200es CDI is still available new from Honda , I just bought one for a customer .

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Sorry GTP091, but you're asking questions that I am just not qualified to answer.

I'll step aside and let others with more experience in this area take over. Looking to learn a little here myself.

[DohcBikes]

Ok so here's my question then. How is the 1 year only1984 200es CDI different then all the other round plug CDI's that are available for the other bikes and how do I know if I switch to the square plug type that it will work with my bike If it's supposed to specific to my bike? Is it just the reverse thing and that's it? If this is the only difference then the round pug CDI I got from ebay should work. I removed the reverse pin from that cdi and the reverse light went out and elec start is working again but still no spark. The old CDI works sometimes.. Bike runs great when it does.Install a wire that connects to a ground to the pin that you removed the reverse circuit from on the CDI. Test and report back.

[Kingcricket]

You said when you put it in reverse it died so I'd lean more towards you reverse switch as the problems since it as to be grounding out or not grounding

[GTP091]

Not sure if you know but the 84 200es CDI is still available new from Honda , I just bought one for a customer .

well if it's less than 80 cdn ill go for it.. the old one is 30 years old so not a bad run. id hate to pay the same to switch to the chinese typoe just to end up haing it not work as good as oem.

the reverse circuit is fine on my trike. im certain thats not the issue. also it only affects the cdi when starting by elec start.

[DohcBikes]

Install a wire that connects to a ground to the pin that you removed the reverse circuit from on the CDI.

[GTP091]

Install a wire that connects to a ground to the pin that you removed the reverse circuit from on the CDI.

Well I'm willing to try anything. I take you mean when the original cdi is installed? Must be as the new cdi has no pin so wouldn't be useful even to do this. The reverse circuit works as it should I tested it and the light comes on correctly when in reverse. I'll give it a whirl and let you know the details. I'll ground the wire from the head light connection. This is where it goes to and then onto the light.

[GTP091]

Well now I feel stupid.By removing the pin I destoyed a perfectly good CDI. Now ill never know if it wouldve been useable.. it was only 20 bucks, case of beer ill never enjoy.

I opened the headlight and opened the reverse indicator circuit. Used my test light to ground it on and hit the starter button, nothing. Put it on the other grey lead and bamm 2 turns of starter and she fired rightup. Now it wont stop getting spark so I cant dig into the issue. At least im on the right track. Dohcbikes please tell me what you were thinking. From what I an tell by the wiring diagram on this trike the grey wire is the ground for the CDI? It goes to the inhibitor relay and seems a rather important cicuit for spark. Maybe the fault is in the reverse switch then?

[DohcBikes]

Well I'm willing to try anything. I take you mean when the original cdi is installed? Must be as the new cdi has no pin so wouldn't be useful even to do this. The reverse circuit works as it should I tested it and the light comes on correctly when in reverse. I'll give it a whirl and let you know the details. I'll ground the wire from the head light connection. This is where it goes to and then onto the light.No I meant the cdi you bought. It needed a ground to that pin to operate. The wiring that goes to your reverse light comes from the reverse safety switch which is a ground circuit. They are prone to intermittent operation. By directly connecting a ground to the pin you removed, it will eliminate the switch circuit as a culprit. I highly doubt you ruined your CDI. Post a pic of the new cdi where the plug connects.

[GTP091]

I used needle nose pliers to twist the pin off the CDI. No way to connect a ground there anymore. I'm not worried about that CDI it was cheap. I have a feeling the problem is with the reverse switch as you say. I think I need to put a load on that circuit so it doesnt short or is the CDI the load? I'll print the wiring diagram and take a close loo k at it. I've only used a test light so far to close the circuit. I could just temporarily splice a ground in at the connection for the reverse switch in the headlight bucket while I wait for the reverse switch to show up when I order one. If I remember correctly I need to open up the gear box to get at it.

[DohcBikes]

You arent understanding how it works. Your reverse light gets power by way of a direct positive from the ignition switch and the negative comes from the reverse switch. There's no load introduced to the CDI through the switch, all it does is make a grounded connection, grounding that pin. But yes, grounding that reverse circuit directly, bypassing the switch, is a way to help diagnose and likely will allow operation. That's why I suggested grounding the pin you broke off.

[ATCRider1986]

I'm having the exact same issue I fixed up a 200es, I finished putting all the plastics on two weeks ago and it would start no problem. Then a few days later no spark so I bought the square Cdi and still no spark. I grounded the grey reverse switch like DohcBikes said to do and the neutral and reverse lights come on but no spark still! I do get a very weak spark from trying to pull start but won't start. Any ideas?

[GTP091]

You arent understanding how it works. Your reverse light gets power by way of a direct positive from the ignition switch and the negative comes from the reverse switch. There's no load introduced to the CDI through the switch, all it does is make a grounded connection, grounding that pin. But yes, grounding that reverse circuit directly, bypassing the switch, is a way to help diagnose and likely will allow operation. That's why I suggested grounding the pin you broke off.

I do get what you're saying. I have studied the wiring diagram and know that the reverse switch acts as the ground. In testing all this I've found that my CDI is completely fine so I no longer need to do a swap so could care less about the ebay CDI. I just need to find out what's wrong with the reverse circuit that is preventing the CDI from getting ground. I tested the reverse sensor and it's wiring and there is nothing wrong there. I was not able to fully test the wiring to the inhibitor but think the fault lies there. The CDI will suddenly cut out sometimes when running in any gear and a few pulls with that reverse circuit bypassed and it's fine again. when hooked to a battery I can hear the inhibitor relay click a few times when grounding this wire (grey in headlight bucket) and then it fires right up with or without the battery connected but goes back to a state of no spark later on. I won't be able to test it for a couple weeks as it at my mothers acreage where I use it.

[GTP091]

I'm having the exact same issue I fixed up a 200es, I finished putting all the plastics on two weeks ago and it would start no problem. Then a few days later no spark so I bought the square Cdi and still no spark. I grounded the grey reverse switch like DohcBikes said to do and the neutral and reverse lights come on but no spark still! I do get a very weak spark from trying to pull start but won't start. Any ideas?

Clean the connections at the coil ( 2 wires ), nip off a 1/4 of the plug boot on both ends and reattach, ohm the wires on the CDI itself to eliminate open circuits, you will need the wiring diagram to find the other end to probe at. If the circuits were just barely making contact, a little bit of corrosion could move in after you hooked it all back up and cause just enough trouble to prevent a good connection. Use a small smear of dielectric grease! My problem is definitely a ground issue just not sure where it is yet.

[GTP091]

So I have the trike home now. The trick I was using to bypass the reverse circuit is no longer working. So again either the cdi is bad or the reverse circuit is grounding the cd input. The trike is dead. Just wondering if anyone can point out why a 200m cdI won't work? I've got the service manuals for both the 200m and the 200es. The pin configuration on both CDIs are identical. Would seem to make sense they should work the same. I could care less if the reverse light doesn't work.