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View Full Version : 1984 Honda ATC 200 ES - Spark issue



jakez470
03-08-2018, 03:37 PM
As the title describes i'm having a spark issue. I replaced the CDI, coil, rectifier, spark plug and checked all the wires. I also inspected the pulse generator and it appeared to be in good condition. Disconnected the kill switch and ran through all the wiring with no issues found. I am running out of patience with this and i am looking for other options to solve this spark issue.

DAM shop
03-08-2018, 04:26 PM
As the title describes i'm having a spark issue. I replaced the CDI, coil, rectifier, spark plug and checked all the wires. I also inspected the pulse generator and it appeared to be in good condition. Disconnected the kill switch and ran through all the wiring with no issues found. I am running out of patience with this and i am looking for other options to solve this spark issue.

have you replaced the plug cap? Have you done any ohms testing?

jakez470
03-08-2018, 05:17 PM
have you replaced the plug cap? Have you done any ohms testing?

Yes i have. I have done some ohm testing but I'm not sure if I'm doing it right and what numbers to actually look for.

DAM shop
03-08-2018, 06:20 PM
250896
These are off of a 185/200 not sure if it works for the es..
Maybe someone else will chime in and offer some input..

jakez470
03-08-2018, 06:38 PM
When i am checking the resistance or ohms do I just need to have the ignition on?

Jd110
03-08-2018, 08:16 PM
http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/honda/1984_200es_bigred.pdf
Here's a link for the manual. Page 73? Check the gap on the pulse generator. Also, check your exciter coil(black with red wire coming out of left side of engine by pull starter) If you are measuring voltage, you'll need to crank it over. But for resistance, just select the lowest setting on ohms with ignition off.

mendoAu
03-10-2018, 04:09 AM
Just when I was getting pretty sold on Champion spark plugs I picked up a four pack on e-bay....straight out of the boxes two had a nice spark and two had no spark...go figure. So now before I go thru all kind of changes I'll take the plug out and try it on something I know is up and running with a good spark. (I don't "install it" just test it. And yes, of course I did some troubleshooting before I found out it was a bad NEW OUT OF THE BOX plug. I've also had problems with my 200es when the battery is low....it cranks the starter just fine but the ignition system faulters/fails. Double check that the ground wire on your coil is CLEAN and tight. I'm also not to pleased how the small threaded end of the plug is somewhat loose in the boot terminal (New coil/wire) and it seems to be that way in allot of cases unlike the tight fit with the larger connector/plug wire connectors/boots. I did a little searching and it appears that one of the reasons behind the "threaded" terminal is for cases where some wires have eyelet connectors which are fastened onto the plug under a nut. Anyone figure out a solution to have a tighter fitting connection? Tightening up that little clip ain't so easy to get to on some boots.

86125m
03-10-2018, 11:28 AM
for goodness sakes don't run champion plugs in these bikes they don't like them.

Jkoht
03-14-2018, 12:42 PM
Use NGK plugs. Also have you considered the stator? My 83 185s lost spark for no apparent reason and after replacing every other electrical part like you did I was left with only the stator. I bought a new one on eBay, a flywheel puller, and a cheap soldering iron. Pulled it all apart on Saturday and had it back together in an hour. One pull and she fired right up.

jakez470
03-25-2018, 02:02 PM
I'm getting good resistance out of the stator. Could it still be that?

wonderboy
03-26-2018, 08:25 AM
Three things:
1. Never buy Champion spark plugs for anything (run NGK)
2. Those Champion plugs you bought on e-bay are 99% likely to be fake anyway (so even worse than Champion plugs). Buy your plugs at the car parts store, they really aren't that expensive
3. Check out this thread regarding the CDI: http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/144910-1984-200ES-CDI-Replacement-MythBusted . Is this the CDI you replaced it with, or did you use a used original?

mendoAu
03-26-2018, 11:52 PM
Ahhh....the old NGK versus other plug story. I live on a BLM mining site and just off the top of my head can list at least 14 small engines that I try to keep running. Things become complex at times and just found Champion plugs the best overall for everything. I guess if you only buy a couple of plugs now and then you might consider them cheap but when you try to have a couple back-ups for everything it becomes a bit spendy. I've had problems with them all. However I'll put my daily runner 84 up against anything with an open mind and see the outcome. And you might be right about those 4 online plugs..I noticed that the printed logo was "weak" and not as dark as most. The problem I encounter is that some plugs are scarce in the local shops.

ps2fixer
03-29-2018, 05:30 AM
I know it's been beat to death, but I'm also on the bandwagon of running NGK or Denso. It's really simple, if it's a Japanese engine, run Japanese parts. Some of the newer American made stuff is starting to come with NGK factory. In the automotive world, what ever the vehicle had factory is what is strongly suggested to use. The simple logic is because that's what the engine was designed to run best on. If you think spark plugs are costly, what in the world do you do about oil changes and other maintenance items?! Don't forget the 200es has a rear diff, so it has oil there too.

Here is what the service manual says the engine calls for on the spark plug. There is no 1 plug for all applications, get the right one per engine besides just the brand.

https://i.gyazo.com/d9412e660e0d8d5164aea4d412130ad4.png

Another note on spark plugs, just because it sparks out in the open doesn't mean it will have good spark when installed, there's proper testers for this, but the plug has to be installed in the engine to test. A great tool to have is a PET-4000 inline spark tester which tells you if and how good of ignition you have (you can bypass the spark plug if it could be the cause).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vShfKez9vo

Anyway, there's a lot that can cause no spark. First thing I'd do if I was there would be to put all the original parts back on and test them per the service manual specs and only replace parts out of spec if there are any. Since we are working with the ignition system, the major parts are coil, cdi, pulse generator, stator (alternator) and the main harness. Here's some screen shots from the 200es service manual.

https://i.gyazo.com/5c84b6774712948ba1e8ff4353cf51c0.png

Interesting that the service manual first points at the wiring being bad and more or less suggests for you to test the wiring and inspect the connectors.

https://i.gyazo.com/f3d9187eb591a660a373e50edfba48af.png

https://i.gyazo.com/94f3f1c6e6f6747a89238af95fb100c4.png

As for how to use a multi meter, it's pretty much follow the instructions and photos. Basically, when you test for resistance (measured in ohms) no power is needed in the circuit, when you are testing voltage you need power, since no power = 0v.

If all the electronics are within spec, then the only thing I can think of is the pulse generator gap, cdi, or wiring all of which are a bit more advanced for the average consumer to test (the CDI is basically swap with a known good unit). We can go down that path later if needed.