1985 Honda ATC70 weak/no spark

[HoldMyBeer]

Not an electrical guy and going nuts here. 1985 ATC 70 been sitting for a few years. Replaced plug wire/coil, condensor, points, stator coils, cleaned flywheel magnets/stator enclosure, set point gap to 0.14, NGK plug set to 0.28. Getting fuel, getting air, have compression. No or weak spark. Plug doesn't fire but I can stick a screw driver in the plug wire and get a weak spark occasionally. Bought a Spangler 70 stator rebuild kit and nearly had a stroke after it still didn't fire. No lights installed. One wire going from the kill switch to the engine and one wire coming of the ignition coil tied to it going into one and plugging in the wiring harness. Any ideas appreciated, I'm at a loss. Thanks

[Kingcricket]

Probably you neutral switch in your gear box

[HoldMyBeer]

First, thank you very much for the reply. This is driving me crazy. Are we talking about pulling the side case off in that scenario? I shifted from neutral to first a few (literal) hundred times and the indicator sticking out of the case moves freely. The green wire with the stripe is plugged into the spring clip and deadheads at a male connector in my harness. Do I ground it at the other end? Bypass it somehow? The Spangler stator kit didn't come with that green striped safety switch wire so I pulled the old one out and threaded in my new components. Doesn't look like it does anything but obviously it has some purpose... I'm not finding much documentation on the switch other than people saying they can be a problem

[Kingcricket]

There should a a contact inside the case that grounds when in neutral I believe. Should be able to ground The wire on the wiring harness that went to the switch.

Just going by what diagram I see, this is mainly an issue with the trx 70 but just figured give it a shot. Other than that did you make sure you points gap is in time with your F mark on the flywheel. Timing is real important.

[HoldMyBeer]

I grounded the wire coming from the safety switch and weak spark either way, not enough to fire the plug. I'll recheck the points tomorrow (later today at this point) and repost what worked. It has to be something easy and I'm not seeing it. Gotta love it or you'd burn it and roast marshmallows on the fire

[HoldMyBeer]

I'll have to look at it and process that a bit. 3 wires in the harness, 2 from the coil and 1 from the condenser if I'm thinking right. 1 runs to the kill switch, the other 2 deadhead into an unused plug. I added the wire from the safety switch and deadheaded it into the plug just because the old one was that way. Have to research what I'm looking at, electrical isn't my thing but at this rate it will be. I'll post some results after I try that out. Thank you

[wonderboy]

Assuming you have the wiring correct, my suggestion is to check the timing. In my experience, just setting the point gap isn't enough. You really should check the timing. The manual shows a real simple way to use a test light to check your timing. Page 3-4 and 3-5 show how to use the light and how to tweak the point gap with a screwdriver (there are slots in the castings around the points that make this pretty easy with a large flatblade).

This process will have the added benefit of confirming if your wiring is ok.

Bottom line regarding the wiring: There really only needs to be one wire connected for the engine to fire: points to coil. The only purpose of the kill switch is to ground out this wire to shut the motor down. So if you really wanted to go bare bones (without the ability to shut the motor off) just unplug the kill switch for now and just make sure you have the black wire from the points going to the primary side of the coil. Make sure that the coil is able to ground to the frame cleanly, since the ground connection is required to complete the circuit to the motor.

[coolpool]

I'm with wonder boy on this. Also confirm that your key way isn't partially sheared. That can cause a whole other world of issues.

Note: There is no neutral safety switch on these.

[HoldMyBeer]

Keyway is fine. Neutral safety switch is working (even if it does nothing it works as it should) and timing seems correct. I'm thinking its a ground issue of some sort. Used a meter to check when points open and close and it moves as I spin the flywheel but it show continuity in all positions. Even when the points are visibly full open.

[gimmeamidget]

unplug both wires going to kill switch just for fun....should start without switch but wont shut off.

[HoldMyBeer]

The points show closed at all times with a meter unless I unbolt the lower coil under the flywheel from the engine case. Unbolt the lower coil but leave it hooked to the condenser and points show open and closed as they should.

[Kingcricket]

Maybe get some pics up of everything if you can.

Cause if everything is brand new it has to be a bad ground or timing.

