Help with my 1985 atc 200x

[Tacky]

Ok guys new to the forum but need some guidance. I just recently put together my old 1985 atc 200x. I went completely through the top and bottom end. New seals, new kickstart ratchets, new gaskets. I replaced the ignition and lighting coils with ricky stator ones new. New ebc clutch with 10% extra power springs. The jug. The cylinder is bored to 66mm, wiesco 12.1 to 1 high comp piston. Then installed new valves, lapped for the head, and installed a web camshaft 214 profile cam with performance valve springs. All new gaskets on the top end. Reassembled and set the valves according to spec. Set the pulse generator to .012 according to the book. So after getting everything back togather tested it. The compression is 120-130 psi. However I cannot get it to start or hit over. I tried to see if i had spark but I cannot verify it so far. The carb has a 132 main jet in it, and fuel is getting to the carb, runs out the drain when you turn the drain screw. The carb is also completely clean inside, went through it before reinstalling it. I also tried to spray a little ether in it to see if it was a fuel issue, but still no hit over. I have kicked this thing until my foot is sore. So what do you guys think. Where should I look next? I checked my wiring and everything appears good, no loose , or damage. Im stumped, and any help would greatly be appreciated.

[Gabriel]

You need to know if it’s firing before you go any further. Pull the plug, stick it the wire and lay it on the head. Being a kick start you may have to have a friend watch for spark while you do the stomping.

From there you can track it down.
Post what you find. There’s still a few around here that post often. Not as many as there oughta be but enough to help with a 200x. Can’t be that much. Ain’t much there for wiring if that’s what it is.

[Tacky]

I was thinking that, just needed reassurance. I am gonna try and check it tomorrow, and see what happens. Way before this build many many years ago, this thing was always hard to start kicking it. I had a 1986 xl 600r that wasn't as bad as this 200, however it did have a compressiom release. So if its the spark, what would be the next step? I do have a spare oem cdi box, spare complete wiring harness, and coil. Before I resurrected it the last time I ran it was 2007. I am anxious to get her moving again.256304256305256303

[Rob Canadian]

Yup. Got to know if you are getting spark.

First I would check the kill switch. Is it on? Trust me I have seen it... Next I would check the contacts inside the switch.

[Tacky]

So I messed with a bit tonight. I checked and I am not getting any spark, that I can tell. I then added a new ngk DR8ES-L plug, no change. I swapped out the wiring harness with the backup, swapped the coil to the backup, and cdi box to the back up. All connections are good. Still no spark. SO I then cleaned the handlebar switch and checked for any visible problems, none found. So I am thinking that its either the handlebar switch, the pulse generator, or the ignition or lighting coil I installed from ricky stator. I did solder in the new coils and protected the connections with heat shrink. I have no clue what to try next really, what do you guys think? Here are the pictures.

256309 256310

[Rob Canadian]

A quick thing to do is make sure that coil is grounded good. I don't rely on the screws doing it. I sand the frame a bit and also the coil where it mounts to the frame. While you have it off. Clean up that connection on the right in the first picture.

[shortline10]

You can just disconnect the handle bar switch to rule that out . I would ohm text the stator as well . Make sure the coil is making metal to metal contact to the frame , same with the motor at least at one motor mount .

[Tacky]

Will check the ground for the coil tomorrow. I did remove the paint from the frame before mounting the coil. The front mount was broken off so I made a new one with a piece of metal and attached it by using a self tapping screw. I am gonna remove it and clean it up tomorrow too. The rear one appears to have been broken in the past and crudely welded back on. I am also gonna check the motor to frame grounding which I am sure could be improved after the primer and repaint. Is their a better way to ground the motor by using other means like was used on later honda's? I also checked the ohm reading to the book values and did not get what the book lists, however I am not that great with a multimeter. However I do remeber checking the stator coil and lighting coil with the meter set to ohms and red on the wire, black on the bare frame and got no reading, or zero, so that could be the problem the motor is not grounded to the frame, and plug coil as well. Thoughts? Thanks for the help, I deeply appreciate it.

[Tacky]

You can just disconnect the handle bar switch to rule that out . I would ohm text the stator as well . Make sure the coil is making metal to metal contact to the frame , same with the motor at least at one motor mount .

Will it run without the handlebar switch connected into the wiring harness?

[ps2fixer]

What were the ohm readings for the coils? red vs black probs pretty much doesn't matter when you're doing ohms testing, the coil has no positive or negative side (it generates AC anyway).

One tip on the multi-meter use, don't use it like a test light, not everything is grounded the the engine on every machine. The probes have to be able to make a full loop in the circuit to get readings.

For the multi meter settings, generally there's 200, 2k, 20k etc. This is the range the multi meter will read in ohms (k = 1000, like 20k = 20,000). You can take readings in higher settings, but they are less accurate. Like if you're reading the pulse generator which should be 50-150 ohms, you want to be on the 200 setting. Letting us know the readings can help diag if it's a bad part, or just lightly out of spec. With aftermarket parts, they might be off a bit (higher ohms) for higher output. Also worth noting the pulse generator doesn't internally ground, so you must take the reading at the two wires coming out of it.

You can also test the ground connection with a multi meter. Put one probe at basically any green wire on the harness, and the other on a clean spot of the engine. Should read near 0 ohms. The harness only has one ground location, and that's right at the coil. I scanned over the wire diagram, and the alternator and exciter coil both are internally grounded, so testing yellow wire to ground for lighting coil, and black/red to ground for exciter coil. Lighting coil should be near 0 ohms, I think most other machine it specs like 0.1-1 ohms. Exciter coil should be 100-400 ohms (2k range).

I hate to say it this way, but throwing a bunch of parts at it all at once is generally a bad idea, just for the fact you don't know exactly what change is causing the problem now. New parts can be bad out of the box etc.

It seems it's quite often harnesses are shotty at best being so old. If it's stiff, brittle, or falling apart it should be replaced. I'd say get it atleast sparking before replacing it though if it's showing signs of being old. Not to plug my own product, but I do make harnesses, I suspect the aftermarket CDI uses the 4+2 style connector (modern) instead of the odd ball 3 & 4 pin connectors.

Electrical stuff to the side. The engine's compression sounds low to me, but then again, it's a fresh bore and such so probably not going to be great till it breaks in. OEM sped for compression is 165psi when it was 9.6:1. I'd think 120psi or so should be enough for it to run though.

We almost need a diag kit to send around with a deposit to get quality test equipment to people needing to diag problems. Reading peak voltage of the exciter and pulse generator would say for sure if they are atleast working or not, ohms testing does pretty good though. Spark quality is normally measured with a special tool that makes the spark jump around 6mm, if it can't jump the gap, it won't spark while under compression.

Anyway, like others have said, there's not a whole lot for electrical on these machines, so my focus would be the power/signal sources and moving up stream (CDI/Coil later).

Also, it's worth while testing the multi meter for accuracy, not the perfect test, but you should be able to touch the probes together and get 0.00 ohm reading at 200 setting. I had a guy recently with a cheap harbor freight meter that read 0.6 ohms, and when I had him test the ignition coil, it was out of spec, the 0.6 off the reading put it within spec though.

[shortline10]

Yes it will run without it connected .




Will it run without the handlebar switch connected into the wiring harness?

[Tacky]

Ok so here it was I did today. I removed the ignition coil and tested it off the bike. Primary coil is 0.4 ohms, secondary coil is 4.21k ohms according to the meter. Factory manual says its in specification.

I removed the top and front motor mount, and removed the paint down to the metal, same to the motor, and reattached them. Also did the connections under the ignition coil under the 2 mounting bolts, and where the trigger small wire slides on. Then reinstalled.

I then unplugged the wires to the lighting coil and exciter coil, the red and black, and yellow. I hooked the meter to the lighting coil and got a reading of 0.0 ohms. Then the exciter coil, reading of 0.0. I had the red lead from the multimeter on the wire, and black on the bare metal where the gas tank rear bolts go in. I then reattached the exciter and lighting coil wires back into the harness. I rotated the engines flywheel to the fire mark. I inserted the red wire from the multimeter into the yellow wire at the connection and grounded the black and got a reading of 0.778K ohms. I did the same for the lighting coil and got a reading of .010 ohms.

I also tested the cdi by testing the blue and green wires and got a reading of 88 ohms, which is ok according to the factory manual. So does this give you guys any clues in diagnosing the issue?


I agree that its not a good idea to just throw parts at it, since it makes it harder to diagnose a problem. I only replaced the parts I knew needed replacement. Reason I did the lighting coil is that the headlight was really dim when it ran years ago. Just replaced the excitier coil since I was already doing the lighting coil. The rest of the parts, cam, valves etc, were to replace worn out parts that did not meet the factory specs for minimum and maximum limits.


You know the thought had crossed my mind, what if I need to unbolt the cam sprocket, rotated the motor 360 degrees and re bolt it back on.

[ps2fixer]

I don't think you can bolt the cam sprocket on 180 degrees off, pretty sure the bolts are off centered slightly so it only goes on one way.

For the lighting coil issue you had in the past, did you try a new bulb? They get dim with age xD. Testing voltage would probably been a good test before swapping them out, never know it could have just been a bad ground.

Anyway, lighting coil spec is connection to ground, so even 0 ohms should be within spec. Most multi meters are not super accurate around 1 ohms and lower anyway.

Not sure why you tested between the yellow and black/red, neither is a ground, green is ground on Hondas (generally). Anyway, what you did was test lighting coil + exciter coil in series which doesn't make much sense since before you got a read of 0? 778 ohms is really high, exciter on it's own should be 100-400 ohms. I attached a cheaply edited photo to visualize the test you did to help show what you measured exactly. Not trying to bash your mistakes or anything (maybe I'm just misunderstanding it?), I'm sure a lot of people could use a little help to grasp the idea of a multi meter. If you perform this test again with one lead on black/red and the other on engine in the 2k range, it should read about the same, never hurts to double check. You're testing the coil's resistance, so be sure they are unplugged and you're reading the engine side of the wires. The other end goes to the CDI and would screw with the readings.

https://i.gyazo.com/e5a4b98f5a4aa77507de5059100de808.png

Also worth a mention, this engine doesn't have points, so rotation of the engine doesn't effect the ohms readings, unless the movement/vibration is making it get/loose connection like a bad wire.

I assume by testing the CDI you mean the pulse generator that's located under the cover that's embossed with CDI (silly placement by Honda). The CDI is a black box under the gas tank. Anyway, 88 ohms is about perfect middle grounds for the spec range (50-150 ohms).

Anyway, where did you get the exciter coil? Was it labeled as high output or something? If it's not a stock unit, it might not have stock readings. The only true way to test it would be with a special adapter for the multi meter to read peak voltage like most modern atv's give specs for (generally 100v min and kick start speed). I'm not sure if the stock CDI's can handle a higher output exciter coil, maybe it took out your CDI? Just thinking out loud.

Just as an FYI, generally the lighting, exciter, and pulse generator coils are very reliable, they only fail from physical contact that breaks a wire or cause a short, or vibration wearing the insulation though shorting the coils out (lower than ohm spec when tested), vibration breaking a wire (no reading when testing), or overheating it by shorting it out or drawing too much power from it for too long, basically burns out the insulation and causes it to test as a short. Under normal use there's very little chance of them failing, but it can happen. There's a ton of sensors on cars that are based on coils (temp, crank, cam sensors come to mind) and they rarely fail too and get a lot more use than these atvs. I get wanting to have the best parts possible for your machine, but sometimes OEM is the best you can get, that's why they were made with those parts to start with.

Anyway, do you still have the OEM exciter coil? If so do the same test on it, I suspect there's a solder point you had to unsolder to swap the wiring over, so that to the metal body area where it normally bolts to the engine would do the same test. Might be a bit of a pain, but if it tests good, might be worth while swapping it back into the engine and see if you have spark. Also be sure if you do or don't have spark now. Spark plug against the head with the wire hooked up and kick it over while looking at it. Should be a blue/white spark. Orange or red is a weak spark.

Hopefully I didn't go in too many directions at once (that's how my mind works). Hopefully we can get down to a root cause for the no start issue.

[Tacky]

Forgive me for my mixture of terms, was going off the factory manuall, and aftermarket parts were listed as. Ok, first when I did the test I checked the yellow wire hooked to the multimeter, and other lead from the multimeter touching the frame. Did the same with the red black wire hooked to the multimeter, and other multimeter lead touching the frame. Thats where I got my reading on the multimeter which was in ohm mode auto. I was going off how the factory manual said to get the readings with a multimeter. So I was testing them one at a time, not both wires coming from the crankscase at the same time. I totally understood about the green wires or frame being the ground.

Yes your correct I meant pulse generator, not cdi. It checked out ok.

Yes I did swap the bulbs before and it didn't change the issue. It would light up realy slowly, and never get bright, even when engine rpm increased. It wasn't bright enugh to use at night time, kinda the brightness of a lit cigarette in a dark room. Thats why I changed the lighting coil with the ricky stator replacement. The exciter coil is also a ricky stator replacement. Here is the link.

http://www.rickystator.com/product/stators/honda/honda-atc200x-75-watt-lighting-coil-all-years

http://www.rickystator.com/product/stators/honda/honda-atc200x-source-coil-all-years

These are the exact ones I used. Here is a picture.

256328

Yes I do still have the original exciter coil, may take your advice and pull the new exciter out tomorrow and put the old one back in. So your saying the new lighting coil sounds good?


The new wiring harmess is in good ahape, not brittle or hard like the original that came with it, that had been hacked on. Thats the main reason I swapped it out. Got another question. The newer harness has a blue and green extra female connections near the headlight plug, look the same as the ones for the tailight at the rear of the bike. What are they for? Extra?

I really do appreciate all of your help, and am thankful I have your help chasimg down this gremlin.

[ps2fixer]

Alright I was probably just reading it wrong lol.

I was hoping the sale page for the coils would list their spec, or if they should be OEM. Might be worth while contacting rickystator and ask them what their part spec should be in ohms.

For the harness I suspect it's the main harness? Was it used, or new aftermarket? I'm the only one that I know of that makes aftermarket harnesses regularly for 3 wheelers, but I saw one person on ebay selling TRX250R harnesses that they made. Probably the best thing is to ohm test those extra wires to the handle bar control connector. Ohm test or put it to the beep mode (beeps when probes touch), and see if blue matches to blue, and green matches to green. Normally blue is brights for the head light, and green is frame ground, but if it was modified by someone, sometimes they throw wire colors at things willy nilly.

I've seen a ton of 250r and 200x harnesses with the head light connector hacked off and replaced with spade connectors. Not sure why though, maybe to run the 350x headlight or something. Anyway, I don't see the extra connections on my stock OEM harness I use for reproducing harnesses.

Since you had problems with the lights even after a new bulb I suspect it would have to be the alternator causing the problem (internal short). There's no regulator on the 200x, so can't put the blame on anything else. I'd assume if wires were shorted out, you wouldn't get any lights, but never done that before on these machines lol. Since there isn't an ohms spec for the lighting coil, a partially shorted one can't be tested for via the ohms test. The second best would be to take an AC voltage reading off it, same process but with the engine running. Idle should be something like 9v or so, and high rpm around 14v or higher since it has no load. If you got fancy and hooked up the lights while testing it, it shouldn't go higher than 15v, and a min somewhere around 9v, maybe less.

