Disappointed in today's Honda plastics

[honda200x1987]

Honda is really going down hill on their quality on plastics and paint! I have owned several Honda Recons and the plastics fade easy and the paint peels off, WTH!they no longer powdercoat? The paint peels right off the frame and if you power wash the rims paint flys off them to. I am really disappointed, I wouldn't be surprised if they are getting complaints, guess it's all about profit .I noticed some parts are no longer made in Japan, that explains it alot, I'd bet the fenders are made in China.

[ps2fixer]

Yea, I've seen a few parts state made in China from Honda and that's some older parts even. What year are your Recons? My dad has had a couple Rincons (03 and what ever year was the first for fuel injection) a 2012 Big Red side by side and a 2002ish 450 Foreman. Haven't notice any fading on those machines, but they are stored inside when not being rode, and I'm in Michigan, so less sun here.

A lot of Japanese companies are doing the same thing, trying to cut costs t keep product prices down (or increase profit whichever). Like Toyota was nearly 100% made in Japan parts, around 1995 they started making a bunch of parts in the USA. Hate to say it, but the USA made cars vs Japan built cars, the Japan imported ones are still better quality. Like the Toyota 4Runner is still Japanese built, while the Tacoma/Tundra are USA built. First thing I noticed on two parts Tundras was the door pins are SHOT on both of them, I've NEVER seen any Toyota with shot door pins. Even the 1992 pickup with 517k miles is tight. That's partly why I drive a 98 T100 (last Made in Japan larger pickup before the Tundra), and a 1990 Lexus (Toyota's Luxury brand) LS400.

The "Made in China" tag isn't always the end of the world, but more often than not it's lower grade than what it could be. Products made in China have been getting better and better over the years, just wish they'd get their act together and actually focus on quality and quality control.

[oldskool83]

Sell your Honda save your money and go buy a Yamaha. I wanted to buy my wife a new Yamaha Kodiak 450 because it was better in every way over a Honda rancher........she liked the rancher the best due to size so i bought her a 2015 with 18 miles. I'm currently stripping the machine right now and removing i'ts junk camo painted plastics....it has black under the camo.

Your paying for the dealership and brotherhood experience of HONDA, take a look at their dirt bikes and street bikes....everything is top notch great. Honda does not really care about the atv market or else they would care to give new models, cutting edge stuff. They only want to give people what has been working and is safe. A lot of Honda atv stuff is made in USA anymore because USA holds the biggest ATV market, not china however the brand is focusing the design efforts in other markets, not the atv market. This rancher will hold is value nice, not sure why other then its a Honda. Ive already thrown out about 10lbs of junk off the atv.

My neighbor works at Honda for the last 30 years, he only rides the stuff pre 2000's and knows theirs been change, its not designers, it comes from above saying either design this or that. Now add a flooded market or a market you have been past in well over 10 years ago....you really gonna spend energy to bring you to the top...nope. They are marketed differently now.

And everything is held together with pop rivets on this freaking thing...everything!

[ps2fixer]

Yea no fan of the plastic pop rivets.

Interesting that you view Yamaha as a higher quality product now. I don't have experience with 2000+ Yamaha stuff so I can't really comment at all. My dad's first quad he bought new was a 1999 Yamaha Warrior. Right off the trailer from the dealer it had starter problems. I think it took 3 starter rebuild kits before it stopped failing. Besides that it's been a solid machine, we beat the hell out of it, horrible mindset my dad was in. Basically, if it's going to break, he's going to make it break while under warranty. I bought the machine off him something like 12 years ago and it just sits now since I got into the Honda 3 wheelers. It was starting to smoke a little at higher rpms, like you gun it, let off, then gun it again and it would puff a bit of visible smoke, guessing valve stem seals. The 84-85 Honda stuff seemed more reliable than the Yamaha and I beat them pretty similarly. The 2002+ Honda's my dad bought he actually took care of and didn't try to blow them up mudding them etc, so they are all in more or less great shape and never had any parts replaced to date besides a couple accidents where plastics got messed up.

