1984 Honda big... Won't start

[Fourwheelhorse]

Hi guys,
I'm not new to this form...been reading and lurking a lot...but now I've registered..so watch out..😀
Anyhow, to start out with, I purchased this 1984 big red off of craigslist pretty much sight unseen, just a few pictures and a brief description from the owner sold it to me. It needs a lot of stuff.. But nothing I can't handle, expect one thing: I can't get it to run... It has spark, and fuel is making to the float bowl but the plug dry...I've cleaned the tank, made sure the petcock is clear..then cleaned the carb twice. The 200 seems to have good compression, but I don't have a compression gauge. It won't even fire on starting fluid. The previous owner swears that it ran last spring..he even put a new battery in it ( which is too big and doesn't fit). So before I go and spend the extra 100 or 200$ needed to fix this machine properly, I need to get it running to see what I'm up against...so to sum it all up...good spark, compression seems good, fuel in the float bowl... Spark plug is mostly dry after attempting to start ... Say 10 rotations or so. It won't fire a lick....it did however backfire 1 time....through the exhaust....that was after I choked it and gave it full throttle, while rotating the engine....
Whatcha guys think? Thanks in advance.....

[RIDE-RED 250r]

If you have fuel in the bowl, but the plug remains dry after cranking, about your only cause is that there is still a blockage in the fuel circuits in the carb body itself that is preventing fuel from making it into the engine.

You say you cleaned the carb twice, can you elaborate on what exactly you did? Sometimes a carb needs to be soaked in carb soak solution overnight when there are blockages that simply cannot be reached and cleared by conventional means. Particularly the pilot (low speed) circuit as it is VERY small, easily obstructed, and not very easy to clean if stopped up bad.

Also, it's very easy to overdo it and flood the spark plug with starting fluid. If possible, I would drop a teaspoon of fuel into the cylinder through the sparkplug hole, re-install a clean dry sparkplug, then retry.

Post back with what you did and I'll see if I can help you along the way from there.

Welcome aboard!

[Fourwheelhorse]

How I do this is normally take the red straw and spray directly I the holes... Then used compressed air to blow out. I'm going to reinstall and try again. If it doesn't work, I'll try the teaspoon of gas in the spark plug hole and see if she will fire.
I'll report back in a few hours.
Thanks!!
X

[Fourwheelhorse]

One more quick question.... The fuel mixture jet.. The one with the spring in it.... I was blowing that part all out and the spring flew out, well I recovered it. I was curious as to if that was sposed to have a rubber seat in there somwhere....I can't find a breakdown of the carb on the web. One more thing.... There was air bubbling out of the base of the same jet as I was blowing it out with compressed air, after I sprayed carb cleaner into the body of the carb... Normal?
Sorry if I'm asking too many questions. Thanks for all the replies.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Idle mixture screws, some have o-rings, others don't.

By the sound of it, you probably didn't get to the heart of the issue by simply spraying carb cleaner into the orifices.

What you need to do is remove and completely disassemble the carb and then try cleaning with spray carb cleaner. Remove and inspect both the main and pilot jets for full or partial blockage. The pilot jet has a VERY small passage through it, but you should still be able to hold it and look through it with a light source in the background. Every passage in the carb body needs to be clean and clear, idle air bypass circuits in the carb intake bell, all the way through to the pilot jet circuit. Pilot jet circuit should be clean and clear all the way up to the carb venturi from the pilot jet housing... Basically, every little passage and port you can find, you should be able to apply a small amount of compressed air and find it coming out somewhere else. You don't have to blast it with 150psi, just enough to verify unrestricted flow. You may however need to give it a full blast of air to clear it out..

You may be in a situation where the carb soak is the best solution. Napa sells it in a gallon can just like a paint can. It has a basket included for part soaking. Completely disassemble the carb, remove an and all gaskets and o-rings and set them aside. Place the carb body, bowl, and all brass in the soak solution over night. After an over night soak, remove the parts and clean them with spray carb cleaner and a toothbrush or something similar. Use compressed air on all of the fuel and air circuits. I have been successful using this method resurrecting carbs I was not able to get to come clean using the spray cleaner and conventional methods.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Looks like there should be an o-ring with your idle mixture screw...
http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/1984-honda-atc200es/o/m1891#sch11590

[gimmeamidget]

It should pop off for a few seconds if your spraying starter fluid on air cleaner. Are you sure it's in neutral?

[gimmeamidget]

If it's got a battery in it then the green light should be lit if in neutral when key is on.

[Fourwheelhorse]

The green light isn't lit.... But I pulled the plug to check for spark and it has it. How do I fix the green light issue? It's in neutral for sure.... I pulled it into my pole barn by hand.
So an update... I can get it to fire...but it backfires immediately, through the exhaust only.
It has several small oil leaks, valve cover and head gAsket leaks slightly. My plan is to simply pull the engine and re ring it and replace all gaskets. How hard is it to get the engine out?

[Rob Canadian]

Get it to run first. Address oil leaks after.

[gimmeamidget]

I know you believe it is in neutral but no green light no start. Before you pull the motor and put a bunch of money you could humor me and make sure it is neutral. I can't remember if it's all the way up or all the way down but as soon as the green light comes on it will start. Even with spark I believe there is some kind of a cut off that won't allow it to run unless in neutral. Seems like the big reds roll easy even in gear. Takes a few seconds to check.

[Fourwheelhorse]

So if the green light light isn't on and it is in neutral....should it still start? Or does the light have to be on?

[gimmeamidget]

I just know there is a switch that won't allow it to start unless it is in neutral. I suppose the light could be out but I highly doubt it. Either wiring is off somewhere or your not in neutral. Rock it back and forth when you shift and make double sure it's in neutral. I just have a feeling the light will come on if in fact it's neutral. If you are still sure it's in neutral and no light I would check the wiring on the neutral switch first.

[Fourwheelhorse]

Yes it's for sure in neutral....where is the neutral safety switch located? When I find it... How do I bypass it?

[Fourwheelhorse]

Ok...update...still won't start, I got a buddy who bought a ne carb off of eBay, when he got it the carb looked like it was smacked by a hammer, so obviously he couldn't use it, however the jets and internals were still good. So he brought it over, I installed all the new parts into my carb body and low and behold.... Nothing. So I ordered a new carb from eBay, I chose a The company " Zoom Zoom" anyhow, a Day later I got it... Installed it.. More of the same. So now I'm thinking timing, or valves? I can get it to pop...but it won't even think about running. This big red needs a lot of stuff... Nickel and dime stuff..such as the glove box and lid, fork seals are shot and suspension doesn't function, needs a grab bar to support the rear of the rack... One side of the front tire is wore the other side looks brand new....wondering if I should part it out? Don't want to as I didn't give a lot for it and around here it seems like the Honda big reds go for a LOT $$$. Don't think I could buy one in descent shape for under a grand. What do you guys think?

[Fourwheelhorse]

By the way not sure why it shows a hammer... I typed the word out...weird eh?