Another fun job, but another option could be to swap your old harness back on the machine since the replacement one could have issues unless you know it's from a machine that ran. Harnesses can be tested, but it takes time, basically follow the wire diagram and make sure it has connection all the way though the harness, like black/red from stator area to CDI box. It's not too bad if you can follow the wire diagram, just a lot of probing (don't poke holes in the wires btw, always get connection at the terminals).

[Tacky]

Hmm, The second harness which I purchased seems complete, the extra 2 female terminals near the socket for the headlight bulb appear factory, have the same clear rubber boots as seen for the pulse generator, and exciter and lighting coils in the harness above the motor. Their are no signs of soldering or tampering by anyone. So I just wondered why the connections where their. All the other connections hook up as usual.

The original harness is a mixture of butt connecters electircal tape and is missing the tailight wire from where the top of the motor is to the rear end of the trike. It is brittle, unlike the second one on it now. Thats the main reason I swapped it. Had actually been sitting in my spare parts box in a ziplock since probably 2006. It was advertised as I remember as being removed from a running 200x.

I am fixing to go out and remove the flywheel cover, and install the original exciter coil. I will also take a measurement of the ohms with the cover off of each coil that way I can give you an accurate number for consideration. Will report back later this evening with the results. Wish me luck.

[ps2fixer]

Don't forget to disconnect them before testing =).

If you can, upload a photo of those extra connections. Maybe it's a harness from another machine or something, but I can't recall anything that has the same engine hook ups as the 200x and have a similar layout. I have an 83 and 84-85 (same part number) harness, and an 86 which is completely different and the description doesn't match them on the extra connections. Hopefully things like the CDI connector and such wasn't messed with, if the pin out was changed, it wouldn't spark in that case either, but I'd think it's unlikely someone would move the pins around.

Also before I mentioned the CDI connector as a odd ball 4 & 3 pin connector, that was for the 83 harness, for some reason I was thinking it was an 83 you was working on back then. Anyway, 84-85 was a round 6 pin connector, most other machines that used that connector were the same pin out if I remember right. It's the 86+ 4+2 style that went a bit weird on the pin outs and changed a few times.

There's so many what-ifs with your machine, I'm a bit scrambled lol.

[Tacky]

Hey so am I. I am baffled to say the least. Ok so I removed the left flywheel cover with the exciter and lighting coils inside. I set my multimeter to auto ohm and tested and got this with it off the machine.

Ricky Stator Exciter coil 0.208K ohms

I then tested the oem exciter coil and got a reading of 14.8K ohms

I then removed the ricky stator exciter and replaced it with the oem that came with it.

I got a reading of 14.5k on the oem exciter coil reinstalled.

I got 00.0 ohms on the lighting coil. I rechecked the wiring, and reconnected everything. I checked for spark, still no joy. I am going back out their now and take a picture of the harness behind the headlight where the 2 extra leads exist.

I may very well have the wrong harness, we will know shortly, but everything hooks up as it should.

[Tacky]

OK, here is the picture of the harness where the handlebar switch plugs in. You can see the black wire that connects and the headlight plug, then the 2 extra wires with female connections.256344

256345

Those are the ones in question. One is green, and one appears to be a white or tan color.

[Gabriel]

According to tne wiring diagram I just looked at, there are two unused connectors that split off from the trip meter connections.


A different diagram shows two unused connectors toward the rear of the harness.

These manuals are anything BUT complete although it seems to be the consensus that there ARE 2 unused wires on there somewhere.

Despite the differences (location) in diagrams, they show to be the same.
Check to see if you get continuity between the unused connections and your tail lights. If so, they must be for an accessory of some sort as one is hot and the other is a ground.
If that ain’t it, I’m lost.

[ps2fixer]

According to tne wiring diagram I just looked at, there are two unused connectors that split off from the trip meter connections.

Can you post a link to the diagram? I assume it's probably the generic 3rd party ones that I find more mistakes in than the Honda branded service manuals. I'm guessing the diagram shows the split more along the lines of going to the meter and back out, so if the meter isn't used, the core harness connection is just used, aka no extra connections?

Here's the 83-85 ATC200X wire diagram from the Honda Shop Manual
https://i.gyazo.com/6983adb1d0273169fa7db0019ba75bdc.png

The only extra connection points in the diagram is at the tail light connector, they use a double female terminal, but only one is used, still same number of wires though.

Also for giggles, I figured I'd show the 350x harness which actually has extra connections for the speedometer. It's near the top left area where it says OP. (optional). Those extra wires are actually part of the handle bar switch harness instead of the main harness.

https://i.gyazo.com/83af7ee3ab57c8fcc8f8bb2ae443853f.png


Also @ Tacky your photos didn't show up. The upload thing on here is kind of weird. Assuming you're using a pc, do the same steps, but once the image pops in the bottom bar, just close the window and hit reply/submit or whatever the post button is and it should attach at the bottom of the post. The insert inline is for fancy formatting and stuff and it seems to break things easily. If there's no reference to the image in any post, I'm pretty sure it gets deleted off the server. No clue what it would look like on a cellphone.


Oh I also have a fancy image I made based on OEM harnesses to ID years and such. Since your machine is an 85, I'd assume your harness should match the 84-85 layout. I don't really cover the handle bar controls/headlight area though. I attached the image with no insert inline stuff, so it will show up at the bottom of the post.

[Gabriel]

There’s two different diagrams on the 3WWORLD home page.

[Tacky]

Ahh, let me try this again.

256348256349

[Tacky]

I have more clues. I was looking at the harness near the headlight plug, and found a part number on a white tag, the tag was ripped in half but here are the numbers I got off it.

38100 965_0103 Don't know if that helps the numbers are barely legible Also I checked the wires coming from and going into the 5 pin harness, it is 6 with one missing and all the colors match on both side of the connector, had to use a little acetone to remove years of old paint.

[Tacky]

The tag on the harness..

256352

256353

[Tacky]

Here are the pictures as an attachment in the event they did not come through the other way.

[ps2fixer]

That's a weird setup, the headlight connector disconnects?

Here's the part number from that white tag - 32100-965-010 which comes up as a 84-85 ATC200X harnesses. I'll add a photo of my stock harness so show the difference.

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/32100-965-010?ref=f683e209c00a2118425c20a6bd97471a4eb24db6

Maybe I'm looking at the photo wrong, it just looks like it plugs into the harness, but I think it's backwards, the handle bar controls are what it's plugged into, seems like a lot of slack for the harness in that area. Anyway, yea those colors are pretty sun faded. The two wires coming out would be green and brown, so it would light up a bulb when ever the lights are turned on. So yea in this case, the Honda service manual is lacking info, both 83 and 84-85 harnesses have those connectors (called bullet terminals). I need to build some "real" wire diagrams that are 100% accurate instead of this hit and miss stuff.

Nice to see I should be able to make the harness reproduced simpler for the average person. I probably should make a "bare bones" full harness, vs a full reproduction, and of course the no lighting wiring race style.

Anyway, here's the 3ww diagram from the 3rd part manual, which ironically is more accurate this time than the Honda made ones. Gah why does so many things have to have mistakes around the electrical stuff lol.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85515

[fabiodriven]

It's threads like these that will always keep internet forums at least somewhat relevant. You can't do this on the book and even if you could, it would be a fart in the wind, lost information. Carry on boys.

[ps2fixer]

Yea I agree, I poked a little on facebook (not a normal user here even though I was a pc tech), and it's just all chaos, no order, nothing preserved. I don't really get the point, horrible for tech discussion that won't ever be found by search engines. I could see it great for asking questions to a business, or general chat with family that doesn't need to be referenced later.

I really need to make a thread some time pointing out all of the Honda service manual mistakes. I think this is like #7 or #8 that I've seen so far and I'm only really focused on the 3 wheeler models.

[Tacky]

Hey so am I. I am baffled to say the least. Ok so I removed the left flywheel cover with the exciter and lighting coils inside. I set my multimeter to auto ohm and tested and got this with it off the machine.

Ricky Stator Exciter coil 0.208K ohms

I then tested the oem exciter coil and got a reading of 14.8K ohms

I then removed the ricky stator exciter and replaced it with the oem that came with it.

I got a reading of 14.5k on the oem exciter coil reinstalled.

I got 00.0 ohms on the lighting coil. I rechecked the wiring, and reconnected everything. I checked for spark, still no joy. I am going back out their now and take a picture of the harness behind the headlight where the 2 extra leads exist.

I may very well have the wrong harness, we will know shortly, but everything hooks up as it should.



So with these measurements do they fall into ok? I also have the correct harness?

Still no spark so what steps should i take next, or check. Cdi box? Pulse generator? Spark advancer?

I did disconnect the handlebar switch, and gave it a few kicks, still no fire.

[ps2fixer]

Ah yea, I didn't go over the numbers.

0.208k or 208 ohms for the exciter is within spec.

14.5-14.8k ohms for the OEM one is way out of spec, I'm not even sure how it could get that high.

I was also just talking to a guy on the phone about some tech stuff around CDI's and such and mentioned your issue, and he bought up a good point. Did you check the gap on your pulse generator to rotor (under the CDI cover on the head). Also based on what he told me, you can install the pulse generator 180 degrees off and there's a small adjustment for timing.

Spec should be 0.012-0.016in or 0.3-0.4mm. There's also photos in the service manual to reference if it's 180 degrees off or not and how to time it. It's all under the electrical system, page 200 and on for the one I have.

[Tacky]

Hmmm more to ponder. I did check the gap on the pulse generator it is set to the book spec, did it with a feeler gauge. As for the oem exciter coil, now that I have put it back in, guess I am gonna have to pull it again, and put in the ricky stator again sinxe it is in spec. I did think that was a wild difference between the 2.

So that was the right wiring harness correct? I assume so.

As for the pulse generator I installed it per the books instructions, the marking dot on the base, the line on the advancer and line on the generator. I set the pulse generator at its 12 o'clock setting while the crank was on the firing mark. I thought about the timing advance however the book was showing that was set with a timing light and the motor running, which will be hard for me to do since I can't get the spark to get it running. That is unless I missed something somewhere but I have read that manual many mamy times trying to figure this out.. It seems it would be hard to put the spark advancer 180 degrees off since it has a pin on the camshaft that it has to go over to be installed correctly. Monday I am gonna pull the pulse generator cover and reinspect that and resolder in the RS exciter coil that is within spec. Working at the firehouse today. Keep the ideas coming, I need the help, and a stiff drink.

[ps2fixer]

Haha, yea electrical issues can be stressful. Half wish I could just show up there with my multi meter and peak voltage adapter I built and probe around and get a better idea what the problem is. Also, yea the harness should be the right one, atleast the part number matches your machine.

I don't think the guy I was talking to was talking about the rotor being 180, but the actual pulse generator plate. If it matches the service manual, it should be right though.

Not sure how you feel about buying extra tools/adapters and such, but if you want, you could throw around $25 at a cheap peak voltage adapter. This should allow you to read the voltage out of the exciter coil (min is generally around 100v at kick starting speed), and the pulse generator should be min 0.7v. My 350x reads 80v for the exciter and 1.2v for the pulse generator at a soft kick and it's fast enough for it to run off of, granted different coil, CDI etc than your machine, but should be pretty similar stuff. I can help with the peak voltage test if you buy the adapter, it kind of gives a true number what's going on, even though the ohms readings should be accurate enough. Aftermarket parts kind of throws the ohm specs out the window a bit though.


Sort of unrelated/off topic rambling vvv

I have an idea for a thing to dev to try to help with some of the electrical issues on 3 wheelers in general (mainly Honda). Not sure about it being a product to sell, but maybe something to rent out or something. Basically I've been getting into electronics and micro controllers quite alot lately, and in theory I should be able to make a tester that would plug into the CDI plug and read the Ohm resistances like I've had you do with the multi meter, and also flip a switch or something (or press a button) to turn it into a peak voltage tester (exciter and pulse generator could be tested at the same time). Might even be able to get fancy enough to piggy back it so the OEM CDI could be plugged in to start the bike to take running measurements like spark advancement and to see if the coil is even getting any sort of signal to fire from the CDI box. A lot of the things could be done individually with some thinking like small light bulbs and such, but a self contained tester would probably be pretty nice I think. At least it would take some of the guess work out of if the right wire is hooked up and such. Of course this whole thing is just an idea, I haven't played with electronics to know just how easy/hard something like that would be to make, and clearly it would need some sort of display. I would have to do a lot of testing on my own machines to be sure something like this is even accurate lol. Clearly it wouldn't be limited to one machine, and it would be more or less the same for any atv/engine with the same CDI pin out assuming the specs are the same/similar (should be able to program them in fairly easy assuming there's enough memory for it). If not, could always have a web page or print out of the specs per machine.

Another similar project I'm hoping to do is a CDI tester, basically one that simulates the exciter coil and pulse generator coil at any RPM I want to make it go at. In theory I should be able to adjust how strong/weak the voltages are to test how low a CDI can go before cutting out etc. I have yet to properly trigger a Chinese basic analog CDI with one, but haven't spent much time on it, just burned up one of my AC power supplies from an old NES that had a bad cord at the console plug area. I think I had some conflicting circuits hooked up, like instead of having an ignition coil, I had the peak voltage tester there, which might have been drawing too much power for the AC power supply (the cap inside charges though the coil from what I've seen/followed on the diagrams and it was more or less a short instead of the low ohms load).

Anyway probably should stop talking about electronics, not really going to help the issue at hand unless I had it built lol.

[Tacky]

Yahtzee, I think I found the culprit. Last night I could not sleep, when I get something on my mind just wanders aimlessly. So I decided to get up about 4am. got my stuff ready for work then decided to go ahead and replace the exciter coil back to the ricky stator, that measured correctly. Well after removing the old one, I had to short of a wire. So I pulled some more and noticed that the wire was broken where it enters the the flywheel cover. Both were actually, but being they are insulated with 3 diffferent sheaves it is fairly easy to miss that small detail. So I removed the broken wires and reinstalled 2 new 18 gauge wires through the gasket on the cover. I then put the factory outer sheave back over the wires. I then took an ohm measurement and got the same readings I got on the actual coils. So the wiring is now good. Didn't have time to try it, but tomorrow definately will. That could have been the problem all along, and a stroke of luck lead me to it. So I keep my fingers crossed that it was the culprit. One question, do you think the 18 gauge wire is large enough size for the load?

[ps2fixer]

Yea, 18 gauge wire is the standard goto size. It can handle something like 12 or 15 amps for a short distance. There's wire sizing calcs out there to show limits etc, longest wire run is like 6ft and that's to a 5-10w tail light.