My cousin bought a newish Can am Renegade 800, and that thing was really interesting to ride. It reminded me a LOT of my 350x except the weird feeling of having 4 wheels and no shifting. Couldn't make the thing wheelie though on flat ground. My cousin mudded it a few times and got water on the belt and it slipped and it went into limp mode. Not sure if he ever got it out of limp mode but he sold it within a few months after that. He switched to main off roading in a Toyota 4Runner, and his Jeep Cherokee. Kind of funny he spent a bunch of money on a lift kit for the 4Runner, and his friend has a sky jacked Jeep Cherokee and I went though the same mud as them with my stock T100 (pickup vs SUV alone is a disadvantage). I got stuck in the last major mud hole, I slipped into the roots from the guy with 36in tires and my 32in's couldn't find anything to grab. Had water coming in on my floor boards lol.

[oldskool83]

Canam is junk. I mean it's high end junk that's not gonna last. Evey Yamaha sport quad til the raptors came into play were junk. I'm building my daughter a blaster but it's mixed with 250R and will have a Honda motor.

Freaking canam can be fun, I've pulled two out of the woods in last 3years. You own a high tech quad I must go to dealer for service. Even this rancher might. I'm all for efi but I can't solve thrown codes. Not my job not my problem, goes to dealer lol.

I'm turning this ranchet to a xc style toy, so much is getting thrown away. Still wish wife liked Kodiak more. Go look at new stuff, make everything old look like junk.

Honda's are just a name associated with a memory. Either way I'll cut anything up.

Like these stock 2012 grizzly 700 alum rims. Freaking Honda used heavy steel and two dif sizes. Grizzly rims saved me half the weight. Monday I'll draw up renforce outside rings to be water jet cut and have welded in. My neigbor can't belive what I'm doing. I told him doing what Honda won't.

Next im throwing away racks for poly ones off a polaris. Who knows what I'll get into next...oh head deck why not. Free power is nice.

[ps2fixer]

Yea, my dad really wishes his Big Red side by side was a 1000cc, it's more of a utility machine. It does damn well out in the woods hauling wood, but then again, a tiny Toyota pickup truck, bobbed and shorten with welded rear diff would do about just as good (the side by side has 4 wheel diff lock). Of course the Toyota would haul more weight with the solid rear axle. Whenever my T100 would fit to get wood, I could haul about two loads worth of wood that the side by side could handle, both without racks. I later got racks, so I can hold around 2.5 of the side by side loads now. Of course the T100 has a smaller box being a mid sized truck, and it's a short box (6.5ft I think) because of the extended cab.

On the rims, I guess Honda just wants to stick to reliable vs performance. Steel bends less often and alum rims can be hard to have a good tire seal, aka it's common for alum rims to leak slowly, even on cars/trucks. For utility I'd prefer steel rims, for sport alum all the way.

I agree the EFI stuff is made a bit more complicated than it should be. I guess they are banking on the fact the owner will take it to the dealer instead of wrenching on it their self. With good documentation EFI systems are generally not too bad to deal with. I grew up working on EFI cars/trucks though, carb is defo simpler in the fix/replace parts area, but you have to have a good ear for good tuning, or a machine to analyze the exhaust. It's kind of like analog signals vs digital, analog will almost always work even if it's poor signal, digital breaks up and has all kinds of fits with any kind of interference. In the end digital gives higher bandwidths and quality, but only when it's working right.

I'm kind of in the same boat, I don't mind cutting up old machines, you can't save them all, and if it's a trashed machine, it would have most likely gone to the scrap yard anyway. My dad put a Yamaha TX500 engine in a early 90's blaster frame. I have to build a wire harness for it some time in the warm weather and finish the exhaust system and such. Should be a blast with a stock HP of 49hp. It was originally built to be a cheap beater for a mud toy, those tires were used on our 99 Yamaha warrior and would go though more mud than any stock 4x4, atleast from back then. Mud wheelies were a thing too lol, heck I could drive thing thing up a 5 foot snow drift after 5 or so attempts. On the blaster, my dad remounted the swing arm about 6 inches back, and centered it in the chain so less chain wear and such. I think we were planning to put a tensioner on the bottom side to hold the chain tight too since it ended up so long. The quad came from the local atv junk yard, and the bike engine was from a wrecked low miles bike my dad got on a trade or something like that. Engine was lightly seized, couldn't kick it over, but the electric start was strong enough to break it free (lube in cylinders etc). We've ran it a few times like 12 years ago and it sounds to run awesome. Probably will be pretty crap in the trails since it's so much heavier and longer, but straight line will be a blast lol.