Check this video
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DNEQfKv2FTxo&ved=0ahUKEwjIvZrevabOAhVrJMAKHedFB64QuAIIIjAC&usg=AFQjCNHqZ7SbhNKKDorrKGJKOJ4UdGaGKQ&sig2=xUAMh5LJy5zVwtpUfRGxRA

[HoldMyBeer]

I'm agreeing. Ground or timing. Hope pictures attach. The continuity issue with the points make me think ground although I've seen some people saying condenser. Keep in mind what I've tried, not to say I haven't missed something. I've been through 3 condensers, 3 new sets of points and two new stator coils complete with a wiring harness. Only 3 wires come into play. Condenser to IGN coil, stator coils to condenser. With a meter the only time I can see a break in continuity is when the points open is when the lower coil is disconnected. I leave the coil itself soldered to the condenser but I unscrew the lower coil and lift it off the case and like magic continuity breaks when the points are open. With the point gap at 0.014 and the flywheel on the "T" I can get weak spark but not fire the plug. And believe me I've set and set the points. Tight, large different places between the "F" and "T" mark. It has to be such a simple issue that I don't see or don't comprehend. It has to be... 233806233807

[Kingcricket]

Your continuity is going through your condenser. One side of your points are hooked to that and the other is grounded, so when you disconnect your lower coil you loose that ground to your coil which is also hooked to the condenser I believe

[HoldMyBeer]

I woke up this morning and I think it clicked in my head. Between the video link and an old post mentioning the condenser always showing ground it has to be timing. I've disregarded a test light because there is no battery but I'll use one off something else later to set the time and see Maybe a feeler gauge alone isn't enough. Thanks Kingcricket, that video may have been what made me understand what's happening

[Kingcricket]

Yea with that battery hooked up the light just went dim not off completely so there must be even a little continuity even when the points open

[RubberSalt]

What if it's the ignition coil?

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/content.php/191-ATC70

[Kingcricket]

He said he put a new ignition coil on it

[HoldMyBeer]

Ok. I admit it. It beat me. I'm done. Timed it with a battery and light like the video and still can't fire the plug. I've rebuilt all sorts of things. Take it apart and "That's broken" and replace it. I give up on electrical. Doesn't make sense. I'll post something when it's running. Thanks to all for the advice but as of now it broke me. This is why I replace points with pertronix igniters. Electricity = Satan. All you need to know is don't mess with it

[Kingcricket]

You'll get it hopefully important stuff may be alright now, look at the dumb stuff like not having the spark plug wire pushed in the coil all the way or having a rusty ground. Never hurts to post pictures of ignition coil either.

Maybe be better off just to clean all your old parts stator points, etc and put them back on maybe they gave you a 12v stator/capacitor instead of 6 volt.

[HoldMyBeer]

SOLVED!!!! It was the new IGN coil. It listed as compatible for the ATC70 but obviously not. I bought a new plug wire and put the old coil back on and it started first pull. I usually don't cry over 3 wheelers but I may have a little when it hit right off the bat. So I'll post the things that helped me in a separate thread later for all those people trying to get spark out of a 70. Thanks to all who replied.

[Kingcricket]

I think that may be a lot of people's problem. They buy new compatible parts that actually aren't and rack there brain going crazy. Great anyhow glad you got it goin.

[Rmac86]

I realize this is an old thread, but just wanted to second what HoldMyBeer discovered with the coil. Had been having some firing issues with my 2 70's over the past few weeks, so ordered all new points, condensers, coils, etc. off Ebay. Picked the better of my two 70's as a guinea pig yesterday and threw it up on the work bench, changed the oil, pulled and cleaned the carb, replaced the float, went ahead and tackled the new coil swap for now until my flywheel puller comes in to do the points. I had just rode it around the block and got it good and warm to drain the oil, so knew there were no issues with the firing system at that time. Did all of the above and when I tried to start it again it would fire but very weak. Pulled and pulled and would never crank up. I swapped the old coil and pulled once and the dang thing backfired from all the gas loaded up in the cylinder and fired right up. Replacement coils look identical, cant find any visual reason they wont work, but just wont. The fire the one I swapped out produces is very weak and hit or miss at times, not enough to fire the bike for sure.