The thing that is really critical though is the wire insulation. Most generic wire will melt at a low temp, you need some good quality high temp wire like 105C rated. I personally use purely high temp wire for all of my harnesses and sub harnesses. It's a bit stiffer, but who cares when it's not going to melt if it touches the exhaust pipe for a short time. I've hit my solder iron set to around 300c on the insulation before and not have it melt. The wire I use lumps into the more generic rating of GXL which is common for car injector harnesses that are located right on top of the engines.

I could make you full pig tails to get you all new wires for your stator for a pretty reasonable price. I'd just need to know the longest wire length.

The only thing I'm not sure of is if your machine has a wet style alternator or not (bathed in oil). My wire is speced for oil resistance, doesn't say oil proof, not sure what the effects would be if it lived it's life in oil. I should message my wire supplier and see what they say and I suspect they would recommend another product of theirs. Stator rewire kits might be a fairly good product though, of course the rewire part of that is stator to harness, not rewinding the stator.

Anyway, congrats on finding the issue, that's one of those things that can't be seen over the internet lol. Now I wonder, did you test the OEM coil directly on it, or though the wire for the 14k+ reading? Pretty sure that should be your root cause of the no fire, just seems to match up perfectly.

[Tacky]

Yea, 18 gauge wire is the standard goto size. It can handle something like 12 or 15 amps for a short distance. There's wire sizing calcs out there to show limits etc, longest wire run is like 6ft and that's to a 5-10w tail light.

The thing that is really critical though is the wire insulation. Most generic wire will melt at a low temp, you need some good quality high temp wire like 105C rated. I personally use purely high temp wire for all of my harnesses and sub harnesses. It's a bit stiffer, but who cares when it's not going to melt if it touches the exhaust pipe for a short time. I've hit my solder iron set to around 300c on the insulation before and not have it melt. The wire I use lumps into the more generic rating of GXL which is common for car injector harnesses that are located right on top of the engines.

I could make you full pig tails to get you all new wires for your stator for a pretty reasonable price. I'd just need to know the longest wire length.

The only thing I'm not sure of is if your machine has a wet style alternator or not (bathed in oil). My wire is speced for oil resistance, doesn't say oil proof, not sure what the effects would be if it lived it's life in oil. I should message my wire supplier and see what they say and I suspect they would recommend another product of theirs. Stator rewire kits might be a fairly good product though, of course the rewire part of that is stator to harness, not rewinding the stator.

Anyway, congrats on finding the issue, that's one of those things that can't be seen over the internet lol. Now I wonder, did you test the OEM coil directly on it, or though the wire for the 14k+ reading? Pretty sure that should be your root cause of the no fire, just seems to match up perfectly.

Yes, I was lucky to find it, very hard thing to do, given its location, and amount of insulation, or sheave on it. The 14k reading was directly on the oem coil, removed from the trike. The 208 ohm readings were from the ricky stator coil off the trike directly on the coil, and after wiring in the new wire and installed on the trike. So I should be good to go. Think the distance for the 18 gauge wire is maybe 2 feet from the motor to the connection on the frame above the motor.

Yes the alternator is a wet setup or bathed in the crankcase oil on mine.

I may take you up on the harness. How much are we talking? Also what kinda adapter do you have to measure the voltage on the pulse generator, lighting coil, and exciter coil? I might be interested in that also.

Wish me luck gonna take a nap after a long shift at the firehouse, then get up and see if that 200x will crank after the repairs, and completing the wiring.

[ps2fixer]

The adapter is just called a Peak Voltage Adapter, here's a random ebay listing for one. If you're into electronics I can post a schematic for one too. Basic theory behind it is the AC power charges a capacitor though a Diode (takes the ac and makes it dc in a nut shell), and the multi meter reads the capacitor's DC voltage. There's a 0.7v drop from the diode for the reading, but it seems the service manuals just care about what the meter says instead of the real world number. Also it's worth mentioning that at kick start speed, it should be generating 100 or so volts, so probably not the best first electronics project (do as i say, not as I do lol).

The ebay listing looks like it isn't a mass produced unit, but looks to be fairly good quality yet, and it's the cheapest one on ebay, so if it works, can't really fault it. Personally would prefer standard probes instead of the clips, but they should work fine if you pull the insulator cover back for getting into the female bullet connector far enough to make contact. If it's built anything like the diagram I found, it should have a resister to discharge the capacitor slowly, so the voltage will drop when the engine isn't turning, might take a few kicks to get a good peak voltage reading.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DVA-DIRECT-VOLTAGE-PEAK-READING-ADAPTER-MICRO-SIZE-WITH-SOLDERED-CONNECTIONS/233067519067?hash=item3643e81c5b:g:SS8AAOSwN-la06-W:rk:2:pf:0

This is great for atv engines and such, but probably has no real other use. Like 120v AC is measured in RMS, the true peak voltage is more around 170v. I didn't do that with my home made tester, I cheated and used an AC power supply that drops it down to about 10v on my meter in AC mode (aka RMS) and the peak voltage was around 14v.

Oh interesting, the listing says the warranty is life time. Might have to pick one of them up just because of that and put that to the test lol.

For the wet alternator setup, I'll have to see if my wire is suitable for that application or not with my supplier. If it is, I can make the pig tails for $20 shipped and you solder and cut it to length as needed (all wires made at the 24in length). It's worth noting you'll need some flux to solder to the wires, they solder well, just the nature of soldering (unsure how experienced you are with that). If I have to buy special wire, I'll have to see how much it is and if I have the funds to stock the 5 different colors (6 if I grab yellow as well for like the 200s engines). I doubt the wire would be much more if they suggest something else, so I suspect $20-25 still. If I had a nice list of people that wanted these I could probably lower the price since I'd be making them more in a bulk setting.

Anyway, lets hear the update about the 200x running before you go buying the peak voltage adapter (unless you really want one anyway lol).

[Tacky]

ITS ALIVE......ITS ALIVE....

The wiring repair worked. After rewiring the harness from the excitier and lighting coil and making the connections, and soldering in what needed it, pulled the plug and checked for spark. Nice and blue. Sprayed some ether in the jug, and fired it over. Took a couple kicks but on kick 3 the motor came alive with the choke on full. Shut off the choke and let it run. Had to open the windows in the shop and let the smoke out from assembly. I had the idle high since in the directions it says to let the bike run over 2k rpms for the first 15 minutes to allow the cam to wear in according to web camshafts. So I let it run, it burned all the smoke off. I then tried the headlight, nice and bright on both low and high beam. It has never been that bright so the ricky stator lighting coil is doing its job well. I had forgotten how loud that cobra silencer....or lack of is. So after 30 to 35 minutes I tried to adjust the idle down by turning the idle screw. I came down about a turn or turn and a half. Thats where my next help is needed. When I turned down the screw the rpm's came down as it should, but in a very short adjustment I could not keep it running unless I kept my hand on the throttle with it idling where it should be. When you give it the throttle to bring the rpm's up, the rpms go up but when you let off it takes a second for the rpms to come back down, not quickly like my other quads. Kinda like their is a small delay where extra fuel is still being burned off. Their is no strong smell of fuel in the exhaust when its running, or popping from what i usually expect from a lean running machine. The needle is set in the middle position according to the book. The air adjusment screw is set on 2 turns out. I am running the stock pilot jet and 132.5 main jet, so what do I need to tweak to allow it to idle down low? Let me hear your thoughts.

[ps2fixer]

Carb tuning isn't my strongest point (I tune by ear, but can't really explain it). First thing I'd check is the cable routing and make sure the carb is physically closing fast. A binding cable would cause a similar issue.

Also if you adjust the idle screw down and it starts to lean out or starts wanting to die, it sounds like the pilot circuit might be plugged. That's how my 350x is right now, I can run it just fine using the choke to "tune" the mixture, but on it's own right around 2k it just falls on it's face and dies without the choke. Not exactly the same machine, but most carbs work more or less the same way.

Anyway, congrats on getting it running, I figured it would have spark now since the Ohm specs were good.

[Tacky]

Cable is good, pilot circuit is good, cleaned the hole thing myself. I was smelling my exhaust while it was running, and it smells oddly enough that its running a bit lean. Its hard to describe that, but compared to my other quads the smell more rich when running. So tomorrow I am gonna go to a bigger jet and see what happens, luckily I have a plastic container full of jets from both keihin hex heads and slot heads from doing my trx450s, xl600, polaris 500, and many others. Have 100 to 190 in 2.5 steps. So its a simple swap. I have about an hour on the engine running now so I am gonna readjust my valves they had a little tap to them. Other than that I believe I am getting close to the finish line. I did notice that when you switch on the headlight the rpms go down a little, can't remember if thats normal from my other atc's aince last time I rode one was 2002. However the jetting change should change that. Normally when I tune my carbs, I swap the jet, then go ride it and see if its lacking throughout the rpm range, thats usually a good indication since most of the time only true way is putting it on a dyno, however the only close one to me is atleast 4 to 6 hour drive one way. The heck with that. Carbs are usually easier to me than electrical, so I am in the clear.

[shortline10]

Fine tune the idle with the air fuel mixture screw , the stock # 40 jet should be sufficient , the main could be bumped up to a 115 - 120 depending on the mods to the motor .

[Tacky]

Fine tune the idle with the air fuel mixture screw , the stock # 40 jet should be sufficient , the main could be bumped up to a 115 - 120 depending on the mods to the motor .


I tried the air fuel screw, around 2 turns out. The motor is a 66mm overbore, wiesco 12.1 to 1 piston, web camshaft 214 profile cam, stock airbox, but K&n filter ngk r dr8es-l plug. Right now it has the cobra reverse megaphone on it.

I have a 130 main it right now, turns up well. Have the stock pilot in it also. I played with my 5 notches on my needle ended up second from the bottom is the smoothest transition from low to high.

Got tired, so gonna start back at it tomorrow, and see what happens..

[Tacky]

Well I think I got the idle figured out, and set, however I have a brief pause when going from idle to a rev and then when the throttle is released the rpms staying the same for a second or 2 before it goes back to idle. I am thinking its the needle setting, cause extra fuel to be burnt off during that time frame. Gonna try adjusting it and see if that makes a difference.

[ps2fixer]

There shouldn't be extra fuel to "burn off", it should be atomized, aka mixed in the air as more or less a light mist or to the point it's evaporated.

It almost sounds like you have an intake leak. With the engine idling, spray some fluid that's safe and see if the engine reacts in any way around the intake boot and carb. I think most people use carb clean for this since it should dry out and be clean, just keep in mind some carb clean's are flammable. Not sure how safe it will be for paint, the stock frame coatings are very resistant to this kind of stuff though. WD40 would probably work well to. I don't run into this much, just trying to recall what I've read on here, and what my dad has talked about on cars/trucks etc.

Might not be the problem, but atleast one thing to try to eliminate as a cause.

[Tacky]

Ok so what I did was makes sure i had free play in the cable. I snugged the cable up at the thumb throttle. Then went and adjusted the pilot screw out to about 3.5 turns. I moved the e clip to the middle setting on the needle and everything seems good to go. That fixed the lag in the rpm's going down. I did check for leaks everything is good and tight, no intake leaks. About ready for a test ride. Maybe tomorrow.

[ps2fixer]

Ahh cool stuff. I don't think I've ran into that problem before, so interesting it was just tuning.

[shortline10]

With 3.5 turns out on the air fuel screw that simply means the pilot jet is to small . But if it’s running fine and the Spark plug color is good then run it .

Are you sure the pulser is timed perfectly ? This would also affect the idle . With an aftermarket cam sometimes the stock locations won’t give you peak performance .




Ok so what I did was makes sure i had free play in the cable. I snugged the cable up at the thumb throttle. Then went and adjusted the pilot screw out to about 3.5 turns. I moved the e clip to the middle setting on the needle and everything seems good to go. That fixed the lag in the rpm's going down. I did check for leaks everything is good and tight, no intake leaks. About ready for a test ride. Maybe tomorrow.

[ps2fixer]

Update on the wire I have, my supplier says the wire is not suitable for submersion in oil. The rep sent me a copy of their product catalog (90 pages), so trying to go though the wire standards to see if I can find what one would be best for this application. Sadly it seems the actual spec write ups are not for public reading, I don't get why everything is based on something you can't even find a copy of what exactly the standard is.

[jb2wheels]

With 3.5 turns out on the air fuel screw that simply means the pilot jet is to small.

You read my mind. I like a nice, big fat pilot jet. Well, not too fat. Nicely padded. The biggest one that will still kill the engine with the mixture screw turned all the way in.

They start easier, run cooler, and don't lean pop.

[Tacky]

With 3.5 turns out on the air fuel screw that simply means the pilot jet is to small . But if it’s running fine and the Spark plug color is good then run it .

Are you sure the pulser is timed perfectly ? This would also affect the idle . With an aftermarket cam sometimes the stock locations won’t give you peak performance .

Thanks for the input, I ordered a new keihin #40 and #42 pilot jet for it. the smallest I had was a #45 which is what my the base setting pilot jet is for my 99 foreman 450s 4x4.I have a 45 through a 50 when I built that motor also with a wiesco high comp and web cam. So I am gonna try the #40 when it comes in, just less adjustment on the fuel screw.

As for the pulser, no I have not changed it off the factory manual setting, however its on my list of things to do.

Hey a few days off will allow the bruise and pain in my foot to subside. :Bounce

[Tacky]

Update on the wire I have, my supplier says the wire is not suitable for submersion in oil. The rep sent me a copy of their product catalog (90 pages), so trying to go though the wire standards to see if I can find what one would be best for this application. Sadly it seems the actual spec write ups are not for public reading, I don't get why everything is based on something you can't even find a copy of what exactly the standard is.

Thanks for looking into it, The 18 gauge I used seems to be holding up so far. Around 2 hours of run time.

[Tacky]

You read my mind. I like a nice, big fat pilot jet. Well, not too fat. Nicely padded. The biggest one that will still kill the engine with the mixture screw turned all the way in.

They start easier, run cooler, and don't lean pop.

Yep trying to get away from the pop. Easier starting would be Awesome. Nice trikes in your collection.

[ps2fixer]

On the wire thing, the price per ft isn't too bad in somewhat bulk, but I'd have to buy 4 colors at once so it's a fair bit of cost to deal with. I'll have a sell a harness or two to have the funds to cover the order. I think this would be a good product for me to sell since replacement wire seems to be hard to find and I've seem the stator wires get damaged quite often. I have atleast 4 stators on hand that could use the lead wires replaced, that's why I got them, they were soldered to hacked up harnesses people didn't want.

For the wire you're using, if it's not designed for the oil exposure it will do one of two things over time. The wire insulation will swell up and get really soft, or the compounds that keeps the wire flexible are attacked by the oil and the wire gets very brittle and can crack/crumble. If it's good wire, you might not see the effect right away and it will be more in the area where the oil touches the wire. The tests that I've seen on it are to put the wire in oil and heat it up (can't remember the temp), but they keep it hot for 7 days, then test the effects on the insulation. Oil resistant wire will perform better, the stuff I found has a great rating for oil resistance (I guess nothing is oil proof). It's also rated for 200C, my other wire is high temp, but is rated 105C. Typical automotive primary wire is rated 60-80C like you'd buy in the auto parts store.

