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View Full Version : Oil coming from were the muffler meets the header??



Newrider
10-16-2016, 12:48 PM
It's a 200s motor, Its a 4 stroke so why am I getting oil leaking from exhaust? Where do I start to diagnose the problem?

Herboso
10-16-2016, 01:05 PM
Sounds like a blown gasket. Definitely a problem that needs to be fixed before you do any more riding.

TwiZ
10-16-2016, 01:14 PM
Probably a valve seal. Does it smoke when you first start it then clear up?

Newrider
10-16-2016, 01:35 PM
Yup it smokes... SMH and a couple months ago I had a piston rings gaskets and supposedly valve seals put in it... This thing is nothing but problems

TwiZ
10-16-2016, 01:44 PM
Sounds like someone didnt do a very good job. Not tryin to insult ya but oil aint too full is it? Pull dipstick,wipe it then just set it in hole,dont screw it in,pull it and check leveel,long shot but never know

Newrider
10-16-2016, 01:55 PM
Lol... You ain't lying... No kidding, now with the amount of money I dumped into this thing what should I do next, do I go ahead and try to fix it on my own, do I pay to have it fixed, I really don't even know who I could trust to do the job obviously not the last guy who did it lol.. Do I look for a new motor on Craigslist or eBay and run into the same problems later on down the line.. How hard will this job be for me to fix considering I never did anything like this before? What's my next move

TwiZ
10-16-2016, 02:07 PM
Get a manual. Plenty here have posted free ones. Depending how bad it smokes and if it clears up after a while you could just run it. If your not comfortable doing the work id take it somewhere.

AK47KID
10-16-2016, 02:12 PM
Imo it's better for honda engines to put a little more oil in them

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Newrider
10-16-2016, 03:26 PM
235783 I'm comfortable riding it... Here's what I got after a half hour of riding in the pic above.. What damage will it do if I ride like this?

TwiZ
10-16-2016, 03:46 PM
My 200s i ran for 2 years smokin like cheech n chong...i carried xtra spark plugs with me like it was a 2 smoker....not sayin thats what ya should do,but i would address it sooner than later

AK47KID
10-16-2016, 08:25 PM
Your crank breather hose on right?

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TwiZ
10-16-2016, 08:44 PM
Your crank breather hose on right?

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^^what he said....good call AK

AK47KID
10-16-2016, 09:55 PM
It's a 200s motor, Its a 4 stroke so why am I getting oil leaking from exhaust? Where do I start to diagnose the problem?
Is it a 200x frame with a 200s engine?

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Newrider
10-17-2016, 06:58 AM
Yes it's an autox.... I gave this thing at least 50 hours trying to get it perfect and this is like a real road block for me I've never torn into an engine before, but I guess there's a first time for everything.. I'm just real skeptical and nervous.. The most I was in the engine was the timing

Newrider
10-17-2016, 07:38 AM
I don't know.. I thought so.. But the hose coming off my engine, I noticed there was exhaust coming from it so I wouldn't doubt if something was on wrong.. Sorry for my lack of knowledge on this.. I can check ND take pics when I get home today

Newrider
10-17-2016, 07:42 AM
TwiZ I am almost sure the oil is OK but I'll double check when I get home today

TwiZ
10-17-2016, 07:45 AM
Im sure it probably is but process of elimination. Stupid obvious stuff

Newrider
10-17-2016, 08:16 AM
How could my crank breather hose be on wrong? It's the hose with 3 outlets correct? How many places could it fit? I have it open on 2 ends and one plugged up on top of the case?

Newrider
10-17-2016, 08:26 AM
At this point I'm praying that it's just the hose lol

AK47KID
10-17-2016, 10:01 AM
At this point I'm praying that it's just the hose lol
Your crank breather hose will spit out oil of not set up correctly. It's probably okay the way it is now.

