What is Reverse Racism?

[Caminofeld]

Alright, so something happened today that pissed me off more than anything has in awhile…

First off I grew up in Baltimore and hate when racism towards whites is labeled "Reverse Racism"…as if to say racism typically occurs the other way. I can tell you firsthand this is not the case. The first, second, and 3rd time I got jumped growing up were by groups of young black males who were either residents of the section 8 apartments they built next to my parent's nice neighborhood or malingerers from Baltimore City associated with that complex. The people who got my friends into drugs and terrorized my middle and high school were black kids from "the bad side" of Loch Raven Blvd. Both times I've been shot at were by blacks in Baltimore City. The list goes on…

Funny thing is, despite all that I've managed to maintain long-standing friendships with people of many different races (including black) and never really held a grudge…other than a desire to get as far away from the city as possible.

So now I live in a fairly rural area, drive a big truck, and probably appear to be a Country boy most of the time.

I took the kids to the local market to get dinner supplies and noticed an out of place group of 5 black males in the store being loud and obnoxious. I didn't pay them any mind and went about my business. After we checked out they left without buying anything and I noticed them piling into a brand new Mercedes SUV as I loaded up the kids and groceries. Once again, I didn't interact, stare, etc…just stayed situationally aware as I have been trained to do. We left and had to take the back way due to a bridge being out and me needing to get to high ground for a cell signal to call the Wife. They pulled out after me and, after a few turns, I realized that I was being followed. Just to make sure I wasn't being paranoid I made a few more random turns and they stayed with me. My high ground was the local playground; which I knew had surveillance cameras and would probably have a crowd (which I hoped would deter them)…so I drove there with my CCW in my lap. As I started to turn in they floored it, sped by me, and the rear passenger made a gun gesture at me with his fingers out the window as they sped off between the corn fields. Were my kids and I victims of a hate crime? They really don't know how lucky they are to have sped away when they did because when it comes to the safety of my children I will absolutely use lethal force if necessary. My only regret is not being able to get a tag # (in PA we only have rear tags).

No real sense in posting this other than to vent and basically say WTF?!?!?!

[DohcBikes]

Does your training also teach you to question everything?

Would you be willing to entertain the possibility that people with unfathomable amounts of money have the resources and political motivation to create planned interactions between unwitting citizens?

[Caminofeld]

My training does not, but my common sense and skepticism do.

Hatred, fear, and groupthink are great tools for manipulating the masses…and politicians and the media use it every day to further their agenda. The trouble is, I don't really know who to trust…so I don't trust anyone until they prove themselves otherwise.

Some conspiracies are so big they're largely ignored because most people can't fathom something of that size. Start at the USS Liberty and connect the dots from there. Why did UNMARKED Israeli aircraft knowingly attack a US warship? Why was it swept under the rug? Why is the Mossad creed "By Way of Deception, thou shalt do war"? Sounds to me like they were trying to make it look like Egypt did it and let us go in to do their dirty work. Luckily the radio transmissions were intercepted where the Israeli pilots stated that it was a US ship but were still ordered to attack. Keep that in mind and look at 9/11. Read reports of the "5 dancing Israelis". Same idea? I'll never know, but anything is possible…

Keep your eyes open, watch you six, and ALWAYS read between the lines...

[Caminofeld]

A very wise Doctor I worked with once told me "The thing about being paranoid is you only have to be right once".

[knappyfeet]

I'm sorry..........you were not the victim of racism. Obama and the justice department informed us that there is no such thing.....nothing to see here.

It sounds like you were the recipient of payback for your white privilege.

Good job dad for keeping your eyes open for your families safety. More should do the same and be aware.

Edit......my El Camino

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[Caminofeld]

Thanks Knappy! That is a beautiful EC! 1971? More pics?

Unfortunately I sold mine a few years back because I was in a bind…but the silver lining is that I got enough cash to save my house, a 1952 8N tractor, and a "loved" 1986 350x. Crazy coincidence that the guy I sold it to was a friend of a friend that restored vintage tractors and added a "training wheel" for safety (AKA no longer wanted his "dangerous" trike). Mine was an '87 with a 383 de-stroker (400 block punched over with a 350 crank) and 4 on the floor conversion painted PPG Dodge 2001 R/T blue. The motor was going bad (I should have known that a mm of metal between the cylinders was not enough), but the guy had a fresh 400 ready to drop in. Sad to see my first car go, but I know it went to a good home and I know it's going to get the TLC it deserves there.

[knappyfeet]

Thank you.

Well....saving your home is far more important than any old car would be. It sure looks like you had a nice one there though.

There was a guy in Ramona CA that had a lot full of old 9Ns and 8Ns.....right off the highway. Last time I was up there I didn't see him though.....maybe he moved. Classic tractor fever.

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[RamsesRibb]

You see the problem with your thought process is that you call the group of miscreants a group of blacks. According to our wise leaders that is a racist statement. You have now judged them to be bad because they are black. And don't mention getting threatened or shot at because African Americans can not be held accountable for that as it is their culture. You wouldn't want to be doubly racist and deny them their prison culture would you. After all they gained this culture because the racist cops arrested them for being themselves.

[RamsesRibb]

Btw in case anyone is wondering I am a southerner and my forefathers were the original European immigrants to Louisiana. Down here we get a lot of misconceptions about our race relations. Whites and blacks get along just fine, but a lot of the youth have been trained to believe they are unfairly treated. Sure we used to have slavery. So did everyone else in the world. Historically about half the big slave owners in Louisiana where free blacks. Down here color didn't make you a slave that was something altogether different. Poor white people didn't own slaves either. A lot of white people were indentured servants. Many of them died while engaged in their work.

Our people are not generally bad but it is changing with the new generation. That applies to white people as well. Many slackers, druggies, perverts all over. I guess TV is bad, but good moral upbringing and a higher standard to look up to (i.e. Jesus Christ) sure does help a lot.

One trend I have noticed is that most of the troublemakers are not from down here at all but from big northern cities.

[fabiodriven]

Statistically speaking you should be nervous around a group of young black people. It's time to stop sugar coating reality, it is what it is and numbers don't lie.

If church is something to look up to for some of you that's great. Personally I prefer organizations that don't harbor pedophiles, and let's please not pretend that never happened either.

How about just being a good person and raising your own as such? Excuses have become such a prevalent part of our culture that we now need one to raise a good child?

https://youtu.be/Q1vXZKr2cAQ

https://youtu.be/iGTUcS-yQtQ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[83ATC185]

You say they looked like an out of place crew and your gut instinct was right...there's a lot to be said about the way people present themselves. I was pulled over once in rough black neighborhood, a 17 year old white kid in an "arrest-me-red" car, at 1am(i worked the late shift). I was cutting through this neighborhood as it was the shortest way to my girlfriends house. Cop sees me, instant cherries and berries, comes and questions me about what I'm doing and where I'm going and asked if i knew this was a bad part of town, and says, "i thought you didn't have a seatbelt on, as it matches the color of your shirt, and lets me go about my night. I could've been mad about it, but something about a white kid in a red car by himself in a black part of town after midnight didn't look right to him. I could've screamed "reverse racism" and "profiling" and made everybody know i wasn't doing anything wrong and got pulled over by a black cop. But the way i see it, he took a chance of that happening to him when he pulled me over but what if he had saved a life that night?

The problem with "racism" is that you can argue it until you're blue in the face. The cop in my story could be called "racist", We could argue the fact that the black officer is best suited to patrol the black neighborhood because he understands them and their culture better, and we could call that "racist". We can argue that the fact i called it a black neighborhood "racist" On and on and on.


I continued to drive through that neighborhood until my car broke down back there. Came to get it the next day to find busted windows and a missing cd player and broken mirrors and the 35 cents missing out of the door handle. Very glad it wasn't 1 am.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Reverse-racism is an utterly manufactured thing that doesn't really exist. Look up the definition of racism, it doesn't say anything about a certain group of people (whites) being the only ones capable of it, nor does it say other groups are incapable of it. Either a person is racist, or a person is not. Racism is colorblind, and anyone who believes otherwise is probably racist themselves. But I guess if we really think about it, about the only reasonable definition for reverse-racism would be someone who hates their own race... IE: Guilty white liberals.....The same white douchebags who take part in BLM riots....

There are examples of racist people that can be found in EVERY SINGLE RACE, and that's a fact. If you don't believe that, I'll stop by Never-Never Land and visit you sometime.

Sounds like you had a very close call with a random act of violence Camino... Very disturbing if their intent was racially motivated! Is there any other possible reason you can think of that would cause them to follow and then attempt to intimidate you like that???

[deathman53]

I am only gonna say this: during the Rodney King riots, who burned down neighborhoods, who pulled innocent people out of their cars/trucks and beat them, who looted their own neighborhoods, who burned down their own neighborhoods and who caused damage to their own local businesses................black people. You have to give/show respect and intelligence to others and situations to gain any kind of acceptance. By doing as the black people did during the Rodney King riots, it made them look stupid and less of people. Same goes for katrina during 05, they were shooting guns, looting stores- NOT of food and drinks, but stereo's, tv's????????? and shoots guns on the top of roofs and wondering why the helicopters weren't helping them out???? Yes......alot of the people that did this was black people. My parents told me about the black-out of NYC during the early 70's, guess what........black people raped white women, looted stores, robbed banks and even went so far to set stores on fire!!!!! Yes...there was white people in the bunch, but overrun by blacks. They are a product of how they behave and there is good black people(who don't want anything to do with the them) and for some reason, black people now are being taught to hate whites from birth. Also taught that going with their "posse", 5 in a car stereo blasting, bass so high that you can shake the road, pants hanging so low that you can see entire underwear and when someone looks at them in disgust and looks down at them, all they know is to take out their "gat", point it at you, maybe shoot in air and go peeling off. They should start to look at how they portray themselves before anything.
Yes, I got off point. Reverse racism actually has more to do with, requirements being lower to get the same result ie: job tests. Minorities and women tend to get curves in employment test, don't need to perform as good in tasks and aren't held up the standards that "white" people are. As how the white people feel that the blacks can get anyway with anything and never get any punishment, some even get rewarded. If a company is of a certain size that HAVE to hire so many minorities, even if they don't fit the standards for hiring, in order to fire them.....2 verbal warnings, 4 written warnings, 2 suspensions and then fired.....what does the black person do next, go to a lawyer and sue the company for racism. If the same scenario had a white person, 1 verbal, 1 written, 1 suspension(maybe not) and fired. Yes, most of the time, cops will pull over anything that doesn't look right. Reverse racism has more to do with the lowering of standards for a specific group, cutting them a break, excusing their bad behavior and giving them concessions that ONLY minorities get.

[x-rider]

Does your training also teach you to question everything?

Would you be willing to entertain the possibility that people with unfathomable amounts of money have the resources and political motivation to create planned interactions between unwitting citizens?
I know. Right?

[DohcBikes]

I know. Right?The turtles cannot view the shore from their nests. Rounded square, anthropology, peanut.

[RamsesRibb]

If church is something to look up to for some of you that's great. Personally I prefer organizations that don't harbor pedophiles, and let's please not pretend that never happened either.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As a clarification, I did not mention any organization. I specified a personal example of someone with whom no one can associate with any type of affront or crime against anyone. Jesus (even if you don't believe in God) cannot be denied to be an inspiration for good morals.

I was raised as a Roman Catholic but have since my late teens disagreed with the church on many issues so therefore am non denominational in organizations. The Catholic Church was hijacked by the Roman emperor Constantine 1700 years ago and I would call a secular control mechanism through way of popular religious beliefs. This is kind of the same way Islam operates. I am one of you so you should do what I say.

As a country we are currently moving away from religion because of this and moving toward a law system which has been hijacked by corrupt politicians who take away your freedoms to put in place a security net which it will use to control everyone.

So no don't listen to what people at churches say, a lot of times they want your money or maybe they work for the government. Don't listen to what government says it just wants your obedience. Question everything. I just meant that Jesus showed by example you can love your fellow man and people can get through things together.

We have fallen far from the enlightenment age, when free thought was sought for to now when it is shunned being crazy thoughts of racists, bigots, homophobe, malcontents and zealots.