Do you know if the wire you used is GXL automotive wire?

Anyway, the wire I found is silicone rubber insulated, with a fiberglass braid covering. Looks exactly like stator wire I've seen in the past (with the wire cut), so pretty sure this is the same or very close to the same as what OEM used. Here's a pic to see for yourself (notice the inner insulation, then fiberglass outer layer).

https://i.gyazo.com/db4882237e6cb452fe4e7e71dc067dd3.png

[Tacky]

On the wire thing, the price per ft isn't too bad in somewhat bulk, but I'd have to buy 4 colors at once so it's a fair bit of cost to deal with. I'll have a sell a harness or two to have the funds to cover the order. I think this would be a good product for me to sell since replacement wire seems to be hard to find and I've seem the stator wires get damaged quite often. I have atleast 4 stators on hand that could use the lead wires replaced, that's why I got them, they were soldered to hacked up harnesses people didn't want.

For the wire you're using, if it's not designed for the oil exposure it will do one of two things over time. The wire insulation will swell up and get really soft, or the compounds that keeps the wire flexible are attacked by the oil and the wire gets very brittle and can crack/crumble. If it's good wire, you might not see the effect right away and it will be more in the area where the oil touches the wire. The tests that I've seen on it are to put the wire in oil and heat it up (can't remember the temp), but they keep it hot for 7 days, then test the effects on the insulation. Oil resistant wire will perform better, the stuff I found has a great rating for oil resistance (I guess nothing is oil proof). It's also rated for 200C, my other wire is high temp, but is rated 105C. Typical automotive primary wire is rated 60-80C like you'd buy in the auto parts store.

Do you know if the wire you used is GXL automotive wire?

Anyway, the wire I found is silicone rubber insulated, with a fiberglass braid covering. Looks exactly like stator wire I've seen in the past (with the wire cut), so pretty sure this is the same or very close to the same as what OEM used. Here's a pic to see for yourself (notice the inner insulation, then fiberglass outer layer).

https://i.gyazo.com/db4882237e6cb452fe4e7e71dc067dd3.png

Not quite sure on the wire I used but im gonna check it.

On a positive note I did score a front sprocket cover since the one I had been missing since I bought in 1997. So I am getting a used one to refurb. That will protect the wires and case from chain damage. I also scored the following parts.

Used rear tailight and bracket, which was missing as well.
The rear fender decal, reproduction
Side warning decals
Year model chrome decal for frame
New gas tank decals
Rear brake master cylinder, factory was shot

Gonna replace the rear brake caliper, and getting a new brake line for the extended swingarm.

I am also thinking about getting away from the plastic fuel tank, and going back with a good stock metal one.

[Rob Canadian]

Not quite sure on the wire I used but im gonna check it.

On a positive note I did score a front sprocket cover since the one I had been missing since I bought in 1997. So I am getting a used one to refurb. That will protect the wires and case from chain damage. I also scored the following parts.

Used rear tailight and bracket, which was missing as well.
The rear fender decal, reproduction
Side warning decals
Year model chrome decal for frame
New gas tank decals
Rear brake master cylinder, factory was shot

Gonna replace the rear brake caliper, and getting a new brake line for the extended swingarm.

I am also thinking about getting away from the plastic fuel tank, and going back with a good stock metal one.

Covers for the front sprocket are hard to come by. Nice score.
What did you get for a rear master cylinder?
If you buy one of those cheap rear calipers of ebay or whatever. Keep in mind the pads are JUNK. Get a good set of pads. Side note: the Moose Racing qualifier pads have less meat on them compaired to a set of EBC pads.

[Tacky]

Covers for the front sprocket are hard to come by. Nice score.
What did you get for a rear master cylinder?
If you buy one of those cheap rear calipers of ebay or whatever. Keep in mind the pads are JUNK. Get a good set of pads. Side note: the Moose Racing qualifier pads have less meat on them compaired to a set of EBC pads.

Got the cover for $100, it was not cheap, but I needed one, and as you said they are hard to come by. Think their is one on ebay right now for $150. I got an aftermarket rear master cylinder around $90, I would have rebuilt the oem however its piston is stuck in the top, and cannot get it out. Its full of rust. Its seen better days. I may be able to use my rear brake caliper, plan on tearing it down and inspecting it. I plan on using the ebc pads, I have used ebc's many times in the past, and never an issue. Got a recommendation for a rear caliper, if the original cannot be reused.

[Tacky]

Well, according to the tracking the tail light, and few other parts arrived today. Now ready to get off duty at 7am and go home and
tinker.

[Tacky]

Scored an original 85 tank, no dents, and a few other parts, now I wait for them to arrive. In the mean time a few pics of my progress.

[350for350]

It's looking pretty good. WAY better than the 85 that I picked up in December 2017.256497256498 MAN! I really need to get started on that thing!

[Tacky]

It's looking pretty good. WAY better than the 85 that I picked up in December 2017.256497256498 MAN! I really need to get started on that thing!

Man that is gonna be some work, however thats the same condition I got mine in in 1997, the motor was also like that. In 150 pieces atleast.

I am lucky, I know the original owner that purchased it in 1985. He bought it from a mechanic at the honda shop. I also know the second owner, which is who I bought it from. Originally they had painted the frame blue, along with the blue hubs. It had white plastic like the 86 or 87 but not the same pattern. It has an aftermarket white plastic gas tank. It had no muffler. I did have a ram stabilizer which i still have just need the rear mounting bracket for the motor end. The airbox was removed and they had put a 28mm mikuni flatside carb on it. The spark plug threads were stripped, had to put a helicoil in it too. The rear axle had been swapped for a +4 one, still do not know the maker, but doesn't use 200x rrear sprockets, bolt pattern matches the 83 185s sprocket, which is whats on it 40 teeth. The original owner had a really bad wreck on it, and bent the swingarm pretty badly. He sold it to the second owmer that rode it that way for years, so long it wore the front tire at an angle. Well when I got it I put it back togather to riding condition, but nothing like it is now. I started on really going through it in 2006 but never completed it. Thats when I purchased the maier plastic on it. I fabricated a new swingarm that +6 out of steel, that corrected the lean. In 2006 I started on my 2000 foreman around that time, it is heavily modified. Here is the foreman I built.

[ps2fixer]

I spy some highlifter outlaws. Are those outlaw 2's or the orig outlaws? I guess they make outlaw 3's now too. Older the design, the lighter from what I've read.

[350for350]

That's a nice looking Foreman. The engine of this 200X is the only thing that wasn't torn apart on the trike. I got it for free. The guy I got it from said that the engine had no compression because you could grab the "end of the cam" and spin it over by hand. I took the CDI cover off, and yes, it turns over by hand. I removed the pick up on the end of the cam and there was no pin holding it to the cam. I put a socket on the crank and it sure feels like it has compression. That's as far as I got on this project so far.

[Tacky]

I spy some highlifter outlaws. Are those outlaw 2's or the orig outlaws? I guess they make outlaw 3's now too. Older the design, the lighter from what I've read.

Yes first generation outlaws, just when they started making the 29.5 which is what mime are. Remember then it costed $605 to the door for them. They are hard to beat in the toughest mud. I had a set of 27's before I had those, sold to a friend with a 350 rancher then upgraded. Here is a list of mods on my foreman.

Motor has been bored 2mm to 452cc with a wiesco high compression piston 10.2 to 1 was 433cc stock.
Web camshaft modified performance cam
New oem cam chain, and tensioner
New one way clutch bearing
Highlifter centrifugal clutch springs raises engagement 300 to 400 rpms.
New centrifugal clutch shoes.
Ebc dirt racer change clutch and springs
All new bottom end bearings
New crankshaft
Highlifter pull start delete kit.
K&n filter, carb is running a 155 main jet versus the 130 stock
Dual snorkels I custom built with removable top pipes that thread in to change length. All the air lines run into the snorkel system
Crankcase breather is looped over the carb intake and into the airbox.
HMF performance exhaust.

Drive train.

Warn 4-2-4 select 2x4 to 4x4 shifter
Trac tech detroit locker in the front differential
Gorilla axles on the front
Drilled the rear end for grease fittings on each side of the rear differential, and near the motors universal joint
Original highlifter rear disc brake conversion kit
2.5" highlifter aluminum wheel spacers on front
29.5x10-12 up front 29.5x12.5-12 on the rear with old school itp bullet hole steel wheels.

Suspension
I used the highlifter lift springs purchased 2 new rear shocks, swapped the tops of them with the front shocks I removed and installed them on the front to level the quad out.
Highlifter lift kit, now has 18.5" ground clearance.

Frame and racks has been sprayed with rhino liner
Removed the rear cargo box, added a steel plate and installed a 2000lb superwinch on the rear under the plastic
Front has a 2000lb superwinch also.
Mounted the winch rocker switches recessed in the rack on the front and rear
Warn pushbar bumper with trail lights.

Im sure their are ore details but I cannot remember off hand. I did go completely through the motor, transmission, top end frame and drivetrain when I built it. It is probably the toughest foreman I have come across.

[Tacky]

That's a nice looking Foreman. The engine of this 200X is the only thing that wasn't torn apart on the trike. I got it for free. The guy I got it from said that the engine had no compression because you could grab the "end of the cam" and spin it over by hand. I took the CDI cover off, and yes, it turns over by hand. I removed the pick up on the end of the cam and there was no pin holding it to the cam. I put a socket on the crank and it sure feels like it has compression. That's as far as I got on this project so far.

Thanks for the compliment, I put alot of work Into that foreman, will not sell it either.

Well thats some good news on your motor. It wasn't that bad to tear mine down completely and replace what needed to be done. I built a stand out of wood and used the 4 threaded holes on the bottom of the case to secure it while I was wrenching on it I used a motion pro flywheel puller, and I purchased an after market socket to loosen and tighten the spanner nuts on the crankshaft and clutch. I did by a brand new set of kickstart gears from a guy on ebay, oem. Think my gasket set is a vesrah, and replaced all my seals as well. The factory service manual is your friend, along with the guys on here for technical information. I also have the clymer manual but it doesn't have alot on the 200x in it as opposed to the 185s and 200s, e models.

[ps2fixer]

+1 for the Tiger Shark Superwinch, my dad used a warn wench for snow plowing and the motor failed after like 5 years (he bought it when he bought his 2003 rincon). Since then he's bought the first year of the 680 rincon (2009?) and put on a superwinch, still no problems to this day. I think he's gone though 3 or 4 cables but that's typical with snow plowing. Added bonus is they are cheaper to buy too and all metal gears, none of that stupid plastic gear crap.

I thought the tires looked weird, ones I'm used to are 27in or 28in w\e was the old largest before the 29.5in was the new biggest. My dad's were something like $100 each + shipping and I think the new steel rims were like $50 or $100 each. I think around the time the 29.5in outlaws came out, they had a pretty sizable price jump. We got them like the first or second year they were out.

Anyway, that quad has a lot more mods than I thought it did, it's consealed well. I saw the snorkel setup, figured it had to be home built, but it does look good.

[Tacky]

+1 for the Tiger Shark Superwinch, my dad used a warn wench for snow plowing and the motor failed after like 5 years (he bought it when he bought his 2003 rincon). Since then he's bought the first year of the 680 rincon (2009?) and put on a superwinch, still no problems to this day. I think he's gone though 3 or 4 cables but that's typical with snow plowing. Added bonus is they are cheaper to buy too and all metal gears, none of that stupid plastic gear crap.

I thought the tires looked weird, ones I'm used to are 27in or 28in w\e was the old largest before the 29.5in was the new biggest. My dad's were something like $100 each + shipping and I think the new steel rims were like $50 or $100 each. I think around the time the 29.5in outlaws came out, they had a pretty sizable price jump. We got them like the first or second year they were out.

Anyway, that quad has a lot more mods than I thought it did, it's consealed well. I saw the snorkel setup, figured it had to be home built, but it does look good.

Yeah I think I got the 29.5's maybe 3 months after they came out, their was no such bigger tire at the time. Maybe 2007 or so? Didn't think they would fit but they did, no rubbing. If I had the full floor board foreman things would have been different. Think the new 29.5 costs around 1k for a set now.

Yes I love the superwinch, had a rule 3300lb on it originally that caput. Then I have only used the 2000 supers since, with doubling blocks of course. Never an issue. Like the rocker switch better than the warn with the the solenoid box, or twist switch on others. Seen both fail.

Yes it has alot of hidden gear that gives it great capabilities. If you hear it run, it does not sound like a 450 foreman. I also run 93 with klotz hitrate in it as well, 105 to 110 octane. My polaris gets the same. I have ridden with plemty of guys and pulled back to the trailer many artic cats, polaris and other makers quads that broke belts, axles, or what have you. My foreman may not be fast, but it pulls like a cat dozer. Thats good enough for me. Will add some more pics tomorrow of it in action. Think I have a picture of when I pulled out a bronco II that was stuck on the chasis. Have a picture of it next to a stock 450 I rebuilt too.

Here is my other remaining quad an 2002 2x4 polaris scrambler 500. Its alot of fun, have a set of 21 and 20 maxxis razors on aluminums for it as well as the 23" gators on these aluminums. Its pretty good in the mud, not as wicked as my honda, but way faster. Its also had a few mods done. But I must say its the best riding quad I have ever ridden, like a Cadillac. I have gotten this one up to 76mph at the drag strip, its quick. Would not hang with my 660 raptor I had though.

[Tacky]

Here was another that came and went. I traded this one in on the scramber when I bought it new in 2002. It was a 1995 cr125r, miss that thing, got a broken collar bone on it racing motorcross years back. They don't build them like that anymore, the thumpers are just not the same.

I will post some more pics of other rides I have owned in the past.

[ps2fixer]

It seems a lot of people say good things about the polaris scrambler. Only experience I had with polaris quads was the 500 utility model with the plastic racks. Was really tippy (for a quad) and the front shock setup was goofy. It had the stupid belt drive crap too, does the scrambler have that too? I can see race quads and such doing fine with belt drive, but when it comes to pulling stuff, give me gear to gear.

Can-am seems to make quite a quad too, but it seems to be more of a play/sport utility than hauling, however never tried to haul a yard of sand with it or anything either, not sure about it's belt drive system either. My little 200es hauled a yard of sand just fine, just the hill I had to go up required a lot of speed because of the lack of power. 450 foreman was the same way (more of a traction issue), just less speed needed. I never drove the 650 rincon when it was hauling sand since it was my dad's pride and joy. My dad's yard was low and out in the woods is a high spot with lots of sand. Didn't have the power shovel at that time, so it was the manual shovel for a good 150+ yards of fill. More is still needed but I moved out and my dad got a back hoe lol.

For best riding quad, I'd have to say probably the Can-am renegade 800 my cousin had. I felt like I was on my 350x besides the weird feeling in the front with the extra wheel. I didn't get much seat time on it though, just one trip out in my woods and back. Sucks it couldn't pull a wheelie though with all of that raw power. It was a pretty rev happy engine, while the 350x is more of a torque style engine. Not the fastest like the foreman engine, but it really does have a nice bottom to mid end grunt about it.

