200es engine removal

[digaholedumper]

Hi there, I am a new-be on this forum, I have just bought a "" 1985 200es shaft drive "" to restore / use, & starting with the motor she has no compression, looks like she has been used with no air filter for a good amount of time,

Just wondering how we get the motor out of the frame !! It looks like one of them Chinese puzzles,, Had a 2nd bike for spares all ready stripped, popped the head & barrel off the spare engine & they are both tidy, tight with a standard bore ( not worn ) so planning to fit these to the bike I'm keeping,, ( once I get the engine out ) .

How dose that engine come out ?? :confused::confused:

[ps2fixer]

Well, it is basically one of those Chinese puzzles, but Japanese instead lol. Of course remove all the bolts holding the engine in. Should be able to get it up about an inch or so to get it off the spots the engine mounts are and slide it forward enough to get the shaft to slip off the output shaft (nothing holds it on if I recall correctly). I don't think it was spring loaded, but you might have to help it off some while holding the engine etc. Once the drive shaft is free, you have to get the angle just right to turn the engine in the frame enough to clear the top end and the top of the frame and pull it out.

All of this is based on memory, but it's something along those lines. Never had the chore of putting one back in yet, but in theory you could reverse what you do to install it. The chain drive models are a bit easier to sneak in and out it seems like, plus a fair bit lighter to hold.

Anyway, good luck on your 200es project. Over here in the US, we only got a 1984 ATC200ES, in 85 the big red was upped to the ATC250ES model which is more or less a complete redesign.

[Gabriel]

Tilt lean tug

Tilt lean tug


(Insert your favorite profanity)


Tilt lean tug.



It’s fun!!
Getting them out is easier than in. Getting them in without scratching your fresh paint job will teach you swear words you’ve never used before too.

Good luck.

[digaholedumper]

Tilt lean tug

Tilt lean tug


(Insert your favorite profanity)


Tilt lean tug.



It’s fun!!
Getting them out is easier than in. Getting them in without scratching your fresh paint job will teach you swear words you’ve never used before too.

Good luck.

Thanks both for you replies,

[digaholedumper]

Thanks both to your replies, you will be happy to know this is the motivation I were looking for, Guess the engine spins clock wise as you sit on the seat " Happy Days "

[ps2fixer]

Yea, pretty sure I've always got them out the right side of the frame. It's a fun puzzle, you just have to work with it for a while lol.

[bigredlance]

Out is pretty easy after you get everything disconnected. I've had mine out twice, the first time went back in better because I had the rear axle/ driveshaft housing out. The second time I didn't have the rear out & the universal joint assembly has female splines on both sides with a spring pushing it forward from the driveshaft. It was pretty challenging to get the splines aligned & at the right angle to slide together. If I had to do it again I'd be tempted to pull the rear end until I got the engine in.

[ps2fixer]

I have a feeling if a Honda dealer had to pull the engine, They'd pull the rear diff since it's like 4 bolts + the support bars for the hitch. For got to mention that was another option, but generally out isn't too bad. Never had to reinstall a 200es one, but I've done a 250sx before and the rear diff/axle was being replaced too, so I cheated and installed the engine with the drive shaft pulled lol.

[digaholedumper]

Next problem,,

My 200es is a 1985 model according to the serial plate, Looking on ebay on your side of the water for top end engine rebuild kit inc piston & 1984 is the latest ones listed,

My bike is std set-up with 65mm piston,, > Will a 1984 kit fit / piston + ring & gaskets <

[ps2fixer]

Pretty sure the 85 200ES engine over there is exactly the same as the 84 200ES engine over here. I don't know where I could validate that though. I'd need like a Honda Dealer site to look up UK part numbers to cross reference.

[digaholedumper]

Cheers, all comments are helpful,

[digaholedumper]

256287

Dragged the 200es out the shed today to start the engine rebuild, all been well the motor will be out by night !!

[digaholedumper]

256288

Success , Motor out a hell of a lot easier than a 1982 200 chain drive I had done last time, just dropped the starter off & it slipped out the front to the left hand side, once everything was undone, " Happy days " can't wait to get inside her !!.

[ps2fixer]

Congrats, now just memorize the process exactly so you can reinstall with the same success and no scratches if you do fresh paint =).

[86125m]

yea I've busted a many a knuckle and smashed a lot of fingers getting those motors in and out.

[digaholedumper]

Going to get it running before we paint , one good thing about pulling it to bits a second time will be no seized bolts :cool:

[digaholedumper]

256306256307

Engine stripped, & built back up, still not sure why it would not run before, the bore was very moist when pulled down, all been well she will run when bolted back together !

[digaholedumper]

Had some more time getting towards finishing my rebuild today, & yes she now runs like a dream all been well we will have the rear fenders & seat back on tomorrow & take it for a good off road test, the rear breaks still don't work & need stripping so will have to go steady with only front breaks.

Pulled the valves out of the old head today & it looks like the problem not running may have been caused by a massive build up of carbon on the exhaust valve seat & not allowing compression, Having bought it as a none runner we were looking for the problem blind,

All in all a good result now she is running :D

[digaholedumper]

Oh, forgot to ask - Dose any one know why there may have been such a ridiculous amount of carbon under the exhaust valve seat ?