[DohcBikes]

Jesus showed by example you can love your fellow man and people can get through things together.He claimed to have been the son of the creator of the universe and to have been birthed by a virgin. If Jesus was in Fact a real person, then he was egomaniacally insane, and a bunch of morons that were just as crazy believed every word he said.

[czac]

There was a guy in Ramona CA that had a lot full of old 9Ns and 8Ns.....right off the highway. Last time I was up there I didn't see him though.....maybe he moved. Classic tractor fever.



Me too!!! there was one for sale about a month ago, right down the street from me but it was a real POS... looked horrible. would love to get my hands on one though.

[fabiodriven]

As a clarification, I did not mention any organization. I specified a personal example of someone with whom no one can associate with any type of affront or crime against anyone. Jesus (even if you don't believe in God) cannot be denied to be an inspiration for good morals.

Anyone with your beliefs is what you mean? I understand your point, however the fact is that just because you and your religion believe that statement to be true it doesn't mean that it is an unquestionable fact.

My first post in this thread is backed by actual numbers, facts. I love, love, love facts and numbers. Keeping with the topic of this thread, which has to do with racism, black Americans are by far the most religious group out of any other race in this country. It seems as though they have already been "Jesus-ed up". So the race that is the most religious is also the most murderous, felonious, and helpless.

So at this point it obvious, by the numbers, that they in fact do not need more Jesus-ing. One could actually argue the fact to the contrary and use the fact that blacks already are the most religious as proof to back their point. It's in black and white.

Let us not forget who some of the most fanatical religious people on this planet are, those that live and die by their god and worship relentlessly.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I hate to see this thread degrade into another pro-religion/anti-religion trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro-show, lets not take it there. All of us as individuals have the right to our beliefs, and no man can take that from us. I am not bothered if my neighbor does not share my beliefs so long as his beliefs do not lead him to wage war on me and mine. I think that we all need to do better at respecting one another no matter what beliefs a person holds true in their life, be it Christianity, Judaism, Atheism, Buddhism, and yes, even Islam. The key is that we not attack one another for simply disagreeing on how the universe was made or whether or not a deity exists and by what name he/she is called.

That said, Fabs, to say that blacks as a race are the most religious of all is a pretty bold statement. I seriously doubt you would make that statement if you didn't know it to be true, but I am a bit surprised by that and will look into it for myself...

But one thing I do take issue with and with all due respect, I don't see how you can imply that blacks are the most murderous, felonious, and helpless race because they are the most religious. Of course I would call into question what religion calls for the characteristics you listed in it's followers?? I am not trying to sell you on any religion here, but ANY strand of Judaism and/or Christianity calls it's followers to treat their fellow man better than one's self. The same can be said about most of the eastern religions as well.. I just don't see "religion" as the driving force on the degradation of society... Yes, all religions are populated by imperfect human beings who make bad choices, and yes I am absolutely certain that examples from just about every popular religion can be found in the nation's prison population.

The truth of this whole matter and back to the original topic is that racism is born solely of hatred. Racism (hatred) is the reason that organizations like BLM and the KKK exist. Yes, one could argue that both are "religions" and I myself believe that to be the case, hell Nazism is a religion. But those are religions of hatred, conquest, and genocide. All of which I believe represent a significant minority of the population who could be labeled fairly as "religious".

Anyway, Fab I hope I have not come across in an insulting way as it is not my intent. You are a good friend, and I just felt compelled to further discuss some of those things.

[RamsesRibb]

Anyone with your beliefs is what you mean? I understand your point, however the fact is that just because you and your religion believe that statement to be true it doesn't mean that it is an unquestionable fact.

My first post in this thread is backed by actual numbers, facts. I love, love, love facts and numbers. Keeping with the topic of this thread, which has to do with racism, black Americans are by far the most religious group out of any other race in this country. It seems as though they have already been "Jesus-ed up". So the race that is the most religious is also the most murderous, felonious, and helpless.

So at this point it obvious, by the numbers, that they in fact do not need more Jesus-ing. One could actually argue the fact to the contrary and use the fact that blacks already are the most religious as proof to back their point. It's in black and white.

Let us not forget who some of the most fanatical religious people on this planet are, those that live and die by their god and worship relentlessly.

You are misinterpreting what I said. You don't have to believe what I believe. Going to church doesn't make you Christian. Your actions do. I hope you realize that you are judging the teacher of kindness and love based on your view of flawed people attempting to speak in his name. You don't have to believe in God at all to see that. Basic understanding of philosophy and the nature of man should let anyone see clearly that point. Unless of course trusting in human judgement to set their own ideals is better. Of course you know how that has always ended through history. Anti religious communism is directly linked to 100million deaths in the last century. No amount of religious war comes close.

The murderous thugs you speak of are not decent people. That fact alone means they are not Christians.

Black people as a race are not disrespectful evil people. To believe such would in fact be racist. Many black people though have fallen into the belief that they are being treated unjustly and through anger and ignorance lash out at white people and authority figures. I personally believe that the leaders they look to for guidance are the evil ones responsible for this chaos. And I believe it is a purposeful misguidance.

And as the numbers would point out that black people represent a majority of those crimes and persons incarcerated is a reflection of their popular culture which has been in a steady decline in morals for as long as I can remember.

[knappyfeet]

Me too!!! there was one for sale about a month ago, right down the street from me but it was a real POS... looked horrible. would love to get my hands on one though.

I just checked.......he liquidated all of them

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[RamsesRibb]

He claimed to have been the son of the creator of the universe and to have been birthed by a virgin. If Jesus was in Fact a real person, then he was egomaniacally insane, and a bunch of morons that were just as crazy believed every word he said.

Ignorance is bliss they say.

You don't have to believe in God to understand the point of Jesus' teachings. Not about who created the universe or what people say regarding his birth and death. I am speaking of the human teachings. Love you fellow man and when someone wishes you harm just turn the other cheek. Violence is never the answer. Those bunch of things.

Btw, I don't even think Jesus ever personally claimed to be the son of God. He referred to himself as the son on man. The rest was filled in to fulfill the Jewish prophecy of the messiah which is why the Jewish rabbis wanted him killed. Regardless of any of that, what fault of the teaching of Christ could you possibly have? How about Buddha? Krishna? You see, the problem with your thoughts is that people are not all wise and incorruptible, and all of mankind needs good examples to have a straight bearing in life.

The only religious figure I have serious problems with is Mohammed. And that is based on his own teachings and his own actions. Not those of his followers. Mohammed was not and is not a force for goodness regardless of what his followers say.

[RamsesRibb]

When I was around 20 or so, my wife and I were driving through a bad part of town and the car broke down. We were set upon by a group of thugs and a kind family who lived there (they were black) took us inside there home amidst yelling and threats and ill intent. We were able to safely leave after some help arrived.

Another incident was when I was cornered in at 3am by a carload of strapped OG's. Luckily the rear was clear and I have a heavy foot.

Another time I had a guy put a gun to my forehead just to say hi. Real funny joke.

They didn't do that because they're black. Just because they are pieces of shite.

[fabiodriven]

Cue the holy rollers....

Bring it on boys, facts is what I deal in. No amount of your judgement towards me is a cold, hard fact, such as those I provide.

Joe obviously no hard feelings bud, lol. I know you're a good friend. I am a very good judge of character and was looking forward to seeing you again soon. Probably going to be too sick to make it though. This is a debate of sorts. Same with you Ramses, just a thread.


I hate to see this thread degrade into another pro-religion/anti-religion trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro-show, lets not take it there.

I have stayed with the subject matter completely, my post has everything to do with the topic at hand.

I didn't bother linking or quoting any surveys in regards to black people being the most religious in this country because there was nothing to the contrary. I searched it and it's conclusive. You can look for yourself, that's a fact.


But one thing I do take issue with and with all due respect, I don't see how you can imply that blacks are the most murderous, felonious, and helpless race because they are the most religious.

I never did imply that. That's a thought I'm still processing. I'm not going to say I believe one way or the other just yet but it's something I want to think about. Not because you brought it up, I've been thinking about that since I posted. What I said was
One could actually argue the fact to the contrary and use the fact that blacks already are the most religious as proof to back their point. It's in black and white. My point in saying this was to point out that by the numbers, with black people being the most religious and by far the most felonious, which are both facts, Jesus is clearly not the answer for them.

I've dealt enough with religious people to know that you like to skirt around things, you try to discredit hard facts and denounce whoever it is that's shown this fact to you. Regardless of who I am and how anyone who is religious feels about the facts these are the facts; black people are the most religious American people and they are also the most felonious BY FAR.

Take that correlation however you choose, but I know how I view it. My point in bringing this up was to tell Ramses that Jesus is not the answer in this case, as he suggested it might be. Here are the facts to prove Jesus is in fact NOT the answer. Now anyone is free to retort with their FACTS to show that Jesus is the answer here.


Anti religious communism is directly linked to 100million deaths in the last century. No amount of religious war comes close.

Everything you said before that was pretty much filibuster, there was no point. Those are your beliefs which are great for you! However what you religious people need to realize is that this is a free country and I am speaking in facts here, not tongues. Now based on that statement you just made in regards to death based on non-religious people, I disagree wholeheartedly. To make such a bold statement you must back it up, so you better do some research. You know I will be so let's see what you come up with!

Jesus Christ, this man you speak of, assuming he's the head of your beliefs or whatever, or God or whoever you're talking about. Let's look at some numbers.

There is no way to keep track of all the different religions on this planet, there are thousands. I've seen estimates as low as 4,000 going up over 10,000. Now let's assume, for argument's sake, that 5,000 of those claim there to be one god, and one god only. Now assuming there is only one true, divine being and only one religion can be correct, that would mean that the odds that the one religion you have chosen to follow just happening to be the one and only true religion are very, very low. The numbers are five thousand to one you're wrong. My head is foggy and I couldn't do the calculation just then, but that's less than a one percent chance you're right.


The murderous thugs you speak of are not decent people. That fact alone means they are not Christians.

No it does not. That is your opinion. Please, let us deal in fact, in reality here. Is every one of you the same? Can we please talk in cold, hard facts with proof, please?

Black people as a race are 13% of the population in this country and they commit over 52% of murders. Do I need to repeat that? Black people as a race are 13% of the population in this country and they commit over 52% of murders.

Does that register to you? Does that mean anything at all? And as I type this, black people march as if they're being treated unjustly? And you're OK with this? Why? Because Jesus Christ told you they were good people?

This is why I don't like religion. You are supposed to be a docile, god fearing American. That's what they want. Why don't they want you like me? With your own thoughts and actions, your own mind? Because a person who can think and act on their own is a dangerous thing. You can say "Oh my God" while you're watching me knock the tracks off their tanks when the shite hits the fan. Let's see who lasts longer.

According to the Nation Crime Victimization Survey in 2010-

62,593 black people were the victims of white violence.

That same year

320,082 white people were the victims of black violence.

That's five times as many crimes committed by blacks on whites but this number is misleading as the black population is far less than the white population. When 38,000,000 black Americans commit five times the amount of crime on 197,000,000 white Americans then you have an actual number of black Americans committing 25 times the amount of crime as against whites as whites commit against blacks. Do I need to make myself any more clear?

The problem with you calling me and those who think like me "racists" is the actual problem. People who think your way are the problem because you perpetuate this situation we're stuck in. These are facts and whether you like them or not, this is the truth. It's not an interpretation and yes, it hurts some people's feelings, but this is the cold, hard truth about what is going on in this country. While you go pray for a solution, and pray for me as well which I'm sure will be the next words out of your mouth, there will be people, actual physical people taking action and some getting killed while the rest of the country acts like hurting people's feelings is the the biggest problem. If people's feelings are hurt that black people are by far the most felonious people in this country, tough shite, because that's the truth. If you or anyone else doesn't like that then take it up with black people because they're the ones making these statistics. I'm only here showing the numbers to you. It's obvious you don't like what you're seeing but guess what? I'm not making these numbers up.


And as the numbers would point out that black people represent a majority of those crimes and persons incarcerated is a reflection of their popular culture which has been in a steady decline in morals for as long as I can remember.