I had a junker RM125 Suzuki dirt bike, had a rigged up rear tire on it so I could put around on it, but I was young and tried to weld the sprocket to the AL hub of the rim which didn't last too long lol. After the 2nd time, the engine lost spark. For being only a 125, it really felt like it had a fair bit of power, but I could only just touch the power band and let off in fear of breaking the sprocket off the hub. Have to love being young, poor, and doing stupid stuff lol. I got a RM250 engine with it, but it was full of sand and the jug was missing.

[Tacky]

It seems a lot of people say good things about the polaris scrambler. Only experience I had with polaris quads was the 500 utility model with the plastic racks. Was really tippy (for a quad) and the front shock setup was goofy. It had the stupid belt drive crap too, does the scrambler have that too? I can see race quads and such doing fine with belt drive, but when it comes to pulling stuff, give me gear to gear.

Can-am seems to make quite a quad too, but it seems to be more of a play/sport utility than hauling, however never tried to haul a yard of sand with it or anything either, not sure about it's belt drive system either. My little 200es hauled a yard of sand just fine, just the hill I had to go up required a lot of speed because of the lack of power. 450 foreman was the same way (more of a traction issue), just less speed needed. I never drove the 650 rincon when it was hauling sand since it was my dad's pride and joy. My dad's yard was low and out in the woods is a high spot with lots of sand. Didn't have the power shovel at that time, so it was the manual shovel for a good 150+ yards of fill. More is still needed but I moved out and my dad got a back hoe lol.

For best riding quad, I'd have to say probably the Can-am renegade 800 my cousin had. I felt like I was on my 350x besides the weird feeling in the front with the extra wheel. I didn't get much seat time on it though, just one trip out in my woods and back. Sucks it couldn't pull a wheelie though with all of that raw power. It was a pretty rev happy engine, while the 350x is more of a torque style engine. Not the fastest like the foreman engine, but it really does have a nice bottom to mid end grunt about it.

I had a junker RM125 Suzuki dirt bike, had a rigged up rear tire on it so I could put around on it, but I was young and tried to weld the sprocket to the AL hub of the rim which didn't last too long lol. After the 2nd time, the engine lost spark. For being only a 125, it really felt like it had a fair bit of power, but I could only just touch the power band and let off in fear of breaking the sprocket off the hub. Have to love being young, poor, and doing stupid stuff lol. I got a RM250 engine with it, but it was full of sand and the jug was missing.

The scrambler is belt drive, same as everything but honda now days. The stock belt is not capable of holding the extra horses after you modify it, I shredded a few, so I went with a goodyear powerstreak belt with kevlar. Its made for snowmobiles, 3 cylinder 2 strokes and can hold the modified 500's power. Its not a bike I would want around water, becuase if the belt gets wet, its done until it dries. But it will pull hard, and auto makes it a dream for drag racing. It will run down a 700 kawasaki, and leave the 700 and 800 polaris sportsmans. You peg the gas and it will raise the front end for a mile. So for trail riding, haulin a** and jumping stuff its great, although heavier than a true sport quad like the raptor or 450 racers. It has fox racing shocks on it , and is real smooth riding, all day no fatigue. I have pulled my rodeo with it when it would not crank and needed to move it into the shop, no issues. However I use it more as a sport quad than a workhorse like my foreman. They make a 1000 scrambler now, although I find it hideous, its strong, and fast.

My foreman after I did the clutch mods, and extra horsepower will pull and climb anything. With those clutch springs it makes 25% more horsepower down low, I have hauled a 5x8 trailer full of shingles with no issues. With the locking differential I have you are just along for the ride when it starts pulling. Kinda like a bulldozer. The extra power allows me to turn those 29.5's easily. The 680 rincons problem is the gearing. It needs a gear reduction kit to take full advantage of its horses.
I high recommend the highlifter gear reduction, and clutch springs to get more power to the ground. Problem with the new 4x4 quads, they will wheelie, however they will break the cv's on the front if done repeatedly. The 700 and 800 sportsman are very heavy too, and cumbersome. Seen a few flipped in drainage ditches.

Lets face it a 3 wheeler isn't much for pulling since when you do, you lose traction on the front and cannot steer. So I leave the work to the 4x4's.

My dream bikes, 1986 xr600r, cr500 mid nineties to 2002, the atc 250r, 85, 86, trx250r 88 model. Banshee would be nice. Hopefully one day I will acquire one of those.

Last rm125 I rode was a 91 or 92, that had the crazy paint job. It was fast, at the time I had to get it rolling, kick start it since I could not put my feet on the ground when seated on it. That was in the early 90's.

[ps2fixer]

The RM's I had were like 78 and 79 lol.

Ever have any exerence with the Kawi Big Horn 350 engines? It came on a early 70's enduro. It's a 2 stroke with really good bottom end torque, which isn't typical for 2 strokes. It's low end grunt is like a 4 stroke, but it revs out like a 2 stroke. Really long expansion chamber on it stock. I got 3 of them, the runner was a ice racer, 2nd and 3rd gear are worn out of it. The big difference on these engines is the side of engine mounted carb, just above the crank shaft. It has a rotary valve instead of reed valves. Really a unique 2 stroke design. I have to mess around with those bikes again some time, I think it would be a perfect power plant for the 87 warrior roller frame I have laying around. Never been huge into 2 strokes, but I think a 2 stroke quad would be a good starting place for me. I have a couple air cooled 250r's, one with a broken frame, and the other needs tuned badly and seems low on compression besides basically all the frame bearings are shot.

I guess it's just my style of doing things, have a million projects, and most don't get done because I have other things higher priority.

Locally there used to be a sand rail drags where people would race everything from little 5hp go karts to quads/bikes to jeeps, to dune buggies/sand rails, to actual top fuel drag racer style monster machines. Counting out the $50k+ machines (or whatever they cost to build), the fastest thing on the strip that I've seen was a sand rail with a 2 or 3 cylinder snowmobile engine with the belt drive going to a chain drive. The rear sprocket was MASSIVE, like 2 inches smaller than the tires. Whatever the gearing was, it was just right for the drag strip. Not sure how practical it would be for trail riding though. Same place has mud bogs and tough truck comps too. It got shut down, I think their insurance turned them down and the city bought the land.

[Tacky]

The RM's I had were like 78 and 79 lol.

Ever have any exerence with the Kawi Big Horn 350 engines? It came on a early 70's enduro. It's a 2 stroke with really good bottom end torque, which isn't typical for 2 strokes. It's low end grunt is like a 4 stroke, but it revs out like a 2 stroke. Really long expansion chamber on it stock. I got 3 of them, the runner was a ice racer, 2nd and 3rd gear are worn out of it. The big difference on these engines is the side of engine mounted carb, just above the crank shaft. It has a rotary valve instead of reed valves. Really a unique 2 stroke design. I have to mess around with those bikes again some time, I think it would be a perfect power plant for the 87 warrior roller frame I have laying around. Never been huge into 2 strokes, but I think a 2 stroke quad would be a good starting place for me. I have a couple air cooled 250r's, one with a broken frame, and the other needs tuned badly and seems low on compression besides basically all the frame bearings are shot.

I guess it's just my style of doing things, have a million projects, and most don't get done because I have other things higher priority.

Locally there used to be a sand rail drags where people would race everything from little 5hp go karts to quads/bikes to jeeps, to dune buggies/sand rails, to actual top fuel drag racer style monster machines. Counting out the $50k+ machines (or whatever they cost to build), the fastest thing on the strip that I've seen was a sand rail with a 2 or 3 cylinder snowmobile engine with the belt drive going to a chain drive. The rear sprocket was MASSIVE, like 2 inches smaller than the tires. Whatever the gearing was, it was just right for the drag strip. Not sure how practical it would be for trail riding though. Same place has mud bogs and tough truck comps too. It got shut down, I think their insurance turned them down and the city bought the land.

No never seen the kawasaki you speak of but sounds interesting. Probably oldest I have messed with was the old yz490 yamaha, xr75 honda. I have messed with a early 80's rm125.

The local riding area has a very large expanse, take a couple days to cover every trail. Has a motorcross track, a dirt drag strip, and plenty of mud and trails to explore. Its normal to see over 1k machines in a days time.
I have seen some pretty wicked setups out there. Seen a 350 warrior with a cbr 600r motor, that was fast. You see the banshees with cheetah engines and drag pipes, and all sorts of powerful stuff. Seen a cr500 motor in a atc250r frame as well.
Then you have the normal guys with raptors, 450r's 400's blasters, banshees, etc.

You also see can ams, hondas, yamahas, kawasakis, polaris, and all sort of 4x4 quads and side by sides from stock to unobtainium. Its a great place to ride. Has a couple large lakes that I used to put my jetski in a few times too.

[Tacky]

Here are few others I owned and rebuilt.

2004 Honda F-12X turbo...215HP after mods, bought it brand new in 06 in the crate from the dealership, had till 2016, then sold it. It was 165 hp oem. Only 75 hours, no saltwater use. Funny thing it has the same motor as my 1998 accord 4 cylinder 4 stroke, although I wish the accord had a turbo.

2002 Raptor 660R … It had a pro flow intake, CT racing exhaust and jets, Ricky stator steel A Arms, and several motor mods, really miss it.

1985 XL 600R total rebuild Was locked up and I rebuilt the entire motor, wiesco, web cam, fmf exhaust, it was dual carb, I want a 86 xr600r like it.

Stock 450 and my 450 together... You can see the difference for yourself. You can see my Aquatrax hooked up to my foreman in that picture.

[Rob Canadian]

I got an aftermarket rear master cylinder around $90, I would have rebuilt the oem however its piston is stuck in the top, and cannot get it out. Its full of rust. Its seen better days. I may be able to use my rear brake caliper, plan on tearing it down and inspecting it. I plan on using the ebc pads, I have used ebc's many times in the past, and never an issue. Got a recommendation for a rear caliper, if the original cannot be reused.

What aftermarket rear cylinder? Mine was shot when I got my 200X. Siezed in the bore and bottomed out. I tried heat ETC... Last resort was drilling a hole in the piston. Ran a screw into it and prying it out with screwdrivers on the head of the screw. It worked. Cleaned up the bore. New rebuild kit and all good.
Now my rear caliper was seized also. It had a leak on the piston as the previous owner tried to push it back. Got one of Ebay from China with the E-brake and came with pads installed.. I think it was like $20 USD. Bleeder was in the right place. After I was done with the 2 things everything was good. |Good firm feel on the rear brakes. With that said... My rear pads wore out VERY quick. Like 2 hours of riding. It could be a couple variables on my end... But I had people say the pads are junk and I agree.

[Tacky]

What aftermarket rear cylinder? Mine was shot when I got my 200X. Siezed in the bore and bottomed out. I tried heat ETC... Last resort was drilling a hole in the piston. Ran a screw into it and prying it out with screwdrivers on the head of the screw. It worked. Cleaned up the bore. New rebuild kit and all good.
Now my rear caliper was seized also. It had a leak on the piston as the previous owner tried to push it back. Got one of Ebay from China with the E-brake and came with pads installed.. I think it was like $20 USD. Bleeder was in the right place. After I was done with the 2 things everything was good. |Good firm feel on the rear brakes. With that said... My rear pads wore out VERY quick. Like 2 hours of riding. It could be a couple variables on my end... But I had people say the pads are junk and I agree.

Here is the one I bought... believe it or not it has the same forging id numbers as the original on it, in the same place.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-HONDA-ATC200X-200X-200-1983-1984-1985-REAR-BRAKE-MASTER-CYLINDER/311903544440?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Here is the extra rear caliper I purchased, just chunk the pads that come with it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/REAR-BRAKE-CALIPER-ASSY-FOR-HONDA-ATC200X-ATC-200X-1983-1985-WITH-PAD-BRACKET/321701226535?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I purchased one from ebay as well, and a set of severe duty EBC pads for it. I also bought a rebuild kit for the oem rear caliper. My plan is to rebuild the oem, however if its not possible I am gonna use the one I bought from ebay with the EBC pads. Will be using EBC either way. If the oem works out, will have a spare, if not I am covered. I got the new master cylinder in today, took the elbow off the oem one, and installed it on the aftermarket. Seems nice quality, bolted right up.

As for the pilot jet, I took apart the carb, and it had a #40 in it factory keihin. It was the one that required 3.5 turns out. So I removed it and put in the #42 keihin pilot, and reassembled. Two turns out, purrs like a kitten, and starts easy too. So the #42 worked for me, guess I needed more fuel than the #40.

I also installed a reproduction chrome honda frame tag, correct for 1985 atc 200x on the front of the frame, got the side decals for the fenders repro of the originals, and added another sand scorcher decal repro, my original front fender has a an original on it, on my wall. Now I just wait for the rear brake parts, oem gas tank, rear taillight bracket, and it will be time for a ride. The front sprocket cover is drying, should be ready Wednesday. I did the engraved areas with gold enamel to give it some character and match the rest of the area's I did on the motor. Then clear coated over it.

[ps2fixer]

Nice work so far. Your machines are a lot nicer looking than mine lol.

Here's a clip from a video that shows the 2 stroke rotary valve on the 350 big horn. Doesn't talk much about it, but seems to be a unique design. The hole you see is where an intake boot bolts to, and the carb goes on that. The cover goes up to that air gap over the top of the transmission area and comes out the back side in the center where the carb normally goes so it can hook up to an air filter. The guy that sold me the bike claimed these bikes can keep up with the 500 series bikes from the same era, not sure if there's any truth to that or not, but it's faster than what I wanted to go with the the stock suspention. The pipe on my bike is also factory, so not sure if it's even modified. It does have the fork brace thing I see some have while others don't.

https://youtu.be/iIyHBlTA0Ws?t=154

Here's a short video of one being started and rode around a bit. Sounds like he has a working choke, mine had the choke stuff removed, same with the auto oilier. It sounds like the guy's over reving it to take off, mine I could just let the clutch out at idle and it had enough torque to take off, so just a tiny bit of throttle and it's moving. Mine is hard to start like the video, but again no choke lol, the guy that sold it to me said to just keep kicking it, it will start in time. After like 50 kicks it fired up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E7QJ615K1Q

Anyway, here's some photos, bikes are not pretty at all, but interesting beasts. They are all pretty beat up looking, and I'm not much for 2 wheels, so thinking about fixing the runner engine up (needs 2nd and 3rd gear, they are worn but working yet) and throwing it in a 87 350 warrior frame to mess around on. I only have $300 into them all, that's why I bought them, just couldn't turn down the deal, didn't even know they were 2 stroke till I got there and was kicking it. That pipe looked weird, but didn't dawn on it me it is a super long expansion chamber.

The only other 2 strokes I have experience with is that 78-79 RM125 which was very high strung, no real power till the power band, then it's like it's floored. The other 2 stroke is a couple 81-84 ATC250R's, similar, but not nearly as high strung, wider power band and such. The big horn has an even wider power band than the 250r, like 3k+ rpm is power band, smooth power from there all the way up. Low to mid there's a little jump in power, but nothing super crazy like a typical 2 stroke. Very unique to me, but maybe that's more of the nature of 2 stroke road bikes? My dad had an Indian 2 stroke twin bike, never had a chance to hear it run or anything though, it was put together wrong when my dad's bother messed with it when they were teens.