Run your trike for a few and pull the slip-on exahust off of the header pipe. See if there is oil actually inside the pipes

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TwiZ
10-17-2016, 11:06 AM
The hose is like a tee...the top goes by shock reservoir and curves down,the bottom should come out by swingarm and last one hooked to motor,none should be blocked off. Is there oil in your air box? Im still leaning twards valve seals or the valve guide...or they doinked up your refresh,maybe didnt hone it or cyl out of spec

Newrider
10-17-2016, 04:32 PM
Honest opinions.. Do u guys think I could do my valves seals even though I have never torn into a motor? If so I'll order a gasket kit right now with the valve seals, I know every1 says while I'm in there I should refresh the whole top end but it might be to much for me to handle.. If you guys think it's possible please let me know what tools I'll also need to buy and I'll hit eBay with everything I got lol which is about $111.00 lol

TwiZ
10-17-2016, 05:55 PM
Ya need a special tool to get the valve keepers out. I made one with a old c-clamp,but if you dont know what your doing you have a spring loaded mess comin at ya. The keepers can at times be a lil difficult. You will have to remove the head,and yes if your that far ya may as well get that cylinder done.Save you money up so you can get the cyl and new piston done,and the valve seals at the same time. That way you can have valve guides checked too. I wonder if the guy didnt mess the oil rings up or misalign them

Newrider
10-17-2016, 06:49 PM
He said he he honed the cylinder and put a new wiseco piston in it was the stock piston size I bought it and gave it to him along with a top end gasket set and new valve seals... Some were along the lines he messed me up.. I'm gonna have to open it up and if u don't mind I'll send u some pics so u can tell me what's going on maybe he took a short cut smh

Newrider
10-17-2016, 07:37 PM
235886 I'd like to say I save my change for extreme emergencies and this might be an emergency lol it will put me right at about $200

TwiZ
10-17-2016, 07:48 PM
Ill help any way i can...ive tore more of these lil motors down and got em goin than i can count

Rob Canadian
10-17-2016, 08:12 PM
Are you sure it is oil? Take more pics. My just be residue in the exhaust. now it is heating up and ozzing out?

Newrider
10-17-2016, 09:06 PM
I'll check tomorrow.. I'm pretty sure.. It's a brand new header pipe.. I'll take pics tomorrow after I run it for about 20 mins I'll pull the muffler when it cools and put some pics up

Newrider
10-17-2016, 09:10 PM
Thanks twiZ ,

Rob Canadian
10-17-2016, 09:17 PM
OK. I know you have $$ into it but take a step back. Make sure the oil level is correct. Pop the plug out and take a look. Post a pic of it.

Make sure the oil level is correct. Ride it for a bit and see if the oil level goes down. Let's not tear into the engine before all the facts are on the table.

RIDE-RED 250r
10-17-2016, 09:18 PM
You might simply have a seeping rocker box. They don't use a gasket, they use sealant from the factory. Do not use silicon RTV, use a quality adhesive sealant like Threebond. Very common for the rocker box to seep oil..especially since alot of people like to use silicon RTV instead of adhesive sealant like Threebond....

Newrider
10-17-2016, 09:40 PM
Thanks ride-red250 . The rockers sit on the top side of my valve cover are you referring to my valve cover were it seats on the head.. Because that was sealed with rtv not a sealant.. I'll pull the motor and clean all the silicone off and seal it back up if that's what u mean if not can u please explain and I'll follow trailprotrailpro instructions

Newrider
10-17-2016, 09:47 PM
Also if it's a seeping rocker box would that cause oil to be in my exhaust or on the head coming from the seal? Sorry I sound unknowledgable but I am.. I'm learning though

RIDE-RED 250r
10-17-2016, 09:59 PM
No problem bud...

The rocker box is basically what some would call a valve cover. It is the cover that bolts directly to the head and houses the rockers and also houses the top halves of the cam bearing journals. Note: I am not referring to the two small covers one would remove to adjust the valves, those usually have O-rings.

But yes, a seeping rocker box will allow oil to run down the outside of the cylinder. If it is leaking adjacent to the exhaust, it will collect on the header pipe, cause smoke, and leave that residue. I'll go back and look at your pics again... stand by.

RIDE-RED 250r
10-17-2016, 10:06 PM
OK, looking at your pic again, obviously this is near the rear shock. Are we looking at the seam between the header pipe and muffler there???

Is there oil farther upstream on the outside of the header pipe?? Or is the source the header pipe/muffler seam?

I may be wrong in suggesting the seeping rocker box... it would have to be a pretty sever leak for oil to run that far down the exhaust pipe before burning off.

Really need to know the source of the oil.