[86125m]

Well after seeing all the new bikes that are out there I think I'll just stick with my old 200m and 200x the new stuff just doesn't seem as well built and there are too many darn electronics on them which is fine on my car but a bike that I'm gonna take through water mud and sand I think not! Just about the only new bike I would buy would be the honda recon as it seems to have that old honda feel and still has a carburator but I just don't see this bike as any kind of upgrade from my 200m and it definetly won't be as fun as my 200x.

[oldskool83]

Kfx700 puts most things to shame. I own one. It's getting elkas built for me since my wife didn't want it anymore and I sold my 60hp raptor hillclimber. One of the best bikes I owned. 20hp is ok but I'm too use to things with power. I'm over trikes build so many none really performed right but a built 200x

[ps2fixer]

What all did you do to the 200x? I've rode air cooled 250r's and a couple 350x's and about 5 different 200x's and the 200x felt over geared under powered like crazy compared to the others. My 250sx was as fast or faster than the 200x's, but maybe all of the machines were piles of crap. I know the 250r and 350x are not exactly built or anything, 350x's both have a good running engine, but no mods that I'm aware of.

I sold the two 200x's because of the experience I've had with them. Never did a compression test or anything though to check the engine health. They were nice and light and nimble though.

A built 250r can make like 50hp+, I'm not super crazy on 2 strokes, but for a fast 3 wheeler, I suspect that is where it would be at.

[oldskool83]

I build a $6,000 200x that felt like a 400ex. My old threads are on here. I used 83r suspension. I spent a few hours cutting crap off this rancher. Everything's bolted together with plastics plates and pop rivets. Cool thing is cutting plastic is nicer then metal. I prob took off 2lbs of plastic up by the radiator. I'm still not done. While machine is closed up so tight you can't wash crap off the motor. It's got about 5lbs to loose yet.

[oldskool83]

i never said KFX700 had 60hp. my build raptor did. please learn to read.

[fabiodriven]

Oldstool you are are a friggin wack job dude. You've got more fables than Aesop.

[Dirtweed]

Don't know much about the 4x4s, but my '14 450R looks great after riding and power washing.

256188

[ps2fixer]

I suspect it's a little hard for white to fade =)

[oldskool83]

I took a few things off this rancher. Also beefed a few things up like the sheet metal front bumper, I think the sport quads were less pop riveted. I've been around many 04-14 450R's

[El Camexican]

Honda is really going down hill on their quality on plastics and paint! I have owned several Honda Recons and the plastics fade easy and the paint peels off, WTH!they no longer powdercoat? The paint peels right off the frame and if you power wash the rims paint flys off them to. I am really disappointed, I wouldn't be surprised if they are getting complaints, guess it's all about profit .I noticed some parts are no longer made in Japan, that explains it alot, I'd bet the fenders are made in China.

I wouldn't blame Honda so much as the trend towards eco-friendly products. There's probably a lot of chemicals in 30 year old paint and plastic that aren't used anymore. Mom still has the Tupperware she got for her wedding and my lead saturated plastic Fisher Price stackable cups look exactly the same as they did 50 years before passing through ten kids and hundreds of hours of use in a sandbox. Ask any woman over the age of 80 how long their first set of pantyhose lasted.

It's all cr*p now. The wires I've seen on newer dirt bikes are more brittle after a couple years than the ones on my 30 year old trike.

[ps2fixer]

Not to try to do self promotion or anything, but one of my machines that has my first wire harness I built is around 6 years old and it sits outside. Besides being dirty, it feels just like when I first made it. It's also true 18 gauge wiring, not this 22-20 gauge tiny stuff I keep getting when modifying harnesses and parts from Honda.

