'02 Toyota Tundra brakes?

[Jd110]

After 120k, brakes were due. It's seemed pretty straightforward, so I installed new rotors, pads, drums & shoes. Now the brakes have a new pulsating problem. I've got the service manual and have taken them off twice since to inspect what I did.
I bought aftermarket (Brembo). Could it be the factory shims on front pads are not needed with the new pads. It might be a long shot, but any advice is appreciated at this point. Thank you.


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[yaegerb]

you bought brembo rotors?

[Jd110]

Yes. Is that no good? It's been in my mind I should have bought oem.


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[yaegerb]

I don't know much about their rotors....I know their calipers are ok. I have done brakes on too many cars and what I have learned is go back with OEM. Aftermarket rotors, especially from o'reilly's/autozone/etc, will not perform to OEM (in my experience) and will typically warp within a few thousand miles. That being said, I would call a brembo tech and verify that you can swap OEM hardware to brembo calipers. That may be your issue.

[Jd110]

Brembo was recommended by a friend who has over 200k on his '03. The dealership has done a good job on my services but are a bit pricey. I bought the Brembo kit online @ new parts.com. My mistake. I've only got about 10 easy miles on these brakes. I can't drive it like this so the dealership is going to look at it Monday. Thanks for your feedback!



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[yaegerb]

Yeah i always thought you had to turn rotors new or not ?

I always have mine checked before I install just to make double sure. You can buy a lemon once in a while, even with OEM.

[Jd110]

Yeah i always thought you had to turn rotors new or not ?

I've never heard that..but I've wondered if they sent me ones with too much turn out.


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[oile]

Sounds to me you have warped rotors.

[barnett468]

yup, most likely what oile said . even though they are new, they may not have been mfg correctly . if the rotors are warped enough, it will always cause a pulsating problem.

brembo is high dollar stuff and "should" not be machined incorrectly but hard to say these days with poor to no quality control.

make certain the rotors/wheel bearings are not loose also . lift the wheels off the ground then grab the top and bottom of the wheel and try to wiggle it . there should be nearly zero play.



PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

[El Camexican]

Had this happen on an F150

Had the stock rotors turned in, Mexico, warped a few days later. Ran up to Laredo for new rotors at Pep Boys, started pulsating by the first stop light. By the time I got to I got to San Antonio the truck was shaking. Got another set on warrantee and while they were decent they were never as good as the stockers.

[Jd110]

I guess it's possible I bought a box of garbage. Hopefully it's something simple because there was a small glitch in my shipment and it took 4 days to speak with someone.

When the rotors and drums went on I clean the hubs with a wire wheel. Greased the back of pads, front/back of shim & the rear where the shoe rides. Bled the entire system. Pulsation upon medium breaking.

Thinking the pads were not sliding on pins , I took apart fronts again and wire wheeled/greased the caliper pins(even though they were easy out & in. Grease the top/bottom of pads. Lightly filed caliper on top/ bottom where the pads slide. Cleaned mating surface on cylinders(couple of them had some rust). Then I opened the rear and the drums came off too easy. So I tightened them until there was a little friction during wheel spin. Put it back together-seemed almost perfect for a bit then the pulsating came back.

About 20k miles ago I made an emergency stop on dry pavement-ABS all the way! After that stop my brakes pulsated upon hard stops, like when the traffic light changes & you just have enough time to stop. So my factory rotors are warped to a certain degree. Undersized pads on these trucks, toyota made them bigger in '03.

I wonder if I should put the factory rotors and drum back on after having them inspected/ turned and sell this stuff to my friend, since he likes it ha ha. I kinda suspect it to be in the rear since it's seems the entire vehicle shakes all the down to the foot pedal.
Here is a picture of the factory shoes before I got them https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170520/23c87298c94716dda0c7a34b680376c0.jpgapart. Still some life left. They seem to be about 50%.

[oile]

I bet it's the front rotors. Seen it a dozen times.

[Jd110]

I bet it's the front rotors. Seen it a dozen times.
Well, that'd be 11 more times than me. I hope you're right, oile, that's any easy fix---for a machinist. which I am not.
The folks at the dealership are nice but this crap probably doesn't really appeal to them.

[oile]

Ok if it was the back you could apply your e brake and that would only use your rear brakes and you could tell from there if that was your problem. I'd put money on it is front rotors just have them turned it will go away promise. Oh don't forget to torque your rims down in an star pattern. I've seen idiots just tighten in an circle with an impact that is an big no no.

[barnett468]

When the rotors and drums went on I clean the hubs with a wire wheel. Greased the back of pads, front/back of shim & the rear where the shoe rides. Bled the entire system. Pulsation upon medium breaking.

As was mentioned, this is typically a warped rotor problem.



Then I opened the rear and the drums came off too easy . So I tightened them until there was a little friction during wheel spin. Put it back together-seemed almost perfect for a bit then the pulsating came back.

These should have zero drag . Tighten them until there is a little drag then step on the brake pedal to center the shoes . If they still drag, loosen them slightly . If they do not drag, tighten them slightly until they do then step on the pedal again . If they still drag, loosen them until they just stop dragging.



About 20k miles ago I made an emergency stop on dry pavement-ABS all the way! After that stop my brakes pulsated upon hard stops, like when the traffic light changes & you just have enough time to stop.

This may or may not have warped the rotors . They need to be machined to tell or be checked with a dial indicator to be certain . I t is also possible that the pads you used were not broken in ("bedded in") properly and/or they are crap or not matched for your particular driving and they left uneven deposits of material on the rotors . This typically causes more of a "shudder" in the front end under moderate to hard braking than a pedal that pulses in height.





I wonder if I should put the factory rotors and drum back on after having them inspected/ turned and sell this stuff to my friend, since he likes it ha ha.