They don't need any more excuses, they are a product of their own actions just as you and I. Coddling them hasn't worked. This country has danced around feeling guilty for long enough. I'm a very white man and I am proud. I am sharing numbers with you, I didn't make them up. I am not a racist and if you're full of white guilt then go repent or something, but I take absolutely no responsibility for the actions of black America today. I don't like any race that commits over 50% of murders when they are 13% of the population. This country has gone to war for less!

Ramses I don't know if you watched the two videos I posted on the first page but if you didn't please do so. Then watch this one as well please.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssbRfZDMSGQ

[DohcBikes]

Black people as a race are 13% of the population in this country and they commit over 52% of murders.
What you mean to say is that they are CONVICTED of 52% of the murders.

First of all, over 1/3 of all REPORTED murders in the u.s. go unsolved. Add to that, murders that are never reported or deemed to be murders. Then, add to that the amount of people that are killed or die as a result of the actions of rich white men, and the numbers you report and lean on will change dramatically.

Surveys are most often created to push an agenda.

Just because noone's on trial, doesn't mean crimes were not commited. You, as an american soldier being where you've been, know this very damn well.

[fabiodriven]

OK Damon, one subject at a time here bud.

[DohcBikes]

OK Damon, one subject at a time here bud.I just think it's all bullshlt. It's all intended to divide us and make us think color has ANYTHING to do with it. It's already been said, but, bad people are bad people regardless of "race". I'm not denying that in some regions skin color is relateable to crime rate, but it's not the color that creates the issues, it's the socioeconomic circumstances.

[fabiodriven]

I completely agree but you don't have to watch your back in a white neighborhood regardless of your color. In a black neighborhood you must watch your back regardless of your color.

I work in Mattapan, Dorchester, and Roxbury, all in Boston and not a month ago I drove by a murder scene that took place just minutes before I went by. I go up and down Massachusetts Ave all day, just like I did today. There was some caution tape but otherwise business just went on as usual. If that happened in my town it would be a very different story. Those people are used to that and they're creating it. I don't like that lifestyle and I'll be damned if I'm to be criticized for disliking a culture that thrives on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RIDE-RED 250r]

John, thanks for the clarification. I have a better understanding of what you were saying now, and I do agree with you on a great deal of it.

I hope you don't think I am trying to skirt anything. I have my beliefs but I try not to shove them down other peoples' throats. I try to see everything through the prism of the idea of liberty, not forgetting that with it comes responsibility.

I absolutely agree with you on the point of black vs white violent crime statistics, those cannot be argued. Yes, Damon brings up a valid point, but the sheers numbers involved in the imbalance cannot be accounted for by blaming those rich white guys in my opinion.

And I did do a little looking on blacks being the most religious group in the US, and just as i suspected, you were correct. Admittedly, I am still a bit surprised by this fact, and its fair of you to ask the question as to why the most religious group is also the most violent. The only thing I strongly suspect is that the answer to that question is very multi-faceted.

You know I love to debate and talk politics, hope to do so again with you face to face by the campfire at Mike's! :) Feel better soon!

[fabiodriven]

Thank you for your understanding of my tone when trying to prove a point Joe. I don't watch the news or anything for just this reason, it's just not good for me. Every now and then there is a subject I will partake in and this happens to be one that's just so ridiculously misrepresented, it just reeks of a forced agenda. I don't appreciate the lies our media and government are purporting upon us and the guilt we're supposed to feel as many black people are up in arms while they themselves are the problem. Where I work I could be swallowed up if something were to break out. It's utterly laughable that black people would be uprising against white people right now when the numbers tell a very clear story of who they are. Maybe not all of them and I know this. I'm always smiling and friendly with all people I come across during the day and that doesn't exclude the black people in the bad neighborhoods I work in. Honestly this stuff isn't even close to being on my mind as I work, I'm not worried about it while I'm there, but to look at the numbers it is disturbing.

[RamsesRibb]

Cue the holy rollers....

Bring it on boys, facts is what I deal in. No amount of your judgement towards me is a cold, hard fact, such as those I provide.

Joe obviously no hard feelings bud, lol. I know you're a good friend. I am a very good judge of character and was looking forward to seeing you again soon. Probably going to be too sick to make it though. This is a debate of sorts. Same with you Ramses, just a thread.



I have stayed with the subject matter completely, my post has everything to do with the topic at hand.

I didn't bother linking or quoting any surveys in regards to black people being the most religious in this country because there was nothing to the contrary. I searched it and it's conclusive. You can look for yourself, that's a fact.



I never did imply that. That's a thought I'm still processing. I'm not going to say I believe one way or the other just yet but it's something I want to think about. Not because you brought it up, I've been thinking about that since I posted. What I said was My point in saying this was to point out that by the numbers, with black people being the most religious and by far the most felonious, which are both facts, Jesus is clearly not the answer for them.

I've dealt enough with religious people to know that you like to skirt around things, you try to discredit hard facts and denounce whoever it is that's shown this fact to you. Regardless of who I am and how anyone who is religious feels about the facts these are the facts; black people are the most religious American people and they are also the most felonious BY FAR.

Take that correlation however you choose, but I know how I view it. My point in bringing this up was to tell Ramses that Jesus is not the answer in this case, as he suggested it might be. Here are the facts to prove Jesus is in fact NOT the answer. Now anyone is free to retort with their FACTS to show that Jesus is the answer here.



Everything you said before that was pretty much filibuster, there was no point. Those are your beliefs which are great for you! However what you religious people need to realize is that this is a free country and I am speaking in facts here, not tongues. Now based on that statement you just made in regards to death based on non-religious people, I disagree wholeheartedly. To make such a bold statement you must back it up, so you better do some research. You know I will be so let's see what you come up with!

Jesus Christ, this man you speak of, assuming he's the head of your beliefs or whatever, or God or whoever you're talking about. Let's look at some numbers.

There is no way to keep track of all the different religions on this planet, there are thousands. I've seen estimates as low as 4,000 going up over 10,000. Now let's assume, for argument's sake, that 5,000 of those claim there to be one god, and one god only. Now assuming there is only one true, divine being and only one religion can be correct, that would mean that the odds that the one religion you have chosen to follow just happening to be the one and only true religion are very, very low. The numbers are five thousand to one you're wrong. My head is foggy and I couldn't do the calculation just then, but that's less than a one percent chance you're right.



No it does not. That is your opinion. Please, let us deal in fact, in reality here. Is every one of you the same? Can we please talk in cold, hard facts with proof, please?

Black people as a race are 13% of the population in this country and they commit over 52% of murders. Do I need to repeat that? Black people as a race are 13% of the population in this country and they commit over 52% of murders.

Does that register to you? Does that mean anything at all? And as I type this, black people march as if they're being treated unjustly? And you're OK with this? Why? Because Jesus Christ told you they were good people?

This is why I don't like religion. You are supposed to be a docile, god fearing American. That's what they want. Why don't they want you like me? With your own thoughts and actions, your own mind? Because a person who can think and act on their own is a dangerous thing. You can say "Oh my God" while you're watching me knock the tracks off their tanks when the shite hits the fan. Let's see who lasts longer.

According to the Nation Crime Victimization Survey in 2010-

62,593 black people were the victims of white violence.

That same year

320,082 white people were the victims of black violence.

That's five times as many crimes committed by blacks on whites but this number is misleading as the black population is far less than the white population. When 38,000,000 black Americans commit five times the amount of crime on 197,000,000 white Americans then you have an actual number of black Americans committing 25 times the amount of crime as against whites as whites commit against blacks. Do I need to make myself any more clear?

The problem with you calling me and those who think like me "racists" is the actual problem. People who think your way are the problem because you perpetuate this situation we're stuck in. These are facts and whether you like them or not, this is the truth. It's not an interpretation and yes, it hurts some people's feelings, but this is the cold, hard truth about what is going on in this country. While you go pray for a solution, and pray for me as well which I'm sure will be the next words out of your mouth, there will be people, actual physical people taking action and some getting killed while the rest of the country acts like hurting people's feelings is the the biggest problem. If people's feelings are hurt that black people are by far the most felonious people in this country, tough shite, because that's the truth. If you or anyone else doesn't like that then take it up with black people because they're the ones making these statistics. I'm only here showing the numbers to you. It's obvious you don't like what you're seeing but guess what? I'm not making these numbers up.



They don't need any more excuses, they are a product of their own actions just as you and I. Coddling them hasn't worked. This country has danced around feeling guilty for long enough. I'm a very white man and I am proud. I am sharing numbers with you, I didn't make them up. I am not a racist and if you're full of white guilt then go repent or something, but I take absolutely no responsibility for the actions of black America today. I don't like any race that commits over 50% of murders when they are 13% of the population. This country has gone to war for less!

Ramses I don't know if you watched the two videos I posted on the first page but if you didn't please do so. Then watch this one as well please.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssbRfZDMSGQ

Thanks, I just watched all 3 videos. I agree with everything they try to get across.

My intent was never to say that blacks need special attention but rather that not all black are bad and they should be judged individually by their actions. I will be honest there are plenty of whites that I would personally avoid as well.

I am not trying to say Jesus is the answer for the bad people. I'm am saying that the lack of good core beliefs is a root cause of immoral behavior. Do some research into the enlightenment. Thomas Jefferson had trouble digesting supernatural power yet he did follow the teachings of Jesus. Also one of the founding fathers stated the clear intent of this nation was as a Christian nation for only if the people where a good and godly people would they be able to self govern. Please forgive me but I can't think of who at the moment.

Regarding the statistics, I understand what they reflect. But they have not been broken down enough. What percentage of the 13% is actually the criminal perpetrators. I would guess that number would be close to the number not affiliated with religion or affiliated with Islam. In other words bad guys are taking the good ones reputation with them.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160810/7c93ad51604730c82d2b592f10bc384d.jpg

Please don't think I am a zealot. I just want to be on the right side when the time comes. My guns are loaded and I'm always carrying. I work on the streets in New Orleans and Baton Rouge and deal with this sheet every day. And I'm not pushing religion on anyone, just saying most people in general are very weak willed and give in to the temptations. The government knows this, that's why they play to people's emotions for everything and they turn it to their advantage.

[DohcBikes]

Thank you for your understanding of my tone



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmMRaUX-QSM



I believe I may have a valuable contribution to this thread at some point.

[Scootertrash]

In the end it just doesn't matter any more. This should have been nipped in the bud a decade or two ago.

For what it's worth, there are plenty of wealthy minorities CONTRIBUTING AND MAKING MONEY off of this bullshite, but hey, let's just blame the white guys.

More later. I've got OT to work. Millions of thugs, drug dealers, and criminals are counting on my "White Guilt" paycheck.

[fabiodriven]

And just yesterday I sez to myself I sez "Self, where the frig has Scooter been?"


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[redsox]

i'll throw my hat in this ring. Although i probably shouldn't. i've got more questions than answers. a lot of this is sociologically interesting stuff though. First question: How is "most religious" quantified? Seems a little arbitrary. its not like saying "tallest" or "oldest" or even "fastest." Thats like when beer companies advertise "most refreshing!" WTF does that even mean??

Second Question: Why do we assume equality where it does not exist? Thats the flaw here, in my opinion. Without judgement of better or worse, its unacceptable in this country to say that x is different than y when it comes to race. Black people ARE DIFFERENT than white people. Italians are DIFFERENT than the Irish. El Salvadorians are DIFFERENT than Nicaraguans. Its fact. We are all human, but we are all different. We're animals. Creatures on this earth. Like different breeds of dogs, there are different breeds of human beings. Now, its perfectly acceptable to say that skill sets and attributes are bred into dogs. Labs are good sporting dogs, huskys are good working dogs, etc, etc, right down the line. Now, there is the whole debate about pit bulls. I've seen the nastiest, nastiest, nastiest pit bulls on the planet. Bad Ass Dogs. Bred to be bad. Trained to be bad. Bad. I've also seen great family dogs that are pit bulls. How? How can this be? I'd say its a combination of genetics and upbringing. Of course, I say that about dogs. Not humans. Because if i said that about any subsection of the human species, i'd be deemed racist. But, and I think you'd all agree, its a pretty compelling argument, when it comes to dogs. Now, lets look at the combination of genetics and upbringing. You could take a German Shepard or a Poodle for that matter and beat it and starve it and train it to fight. You could do it and make a pretty mean and nasty dog. But it would lose 1000 times out of 1000 in a fight with a mildly trained pit. Its fact. Its genetics. Its generations and generations of breeding to accomplish a certain function. Its science. Remember, we're talking dogs here. Now, fighting isn't the only attribute trained into these creatures. Hell, if you took my husky and trained him for years, he'll never be as good of a swimmer as an untrained black lab. But put him in deep snow and he'll run circles around any dog. Breeding and genetics. Breeding and genetics. Nobody is holding a sign saying all dogs are equal. Why?