And you shouldn't need to pull the engine to remove the rocker box.

Rob Canadian
10-17-2016, 10:16 PM
Grab some clear pics of the head and the leak and surrounding areas.

IMHO. I think it is just an exhaust leak. A bit of carbon on the inside of the exhaust.

yaegerb
10-17-2016, 11:05 PM
Do you happen to have a compression tester to at least rule out rings? Albeit expensive a 4 stroke leak down tester is a great tool to have as well and after I ruled out rings I would leak down the motor.

Here's a good leak down tester. It will tell you exactly where the problem is occurring.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Motion-Pro-4-Stroke-Leak-Down-Tester-Test-Kit-08-0126-/390838765129?nav=SEARCH

Another problem I have seen, although rare is before a rebuild the rings and valve seals were so bad that the pipe actually had residual oil sitting in it. It might be worthwhile to take the exhaust off and see if oil drops out of it. If so, drain, burn out the remainder with a MAPP torch or butane and reinstall. If you still have oil leakage then valves or rings or installed improperly or the cylinder wasn't bored correctly or a combination.

TwiZ
10-18-2016, 05:05 AM
Whats your plug look like? Take a pic of it. You said it smoked but never said if it clears up after running it for a while. If it smokes bad all the time compared to it smokes and clears up is huge.You also said there was smoke coming out of crankcase breather hose. Thats blowby from the rings.A leakdown/ comp check like suggested above would be good. Go to like auto zone or wherever you can rent the stuff and check comp and leakdown. Dont forget the pics these guys asked for AND a pic of the plug. Kinda hard to diagnose without being there and physically looking at it. Like the one old guy i worked for at a plumbing heating a/c shop would say,hard sayin not knowing,as the batteries in my magic wand is dead lol.. Ive seen exaust look like this,mostly on cars,that are running rich and have a small leak in the exaust and black crap dripps out,or black crap drip out the tailpipe. Spark plug could possibly tell us alot

Newrider
10-18-2016, 09:45 AM
Thanks guys I will try and answer everyone.. I do understand it's hard to diagnose just by what I'm telling yas, OK the oil is coming from the seal at which the header meets the muffler I would have not noticed it if I didn't see it splashed on my swing arm but I have been noticing a couple drips on the ground after it would sit coming from my skid plate I now know we're it was coming from... My plug looks pretty good if I check it after a chop test from a decent speed then stalling it out it looks to be a nice tan color now if I look at the plug after I just have it idling it's black and a little wet.. I believe I was asked if it's from the old rings and piston but I never put the old exhaust back on I threw it away and ordered a new exhaust system. ..i did have an exhaust leak I had it leaking from were the header comes out of the head and I put a crush gasket in there and it stopped and I tightened the muffler nice and snug were it meets the header and I don't see anymore smoke coming from the pipe.. I will post all the pics I can later on today.. Probably more than needed lol... And it doesn't smoke nearly as bad as before I had the piston put in but yes it mostly always smokes now sometimes it stops briefly but when I get on it a Lil I can see a trail of smoke.. I'll check into the compression tester today.. I was so bummed I found a 185s for 200$ on a local site like Craigslist I was just gonna pick that up and switch motors and then slowly but surely learn about how these old motors worked but I don't want to give up on this I put so much into it already... Thanks guys if I didn't answer a question please ask again I just missed it.. Not on purpose

Newrider
10-18-2016, 09:52 AM
If I had one person one time take apart one of these engines and show me how it works I would understand so much better... Yous guys here are great, even though everyone is scattered throughout the country and even the world I thank yas for helping the best you can.. Without this site I would only have a pile of bolts!!

TwiZ
10-18-2016, 10:25 AM
Is the smoke blue?.I tell ya for 200 bucks and runs id scarf it. Those lil 185s run good. You could put it in till ya get the one ya got straightened out. Then you would have 2 motors hehe.,along with extra pull start,ign coil,cdi,carb...yea id buy it..lol. Maybe the guy didnt offset the rings properly,since you say there is blowby on crankcase breather,or doinked the valve seal putting it in. Any oil in air filter box?