If you drive normally, I would do that and never would have switched to anything else if they are still good.



PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

[Jd110]

These should have zero drag . Tighten them until there is a little drag then step on the brake pedal to center the shoes . If they still drag, loosen them slightly . If they do not drag, tighten them slightly until they do then step on the pedal again . If they still drag, loosen them until they just stop dragging.








PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR
Thanks, I'll try that this morning. Hard to believe new rotors would arrive warped, out of the box. I mean, I believe you guys, it's just tough luck, maybe. Thanks for all your replies

[barnett468]

Thanks, I'll try that this morning. Hard to believe new rotors would arrive warped, out of the box. I mean, I believe you guys, it's just tough luck, maybe. Thanks for all your replies

We had a $5,000.00 brake machine and often turned brand new rotors and could see that they were not perfectly true when we cut then . Untrue is different than warped but will produce a similar pulsating pedal feel.


PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

[YTZ drew]

I agree that rotors are often untrue even when brand new, seen it many times. If any shop around you has an on-car brake lathe, have the rotors turned on the truck. That will make them as close to perfect as anyone can hope for. Dealers almost always have one as it's required for mist warranty brake complaints. A lot of higher end independent shops have them too. Heck, the high school where I teach has one. We use it more than we use the old aamco bench lathe.

[Jd110]

Ok if it was the back you could apply your e brake and that would only use your rear brakes and you could tell from there if that was your problem. I'd put money on it is front rotors just have them turned it will go away promise. Oh don't forget to torque your rims down in an star pattern. I've seen idiots just tighten in an circle with an impact that is an big no no.

I tried the ebrake from 45mph and it vibrates pretty good. Went back and adjusted the rear like barnett suggested. They were tight so I loosened them. It's a little better but still noticeable.
I'm going to try to get the original rears back on before monday, to see if that will smooth it out. Having around 30 kids here tomorrow for 8 y/o birthday. Got to find some time.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170520/963b5ca6b8671ba4fa1a85d5de95da79.jpgbrembos already rusty. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170520/b1fc64f538253cc12825216e07078f4a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170520/3523040ea152fbfcb99bbda3ba20cf1c.jpg


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[oile]

Do have the brake shoes on correctly some manufacturers have an primary shoes and secondary shoe.

[Jd110]

Do have the brake shoes on correctly some manufacturers have an primary shoes and secondary shoe.

Pretty sure I do. I was careful to put them together the same way they came apart. Also, I've compared the before and after pictures and they look the same. My last option before I give it up is to put the original rears back on. It didn't have this problem before. Brakes were smooth until I would brake hard, then there was slight wheel shake. Thanks for your help oile

[Jd110]

[QUOTE=Jd110;1452558]My last option before I give it up is to put the original rears back on.

Scratch that idea. I've got to turn my attention elsewhere for now. Oile made a good point via phone call. The boxes appeared to be compressed during or before shipping that could have damaged the drums. I'm going to let the dealership tell me what's wrong. I'll let you guys know what they say. Thx

[Rob Canadian]

Sorry I could not chime in earlier. Slap the old drums on. Quick look and the shoes look correct...

I have seen bad rotors and drums in the aftermarket world. You purchased a good quality product. BUT stuff happens...

I see no problem putting the old drums on even you have new shoes. It is just a test.

[Jd110]

Ok. I'll give it a try here real soon. Thanks :)


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[Jd110]

They work perfectly, now. The Brembo drums are not true, maybe? Thanks again everyone. I'll always check trueness, first.


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[Jd110]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170522/cc7b4f2ab394c3c1811bcaf6b85bbb59.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170522/824d945ec84b843871378d01fd1cbf0e.jpg
It's going to be awhile until I need the new rears. Not a good purchase right now. Live and learn I guess.


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[Rob Canadian]

Glad you figured it out. Honestly you would have payed a bit of money if Toyota looked at it to check run-out. 1 hour(?)

Do you want my PayPal address? :)

[Jd110]

Rob, Yes you did save me a lump of change, today. . You can bet I thought of you and the others today as I drove what felt like a new truck. I truly appreciate your optimism and encouraging advice last night. Honestly, I was going to let the dealer solve it. Thanks for chiming in.


I called the seller this morning and they are willing to give me a refund. I called the dealership to see what they thought about turning them for me. They suggested to sent them back. So I'll probably do that. Cheers!




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[El Camexican]

Re the Brembo type high-performance namebrand parts, there are the Brembos you see on racecars and the Brembos guys like us can afford and they aren't the same thing. Case in point, the Brembo calipers on a GP bike are probably worth over a 1000 bucks apiece, the ones that come on a KTM, or a Ducati are probably worth no more than a couple hundred bucks. Same goes for Exell motorcycle rims, Ohlins shocks and many other parts I'm sure.

[Rob Canadian]

Glad it all got sorted out. :)

I come from a big Toyota family. :)

[yaegerb]

Glamy, what year is your shee?

[Jd110]

^^^shee sounds like a beautee!


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[yaegerb]

`03 limited edition with black rear plastic ......i hid the original yellow and black rears......

I knew there was a reason we got along so well. I am about done with phase 2....pics coming soon.

[yaegerb]

When you get the chance to take it out on the big sand and big space ..........you really get to air it out and see why these things were made .......it`s a beautiful thing kind like surfing .....but i prefer the light front end of the 250r in big dunes it`s just easier to toss around .......a little more satisfying........... but i like the growl of the twins too !!!!!

Well, I keep saying I am going, but next year isn't just talk. I will be at the invasion with the shee and maybe another bike that will be in the works soon.

Hopefully phase 2 will be done soon. Would like to share the upgrades.