Third Question: Why is religion and race discussion so often intertwined? Is it a matter of caring? Caring for each other and fellow man and all that? It seems to me that that is the logical link. I don't see how its "hateful" or "racist" to point out glaring differences in subsets of a species. Am I not worthy of going to heaven if I say I cannot get sickle cell anemia? I consider myself religious. I'm in a transitional phase in my life and i'm still trying to figure out which way is up, so i don't identify with any religion right now, (and probably won't ever again) but i'm certain that there is a God. Who or what that is, i haven't a clue. But i think killing and stealing are wrong. The basic tenants of the major religions, i think, are solid. Judeo-Christian values, if you will. So, is there an internal conflict there? Am I a hypocrite? Am I a hypocrite if i believe in the basics of religion, yet i think there are fundemental differences in race? That seems to be what this tread is saying. "You love everyone and accept bad behavior OR you're a racist heathen." I don't accept that.

Out of time here, but i've got more to say specific to race/behavior/geography/drugs

[fabiodriven]

If you're referencing my comment in regards to "the most fanatical religious people on this planet" by asking how someone might be more religious than another person the answer to that is simple.

If you see an Amish person who lives every action of their day according to strict religious guidelines, or an Islamic person who does very much the same in their own way, I would consider both of those examples of someone who is "more religious" than someone who goes to mass once a year on Christmas but is still a Catholic. We have every creed in this country and, at least in my area, very few people practice their religion strictly and base their every action on the words of their respective teachings. However if you go to the mid west it's a different story altogether.

If something good happened to you and your words are "praise Jesus" then you're most likely more religious than the people who use the name Jesus more often in vain.

I get what you're saying. I get on people all the time who say "half Jewish", that drives me nuts. You're either part of a religion or you're not.

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[sledcrazyinCT]

Love the dog analogy! Amazing example that is simple to understand and relate to this thread

[DohcBikes]

If we were all the same breed then I would think the info collecters at Ancestry.com would have trouble using DNA to determine race.

Still organizing my thoughts in order to contribute a constructive post. We're covering a lot of ground here. Last thing I wanna do is spark a quote by quote post war with Scooter :) Overall again, I think the discussion at times perpetuates a divide, when really we should all just chill and delete facebook, maybe even throw our cell phones away and have more campfires, breathe a little bit before this place goes completely to hell.

[RamsesRibb]

I get on people all the time who say "half Jewish", that drives me nuts. You're either part of a religion or you're not.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Being Jewish is not strictly a religion, it is also considered a bloodline connecting its members to the tribes in the bible.

[fabiodriven]

In that case I may stand corrected.


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[RamsesRibb]

i'll throw my hat in this ring. Although i probably shouldn't. i've got more questions than answers. a lot of this is sociologically interesting stuff though. First question: How is "most religious" quantified? Seems a little arbitrary. its not like saying "tallest" or "oldest" or even "fastest." Thats like when beer companies advertise "most refreshing!" WTF does that even mean??

I Looked at the reference material and seems to indicate that the percentage of the black population which identifies with religion is higher than other races.


Second Question: Why do we assume equality where it does not exist? Thats the flaw here, in my opinion. Without judgement of better or worse, its unacceptable in this country to say that x is different than y when it comes to race. Black people ARE DIFFERENT than white people. Italians are DIFFERENT than the Irish. El Salvadorians are DIFFERENT than Nicaraguans. Its fact. We are all human, but we are all different. We're animals. Creatures on this earth. Like different breeds of dogs, there are different breeds of human beings. Now, its perfectly acceptable to say that skill sets and attributes are bred into dogs. Labs are good sporting dogs, huskys are good working dogs, etc, etc, right down the line. Now, there is the whole debate about pit bulls. I've seen the nastiest, nastiest, nastiest pit bulls on the planet. Bad Ass Dogs. Bred to be bad. Trained to be bad. Bad. I've also seen great family dogs that are pit bulls. How? How can this be? I'd say its a combination of genetics and upbringing. Of course, I say that about dogs. Not humans. Because if i said that about any subsection of the human species, i'd be deemed racist. But, and I think you'd all agree, its a pretty compelling argument, when it comes to dogs. Now, lets look at the combination of genetics and upbringing. You could take a German Shepard or a Poodle for that matter and beat it and starve it and train it to fight. You could do it and make a pretty mean and nasty dog. But it would lose 1000 times out of 1000 in a fight with a mildly trained pit. Its fact. Its genetics. Its generations and generations of breeding to accomplish a certain function. Its science. Remember, we're talking dogs here. Now, fighting isn't the only attribute trained into these creatures. Hell, if you took my husky and trained him for years, he'll never be as good of a swimmer as an untrained black lab. But put him in deep snow and he'll run circles around any dog. Breeding and genetics. Breeding and genetics. Nobody is holding a sign saying all dogs are equal. Why?

Everyone is different and races are genetically different and have different origins. But the equality issue is not about physical differences. It is really an issue of being treated equal by the system in place and to be judged independently from others which may look the same but not act the same.


Third Question: Why is religion and race discussion so often intertwined? Is it a matter of caring? Caring for each other and fellow man and all that? It seems to me that that is the logical link. I don't see how its "hateful" or "racist" to point out glaring differences in subsets of a species. Am I not worthy of going to heaven if I say I cannot get sickle cell anemia? I consider myself religious. I'm in a transitional phase in my life and i'm still trying to figure out which way is up, so i don't identify with any religion right now, (and probably won't ever again) but i'm certain that there is a God. Who or what that is, i haven't a clue. But i think killing and stealing are wrong. The basic tenants of the major religions, i think, are solid. Judeo-Christian values, if you will. So, is there an internal conflict there? Am I a hypocrite? Am I a hypocrite if i believe in the basics of religion, yet i think there are fundemental differences in race? That seems to be what this tread is saying. "You love everyone and accept bad behavior OR you're a racist heathen." I don't accept that.

Out of time here, but i've got more to say specific to race/behavior/geography/drugs

No idea because religions are not race specific other than they may have originated from an area dominated by a certain race.

[knappyfeet]

Where is glamy on this? Did he get banned again?

I better shoot him an email.

[atctim]

I'm gonna throw something out there that I see, but has not been discussed regarding this numbers game we are playing in this thread. Something to chew on if you will. I won't throw my opinion about this out there just yet - as I just want to state facts:

Percent of black children born out of wedlock - 72%
Percent of white children born out of wedlock - 29%

That is a pretty big spread and should speak volumes. I just wish people would be able to openly speak about these facts without fear and ridicule.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I absolutely love threads like this, where people can rationally debate and talk on a controversial subject and not resort to name-calling and insults despite the fact we may not all agree on 100% of the subject matter...

I just wanted to say that. :beer

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Tim and Redsox bring up a good point that I think matters immensely.... Upbringing, upbringing, UPBRINGING!

I am not saying that every child born out of wedlock will have a bad upbringing, or that single parents are incapable of raising a child right... But in my opinion, a complete family environment is the best setting to ensure a good upbringing for the next generation. The way of life we demonstrate to our kids leaves a heavy footprint on their lives and has alot of influence over how they lead their adult lives. Of course there are exceptions, but generally speaking I believe this to be true.

[knappyfeet]

I remember a quote from Malcolm X.........."blacks are a cancer on white America."

I don't feel that's the predominant thinking currently........expecially amongst the yute's of America. They are far less susceptible to follow the ugliness of the past. Black kids.....when given the chance....repel from the thinking of their elders.

If one was to watch the current media solely one would think this is the worst race relations in history....post slavery. You would never guess we have a black president.

[The_Steve_Man]

Racism has been around forever. The difference between then and now is cell phones and social media. We didn't see things going on in other places before. What was a local story that went nowhere, now is a global story with video. There is nothing happening now that hasn't went on for centuries.

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[Caminofeld]

Sure we used to have slavery. So did everyone else in the world. Historically about half the big slave owners in Louisiana where free blacks. Down here color didn't make you a slave that was something altogether different. Poor white people didn't own slaves either. A lot of white people were indentured servants. Many of them died while engaged in their work.


People also forget that Abe Lincoln and many soldiers of the Union Army sacrificed their lives to free the slaves (amongst other things). What about all the VOLUNTEERS that have flown to post-Katrina cities, Haiti, Africa, etc and risked their lives and safety to help black people. I treat every patient I have without prejudice (unless they're drug-seeking) and have equal disdain for WT. Don't know many racists, just realists that don't bury statistics for the sake of political correctness.

[The_Steve_Man]

Lincoln had no intentions of freeing slaves. The southern states started secession from the union because they were scared he was going to outlaw slavery. The war was about keeping the union together. He got pressure to outlaw slavery and after the war was over, he didn't want the freed slaves to have any rights, own property, or vote.

[RamsesRibb]

Also Lincoln wanted to ship the freed slaves to Liberia in Africa which was actually created for that purpose. (The former slaves that actually landed there decided the best course of action was to capture the natives and enslave them. Look it up)

Lincoln is the guy who gave us the overbearing federal government. We could have avoided war all together and offer compensatory relief on the freeing of slaves similar to what happened in South America. The war was based on federal vs state and Progressive Republican vs conservative democrats.

If Lincoln was alive today he would be right there with Obama and the Clintons

[RamsesRibb]

As I've stated earlier, my family has been here for many generations and were the first settlers where i live. We have our own dialect of French which blends in African and Indian language. My grandfather used to refer to people from the north as Americans. Apparently he thought he was still French. I had family that died in the civil war, a great+++grand father was a POW for 3 years there l, some made it home. They were not rich men but had small family farms. They didn't fight for slavery, they fought for our heritage and our culture. In fact 1 slave would cost more than your home.

Kind of the same situation with the Indians. Some people say that Europeans came and destroyed their civilization. A lot of them were anything but civil. One of my forefathers was actually beheaded in the early 1700's about an hour from where I live along with all the other men in the village. The woman and children were taken as slaves by the Indians. That tribe was destroyed for the most part by a garrison from New Orleans and another tribe of Indians who were allies with the Europeans.

[redsox]

I Looked at the reference material and seems to indicate that the percentage of the black population which identifies with religion is higher than other races.

I have trouble, in a discussion of fact, with qualifiers like "seems to indicate" and "which identifies with." You can make stats dance in any direction you like, especially with lawyerspeak like that. Getting all dressed up for a fashion show/sing along once a week for 45 minutes is not the same as living a life dedicated to a set of rules and ideals. Especially if you live the other six days like a dirtbag. Fabios example of the Amish is exactly what I had in mind when I was questioning the "Blacks are the most religious" claim. Here are a people that truly live their beliefs. Right or wrong, every minute of every day, they're in it. I remember watching an interview of a woman who's kid had been killed in that mass shooting at the Amish elementary school a few years back. i think it was in rural Pennsylvania, but i could be wrong. Anyway, she was standing there saying, "God chose us for this because he knew our faith could handle it. Who better than us to bear this burden. Who better than us." WOWZA!! Are you kidding me? Your kid just got blasted and you're THANKING GOD??? Thats faith man. Thats the most religious. When discussing who's more religious, i would think a "show me don't tell me" standard would apply. If that standard would apply, and statistically speaking, one were to quantify the number of commandments adhered to in a calendar year, than i think the results of your google search for most religious would be quite different.

"Theres a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning." -Jimmy Buffett



Everyone is different and races are genetically different and have different origins. But the equality issue is not about physical differences. It is really an issue of being treated equal by the system in place and to be judged independently from others which may look the same but not act the same.

its not only physical differences, its behavioral differences. As referenced in the dog example above, different breeds BEHAVE differently. There is a behavorial inequality, if you will. (dogs) So "the system" should treat equally things that are not equal? Isn't that the antithesis of affirmative action and other "level the playing field" programs? Why do Indian kids crush it in the spelling bee?? Because they're better at spelling, man! They're not equal to everyone else, they're better. Is that a physical difference?? Or behavioral? Is that racist to say? or reverse racist? I'm not advocating they give little irish kids easier words to spell so they can compete. Thats ludicrous. But thats exactly the same as whats happening with the Government.