Newrider
10-18-2016, 12:21 PM
No oil in the airbox... Yeah I'm gonna grab it. I just picked up an extra couple hours a day at work ... I'm sure I'll get hell from my girl for buying it because she'll see a new trike she doesn't really notice the bunch of little pieces and parts but she will notice this buy lol

Newrider
10-18-2016, 12:23 PM
And the only thing this 200$ trike is missing is the pull start he said he has to push start it. But it doesn't smoke.. Is there anything I should look for when I pick it up?

yaegerb
10-18-2016, 12:26 PM
Lol... You ain't lying... No kidding, now with the amount of money I dumped into this thing what should I do next, do I go ahead and try to fix it on my own, do I pay to have it fixed, I really don't even know who I could trust to do the job obviously not the last guy who did it lol.. Do I look for a new motor on Craigslist or eBay and run into the same problems later on down the line.. How hard will this job be for me to fix considering I never did anything like this before? What's my next move

I am wrapping up on another motor and have some time to take a look. PM me if interested.

TwiZ
10-18-2016, 05:07 PM
No oil in the airbox... Yeah I'm gonna grab it. I just picked up an extra couple hours a day at work ... I'm sure I'll get hell from my girl for buying it because she'll see a new trike she doesn't really notice the bunch of little pieces and parts but she will notice this buy lol
She will get over it,go pick some flowers and grab a nice hallmark card,take a lil blue pill,throw her a good one...lol even minus pull sounds like a deal...my woman just shakes her head,she knows what she was getting into when she got with me,cuz i made no bones about it

Newrider
10-20-2016, 06:09 PM
Lol.. I told her and she was fine with it.. What issues should I look for when I go to pick it up Saturday? Pretty much if it's not smoking it should be OK? And yaegerb I know I couldn't afford to pay shipping and have it fixed but when I save up some more money I'll send it to you for sure!!

TwiZ
10-20-2016, 07:19 PM
Im glad yaegerb offered his help. I would but my busy time of the year is kickin off right now with service calls cleaning and servicing furnaces and boilers. Take your pull starter assy.and a can of gas,maybe a good plug ect to get the 185 fired up

Newrider
10-20-2016, 07:41 PM
Man so many people on here offer their help and have so much knowledge about these trikes and I only wish I was as good as y'all are.. But I couldn't thank you guys enough.. Dohcbikes talked me through my timing step by step.. I put everything I learn in my back pocket so hopefully one day I can teach someone else!!

Newrider
10-20-2016, 07:47 PM
Pretty soon, well in a couple days I will probably have a new set of awesome problems that I can bother you guys with!!! Haha

yaegerb
10-20-2016, 11:45 PM
Lol.. I told her and she was fine with it.. What issues should I look for when I go to pick it up Saturday? Pretty much if it's not smoking it should be OK? And yaegerb I know I couldn't afford to pay shipping and have it fixed but when I save up some more money I'll send it to you for sure!!

No worries. For future reference, shipping should be around 70 or so via 5 day ups.

TwiZ
10-21-2016, 12:04 AM
No worries. For future reference, shipping should be around 70 or so via 5 day ups.

Yea thats pretty close of a price range. I sold a 250 big red motor on sleazebay a couple months back and shipping from Pa. To Kenturkey was a little under $60...gotta say Yaegerb thats pretty cool of ya

Newrider
11-20-2016, 10:06 PM
Here's a update to this thread, I new I was over my head with the problems I was having with my engine and the other trike fell through so I decided to send my engine to yaegerb and he completely rebuilt my top end and it not only looks beautiful but runs even better, my main problem was the guy who put my piston in before installed a piston that was to small for the cylinder ,it's now got a new cylinder new head new rockerbox new cam new piston and rings new valves basically I'm not sure if anything isnt new!!! Thanks again yaegerb ,if I forgot anything please chime in. 237144

yaegerb
11-21-2016, 12:10 AM
You pretty much nailed it. Basically the piston was stock and the bore needed to be 66mm to be worth a rebuild so I picked up a new cylinder and piston kit. Then we found that the exhaust studs were cracked on the head and got another used one. Finally we found that the rocker box caps were cross threaded in and wouldn't come out so shortline hooked is up with a VERY nice used unit. While I was in there I put new valves in and lapped them. We also put an xr200 cam in it. A new gasket kit and some bead blasting and voila...a motor that actually runs great!