[Tacky]

Nice work so far. Your machines are a lot nicer looking than mine lol.

Here's a clip from a video that shows the 2 stroke rotary valve on the 350 big horn. Doesn't talk much about it, but seems to be a unique design. The hole you see is where an intake boot bolts to, and the carb goes on that. The cover goes up to that air gap over the top of the transmission area and comes out the back side in the center where the carb normally goes so it can hook up to an air filter. The guy that sold me the bike claimed these bikes can keep up with the 500 series bikes from the same era, not sure if there's any truth to that or not, but it's faster than what I wanted to go with the the stock suspention. The pipe on my bike is also factory, so not sure if it's even modified. It does have the fork brace thing I see some have while others don't.

https://youtu.be/iIyHBlTA0Ws?t=154

Here's a short video of one being started and rode around a bit. Sounds like he has a working choke, mine had the choke stuff removed, same with the auto oilier. It sounds like the guy's over reving it to take off, mine I could just let the clutch out at idle and it had enough torque to take off, so just a tiny bit of throttle and it's moving. Mine is hard to start like the video, but again no choke lol, the guy that sold it to me said to just keep kicking it, it will start in time. After like 50 kicks it fired up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E7QJ615K1Q

Anyway, here's some photos, bikes are not pretty at all, but interesting beasts. They are all pretty beat up looking, and I'm not much for 2 wheels, so thinking about fixing the runner engine up (needs 2nd and 3rd gear, they are worn but working yet) and throwing it in a 87 350 warrior frame to mess around on. I only have $300 into them all, that's why I bought them, just couldn't turn down the deal, didn't even know they were 2 stroke till I got there and was kicking it. That pipe looked weird, but didn't dawn on it me it is a super long expansion chamber.

The only other 2 strokes I have experience with is that 78-79 RM125 which was very high strung, no real power till the power band, then it's like it's floored. The other 2 stroke is a couple 81-84 ATC250R's, similar, but not nearly as high strung, wider power band and such. The big horn has an even wider power band than the 250r, like 3k+ rpm is power band, smooth power from there all the way up. Low to mid there's a little jump in power, but nothing super crazy like a typical 2 stroke. Very unique to me, but maybe that's more of the nature of 2 stroke road bikes? My dad had an Indian 2 stroke twin bike, never had a chance to hear it run or anything though, it was put together wrong when my dad's bother messed with it when they were teens.


Thanks for sharing, that is an interesting engine setup, love that 2 cycle whine. And I was complaining about the compression of the 200x I have. That thing would work ypur legs over for sure. Their is just something about the 2 stroke that calls to me.

Yes I take care of my stuff, it was instilled in me by my father. If you take care of your stuff you will always have something. Plus what I do for a living constantly teaches readiness, all the time, and equipment in top shape, and ready to perform. So thats why my stuff is in good shape. I am a stickler for details, and how I would do them. So thanks for the compliment, its alot of work but labor I enjoy.

I did learn something on youtube about the 200x. Its alot easier to kick it from a standing position facing rearward with your right foot than sitting on it and kicking it forward sitting on the seat traditionally. I am ready to give mine a ride. I start mine alot easier like this guy does in the video.

https://youtu.be/5lwc6-C928o

[Ranvier]

I did learn something on youtube about the 200x. Its alot easier to kick it from a standing position facing rearward with your right foot than sitting on it and kicking it forward sitting on the seat traditionally. I am ready to give mine a ride. I start mine alot easier like this guy does in the video.

https://youtu.be/5lwc6-C928o

I'm used to kicking my 350x so when I got a 200x, I felt like I was kicking the ground. I start mine this way.

[Tacky]

I'm used to kicking my 350x so when I got a 200x, I felt like I was kicking the ground. I start mine this way.

Yes its so much easier. With my 12.1 to 1 hi compression wiesco in it and web camshaft 214 profile, this really helps, I can use the flat part of my foot, versus the arch while sitting on it. 1 kick cranks are obtainable.

[ps2fixer]

I never knew kick starting a machine sitting down was a common thing. I don't think I've ever seen anyone do that before. Michigan is the home of the big auto manufacturers, so the general population can maintain and understands mechanical things pretty well, so maybe that's a factor. We have a bit of a different culture up here, atleast for those that are 30+ (the younger population seems to be slower like down south, but it seems more of a laziness thing). We work to get stuff done, time is money etc type of thinking. I've noticed down south in Kentucky and Indiana people are a lot more laid back and take their time doing stuff.

My stuff is ugly, but mechanically it's sound, or it's stuff I'm not too worried about like front wheel bearings being a little sloppy. I know the bearings don't just wear out in a day of riding and there's no dragging, or grumbling, just a bit of slack in the ball bearings. I do plan to over haul my machines a bit like my ugly 350x that's my go to rider, but I grew up not caring about looks so much and most of the focus on maintenance and mechanical things. I guess that stems from growing up during a period that my family we pretty poor and the fact everything in Michigan rusts away, so anything pretty won't be pretty with 5 years of use. Of course my dad was a mechanic, grandpa was tool and die for GM, so DIY fixing etc was a common thread. Not down playing the looks of machines or anything, my problem is if I get something that looks nice, I don't want to use it so it doesn't get damaged and such lol. I guess it's the same logic as buying a new truck and not wanting to scratch the bed, even though it's made for work.

Anyway, yea that big horn 350 engine has a good sound to them too. I'm not much into 2 strokes, but that's one engine I think I'd make an exception on lol. I'm boarder line on keeping the 250r's or fixing one and selling it off and parting the other out. My dad's gotten into 2 stroke porting a lot lately mainly for chain saws and I showed him a spare 250r cylinder and he right away he noticed things to touch up to make better air flow. Might have him do a mild port on one of those engines and keep it otherwise stock.

Anyway, back on the kick starting thing, depending on the compression level, you might have to push it over slow till you hit that wall of compression, push it just past that where it has kind of a double hump feeling, then kick it hard. That's the trick with the 350x with no decompression system working. Also when you kick, you can kind of drop your whole body and then kick with your leg to put all of your weight into it. When I was a teen I weighed nothing, so kick starting stuff was a challenge, so little tricks like that kept me riding. Also worth saying, a good quality boot/shoe that has a thick soul and good ankle support helps from hurting your foot from kick starting a machine. Also be thankful the 200x and 350x are well designed, some kick start bikes tend to backfire, and when they do they slam the kick starter either back into your foot, or if you slip off it can slam into your leg.

Reminds me, my dad had a Suzuki 370 bike that the rear end was all worn out on. He bought me some pile of crap American made 3 wheeler with a 5hp brigs that couldn't make it up the smallest incline, so he hacked the front end off, welded the bike front half with the engine on it, and drilled/bolted the bike rear sprocket to the 3 wheeler one. I didn't ride it much since I was only like 8, but I remember give it just a tiny bit of gas in 1st and wheeling really easy. My dad beat the shot out of it though lol. Don't remember what happened, but it sat for a while and he pulled the engine and sold the roller frame to the guy next door and never seen it again (probably got scrapped, he's always hard up for money). Anyway I looked up a vid on youtube and it sounds like it's from around 78 as well, the vid I found runs very similar to what I remember, and it's labeled as a 1978 Suzuki 370 SP. Vid just showed the gauges, and yea it looks exactly like the one my dad had.

If I had a spare 3 wheeler frame, I wonder if that Kawasaki engine would fit in it fairly easily. Like a 250r or 200x frame with it would be a blast I'm sure. Anyway, if you dig up one of those bikes, be sure to post what you end up doing with it, I'd follow the build. The bikes were called F5 and F9 depending on the year, I think there was a F7 too, but can't remember for sure. They were from around 1970-1975. Also the 350 wasn't the only one with the rotary valve, I just think it's the most popular machine with it, maybe it's the biggest one.

Not sure why, but I really do like the 70's engine sounds lol, maybe it's because of the points engines or something. The 1973 TX500 road bike engine I have on a blaster sounds great too. I really like the 350x too, so that's a "newer" engine.

[Tacky]

I never knew kick starting a machine sitting down was a common thing. I don't think I've ever seen anyone do that before. Michigan is the home of the big auto manufacturers, so the general population can maintain and understands mechanical things pretty well, so maybe that's a factor. We have a bit of a different culture up here, atleast for those that are 30+ (the younger population seems to be slower like down south, but it seems more of a laziness thing). We work to get stuff done, time is money etc type of thinking. I've noticed down south in Kentucky and Indiana people are a lot more laid back and take their time doing stuff.

My stuff is ugly, but mechanically it's sound, or it's stuff I'm not too worried about like front wheel bearings being a little sloppy. I know the bearings don't just wear out in a day of riding and there's no dragging, or grumbling, just a bit of slack in the ball bearings. I do plan to over haul my machines a bit like my ugly 350x that's my go to rider, but I grew up not caring about looks so much and most of the focus on maintenance and mechanical things. I guess that stems from growing up during a period that my family we pretty poor and the fact everything in Michigan rusts away, so anything pretty won't be pretty with 5 years of use. Of course my dad was a mechanic, grandpa was tool and die for GM, so DIY fixing etc was a common thread. Not down playing the looks of machines or anything, my problem is if I get something that looks nice, I don't want to use it so it doesn't get damaged and such lol. I guess it's the same logic as buying a new truck and not wanting to scratch the bed, even though it's made for work.

Anyway, yea that big horn 350 engine has a good sound to them too. I'm not much into 2 strokes, but that's one engine I think I'd make an exception on lol. I'm boarder line on keeping the 250r's or fixing one and selling it off and parting the other out. My dad's gotten into 2 stroke porting a lot lately mainly for chain saws and I showed him a spare 250r cylinder and he right away he noticed things to touch up to make better air flow. Might have him do a mild port on one of those engines and keep it otherwise stock.

Anyway, back on the kick starting thing, depending on the compression level, you might have to push it over slow till you hit that wall of compression, push it just past that where it has kind of a double hump feeling, then kick it hard. That's the trick with the 350x with no decompression system working. Also when you kick, you can kind of drop your whole body and then kick with your leg to put all of your weight into it. When I was a teen I weighed nothing, so kick starting stuff was a challenge, so little tricks like that kept me riding. Also worth saying, a good quality boot/shoe that has a thick soul and good ankle support helps from hurting your foot from kick starting a machine. Also be thankful the 200x and 350x are well designed, some kick start bikes tend to backfire, and when they do they slam the kick starter either back into your foot, or if you slip off it can slam into your leg.

Reminds me, my dad had a Suzuki 370 bike that the rear end was all worn out on. He bought me some pile of crap American made 3 wheeler with a 5hp brigs that couldn't make it up the smallest incline, so he hacked the front end off, welded the bike front half with the engine on it, and drilled/bolted the bike rear sprocket to the 3 wheeler one. I didn't ride it much since I was only like 8, but I remember give it just a tiny bit of gas in 1st and wheeling really easy. My dad beat the shot out of it though lol. Don't remember what happened, but it sat for a while and he pulled the engine and sold the roller frame to the guy next door and never seen it again (probably got scrapped, he's always hard up for money). Anyway I looked up a vid on youtube and it sounds like it's from around 78 as well, the vid I found runs very similar to what I remember, and it's labeled as a 1978 Suzuki 370 SP. Vid just showed the gauges, and yea it looks exactly like the one my dad had.

If I had a spare 3 wheeler frame, I wonder if that Kawasaki engine would fit in it fairly easily. Like a 250r or 200x frame with it would be a blast I'm sure. Anyway, if you dig up one of those bikes, be sure to post what you end up doing with it, I'd follow the build. The bikes were called F5 and F9 depending on the year, I think there was a F7 too, but can't remember for sure. They were from around 1970-1975. Also the 350 wasn't the only one with the rotary valve, I just think it's the most popular machine with it, maybe it's the biggest one.

Not sure why, but I really do like the 70's engine sounds lol, maybe it's because of the points engines or something. The 1973 TX500 road bike engine I have on a blaster sounds great too. I really like the 350x too, so that's a "newer" engine.

Yeah, most kick it while straddling the seat. I was accustomed to it since most of my kick starts were motorcycles. Xr's, xl's cr's. I kicked them the same way. But the way I do the 200x is way easier. If you try to do it like a motorcycle the foot peg will get you. I guess it just never dawned on me to try it that way.

I got pulled for jury duty tomorrow...ughhhhhhh, but I am hoping to spend a few hours on my 200x between tomorrow and saturday.

[ps2fixer]

Fun stuff on the Jury Duty. I worked with 3 co-workers that served. One Marines, one Navy, and one Army. There was only 6 people in my team lol. The job *was* very demanding, had to know a lot of systems, no proper training material, and more work to do than man hours to cover it. Long story short, we figured out a lot of the common issues with the tech devices and fixed/upgraded as needed and after 4 years, I was bored out of my mind with hardly any work to do. Of course during that time about 50% or so of the hardware was also replaced with new. Of course when I left that job I kind of missed it, but the 50% pay increase was nice, too bad the corp was ran like crap and ended up being an overly stressful job. Demanding is fine, but stressful sucks. That's that job I saved up some extra funds and started doing the harnesses, and once I quit I did harnesses and such full time and have ever since.

Anyway, guess I should watch the youtube video, not really sure now which way you was kicking it lol. Ahh I see, I've always kicked them straddling the seat (not sitting down though). I always thought the 3 wheelers were weird with their backwards kick starter vs the motorcycles. The only machine I've seen started like the video was a Honda Trail 70, it's kick starter is way to the rear if I remember right so it's the only way to do it fairly easily. If you want to see a really odd one, check this vid out. Probably can't see it so well, but it kicks straight out to the side. Was a pain to deal with, felt so awkward to start, and the lever was short, and the stopper was the foot peg so you slammed your foot every time into the foot peg. Oh guess I should mention my dad got two of them from a couple people from the city that just did donuts with them all day. Both had broken up swing arms, one was a smoker, other didn't run but had good compression. Sold the smoker to a family member that didn't keep it very long, second one my dad got going and took it for about 3 trips out in the woods and the engine seized up full of oil. It seized up right at the crank to rod surface. Long story short, we just got rid of the machines, seemed like they were a pretty crappy machine. We kind of stuck with Honda ever since. I suspect the LT250R is a lot better since it's more or less a race machine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8nm5tvAhOo

Also I've looked at a few people's vids that have quads with the 600rr motorcycle engine. Pretty crazy stuff, but seems like they would be quite heavy too. I guess modern quads go up to what 800-1000cc now? They probably don't trail so well though, or are overly large because of the larger engines. I half wanted to buy a 600rr and put it into something for a while, never thought about a 3 wheeler, but that would be one crazy machine. My cousin had a go kart/sand rail type of machine with a Hayabusa 1300cc engine on it. It's something crazy like 160hp stock. The really crazy thing was how it was built, the front and rear suspension was just hacked off a 87-92 TRX250X, I'm shocked the swing arm can handle that much power. Also the clutch was the bike clutch mounted with a pedal bolted to it lol.