[fabiodriven]

Again to clarify further about "the most religious", I wasn't referring to black people as practicing what they preach like the Amish for example. I just meant in sheer numbers of how many claim to be religious.

This is something I first noticed years ago when I joined the army.


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[atctim]

its not only physical differences, its behavioral differences. As referenced in the dog example above, different breeds BEHAVE differently. There is a behavorial inequality, if you will. (dogs) So "the system" should treat equally things that are not equal? Isn't that the antithesis of affirmative action and other "level the playing field" programs? Why do Indian kids crush it in the spelling bee?? Because they're better at spelling, man! They're not equal to everyone else, they're better. Is that a physical difference?? Or behavioral? Is that racist to say? or reverse racist? I'm not advocating they give little irish kids easier words to spell so they can compete. Thats ludicrous. But thats exactly the same as whats happening with the Government.

I could not agree more. Very well stated. This whole "equality" movement, weather it be employment, or gender, or racial, or economical, or behavioral is really ridiculous and over reaching by our gubment. It CAN NOT work, and it does not work. If anything it makes it less fair rather than more fair. You can not paint everyone with the same wide brush. You'll run into a brick wall every time you try to apply the same rules for everyone in a mixed society - ie the USA - a "Melting Pot" of cultures. I'm not advocating segregation or anything like that. It just doesn't work trying to apply "equality" to everything under the sun. It kind of brings to light the problems with Unions. The hardest working guy who shows up an hour early, and knows his job in and out, and is super efficient at what he does, gets paid less than the lazy no-good guy who has been there for 40 years, does horrible work, is inefficient, but gets paid more due to "seniority.

Let me share with you a shining example of how this "actually" works. I live in an Amish community. I would estimate that 30% to 40% of my community is Amish, and the remaining are white "English" folk. Keep in mind, these are "Old World Amish" whereas they are subjected to the strictest of Amish rules. No electric, no phones, no mirrors, no zippers, kerosene lights on their buggies, and no alcohol or tobacco use (whereas a neighboring Amish community is a bit more relaxed and they can have electric flashing lights and mirrors on their buggies and smoke tobacco and have cell phones). These people have "Outhouses" for bathrooms. Now - you have some of these up-tight, "what's good for them is good for me" types that are absolutely throwing a fit to the township because they are not subjected to the same regulatory septic rules we English are. In reality, the Amish would have to spend tens of thousands of dollars to get connected to the septic lines, or install private septic systems. Is it fair to the English because they have to? No. But on the other hand, it is against their religion to have "running water" and modern conveniences such as a flushable toilet. So that is like the most basic example or this new buzz word - "Inequality" and how it will do nothing but upset people and their day to day lives. The current "Administration" should be addressing real problems like this, but instead are turning it into "racial warefare" by pitting blacks against whites. The gubment is too big to see things for what they are. This is partially what is wrong with the entire "Racism" movement that in my eyes is completely orchestrated by our President, who by the way is not African American. His mother was white BTW.

[RamsesRibb]

And the president's father was from Africa and not related in anyway to American slaves. He was however a nationalist spy who served prison time for that. The white grandparents were on the communist watch list here also. He then went on to be raised by a communist mother and an Indonesian Muslim step father. Later groomed by a black panther.

[RamsesRibb]

I have trouble, in a discussion of fact, with qualifiers like "seems to indicate" and "which identifies with." You can make stats dance in any direction you like, especially with lawyerspeak like that. Getting all dressed up for a fashion show/sing along once a week for 45 minutes is not the same as living a life dedicated to a set of rules and ideals. Especially if you live the other six days like a dirtbag. Fabios example of the Amish is exactly what I had in mind when I was questioning the "Blacks are the most religious" claim. Here are a people that truly live their beliefs. Right or wrong, every minute of every day, they're in it. I remember watching an interview of a woman who's kid had been killed in that mass shooting at the Amish elementary school a few years back. i think it was in rural Pennsylvania, but i could be wrong. Anyway, she was standing there saying, "God chose us for this because he knew our faith could handle it. Who better than us to bear this burden. Who better than us." WOWZA!! Are you kidding me? Your kid just got blasted and you're THANKING GOD??? Thats faith man. Thats the most religious. When discussing who's more religious, i would think a "show me don't tell me" standard would apply. If that standard would apply, and statistically speaking, one were to quantify the number of commandments adhered to in a calendar year, than i think the results of your google search for most religious would be quite different.
I was merely saying that the numbers may be misleading. Saying that as a whole they are the most religious may or may not be true as far as adherence is concerned. I would say that is false.

I was trying to point out that as far as races in the US go they have the highest percentage claiming religion. Again that can be misleading.

It is more likely a small percentage of the black population involved in the majority of crimes. And I would bet unless shown proof otherwise that they are among the percent not giving a damn about religion. The ones with no care in the world.

It is possible that there are also people who claim to be religious and maybe go to church or whatever and are just putting on a horse and pony show, and they are criminal masterminds.

Keep in mind that crimes vary widely in nature and I am only concerned with violent crimes and the crimes that affect others around them.


its not only physical differences, its behavioral differences. As referenced in the dog example above, different breeds BEHAVE differently. There is a behavorial inequality, if you will. (dogs) So "the system" should treat equally things that are not equal? Isn't that the antithesis of affirmative action and other "level the playing field" programs? Why do Indian kids crush it in the spelling bee?? Because they're better at spelling, man! They're not equal to everyone else, they're better. Is that a physical difference?? Or behavioral? Is that racist to say? or reverse racist? I'm not advocating they give little irish kids easier words to spell so they can compete. Thats ludicrous. But thats exactly the same as whats happening with the Government.
I really believe that the behavior patterns that are problematic are street culture oriented and coming from broken homes with no baby daddy and a crackhead mama.

I see plenty of blacks from africa that speak better English and are professionals.

I guess I will backtrack a bit in my thoughts a bit here though. In my dealings they do seem to be apt to cheating on their spouses more than whites. This would be a root of baby mama syndrome. I even read where the Catholic Church even allows African priests to marry because supposedly they are unable to resist sexual temptations. Hmm. This will require more thought.

[DohcBikes]

Caminofeld, I have a lot of respect for you after reading your posts the past few years. You have your eyes open. Sometimes, however, details can give away the coordinates to a person's vantage point.


something happened today that pissed me off more than anything has in awhileIt didn't piss you off, it triggered fear. which later turned to anger because of your inability to interpret and control the fear. I have no doubt that a man such as yourself might try to deny this, but it's blatant. Fear promts retreat, which is what you did. Anger prompts confrontation, which is what this thread is.


I grew up in Baltimore and hate Probably not the best word to start out a plea towards an unbiased reflection.


The first, second, and 3rd time I got jumped growing up Fool me twice...


were by groups of young black males who were either residents of the section 8 apartments they built next to my parent's nice neighborhoodSome poor kids jumped a rich kid. It had nothing to do with you being white, it had everything to do with the fact that you were an easy target. Having grown up a truly poor kid, I can tell you who wins that fight, almost every time. Reference the sport of boxing and the socioeconomic beginnings of the majority of fighters, if you have any doubt.


The people who got my friends into drugs and terrorized my middle and high school were black kidsYour friends were all black kids? Because that's the ONLY way black kids got your friends into drugs. If you want black people to take responsibility for themselves, you have to hold your upper middle class white buddies accountable for their own weaknesses and decisions. Unless they were kidnapped and forced into a regiment of drugs, your claim is ridiculous. They got themselves into drugs. How dare you blame anyone else for their indiscretion!


despite all that I've managed to maintain long-standing friendships with people of many different races (including black) and never really held a grudgeYes you have. That's why you continue to blame blacks for your buddies doing drugs. That's also why a group of blacks at a store scared you into going into flight mode.


I took the kids to the local market to get dinner supplies and noticed an out of place group of 5 black males in the store being loud and obnoxiousOut of place how? They didn't meet your criteria for a normal shopper? Loud and obnoxious is subjective. Can you be more detailed as to what they were doing? It's not a library, it's a store. Also, what does this have to do with them being black? Go to youtube, lookup "public freakout" and witness all kinds of people losing their minds.


I didn't pay them any mind and went about my business.Noticed, but paid no mind, is a paradox. If you "noticed them" and took note of their "loud and obnoxious" actions, you did pay them some mind, and you likely changed your behavior and body language, and they saw it.


After we checked out they left without buying anything and I noticed them piling into a brand new Mercedes SUV as I loaded up the kids and groceries. Once again, I didn't interact, stare, etc…just stayed situationally aware as I have been trained to do. You've been trained to stay situationally aware of shoppers getting into their cars? Interesting. Sounds to me like you were at least mentally fixated on them, and likely visually as well. Otherwise you can't claim that you were situationally aware. That's a LOT of energy you were spending thinking about them by this time. If they didn't feel that type of energy, they weren't human.


They pulled out after me and, after a few turns, I realized that I was being followed. Just to make sure I wasn't being paranoid I made a few more random turns and they stayed with me. My high ground was the local playground; which I knew had surveillance cameras and would probably have a crowd (which I hoped would deter them)…so I drove there with my CCW in my lap. You weren't being paranoid? Well uh, you were heading for "high ground" with cameras and a crowd which you "hoped would deter them" with a gun on on your lap. You'll have to forgive me but it sounds to me like you were scared shltless of these dudes, and they hadn't even said a word to you.


As I started to turn in they floored it, sped by me, and the rear passenger made a gun gesture at me with his fingers out the window as they sped off between the corn fields.Ok, so? There's a damn good chance that by the time they had been profiled and situationally categorized as a threat with no basis that they felt it would be appropriate and quite frankly entertaining to qualify your fears. There's also a very strong possibility that it meant absolutely nothing, and that you're blowing the encounter out of proportion.


Were my kids and I victims of a hate crime?NO. You were a victim of irrational fear, and your kids were students of that line of thinking.


They really don't know how lucky they are to have sped away when they did Tough guy! Ever shot anyone? If these guys that scared you so much actually were something to be afraid of, riding around in a brand new mercedes, weilding your peashooter would likely do nothing but guarantee you and your children's demise. You were far outnumbered by capable assailants. If you had a real fear that they were stalking prey, your only option to protect your family was to run.


My only regret is not being able to get a tag # (in PA we only have rear tags).What would you have done? Reported them for shooting you with his finger gun? LOL.

They sensed your fear and played on it. Nothing more, nothing less. Was it wrong of them? Yep. Was it racism? Nah, just nature.

This post oughta get you guys going. Chances are you will misinterpret my position on racism because of my opinion of the encounter. There's just honestly SO much to say here about race and class that I'm having trouble finding a place to begin. As a kid that grew up desperately poor, I fit every single stereotype that gets planted on poor black kids. It's ALL about money, and the anger that the "have nots" harbor for the "haves". My position on such matters is generally one of solidarity in this particular forum, because like to hear it, admit it or not, the vast majority of you guys come from at least moderately affluent background, and have no place of observation to begin to empathize with those that do not. It's two completely different worlds. I could describe levels of poverty that would cause you to look down on me, probably already have. I've been starved and beaten, witnessed intravenous drug use beginning at the earliest age of memory, raised in rathole trailer parks where getting into fights, selling drugs and stealing was just a normal every day occurance. My outlook and observation is bound to be different than the vast majority of members here, and I honestly don't have the energy to fight my way out of a circle of people that can only look to the other side of that circle and see another rich white dude with the same amount of fear as the next.


I noticed them........ Once again, I didn't interact How bout next time, try saying Hi guys! Have a great day!

If you're not too scared.

[DohcBikes]

Lincoln is the guy who gave us the overbearing federal government. We could have avoided war all together and offer compensatory relief on the freeing of slaves similar to what happened in South America. The war was based on federal vs state and Progressive Republican vs conservative democrats.

If Lincoln was alive today he would be right there with Obama and the ClintonsYou got it buddy.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that." -Abraham Lincoln-

[RamsesRibb]

Content deleted

[Scootertrash]

"moderately affluent background"?