I agree though, most things are throwaway now, before you'd get things fixed, now you just throw it away and buy a new one. Because of the cycle it creates, those companies benefit more than real quality ones, so I doubt we will ever go back to "the good old days". However if enough people vote (with their money), the high quality companies can out perform cheap knockoffs. It's a bit of a balance between quality and final price.

Heck, I've noticed it in my life time (31 now) that socks used to last quite a long time, now it's like 2-3 times wearing them and they get holes in them.

[El Camexican]

Not to try to do self promotion or anything, but one of my machines that has my first wire harness I built is around 6 years old and it sits outside. Besides being dirty, it feels just like when I first made it. It's also true 18 gauge wiring, not this 22-20 gauge tiny stuff I keep getting when modifying harnesses and parts from Honda.

I agree though, most things are throwaway now, before you'd get things fixed, now you just throw it away and buy a new one. Because of the cycle it creates, those companies benefit more than real quality ones, so I doubt we will ever go back to "the good old days". However if enough people vote (with their money), the high quality companies can out perform cheap knockoffs. It's a bit of a balance between quality and final price.

Heck, I've noticed it in my life time (31 now) that socks used to last quite a long time, now it's like 2-3 times wearing them and they get holes in them.

Mom says her first pair of pantyhose lasted 2 years. Nylon socks got grown out of (yuck) and your right, todays socks and underwear seem to be wearing out faster, but I find now that it's cheaper to buy them than have them washed at hotels, so I usually toss a bunch of used ones in my suitcase and come home in the last pair when I travel and then buy a new bag at Wal-Mart.

I don't know what's going on with wires. Someone told me that the coatings on newer automotive harnesses are made from vegetable derivatives and that's why rats and mice like to gnaw on them. The ones on my KTM's are stiff as house wires after a few years, but the Polisport plastics seems to be pretty good compared to Maier plastic.

I guess it makes sense not to contaminate the Earth in order to have things last forever, but I do dislike planned obsolescence like salt testing to make sure cars rot out as soon as possible after the warrantees run out.

[ps2fixer]

Not too far off from what I've heard on the wiring stuff, but it's soy based. There's been a few lawsuits for atleast Japanese made vehicles on that topic. Not sure if any American made or other countries were hit with this or not though.

Honda (looks like Honda won) - https://www.classaction.org/news/lawsuit-claims-rodents-attracted-to-hondas-soy-based-wiring
Subaru - https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2017/subaru-soy-based-wiring-lawsuit.shtml
Toyota (sounds lke it was related to the Honda case) - https://www.autonews.com/article/20180705/OEM01/180709830/toyota-wins-dismissal-of-suit-over-rodent-damaged-soy-based-wiring

Seems like around 2012 is when that wiring came into mainstream use, pretty easy solution, but 2010 or older vehicles =). Both of mine are from the 90's, but I fix them up myself to save money too. I have a hard time buying anything 2000 or newer, seems like everything went to plastic around that time.

Wire has been made the same way for a very long time, I don't see why something so critical needs to please the EPA, I'd rather have the interior made from soy than the wiring. It might look like crap in a few years, but atleast the vehicle will run/drive still.

[Dirtweed]

I suspect it's a little hard for white to fade =)

The dirt does get ground into the tank cover from my knees rubbing into it. I ordered a new tank plastic to keep in the basement for when I am old and can't ride it anymore so it looks good. ;-)

[El Camexican]

Bob Lazar says ..........theres no buttons or dials in Alien technology..........it`s all controlled by telepathy ! ........now thats fresh !

Why not? That’s how my d*** worked when I was young, just had to think of where I wanted it to go and bam, it would point the way. Now I need to pull start it. I think the batteries are dead.

[BOB MARLIN]

Marine grade wire is made different than regular wire. The wire and insulation are different because they have to meet strict requirements for marine applications. I bet a wire harness made from it would last a while.

[ps2fixer]

Marine grade wire is made different than regular wire. The wire and insulation are different because they have to meet strict requirements for marine applications. I bet a wire harness made from it would last a while.