[Tacky]

Fun stuff on the Jury Duty. I worked with 3 co-workers that served. One Marines, one Navy, and one Army. There was only 6 people in my team lol. The job *was* very demanding, had to know a lot of systems, no proper training material, and more work to do than man hours to cover it. Long story short, we figured out a lot of the common issues with the tech devices and fixed/upgraded as needed and after 4 years, I was bored out of my mind with hardly any work to do. Of course during that time about 50% or so of the hardware was also replaced with new. Of course when I left that job I kind of missed it, but the 50% pay increase was nice, too bad the corp was ran like crap and ended up being an overly stressful job. Demanding is fine, but stressful sucks. That's that job I saved up some extra funds and started doing the harnesses, and once I quit I did harnesses and such full time and have ever since.

Anyway, guess I should watch the youtube video, not really sure now which way you was kicking it lol. Ahh I see, I've always kicked them straddling the seat (not sitting down though). I always thought the 3 wheelers were weird with their backwards kick starter vs the motorcycles. The only machine I've seen started like the video was a Honda Trail 70, it's kick starter is way to the rear if I remember right so it's the only way to do it fairly easily. If you want to see a really odd one, check this vid out. Probably can't see it so well, but it kicks straight out to the side. Was a pain to deal with, felt so awkward to start, and the lever was short, and the stopper was the foot peg so you slammed your foot every time into the foot peg. Oh guess I should mention my dad got two of them from a couple people from the city that just did donuts with them all day. Both had broken up swing arms, one was a smoker, other didn't run but had good compression. Sold the smoker to a family member that didn't keep it very long, second one my dad got going and took it for about 3 trips out in the woods and the engine seized up full of oil. It seized up right at the crank to rod surface. Long story short, we just got rid of the machines, seemed like they were a pretty crappy machine. We kind of stuck with Honda ever since. I suspect the LT250R is a lot better since it's more or less a race machine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8nm5tvAhOo

Also I've looked at a few people's vids that have quads with the 600rr motorcycle engine. Pretty crazy stuff, but seems like they would be quite heavy too. I guess modern quads go up to what 800-1000cc now? They probably don't trail so well though, or are overly large because of the larger engines. I half wanted to buy a 600rr and put it into something for a while, never thought about a 3 wheeler, but that would be one crazy machine. My cousin had a go kart/sand rail type of machine with a Hayabusa 1300cc engine on it. It's something crazy like 160hp stock. The really crazy thing was how it was built, the front and rear suspension was just hacked off a 87-92 TRX250X, I'm shocked the swing arm can handle that much power. Also the clutch was the bike clutch mounted with a pedal bolted to it lol.

Think you misunderstood me, I didn't mean literally sitiing down to crank it, but straddling the seat to do it. Sorry for the confusion.

Jury duty just got worse. Grand Jury for the next year. Ahhhh.... and the hits just keep on coming.

Anyways got the front sprocket cover put on. Looks good, seems kinda weird since it never had one. Gonna get used too it.

Other parts are on the way, just wait on the mail as usual.

[ps2fixer]

It's all good, would have helped if I watched the youtube vid lol. This pc I browse the web on doesn't have sound, my media computer has the sound (Cerwin Vega AT-15's if you know what that is =)). I've been though quit a bit of audio hardware, and those are some really nice speakers, just need a lot of juice to drive them correctly, the woofer is a bit weak on mine, but I'm only driving around 100w into each speaker, I think I read they are rated for like 600w (all RMS numbers, not any of this stupid peak watt crap that's common today).

For the jury duty, don't you get paid for it? Can't be that bad, just sucks it's mandatory for you to attend. Not sure how it is with grand jury.

[Tacky]

It's all good, would have helped if I watched the youtube vid lol. This pc I browse the web on doesn't have sound, my media computer has the sound (Cerwin Vega AT-15's if you know what that is =)). I've been though quit a bit of audio hardware, and those are some really nice speakers, just need a lot of juice to drive them correctly, the woofer is a bit weak on mine, but I'm only driving around 100w into each speaker, I think I read they are rated for like 600w (all RMS numbers, not any of this stupid peak watt crap that's common today).

For the jury duty, don't you get paid for it? Can't be that bad, just sucks it's mandatory for you to attend. Not sure how it is with grand jury.

Yes know a bit about speakers, have Memphis pr's in every vehicle I own, along with a set of jl audio 10w3's in one, Rockford fosgate 10 in my wifes ride, and 2 kicker comp 10's in my daily driver. Have 2 Rockford fosgate t-500 bdcp amps , a p300, and a punch 75 that's still kicking it. Know a bit about that stuff.

Grand Jury is like $20 a day. It lasts a year, usually 1 or 2 days a month. So I am locked in for 365 days. Blah...…

So I took the 200 out of the shop today. I noticed it was hard to get it cranked when its cold. 7 or 10 kicks, choke on and off. Got it cranked and warmed it up. Well after the warm up I decided to drive it around a bit. Man that thing is quicker than before. It really feels like a 2 stroke, the rpms go up, then about half throttle up it feels like a power band has kicked in. I was not expecting that. Everything went good, spent about 30 mins on it around the yard, since I have no place to open it up in the neighborhood. But it does feel good. I think I am gonna fine tune the carb some more since when I stopped the rpms were a bit higher on the idle. I idled it down and then it would level out, but after about 10 seconds it would drop lower, and would cut off. So I gotta explore that a bit. However it cranks easy when warm. So now I need my parts to come in. Here are a few photo's.

[ps2fixer]

How does that Cobra exhaust sound? I don't like DG, it's just a loud mega phone, the Cobra on my 250ES sounds good though. I really like the sound of a 350x with a supertrapp though.

I used to run a pair of rockford fosgate P2's (12in) for the house setup to get the sub woofer range in. I downgraded in watts, but upgraded to a 15in cerwin vega and it sounds a lot tighter and crisper bass now, but that might have been the amp I was using to drive the rockfords (professional Crown rack mount in bridged mode, I think it's spec was 350w in that config). The walls don't rattle/vibrate as much with the 15in on those bass test vids though lol. The 200w cerwin vega is just barely able to keep up with that AT-15's, I probably need the 250w version of it as a min so there's a little headroom and extra punch ready to go in the amp. I haven't been too much into car audio, just a basic 400w amp pushing a pair of 12in woofers, couple mids and a couple tweeters with a JVC head unit when I was a teen. The last headunit for the house I got for $25 just to give Yamaha a shot, and I'm quite impressed, very clear and "real" sounding. It's just a lower end unit, no pre-amp out or anything, so I can't use my Harmon Kardon Signature 2.1 series amp (5 channel 100w RMS @ 8ohm, 175W @ 4 ohm if I remember right). If the funds come flooding in, I have an amp I really want to try out with these speakers. a Yamaha MX1000U. I'll have to find a pre-amp for it though that I like the sound of, probably try another Yamaha since I really like this lower end unit's sound (was like $250 new in 2007). I'm not into rap or anything, and I like the full range of audio, not just bass so it's interesting to find the right equipment I like.

How's the 10in subs doing in the cars? I haven't bought modern subs, I'm sure they came a long ways since I was into that stuff as a teen. Back then it was min 12in to hear it good, 15in to feel it good. The Cerwin Vega Stroker 15in came out during that time, was wayyyyy too much for me to afford but the specs were crazy for the time.

Anyway, back to the 200x, hard starting is generally a sign of being a bit lean yet, however it's also a freshly built engine. Compression should go up and performance should increase as it breaks in. The first few tanks are the most critical, that's when there's the highest chance something will fail if it wasn't done just right. I've bought a couple Toyota 22R powered trucks with blown up engines.... not because of age/use, but because they were rebuilt and the rod came unbolted and the crank slammed it though the side of the block, I guess DIY builders don't check torque specs or something.

Kind of funny, the only thing that looks out of place on the 200x now is the tank, rest looks about like new =D. Not much can be done about the tank, from my understanding the brown color is from the fuel in it and it's all the way though the plastic. Seems like someone could take the tank mold, and make a vacuum form mold to match the tank well that could be attached to the tank to hide the under color. Basically like the gas tank covers for the early trx models. The tanks were just black or w\e color, paint not shiny or anything, and they slapped a plastic cover over it. Heck even my 350x warrior is that way, black plastic tank with the body plastic over it.

Also that power band feeling is probably from the cam, if I remember right you went with an aftermarket one. Stock ones are designed for a low/wide range power band, aftermarket targets higher rpm power bands. Both have their pro's and con's. Personally I stick with the OEM profile, but if you're doing MX, Racing, etc then the aftermarket is a good pick. I guess it comes down to what rpm range you're in the most.

[Tacky]

How does that Cobra exhaust sound? I don't like DG, it's just a loud mega phone, the Cobra on my 250ES sounds good though. I really like the sound of a 350x with a supertrapp though.

I used to run a pair of rockford fosgate P2's (12in) for the house setup to get the sub woofer range in. I downgraded in watts, but upgraded to a 15in cerwin vega and it sounds a lot tighter and crisper bass now, but that might have been the amp I was using to drive the rockfords (professional Crown rack mount in bridged mode, I think it's spec was 350w in that config). The walls don't rattle/vibrate as much with the 15in on those bass test vids though lol. The 200w cerwin vega is just barely able to keep up with that AT-15's, I probably need the 250w version of it as a min so there's a little headroom and extra punch ready to go in the amp. I haven't been too much into car audio, just a basic 400w amp pushing a pair of 12in woofers, couple mids and a couple tweeters with a JVC head unit when I was a teen. The last headunit for the house I got for $25 just to give Yamaha a shot, and I'm quite impressed, very clear and "real" sounding. It's just a lower end unit, no pre-amp out or anything, so I can't use my Harmon Kardon Signature 2.1 series amp (5 channel 100w RMS @ 8ohm, 175W @ 4 ohm if I remember right). If the funds come flooding in, I have an amp I really want to try out with these speakers. a Yamaha MX1000U. I'll have to find a pre-amp for it though that I like the sound of, probably try another Yamaha since I really like this lower end unit's sound (was like $250 new in 2007). I'm not into rap or anything, and I like the full range of audio, not just bass so it's interesting to find the right equipment I like.

How's the 10in subs doing in the cars? I haven't bought modern subs, I'm sure they came a long ways since I was into that stuff as a teen. Back then it was min 12in to hear it good, 15in to feel it good. The Cerwin Vega Stroker 15in came out during that time, was wayyyyy too much for me to afford but the specs were crazy for the time.

Anyway, back to the 200x, hard starting is generally a sign of being a bit lean yet, however it's also a freshly built engine. Compression should go up and performance should increase as it breaks in. The first few tanks are the most critical, that's when there's the highest chance something will fail if it wasn't done just right. I've bought a couple Toyota 22R powered trucks with blown up engines.... not because of age/use, but because they were rebuilt and the rod came unbolted and the crank slammed it though the side of the block, I guess DIY builders don't check torque specs or something.

Kind of funny, the only thing that looks out of place on the 200x now is the tank, rest looks about like new =D. Not much can be done about the tank, from my understanding the brown color is from the fuel in it and it's all the way though the plastic. Seems like someone could take the tank mold, and make a vacuum form mold to match the tank well that could be attached to the tank to hide the under color. Basically like the gas tank covers for the early trx models. The tanks were just black or w\e color, paint not shiny or anything, and they slapped a plastic cover over it. Heck even my 350x warrior is that way, black plastic tank with the body plastic over it.

Also that power band feeling is probably from the cam, if I remember right you went with an aftermarket one. Stock ones are designed for a low/wide range power band, aftermarket targets higher rpm power bands. Both have their pro's and con's. Personally I stick with the OEM profile, but if you're doing MX, Racing, etc then the aftermarket is a good pick. I guess it comes down to what rpm range you're in the most.

I dunno, the cobra is louder than my polaris 500 with the DG xcellerator on it. Its louder than my foreman with the hmf on it too. I might be able to change that. Spoke with a rep from hmf, gave them the specs and asked if the 250sx silencer will fit. They told me they would look and see for me. The cobra does produce a megaphone tone, would be better with a 45 degree end cap downward. Will see if hmf comes through. I would try a supertrap if I could find one.

You know I was thinking it was lean. Heck it has a 42 pilot now. I did turn the fuel screw out another turn and no real change. I may try the next size pilot up to see if it needs it. So tell me, I should hear the engine drop in rpms when the fuel screw is out too much or too rich. I have not seen that in my testing. Im beginning to wonder if I need a bigger carb to feed the beast or atleast a bigger pilot.. The 130 main is working fine up top, and middle setting on the needle seems to be correct. Just not enough fuel on the bottom. I do have a 26 or 28mm flatside mukuni that came with it, but it will take some work to get it servicable. It also makes me wonder if the right keihin carb on it. Is it possible that it has a 22mm instead of a 24mm?

I did some checking, next size up pilot is the #45. I have a few in my jet container. I may take out the #42 and try the #45 and see what happens. I have up to a #50 I believe. Thoughts?



Yes it has a web cam, shaft 214 profile, its aggressive. It hits hard through the mid and top as it was advertised to do. Its surprising, matched with that 12 to 1 wiesco 66mm.

Yes the tank is rough, although its clean inside. I did order an original oem metal one from a guy thats in good shape. Its not rusted inside either. Maybe that will give it a better look. Got a new valve coming for it too. The 200x came with a metal tank, so my tank has to be an aftermarket? But everything else looks new. I got the oem tail light mounted, and working. I believe its gonna get a set of new kendas on the back probably 20x11-9 xcr's.

Man the 2 kickers in the ported box in my accord slam. I have the rockford t500-1 running at 2ohms, thats 500 watts rms or 250 to each 10 rms. :naughty: have a 10 farad capacitor, fed by 0 gauge rockford wire, and 200 amp fuse. I had the original plan to run 2 15's in the trunk why I mounted the 2 t 500's in there years back maybe 2010. But I am only running 1 and that's more than enough for the 2 kicker comp 10's. Had to put roadkill aka dynamat around the trunk.
I don't ride around beating much, but every once in a while, I make an exception in particular when some young punk pulls up next to me with the radio turned up.

Let me see if I have a pic. That what is in my hondas trunk twin rockfords. I put the capacitor on the bottom between the 2.

Here is the amps I have, did the wiring myself.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_5755001CP/Rockford-Fosgate-T500-1bdCP.html?awkw=75622018585&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=47439540625&awdv=t&awug=1021172&gclid=Cj0KCQiA1NbhBRCBARIsAKOTmUvYCplyJyaQt9ZWyMaE YNlWWjxTaW2QlaWAbm3s0zAHEgvBeb0-NvEaAhf1EALw_wcB


My sierra has a hidden box under the rear seat with the 2 JL 10's running 300x1 p300 rockford on them too. Fed by streetwires 4 gauge. Bout 150 to each 10.