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Damon, you have the right to your opinion, absolutely. But I think you are stepping out of line in saying that the vast majority of the membership here grew up moderately affluent. I don't believe how much money a family has makes a damn bit of difference as to whether they "behave" or not. There are plenty of absolutely great people who are "poor" and there is also no shortage of complete asswipes who are "affluent".

Not that it's anyone's business but just saying, I was raised the eldest of four kids in a single income home of a wire mill worker... A very affluent 25K a year. No I didn't have it as tough as you growing up, but I know what it's like to not have much..What made me the man I am today is how my parents raised us, not how much or how little money dad made when we were growing up. My parents always put us kids first with everything they did.

Maybe I just took some DOHC bait on this that was intended to stir things up more..maybe not. I just think you are off base to assert that it's all about the money. That statement is pretty close to saying people who are poor get a pass for deciding to be criminals because they are jealous and have the right to act out....BS. Good morals cannot be bought, they are taught.

[fabiodriven]

I was helped out slightly by my older brother on my very first bikes and they were dinosaurs compared to what most everyone else was riding. I was given a Nissan pickup from my uncle and the tranny fell out on the way home. I got $35 for the truck. I was also given my grandfather's 82 Mercury Cougar. Definitely the worst Cougar ever produced, wasn't worth anything at all. Everything I have has all been produced by me.

I know a lot of people that I grew up with that were handed everything and to this day don't know how to do anything for themselves. They don't own anything and will probably rent the rest of their lives because they need their hand held for everything.

I did have a good upbringing but we were on the lower end of middle class. My ex was brought up like Damon and the closer you got to her and the more you cared the harder she would bite. Me, family, whatever. Shoot to thrill. Just inflicting damage, heavy damage, on people who don't deserve it just for fun. "Some men just want to watch the world burn."

That goes for affluent, broke, and everything in between. I used to give my ex a pass because of her upbringing until I met more than a couple people all on separate occasions that took issue with me for giving her that pass. These were people who had a tough childhood as well, however they don't feel compelled to spread suffering.

It's a conscious decision not based on financial stability what kind of person you want to be. Of course there is genetics involved, however I feel the time for excuses passed a long time ago. If the people who are the cause of this problem are not only going to cause it but also act like the rest of us, who wish they would just stop acting like they need to be caged, are to blame, that's it. Enough is enough. Everyone sits around and lets them perpetuate their stereotype, it's glamorized and endorsed, and here we are.

Could very well be an intentional trigger also, a lit fuse.


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[Scootertrash]

That statement is saying people who are poor get a pass for deciding to be criminals because they are jealous and have the right to act out....BS. Good morals cannot be bought, they are taught.


Hope you don't mind Red, I fixed it for you.

Also: You could never understand our view, but give us your money and we'll be all better and stop stealing your stuff. For awhile.


Nice post D. Criticize Camino for judging others he doesn't know, but judge people here based on your assumption of the amount of wealth they may or may not possess. Got it.

I got some news for ya: Nobody who has more than someone else, whether perceived or real, is responsible for where that other person is on the economic ladder.



ETA: You guys should look up what's considered "poverty level" in this country. It amounts to much, much more than "moderately affluent" in countries where there is REAL poverty.

[DohcBikes]

I got some news for ya: Nobody who has more than someone else, whether perceived or real, is responsible for where that other person is on the economic ladder.

Where do see me saying anything remotely close to that?

[DohcBikes]

"moderately affluent background"?It's almost like, they cancel each other out. How ignorant of me.

[DohcBikes]

Nice post D. Criticize Camino for judging others he doesn't know, but judge people here based on your assumption of the amount of wealth they may or may not possess. Got it.
I didn't give my opinion on whether I think what he did was right or wrong in his situation. I wasn't there. However I do strongly disagree with anyone blaming drug use on anyone else.

If you think there aren't kids living in filth and desperation right here in the USA then you are so very wrong. I won't address the poverty issue any longer.

[Scootertrash]

Originally Posted by Scootertrash
I got some news for ya: Nobody who has more than someone else, whether perceived or real, is responsible for where that other person is on the economic ladder.


Where do see me saying anything remotely close to that?

Close enough:


It's ALL about money, and the anger that the "have nots" harbor for the "haves"

[DohcBikes]

Close enough:Not even close. I didnt say it was ok to be angry that somebody has more, I only said that it's a reality. I absolutely didn't say that it was ok to blame anyone else for where you are on the "economic ladder". Everyone here missed my point, as expected.

The point regarding the original post, because that's the subject at hand, is that when you act out of fear, others may in turn act upon that fear. That's what happened here, like it or not. Since I've lived quite a while surrounded by people that prey on fear, I know that if he'd just stopped and said Hi instead of profiling, the encounter very likely would have been positive. Instead, it was left to assumption.

I knew there would only be one paragraph of what I said that anyone even paid attention to. It proved a point as well, one that I will keep to myself for use in the future.

[DohcBikes]

It's going to be impossible to argue with me about this because I haven't said anyone here was wrong. In fact I agree with the vast majority of what almost every poster has stated. It's a very complicated issue. The question was asked, was he a victim of a hate crime. The answer in my opinion is no. Being a victim of an encounter that does no harm is a choice. It's just being offended. It's like saying "but mommy, he flipped me off"... No harm was done. Move on with your lives. Should you choose to continue to act in fear, predators will continue to act upon that fear. Simple as that.

[fabiodriven]

It's because we're far too wealthy to understand.


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[DohcBikes]

It's because we're far too wealthy to understand.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkNot at all what I said. What I said was that I come from a very different background than most members here, which is the truth. Like it or not.

[fabiodriven]

I'm sorry, I had a C-note in my ear. Can you say that again?


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[DohcBikes]

I'm sorry, I had a C-note in my ear. Can you say that again?

That again.

[Scootertrash]

I didn't give my opinion on whether I think what he did was right or wrong in his situation.

Sure you did. You blamed him for his perception of the individuals, you blamed him for profiling a group of individuals who stuck out from what he considered to be "normal" whether it was because of the way they were dressed or the way they acted, and you insinuated that he was teaching his children to be scared of individuals of a different race. You claimed he was jumped in his youth because he was seen as an "easy target", but then you criticize his actions as an adult where he pays attention to his surroundings and notices a group of individuals who stick out from the crowd, to avoid being seen as an easy target and/or a victim.

You then justified the black kids behavior for doing the same thing you claimed Camino did: Profiling Camino because of his actions, i.e. paying attention to him because he was paying attention to them, he was white and he was keeping an eye on them, so obviously he was in fear, then using intimidation by following him.


However I do strongly disagree with anyone blaming drug use on anyone else.

Unless doctors and pharmaceutical companies are involved, right? Then they are responsible for turning patients into addicts. Misusing/abusing prescription drugs is no different that misusing/abusing illegal drugs, save for the fact that prescription drugs come with a set of instructions for proper usage.


If you think there aren't kids living in filth and desperation right here in the USA then you are so very wrong.

Where did I say that?

You know, there will always be poor people, there will always be some "dirt poor" people, there will always be rich people and "filthy rich people". The only way for people to get out of "poverty" is to be responsible for themselves. Relying on others to fix your problems is a recipe for failure.

We've had welfare programs since the 30's and equal opportunity employment laws since the mid 60's. It's 2016 fer cryin out loud, and the "poor" and minorities still claim it's not enough, always being promised more by Liberal politicians. If they haven't figured it out by now they never will.

[Scootertrash]

The point regarding the original post, because that's the subject at hand, is that when you act out of fear, others may in turn act upon that fear. That's what happened here, like it or not.

So you weren't there, but you're sure this is what happened. OK then. Sounds more like an assumption to me.


Since I've lived quite a while surrounded by people that prey on fear, I know that if he'd just stopped and said Hi instead of profiling, the encounter very likely would have been positive. Instead, it was left to assumption.

He based his observations and behavior on his past life experieneces, and you're basing your opinion of the situation based on yours. He was there, you weren't. Just think if that group of young men had ignored Camino and went about doing whatever they were doing? I believe there wouldn't have been a negative encounter. ;)

[fieldy]

I learned never to say hello to a group of people that are not my race because they won't acknowledge or reply until you turn around after saying hello like a fool then some will laugh or comment while you are walking away. I just walk by or avoid. Individuals just slip something in like "boy" and i am over 40. Its not worth me getting angry because i am trying to have something in life and the ones who "disrespect" aren't. I just dont say a word. I am not chicken, just looking to move forward with my day without an episode of cops in front of me.
I believe that someone of a different race aproaching a group of my race would be said hello to and most likley helped if needed and respected. If i approached a different race group, i would likley be in trouble one way or another.

[sledcrazyinCT]

Statistically speaking you should be nervous around a group of young black people. It's time to stop sugar coating reality, it is what it is and numbers don't lie.

If church is something to look up to for some of you that's great. Personally I prefer organizations that don't harbor pedophiles, and let's please not pretend that never happened either.

How about just being a good person and raising your own as such? Excuses have become such a prevalent part of our culture that we now need one to raise a good child?

https://youtu.be/Q1vXZKr2cAQ

https://youtu.be/iGTUcS-yQtQ




Damon, how do you discredit what TJ Sotomayor has to say about his perspective on blacks?


What you mean to say is that they are CONVICTED of 52% of the murders.

First of all, over 1/3 of all REPORTED murders in the u.s. go unsolved. Add to that, murders that are never reported or deemed to be murders. Then, add to that the amount of people that are killed or die as a result of the actions of rich white men, and the numbers you report and lean on will change dramatically.

Surveys are most often created to push an agenda.

Just because no one's on trial, doesn't mean crimes were not committed. You, as an American soldier being where you've been, know this very damn well.



Fabs is talking statistics, why are you mentioning surveys?

[sledcrazyinCT]

DOHC in reading your opinion of Caminofield's situation it is easy for me to see why you labelled his reaction as fear. Correct me if I am wrong, but you have made it clear that you do not have, nor care ever to be a father.

For me you are dead wrong he was afraid in this situation, but rather acting as a parent who will do what ever is necessary to protect his family.

All I read in Caminofield's post is how a good father was preparing to protect his family if a confrontation occurred. Why should he approach these men he never met before and hopefully won't run into again?

[fabiodriven]

This was beginning to sound all too familiar to me. That's because we've had this conversation before, lol. This is from two year ago;


Oh I forgot, they're all black and poor, which equals worthless testimony to all the high and mighty here.


Call me high and mighty if you want or call me a racist if that floats your boat. I'm not here to label anyone. In my personal experience, I've met bad people of all shapes, sizes, and colors. That doesn't mean that every fat person is no good, or every bald man is an arse, and it certainly doesn't make all black people bad.

Having gone to a regional high school that had kids from roughly 7 surrounding towns, including the City of Brockton which has its areas that are not the types of places you would want to spend too much time, I experienced "urban" kids first hand. I will tell you this- as a harmless white boy I got my share and then some of negativity from the black, Cape Verde, and Haitian students. I didn't look down on anyone then, but they did look down on me. When I was 17 or 18 a particularly annoying Cape Verde kid that worked at the local Jiffy Lube with me thought it would be funny to run a razor down my back and slice my shirt. He "accidentally" went too far and sliced down my back. He was working in my neck of the woods, as he was from Brockton, and my very close and strong friend came down into the pit seconds after it happened. He saw my back and was about to bury the kid. I told him to let it go and the kid who cut me swore it was an accident. My buddy has had no problems burying guys bigger than himself and this kid was small like me. I was the only reason he walked out of there. They were always a lot less forgiving with me.

The town I grew up in was middle class with not many people of color aside from the Portuguese. There was a very high population of them. Never had an issue with any of them, I never saw them in any different color or fashion. They never gave me a reason to. Sure they ate a lot of fish and had nice gardens and terribly built sheds, but they were just good people. I never saw them as anything other than people. There were very few lower income black families in my town, but there was one that most people knew of. I had multiple run-ins with them over the years, and maybe one or two times I had a good time with them. That has to be about a 90% disapproval rating based on the amount of times I ran into them over the years. One time I was in my parent's house in the middle of the day, broad daylight, and two of them came into my yard and took an 86 KX250 and a newer CR125 right out of my yard. My buddy and I had traded off for a week with two of our other friends, our trikes for their bikes. The kicker on the KX slipped (as they all do) so they couldn't get it running. They hopped on the CR double and I called the cops. I then pop started the KX and took off after them. After shooting up and down roads in my town I came across a parked cop. He sited me on the spot and towed the bike.