I don't know what the specs would be exactly as I never worked with Marine wire, but I can speculate. I'd assume the wire and insulation doesn't have much different about it, maybe slightly more rubbery for better flexibility, and more strand count to handle the vibrations and such (like battery cable grade wire). The big different is how the harness is assembled for that application I think. I'd assume all connectors are a sealing type, all wire splices are water proof sealed, and maybe even the tubing is sealed to the wires.

Application dictates a lot about wiring, like generally speaking very high temp wire is stiff, like the GXL 105C wire I use is much more stiff than the Honda wire that comes on ignition switches, but the insulation melts when I solder to the wires, while the GXL wire doesn't show any signs of heat. There's a couple terminals I don't have a super great crimper for, so I crimp + solder to make sure it's a good connection that won't fail.

Anyway, the old wire that came on these 3 wheelers are over 30 years old, that'd going pretty good. How many tires do you have around that's 30 years old? Even if you didn't drive on them, they tend to dry rot (sun rot) and crack up etc. Pretty much the same process as wire insulation.

If you want to talk about strict standards, check out some aircraft wiring, I can't imagine how much time it takes to twist those wires like that and such. Here's a good read if you have any interest in harness constructions and making a harness for the most extreme of conditions (mainly salt, salt water etc sealing).

https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html

Here's a couple photos of interest.

https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbo/wiring_pix/wicking_salt.jpg

https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbo/wiring_pix/airbus_380.jpg

I always thought network closets were a nightmare to deal with till I saw that pic above lol. Here's an example of a typical network closet (left side). The right side is the same thing, just covers to hide the mess and they tidied it up a bit. Lower left section has a bunch of wires not connected, in the right photo they just removed it, have to love that "marketing" techniques. Looks like the right side is missing some hardware too.

https://www.excaltech.com/wp-content/uploads/Server-Room_with_Logo-1.jpg

Best part is, I wasn't even on the networking team working in those areas, but I didn't mind learning and not having to call some guy at 4am to run a wire for me (was a midnight worker).

[El Camexican]

I was always of the belief that marine wireing was all about the connectors, but a lot of modern automotive connectors seem to seal in a simular manner as the ones I remember.

Sea air will take out a cheap wiring harness pretty fast. My buddy’s Ducati harness came apart in less than two years due to corrosion during shipping. The Japanese used a special grease back then to protect the connectors and Ducati didn’t.

[ps2fixer]

Yea, the northern states have a ton of salt on the roads, and more extreme and corrosive chemicals (calcium chloride) when it gets really cold. For the most part, automotive harnesses hold up just fine here (speaking of atleast Japanese stuff, a lot of usa made cars are known for electrical problems here though, like a grand am/sun fire etc from the 90's era). The worst problem we have here with cars is the body rusting away.

I wonder what kind of grease was used as an anti corrosive. A lot of the terminals I use are tin plated brass. I have a harness on a machine that's been in the weather for around 5 or 6 years now, and it's still in great shape besides being dirty. Kind of my test harness for longevity, and it's the first harness I ever made lol. Anyway, dielectric grease is used a lot in the automotive world, wouldn't be surprised if it was something similar to that, or maybe white lithium grease. I use the white lithium to lube contacts and be a bit of anti corrosion for the China stuff I mod.

I haven't had a chance to make a custom harness for like someone racing on the salt flats down south. Would probably be an interesting build, but I'd need more or less all the wiring and plug in parts to modify.

Anyway, seems like a sealed connector would be good for any application that needs to be sealed. Of course there's exceptions to that, like sealing while under pressure (like under water wiring. In my thinking, the manufacturers of the connectors would want to make their sealed connector work in as many applications as possible so less models to make, and less overhead/design costs etc. I bought some sleeving for bullet terminals that are actually a sealing style which from my understanding is used for jetski harnesses just encase anyone ever requests water proof connections, or my own wiring projects on cars etc where I want to use simple bullets and have them sealed.

I've noticed both automotive and atv harnesses have been using more and more sealed connections. Should be a good sign, but sadly the wire will likely fail after about the same amount of time, just saves some harnesses from failing sooner from corrosion.