Thanks
BB

[ps2fixer]

I'd guess it was running too rich. Makes sense if the exhaust valve was sticking open a little that you'd have lack of compression and running problems though, seems like a good spot for the possible main problem.

[digaholedumper]

I'd guess it was running too rich. Makes sense if the exhaust valve was sticking open a little that you'd have lack of compression and running problems though, seems like a good spot for the possible main problem.


Ok thanks for the reply, After having a decent test ride today I noticed she is also running very lumpy on tick over & stops after about 15 seconds when left ticking over, any ideas on possible causes ?256315256315

[ps2fixer]

Some new terms there that I'm not used to seeing, might be a UK/Europe thing?

Guessing tick over = idle? and Lumpy is mis firing?

Pull the spark plug out and take a photo of it. Black gunky looking plug = poor spark or carb adjusted too rich, white powder = carb too lean, light brown powder = just right.

Here's a photo reference, these are from a car which has an ECU, so normally can get a perfect mixture, but for us with carbs, generally a tiny bit rich is ideal. The closest plug looks about like what I'd want the 3 wheeler plug to look like, ones in the back are likely too perfect to be attainable without an ECU setup or tuning every week or more. Much darker brown or black is what I'm expecting to see from your machine though.

https://www.golfmk6.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22597&d=1341885586

[digaholedumper]

Some new terms there that I'm not used to seeing, might be a UK/Europe thing?

Guessing tick over = idle? and Lumpy is mis firing?

Pull the spark plug out and take a photo of it. Black gunky looking plug = poor spark or carb adjusted too rich, white powder = carb too lean, light brown powder = just right.

Here's a photo reference, these are from a car which has an ECU, so normally can get a perfect mixture, but for us with carbs, generally a tiny bit rich is ideal. The closest plug looks about like what I'd want the 3 wheeler plug to look like, ones in the back are likely too perfect to be attainable without an ECU setup or tuning every week or more. Much darker brown or black is what I'm expecting to see from your machine though.

https://www.golfmk6.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22597&d=1341885586


Thanks for the plug info, will have a play around with the carb a bit later, the spark seems pretty good when I checked that.

[ps2fixer]

The visual spark means nothing unless it's orange/red which is 100% weak. You can have bright blue/white spark and still have weak spark. A proper tester gaps it around 6mm and if it can't jump the gap it's not enough spark to run the engine while under compression (10x more dense air + fuel droplets in the air and like 200mph winds).

Here's a good video to show this can be the case. The tester he uses is a fairly expensive one but is a nice one if you work around engines a lot. It's an Oppama PET-4000, there's cheaper versions of it that are not adjustable. It's kind of like a simplified KV tester (wider the gap, the more KV). Since the engine runs, I'd assume it doesn't have weak spark, but it can be a possible issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dipmevU5cjU

[digaholedumper]

The visual spark means nothing unless it's orange/red which is 100% weak. You can have bright blue/white spark and still have weak spark. A proper tester gaps it around 6mm and if it can't jump the gap it's not enough spark to run the engine while under compression (10x more dense air + fuel droplets in the air and like 200mph winds).

Here's a good video to show this can be the case. The tester he uses is a fairly expensive one but is a nice one if you work around engines a lot. It's an Oppama PET-4000, there's cheaper versions of it that are not adjustable. It's kind of like a simplified KV tester (wider the gap, the more KV). Since the engine runs, I'd assume it doesn't have weak spark, but it can be a possible issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dipmevU5cjU

Just had a play about with the idle mixture screw & she seems to be good on tick over now, she runs nice & there is no flat spot when rev'ed up, thanks to every one for all the advice & encouragment. The next job will be a rear dif bearings in about a month they have a small amount of play when you rock the bike left to right.

I will pop some more post's up once we get into this,

Happy new year to ya all ,,

[ps2fixer]

Not a problem, glad you got things working well.

Rear bearings should be pretty easy, assuming the rear axle isn't rusted up like the 99 warrior my dad and I mudded like crazy for several years before replacing them (it took a press and a lot of heat to get it apart).

While you're checking bearings over, check the swing arm bearings, steering stem bearings, and front axle bearings. It seems they fail at a similar rate, probably more due to conditions more than general wear.

[digaholedumper]

Not a problem, glad you got things working well.

Rear bearings should be pretty easy, assuming the rear axle isn't rusted up like the 99 warrior my dad and I mudded like crazy for several years before replacing them (it took a press and a lot of heat to get it apart).

While you're checking bearings over, check the swing arm bearings, steering stem bearings, and front axle bearings. It seems they fail at a similar rate, probably more due to conditions more than general wear.

Cheers , will go right through it " The middle part is done now " the back end next & then finish on the front , some time in the future .

[350for350]

Don't worry about swingarm bearings. A 200Es doesn't have rear suspension so it has a solid "swingarm" with no bearings.

[ps2fixer]

Lol oops, kind of forgot we were talking about a hard tail.

[wellys88]

Do you have a picture of the rear of the bike I'm interested in seeing what decals are on the rear of the fenders. That's. Cool project. Best of luck with it!