After getting my trike back, the same kid stole my ATC110. It was recovered the next town over a few weeks later and it was salvageable, but what the crap.

That same kid also took my slightly stolen (I was a kid once) 1984 TT600 (best dirt bike ever made) and ghost-rode it off a cliff in front of a party. The hill was sand so the bike was mostly OK, but c'mon guy.

After driving trucks for 15 years in every kind of setting, I can tell you with 100% certainty that black people have absolutely no objections with holding up traffic as they cross the street which is just plain ignorant by definition. Add into that fact that they clearly don't have anywhere to be, a conclusion drawn by their lack of moving with a purpose, and you take ignorant to unruly levels. Just to frost that cake they do it with their arse hanging out, because that's what you want to have to see while they stop the world, almost as if it revolves around them. They start young by walking in gaggles down the hallways in school, blocking other students who have places to be. Ask me how I know that.

About 4 months ago I was driving a tri-axle dump truck through Boston. At that time I was doing a lot of smiling, just all of the time because, well, things are a lot better that way. A black man walked out from the curb in front of my truck and looked right at me. I slowed the truck down without incident as I wasn't going too fast and proceeded to let him cross the road. He had a very menacing look on his face and I was smiling. When you've served in a combat zone you tend to read people's intent as you approach. My smile is not a smirk or a sneer, it's disarming. It makes it hard for people to approach you in a negative way, and it's on purpose. He started mouthing a bunch of shite at me and gesturing to me if there was a problem we could handle it. A problem about what? I never took my eyes off his as he crossed in front of me and then walked alongside my truck as I continued up the road. I avoid issues but I had been working on jacking up my self confidence at that time and was prepared to continue to smile regardless of what one low life thinks.

I do know black people that I love though and have always had that in my life. I always will. If I meet someone I base what I think of them on, well, themselves. It just so happens that a good portion of negative run-ins I've experienced in my life time have involved black people and, in particular, the type of black people that involve themselves with a lifestyle such as the one this black, urban man who got killed led. If they don't want to be civilized that's fine. They're still being treated civil and they should be thanking their lucky stars for that in my opinion. That kind of lifestyle is openly perpetuated in their music and culture and regardless of whether or not they can escape where it is they have been raised, there is absolutely no excuse for having such an uncivilized culture regardless of how much money you have. Money doesn't make you happy nor does it solve problems. People solve problems. People cause problems as well. Take a peek at how many riots involved black people as of late. For a kid like that to approach a grown man half his size and intimidate him proves he is a weapon in and of himself, and having him do such things is proof of his intentions. I had a big kid (who happened to be black) come around a corner in a store and he would have walked right over me if I didn't move just three weeks ago. Looked right through me as if I didn't exist and he was probably twice my size. I grabbed what I was getting (and looked for Dirt Wheels) and came back out to the front of the store where he was standing with his grandmother. He was probably 16. I'm 34. Not having respect for your elders goes right up my arse sideways and someone will probably tell me "well that's just one incident". It's really not though. I've been paying attention for a long time and it's unfortunate what the real story is.

It was a white kid that caused me to lose my concealed carry. Ultimately it was my decision as how to handle myself that evening, however, this particular white kid was visiting my town. He happened to come from the aforementioned City of Brockton. He dressed and talked like an urban black kid (act like you don't know what I mean). He had a lot to say, he was twice my size and at least 10 years younger than me, he had friends with him and he had something he wanted to show me in his pocket. It was that urban attitude I had seen so many times before, and this time it could have killed me. I wasn't losing the "guess what's in my pocket" game with him, and I wasn't waiting to see what he had to show me. No, nobody got shot. I did lose my LTC though. Another negative I can associate with that kind of lifestyle, but this was from a white kid. Although he was white, he certainly spoke and acted in a manner I would associate with younger black people. I was able to stop him from speaking that way, which is a feat in itself. I laughed in his face as he spoke in his regular voice. It's just a shame because it proves that's the only thing they know- violence. Shame on me for involving myself. I know better now.

Regardless, I still don't judge anyone right off the bat. I do judge those I've crossed paths with from time to time, and I must admit that I have had a lot of black people leave negative impressions on me. I wish them the best and hope they clean up their act. I am humble, far from high and mighty, but I am entitled to my own opinion.

[DohcBikes]

Here's what I really think:

Camino saw some black guys at the store.

[fabiodriven]

Hey you're entitled to whatever opinion you choose bud. I don't think less of you, but I'm not sure that's possible. Ha! Just kidding.

Clearly at times you enjoy playing the devil's advocate and maybe you do speak from somewhere many of us haven't come from. The sympathy I will say I won't be relating to but I've never walked in your shoes. We all have had our own experiences along our respective paths and base our thoughts on what we've seen. Obviously right here at this moment your point of view is not the most popular, but that's your experience. As long as you're true in your feelings and not just prone to playing a part then speak your mind. [emoji4]


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[knappyfeet]

Here's what I really think:

Camino saw some black guys at the store.

Nah........

His life experiences shaped his thinking and in this case it proved to be correct.

He did the correct thing by being aware and protecting his family....like a good father should.

[Caminofeld]

DoHc, I'm not gonna get into the back and forth with you and dissect your posts. You are absolutely entitled to your opinions. My initial post was just a rant about a bad situation I had that day where I believe I was singled out and followed by people that possibly intended to do harm to myself and my kids…and about how sick I am of AA people screaming "oppression" because of their race when, for the better part of my life, I have seen just the opposite. Say whatever you want, but you weren't there and didn't grow up in my shoes either. I believe my actions were completely appropriate and would do the same thing again. You can call me whatever you want, but I'll stick with believing I did the smart thing here. I could have thrown caution to the wind, parked the truck, and tried to talk and shake hands…but when I'm the only thing between my children and a potentially bad situation I choose the cautious approach. Dead is dead…there's no coming back from that.

Argue with me all you want, but as a first responder and ED Nurse I see firsthand what society wants to sweep under the rug. I prefer to learn from the mistakes of others and use what I have seen and dealt with to shape how I handle situations.

[Caminofeld]

3 miles from my house….

http://abc27.com/2016/08/12/i-83s-glen-rock-off-ramps-closed-for-found-body/

If it weren't for HIPPA laws I'd discuss my last patient who was followed by a car full of thugs…didn't end well for her.

[DohcBikes]

There's nothing to argue about. I think you did the right thing. I also think you did it out of fear. I didn't say there was anything wrong with that. My suggestion to say hi how ya doin was intended to provoke more discussion. It did.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I don't think that being aware of the reality of your surroundings based on experience and acting accordingly qualifies as fear. But even if it did, I'll take fear over naive any day.

[RamsesRibb]

I know I know. I'm dragging this topic up again.
Just reading through again. I just wanted to make clear based off some posts about fear being a factor, that fear is a natural response to danger and it keeps us alive in dangerous situations.
The question is, are you justified in fearing dangerous savages?
And color doesn't make savages, but culture obviously does.

[RamsesRibb]

Colin Kapernik (poor spelling) 60 mil. dollar NFL quarterback says he won`t stand for the national anthem because blacks are being oppressed in this country ......i feel the same way about whites ...maybe no one should stand for the National anthem ? How bout that ? ......maybe illegal aliens should`nt stand either ....ya know they have rights too ! He`s got em buzzing !

That is idiotic. The government and most organizations cater to them. They are not oppressed. If they were oppressed they would eat cow trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro like the starving people in African do. They try to catch it with their mouths before it hits the ground. But those people don't have any white honky crackas to steal money from. (Either legally or by gun point.) [emoji6]

[RamsesRibb]

Btw, isn't it nonsensical how blacks are referred to as African American with neither part of that has to do with color?

The Olympic sprinter Usain Bolt was referred to as African American by NBC but yet he is neither. He is Jamaican. Or when reporters go to Africa and try to stir the trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro by asking about all the African Americans there when they are just Africans and have absolutely jack to do with America.

And on that same train of thought why are people called racist if they speak against Mexican invaders? Mexican is a nationality not a race. Mexicans are mostly southern Indians are they not? What the hell does Hispanic even mean? Hispania is in Europe. Just because they speak the language of the people that ended their traditions human sacrifices and cannibalism does not make them "of" a place.

That same commonly pushed and accepted definition does not apply to white people who immigrate here from Africa. They are not allowed to apply for free money even though they are actually African American.

I am sick of double speak and bowing down to people who deem themselves superior because they are in "the club".

[knappyfeet]

Colin Kapernik (poor spelling) 60 mil. dollar NFL quarterback says he won`t stand for the national anthem because blacks are being oppressed in this country ......i feel the same way about whites ...maybe no one should stand for the National anthem ? How bout that ? ......maybe illegal aliens should`nt stand either ....ya know they have rights too ! He`s got em buzzing !

I never liked that punk arse and my hunch was correct.

Kids standing, other players standing and this b!tch sits....whinning like a menstruating puta. Making millions playing a kids game now he's enlightened and thought provoking so his opinions are precious cause he can run with a foozball?

This half breed is not even in the struggle. Fook him. Go deep!

[DohcBikes]

Our national anthem is propaganda.

The NFL is retarded.

[knappyfeet]

Our national anthem is propaganda.

I'm protesting that comment by sitting down in my chair.

You'll have to take my word for it since you can't see me

[R-N-D]

I never liked that punk arse and my hunch was correct.

Kids standing, other players standing and this b!tch sits....whinning like a menstruating puta. Making millions playing a kids game now he's enlightened and thought provoking so his opinions are precious cause he can run with a foozball?

This half breed is not even in the struggle. Fook him. Go deep!
Agreed. The very country that gives him this freedom to make millions playing a game I'm assuming he loves but yet people of color are oppressed? If so, give that money back and see what it's like to be those supposed people. In the midst of all this many people are losing sight of what is happening here. With all of the issues with police and shootings, I'm not saying that some or most of it may be a bit excessive in some cases but, in the end if the person or people being shot at by police aren't committing crimes, this trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro wouldn't even be happening. Chicago, Baltimore, Minnesota, Ferguson, wherever, it would never be or never have been a topic or issue if crimes were not committed from the beginning. Why isnt that ever stressed when these stories arise. And the media certainly doesn't help things either. The media would never expressed that opinion would they. Hell no they wouldn't. The lack of respect for authority has gone out the window and people aren't afraid to stand up to authority and challenge it because those on the authoritative side are afraid of losing their jobs, of being sued, being shot at and so on. So to say oppressed, I think that Jerkoff should hang up his spikes and get the F- out of this country and see what it's like in a country where people really are oppressed.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[DohcBikes]

You people are hilarious, sitting here discussing an overpayed game players loyalty to the u.s. that rapes you all of your natural freedoms every day. Go fly a kite. This is a retarded conversation.

[83ATC185]

dohc the national anthem might not propaganda but the pledge of allegiance certainly IS.

[R-N-D]

Welcome to conversation!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[DohcBikes]

Welcome to conversation!

....Exactly

[DohcBikes]

dohc the national anthem might not propaganda but the pledge of allegiance certainly IS.They both are. Anytime a power teaches a group of people to recite in unison it's bound to be some real bullshlt.

"Our father, who art in heaven..."

[sledcrazyinCT]

I never liked that punk arse and my hunch was correct.

Kids standing, other players standing and this b!tch sits....whinning like a menstruating puta. Making millions playing a kids game now he's enlightened and thought provoking so his opinions are precious cause he can run with a foozball?

This half breed is not even in the struggle. Fook him. Go deep!



I hope 49er fans raise a stink! NFL needs to grow a set, and tell the hyprocrite to stay in the trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro locker room until you are scheduled to go out in the field if you can't respect the National Anthem and stand.

I hope San Fran can somehow terminate/shorten his contract, then he can get on the pay roll of George Soros and head up a BLM chapter and follow his true calling.

As if his six year $114,000,000 contract to be a quarterback is somehow oppressive?

[sledcrazyinCT]

You people are hilarious, sitting here discussing an overpayed game players loyalty to the u.s. that rapes you all of your natural freedoms every day. Go fly a kite. This is a retarded conversation.


And you are a top contender for retarded contributions to various threads:lol: Isn't it time you just went and swam with Maynard and the fishes?
Some reason in every thread you throw that little tidbit out there. What the trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro makes that relevant? Go be a life guard if you like swimming so much....



Anytime a power teaches a group of people to recite in unison it's bound to be some real bullshlt.
Yet you recite lyrics all the trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro time so quit promoting propaganda if it is so offensive to your sensibilities. :crazy:

Don't worry I just added this to generate discussion

[sledcrazyinCT]

I read one article about this NFL player and it linked to his twitter account......some of his retweets appear that he is ready for a race war. Nat Turner is a hero and role model for BLM and the new black panthers Also some of his retweets make him out as a sympathizer for Syrian refugees causing chaos all over the world like it is some sort of payback for Black Americans that this takes place in other parts of the world.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

You people are hilarious, sitting here discussing an overpayed game players loyalty to the u.s. that rapes you all of your natural freedoms every day. Go fly a kite. This is a retarded conversation.

And yet you keep swinging in and partaking in said retarded conversation..... Come on man, enough with the melodrama...

[DohcBikes]

you recite lyrics all the time

"Now everybody's got advice they just keep on givin'
Doesn't mean too much to me
Lot's of people out to make-believe they're livin'
Can't decide who they should be.

I understand about indecision
But I don't care if I get behind
People livin' in competition
All I want is to have my peace of mind.

Take a look ahead, take a look ahead. Look ahead."

P.S. To recite means to repeat aloud to an audience. I learned that in my shltty public school.

I'll have a lime please.

Learn to swim.

[sledcrazyinCT]

You are a hoot....guess your so called shitty school didn't teach you plagiarism? Or copyright. Please cite the artist and song title you throw out there. It's only common courtesy to provide recognition to something you feel the need to post on a public forum.

BTW what word would equate to 'recite' on the internet? Learn me something new I already know how to swim

[DohcBikes]

You are a hoot....guess your so called shitty school didn't teach you plagiarism? Or copyright. Please cite the artist and song title you throw out there. It's only common courtesy to provide recognition to something you feel the need to post on a public forum.

BTW what word would equate to 'recite' on the internet? Learn me something new I already know how to swimActually since they claim ownership of every post the site owners are responsible for everything contained in this thread and every other one.

Copyright only applies if one is attempting to make commercial gains.

Peace of Mind by Boston.

Your last question is above my pay grade.

[El Camexican]

I wish someone would pay me 60 million bucks to be oppressed :(

[DohcBikes]

It's a fawking distraction for crying out loud. Something to get the sheep bleating.

Hey look, it's working.

Baaaaaa. Baa.

[RamsesRibb]

I read one article about this NFL player and it linked to his twitter account......some of his retweets appear that he is ready for a race war. Nat Turner is a hero and role model for BLM and the new black panthers Also some of his retweets make him out as a sympathizer for Syrian refugees causing chaos all over the world like it is some sort of payback for Black Americans that this takes place in other parts of the world.

I don't know why race wars are a big topic these days. It should be everyone vs white war. So a bunch of thugs gonna turn dere gat sideways and flang some lead and peel a few caps. Might as well squat and crap in their hands the fling poo like the savages at the zoo. My advice for that scenario would be, don't start trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro you can't finish. I guess no one ever wonders why white people where able to spread civilization across the whole world to begin with. How did white people for all these empires and take control of whole continents. It sure wasn't by being uneducated and speaking broken language.

[RamsesRibb]

The football players are looked at like role models but all they are is chess pieces. They're like used car salesman out trying to sell you a junk car so they can make a little change while The dealership owner is raking it in. The NFL and the team owners make tons of money. Far beyond what you could spend in a lifetime. I won't give them a dime. People are entertained by that like they are really going to get something out of it. Pfft. Go watch your kids play ball for fun not some jackarse trying to get rich playing a game and then act like he's suddenly important.

[DohcBikes]

All it does is get grown adults to pay even more attention to a bunch of other grown adults playing a game so they don't mind so much the world crumbling under their feet.

Joe I'm not being melodramatic. This is legitimately pathetic. It makes me extremely angry and I'm doing my best not to launch into a condescending tirade. A group that goes on and on about the problems with the illusion of government, should NEVER have time to watch a dumb ass game that does nothing but highlight the ease in which you are all lead by propaganda. Pure unadulterated manipulation.

You get ONE LIFE. Don't waste it watching somebody else's.

[El Camexican]

You get ONE LIFE. Don't waste it watching somebody else's.

Says the 36 year old guy that spends his days arguing with people on the internet LOL!

[DohcBikes]

Yep you know all about me don't ya.

No time to argue, gotta leave for work.

[knappyfeet]

Good ......now get your shine box out !.......you missed a spot right over dare !

Ok.....

234468

[Scootertrash]

Says the 36 year old guy that spends his days arguing with people on the internet LOL!

*snort* :lol:

[R-N-D]

All it does is get grown adults to pay even more attention to a bunch of other grown adults playing a game so they don't mind so much the world crumbling under their feet.

Joe I'm not being melodramatic. This is legitimately pathetic. It makes me extremely angry and I'm doing my best not to launch into a condescending tirade. A group that goes on and on about the problems with the illusion of government, should NEVER have time to watch a dumb ass game that does nothing but highlight the ease in which you are all lead by propaganda. Pure unadulterated manipulation.

You get ONE LIFE. Don't waste it watching somebody else's.
Not sure what to make of this? Is that some sort of threat or challenge? Anyway you look at it you are no better than the rest of us who continue to read and write in this thread. If it bugs you so much, why do you continue to contribute to it? Let it go and go about the things you do enjoy. Unless of course, this truly is enjoyable to you. Just sayin.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[DohcBikes]

Unless of course, this truly is enjoyable to you. It is a little bit enjoyable.

[R-N-D]

It is a little bit enjoyable.
Haha, ok. I love it.

Not sure what to make of this? Is that some sort of threat or challenge? Anyway you look at it you are no better than the rest of us who continue to read and write in this thread. If it bugs you so much, why do you continue to contribute to it? Let it go and go about the things you do enjoy. Unless of course, this truly is enjoyable to you. Just sayin.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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[DohcBikes]

So....How bout those Bears?

[RIDE-RED 250r]

So Damon, you don't think it hypocritical that a "black" NFL QB that has obviously been wildly successful playing a game runs his mouth about how "black" people are oppressed in this country? I gave up watching sports years ago, FWIW..better things to do, like argue with you! LOL! ;) But having said that, I'm sure you are aware that a person may not watch sports but still hear about what this asshat has said and done. He is the one who opened his big fat mouth, HE is the one who took his little stand and protested, HE can deal with the criticism and chastisement that follows. We all know this country isn't perfect and I feel it is directly BECAUSE we have strayed so far from our founding documents.. But nevertheless, it's the best deal going on this the third rock in my opinion. But we are losing it fast! You can protest things this country has done and the corrupt tyrants who are called "politicians" all you want, but don't disrespect the principles the republic was based on and the symbols of those principles that hundreds of thousands fought and gave their lives for. I know people have the right to desecrate the flag and all that, just don't do it around me.

Anyway, another reason I feel that toolbag is worth some level of attention is that he and his idiotic sniveling about how blacks are oppressed is yet another symptom of the systematic societal break-down happening in this country, that coincidentally has greatly accelerated over these last few years... The fact that you or I would not give a bucket of piss for that punks opinion doesn't matter, what matters and what is disturbing to me is that so many other people do. I find it disgusting that a public figure (and he is one) thinks it's OK to agitate an already tense situation, and flat out lie in the course of doing so to boot. I'm sure there is no shortage of "entertainers" jumping on the BLM bandwagon too...You know, celebrities that spout off their ignorant mouths because they think their opinion matters a bit more than ours because they act for a living... Gimme a break! The crap these people do as public figures is all but inciting violence....Hate speech??? I guess whites are the only people capable of that, just like the only people capable of racism are the whites...Well, according to popular leftist PC talking points anyway.

[R-N-D]

Well said.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[DohcBikes]

I think you're missing my point.

It's a coup. The entire effing thing is an illusion. I have no opinion on fabricated situations, and no I wouldn't care in the least bit if this person said my mother was a 2 dollar hooker. It doesn't affect me because I know that for the most part he is an actor playing his part.

Provacative, to get people to watch the T.V.

Sheep.

[R-N-D]

So....How bout those Bears?
They Suck. Cutler is worthless in my opinion. Until he gets his head out of his ass and gets over himself, I'm not a fan. He's an arrogant punk.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[DohcBikes]

He's an arrogant punk.
Hate guys like that.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I think you're missing my point.

It's a coup. The entire effing thing is an illusion. I have no opinion on fabricated situations, and no I wouldn't care in the least bit if this person said my mother was a 2 dollar hooker. It doesn't affect me because I know that for the most part he is an actor playing his part.

Provacative, to get people to watch the T.V.

Sheep.

Ferguson was no illusion, nor are any of the BLM riots and illegal road blocks, or the paid for and bussed in Trump protestors who are instructed to try and pick literal fights with people, or the black panther party intimidating voters.. these things effect people. It may not have directly effected you and I yet, but if something isn't done it will. I get what you are saying about this whole mess being inflamed by our government, and the president himself, I get you. And yet, while this whole thing has been dragged up intentionally, if not artificially, there are real life consequences. THAT is what I'm trying to say gives cause for concern.

And no, this little episode has not spurred me to start watching the NFL. It's just yet another straw on the camel's back, just another trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro celebrity whose big mouth can have bigger consequences because of the large amount of people who literally idolize this moron.

Look, I'm not saying I have all the answers to this VERY complex problem. All I am saying is that I don't think it wise to only focus on one component of the problem and ignore the real consequences of it.

[DohcBikes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-xWhG4UU_Y

[R-N-D]

Right now i think Denver would take him back maybe for Von Miller ! It`s entertainment ....... get over it .....and lets have fun watching Cam Newton get hee - ace beat ..... up in diss muvfacka ! ......sheet i do it my dam self ......HE STANK !
Denver can have him back if it were up to me. Unfortunately it's not.

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[RamsesRibb]

All of this environment around us is a total elitist take over. Pay attention. Right now freedom of speech is under fire. Obama is handing control of the Internet to the UN. I don't know if anyone has noticed this but in the last couple months several high profile arrests have been made to people abroad who where operating file sharing sites. The Internet has been claimed as property of the government. Julian Assange has a hit put out on him. His lawyer was shot 3 times in the head and dumped on train tracks. The police said it was obviously suicide, nothing suspicious about it.

We are all being played. Many have been brainwashed and play right along.

The whole world has flipped. The more I dig, the more things point to our government as the bad guys. And if that is true then the answer may be that our leaders are trying to move us into an age of world domination run by them.

[Scootertrash]

234528 + 234529 = this thread

[fabiodriven]

All of this environment around us is a total elitist take over. Pay attention. Right now freedom of speech is under fire. Obama is handing control of the Internet to the UN. I don't know if anyone has noticed this but in the last couple months several high profile arrests have been made to people abroad who where operating file sharing sites. The Internet has been claimed as property of the government. Julian Assange has a hit put out on him. His lawyer was shot 3 times in the head and dumped on train tracks. The police said it was obviously suicide, nothing suspicious about it.

We are all being played. Many have been brainwashed and play right along.

The whole world has flipped. The more I dig, the more things point to our government as the bad guys. And if that is true then the answer may be that our leaders are trying to move us into an age of world domination run by them.

It's worse than you realize.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/180852-We-the-sheeple

[83ATC185]

This wont stop until they have everybody and everything. The signs are everywhere. Control is everywhere. From the healthcare we receive, the food we eat, the vehicles we drive, everything is out of most peoples control.

The thing about it all is, even if we took control and got back to where we were truly free to do as we choose, that will be the end of the world. There are so many ignorant people in the world today that don't know how to manage resources and take care of the world that we live in, and people will go en masse from place to place to place, pillaging and destroying every resource available until there is nothing left for anybody. I'm convinced this world truly is doomed.