Man I was into the sound stuff when I was in my teens too. Remember when orion, soundstream, hifonics, rockford, kenwood cerwin vega and alpine were the highly regarded. Had a friend with (4) 15's pushed by a hifonics colossus, biggest am I have ever seen. Remember the thor, zeus and others. Rockford it was the punch 40, 60, 75, and 100. Orion had the cool hcca red amps. I do remember friends running diamonds, JBL, , and stillwater kickers. Man I had forgotten about all that, brings back memories so wonder were aren't deaf.

So give me your thoughts on my fuel delivery.

[ps2fixer]

It's a bit of apples to oranges to compare 2 ohm vs 4ohm RMS. Low ohms gives bigger numbers, but it takes more power to control the speaker well from my understanding. I always grew up where basically all speakers were 4 ohm, super high end speakers seem to be 6-8 ohms.

Car audio is a bit different than house. My car amp was 400w @ 4ohm, I don't think it had a 2ohm spec. Still have the amp and head unit, probably should throw it in my Lexus some time lol. The 1990 Lexus sounds pretty good, just doesn't get loud and the bass in the door speakers have that bass thump that I don't like from the speakers being too small. The rear sub is 8in if I remember right, only 25w and 2ohm though lol The higher end audio for the same car was 80w @ 6ohm, nothing too impressive, but for stock and being a 1990 car, that was pretty unique for the time. Sadly the amp isn't interchangeable between the two with out major rewiring. The lower end one just taps into a rear speaker signal, the other has all signals go to the external amp which also runs the sub.

I looked at the listing for the amp, and noticed there's no distortion spec. Probably not really a critical spec for car audio, you won't get super amazing sound in a car vs a house or open area. The crown amp i was using was 0.1%, the harmon kardon is 0.003% if I recall correctly

Anyway, the comments on the Cobra is interesting, mine is a super old one, it's all steel and black. It sounds well balanced and has a pretty deep tone to it. The DG on my 350x has a pretty deep tone too, but it doesn't seem the exhaust is tuned to the engine as well. Hard to explain it. Kind of like the Jeep Grand Cherokee I had for a parts vehicle that ran, the last like 2 foot of the exhaust wasn't clamped on, with it on it sounded well balanced and not half bad for stock, but when it separated, it sounded like complete garbage, it even had a bit of backfire going on. Push it back together, and sounds great again. Exhaust length has a lot to do with how it sounds and some of the characteristics of the engine, just like a 2 stroke, just to a lesser extent on a 4 stroke.

On the carb tuning, the only thing I can remember about jetting was the pilot jet is the low into the mid range area, so blipping the throttle is kind of how you read if it's right or not. I've read some guides where they say to turn in the adjuster screw till it dies, then back it out till it stumbles, and set it in the middle, but never had one that did the two extremes. Maybe most/all of my machines are too small of pilot too lol.

Anyway, I added a couple pics of my audio setup for the speakers, amp wise it's nothing special atm. The black box is the 15in sub, it's a bottom fire. Unit on top is the Denon AVR-4802 I was running, wasn't super into the pre-amp output sound though, sounded overly processed or something, just wasn't right. It has an internal amp too, but one channel is dead, haven't diag'ed the problem though. Top left corner of the pic you can see one of the Rockford P2's. Don't mind the mess, too much junk in too little of an area lol. I pulled the cover off the main speaker so you can see it. Speaker is too close to the wall (rear ported), the woofer can't work like it should, so I had to cut back on the highs on the cross overs. Mids were slightly weak on this speaker vs the DX9 with the larger single mid. The AT-15's are 90lbs each lol. The speakers are not made any more, but here's some reviews on them, first one seems to be the most technical, they are known for the gluing to come apart if moved a lot or pushed hard, not a hard fix though. They put out a great bass guitar sound, it's a little weak on super low bass, but that's what the sub woofer is for. When I say a little weak, I just mean volume, not weak like poor sounding. It seems to be a great match for music and movies.

http://www.audioreview.com/product/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/cerwin-vega/at-15.html

[jb2wheels]

This sums up pilot jet: https://www.howtomotorcyclerepair.com/how-to-size-your-pilot-jet-pilot-screw-explained/

My WR450 conversion came stock with a 45 pilot. With a pipe, big filter and open airbox I ended up with a 62. Sounds nuts on paper but it works. Starts easy even at 30F. No decel popping.
The main went from 165 stock to 180,

Cut and paste bullet points here... (generally, 4 strokes have a "fuel screw")
What are some indications of a lean pilot jet and/or screw setting?

If your air screw is in further than 1 turn, you need a richer pilot.
If your fuel screw is out further than 3 turns, you need a richer plot.
Off idle hesitation or bog.
Revving the engine in neutral will result in hanging RPM’s, or RPM’s will slowly drop back to idle RPM.

What are some indications of a rich pilot jet and/or screw setting?

If your air screw is out further than 3 turns, you need a leaner pilot.
If your fuel screw is in further than 1 turn, you need a leaner pilot.
Off idle heavy feel or sputter.
Revving the engine in neutral will result in RPM dip below idle RPM, RPM’s will drop quickly.
Turning the fuel screw all the way in will not stall the engine.

[Tacky]

My WR450 conversion came stock with a 45 pilot. With a pipe, big filter and open airbox I ended up with a 62. Sounds nuts on paper but it works. Starts easy even at 30F. No decel popping.
The main went from 165 stock to 180,

Cut and paste bullet points here... (generally, 4 strokes have a "fuel screw")
What are some indications of a lean pilot jet and/or screw setting?

If your air screw is in further than 1 turn, you need a richer pilot.
If your fuel screw is out further than 3 turns, you need a richer plot.
Off idle hesitation or bog.
Revving the engine in neutral will result in hanging RPM’s, or RPM’s will slowly drop back to idle RPM.

What are some indications of a rich pilot jet and/or screw setting?

If your air screw is out further than 3 turns, you need a leaner pilot.
If your fuel screw is in further than 1 turn, you need a leaner pilot.
Off idle heavy feel or sputter.
Revving the engine in neutral will result in RPM dip below idle RPM, RPM’s will drop quickly.
Turning the fuel screw all the way in will not stall the engine.

Thanks for the info. Thats what I needed. I was just curious about the extremely large change for the pilot, seemed crazy. But the symptoms I have are in these listings, these are what I am seeing.


Revving the engine in neutral will result in hanging RPM’s, or RPM’s will slowly drop back to idle RPM.

If your fuel screw is out further than 3 turns, you need a richer plot.

Gonna investigate these today.

[Tacky]

Nice, never did much with home stuff, have a polk audio sound bar and subwoofer in my house on my 65, although with me in the shop alot with my toys, the wife enjoys the tv and sound way more than I do. In the shop I have 4 speakers, one in each corner 6 1/2, mid and tweeter, hooked to a 6 disc changer. I turn it on, and get to wrenching. :w00t:

[jb2wheels]

Just so I can participate...

I've dabbled in car audio but nothing serious.

When I adopted my dad's 67 Chevelle wagon roughly 15 years ago, I found out the amp he put in it in the early 90s was an old school HiFonics 4ch - either a Europa or Jupiter VII (it's been a few years since I even looked at it). That thing is still bada$$. He just bought what the guy recommended when he added a Sony CD player that was pre-amp only. He ran it into 4 Pioneer 6.5" 2-ways. It's been through 3 head units now and the 3rd is acting up. I also re-wired it with better power wires and running it 3ch (1&2 into the doors, 3&4 bridged into an ancient 8" Bazooka tube). Still running the ancient Pioneers in the doors (back doors off deck power). Amazed the speakers are still good.

This amp spoiled me. I've tried a handful of newer amps and been disappointed. The only one I liked (in my cheap price range) was the Power Acoustik BAMF-1600/4 I put in my Civic wagon. It stayed in the car when I sold it.

I also have a NIB Viper 1100.5 amp in the garage I bought for a car I wrecked before I got the amp into it.

[ps2fixer]

My house is my work shop, so it's my go to for listening to music. Have the whole internet worth of entertainment at my finger tips =). Wish I had a garage to work in, but that will happen some day down the road.

I've never heard a surround sound system I liked, give me 4 way any day or 4 way + a sub is great too if the 4 ways can't do the sub woofer range. My dad's system was a 4 way, his rear two speakers have the foam failing so he disabled them for now. The front speakers are 8ft tall and he built them right into the walls. Woofer + sub + 2x mids + 2x tweeters. He just needs a choke and maybe a dedicated amp channel for the sub since it gets the full woofer frequency.

My tv is some old 62in, was a garbage picked one that I repaired (recap on power supply). It's not perfect but works, no base so it's hung on the wall. I was running a 32in LCD screen intended for a computer which has a better picture (contract ratio), but it's a bit too small to read text on youtube and such while sitting down. The 62 is just big enough to read the text.

I'm probably spoiled a bit on audio quality, I grew up most of my life with a $2500 amp/stereo setup + those home built speakers. The amp competes with the low part of the high end units that typically were around $5k or so. These are 1990ish prices, no clue what today prices would be, probably similar or a little less because of newer tech. I love the old raw power amps though (huge transformer, 50lb amp etc).

Tiny pic, but here's the inside of the amp, its basically all transformer, caps, and heat sink (passively cooled no fans).

https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171628

Anyway, if you're happy with the audio quality you have, stick with what you have, no point in throwing down $5k on a system if you don't need/want it. I've been building my system up since I was like 12 and getting everything cheap. Most expensive thing was the amp $400 used. Main two speakers + another stereo was $300 and is a steal, they go for $600 or so for just the speakers now. Sub was $200 used, should have spent the $250 on the higher wattage one, but it suits my needs until I start pushing my little $20 100w stereo lol. My eye's are on that Yamaha amp which runs $1000 used to properly drive the mains, and I have to research a good pre-amp probably in the $500ish range. I have a hard time buying new electronics, too many things going to cheap china crap. Around mid 1990's and older didn't have the major capacitor problems that we see today.

Anyway, to get back on topic, that write up for lean vs rich is worded well, most of it I knew, but couldn't think on how to translate it into words. Pretty interesting so many machines go to such larger pilots. I wonder what the elevation is like for those installs? I'm around 650-700ft above sea level.

EDIT:

I took too long to reply lol, another reply got in :D.

I think HiFonics was known as a higher end brand. Looking at the specs in a owner's manual thing I found on them, looks like into 4 ohm speakers, the distortion (THD) is 0.02%, 2 ohms and lower it's 0.1% and up. Looks like it's 35W per channel RMS into 4 ohm. It says Mono bridged is 120w per channel into 4 ohm, seems like the amp was designed to be basically a 2 channel bridged unit for max power output. It has a great low end frequency response, great distortion rating, and enough power for a car system to get pretty loud and still sound great. Not everything is about pure wattage, I'm sure it creates great sounding music for within the limits of being in a vehicle.

This is the kind of specs I like to see, gives the details of real quality vs wattage etc. Most cheaper amps I've seen are atleast 0.1% THD, the Crown amp I was using to push my subs was rated 0.1% but I was going for the raw power anyway. I can't find the THD spec for the internal amp in my 15in sub box. It sounds good till I start really pushing it, then it gets the subwoofer boom noise that I don't like.

https://i.gyazo.com/1638de42874c47cac7555706ef5dc41e.png

[Tacky]

Just so I can participate...

I've dabbled in car audio but nothing serious.

When I adopted my dad's 67 Chevelle wagon roughly 15 years ago, I found out the amp he put in it in the early 90s was an old school HiFonics 4ch - either a Europa or Jupiter VII (it's been a few years since I even looked at it). That thing is still bada$$. He just bought what the guy recommended when he added a Sony CD player that was pre-amp only. He ran it into 4 Pioneer 6.5" 2-ways. It's been through 3 head units now and the 3rd is acting up. I also re-wired it with better power wires and running it 3ch (1&2 into the doors, 3&4 bridged into an ancient 8" Bazooka tube). Still running the ancient Pioneers in the doors (back doors off deck power). Amazed the speakers are still good.

This amp spoiled me. I've tried a handful of newer amps and been disappointed. The only one I liked (in my cheap price range) was the Power Acoustik BAMF-1600/4 I put in my Civic wagon. It stayed in the car when I sold it.

I also have a NIB Viper 1100.5 amp in the garage I bought for a car I wrecked before I got the amp into it.

67 chevelle, very nice ride. Have a friend that has a 67 chevelle, and 67 covertible rs camaro. The chevelle is black on black, 396 a beautiful machine. One of my favs.

isn't it funny we all share similiar interests, cars, trikes, stereo's. Small world.

[Tacky]

On the way out to the shop, pull the carb, and put in the 45 pilot. See what happens.

[ps2fixer]

GL on the pilot upgrade. I'm just the odd duck here because I'm into computers and electronics too, but I'm pretty young as well lol.

No real experience with the Chevelle's, but in the 90's the family car was a 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass with a 350 rocket, it was rusty, dinged up door, no key needed to start kind of car lol. My dad was a huge oldsmobile fan, he put the 350 and 455's in a lot of vehicles, even converted a diesel 350 into a gas 350 which wouldn't turn off after it came up to temp. He still has some engines, transmissions, and a bunch of misc parts from oldsmobiles from that era. He even has some legit 442 parts from a Hurst olds 442. I remember them having monster torque, but not much else (he owned a lot of them for parts etc).

[Tacky]

So had a weird thing happen. Swapped the 42 for the 45 and it fired up. For maybe the first 2 minutes When I gave it the throttle I could see the extra fuel smoke coming from the exhaust when I revved it. It was at the lower throttle disappears up high. After it warmed up it disappeared around 5 minutes. I played with the setting after I got it to idle and would still get the delay in rpm's coming down. A short one. However the idle adjustment screw on the right side of the carb is very sensitive. It seems that its idling high, then a slight turn counter clockwise and the rpms go down, but almost to the point the engine dies, then it does. So I am still investigating. Just wonder why it smoked for the first minute or so when revved. It was fuel smoke, not oil. I think I may have to go up again. When turning the fuel screw out I started at 1.5 turns base setting. I could go past 3 again, so I guess I am going to a 48 next, then if that doesn't do it, the 50 or 52.

[Tacky]

Soi haven't messed with the carb today. Had too much going on. But I did receive some new parts. I got an oem metal gas tank that came off a 1984 model 200x, outside is in good condition, paint scuffs but no dents, and the inside looks brand new, no rust, and looks as if it never had gas in it. So what I am gonna do is I have a local business that powder coats, so I am gonna getbthem to sand blast it, then powder coat it gloss white, which should be better against fuels, and wear. Should give it the original looks too. I already have the 1985 200x red white and blue tank stickers for it. So then everything will look new. I also got in a reproduction decal for the rear fender that goes across the tail with 200x in the center, as the originals did. It looks good up there. Tomorrow the new gas valve and handlebar grips should be here. I plan to replace the original handlebars with renthals as well. I am also thinking of buying a set of maier larger shrouds for the tank, to match the rest of the plastic.

So thats where I am so far.

[Tacky]

Still testing the carb with pilots. The 45 seems to be about the same as the 42, still getting that pause in reduction of rpms when letting off the throttle. Have not tried the 48 or 50. But I really am thinking that I need to upgrade to the mikuni vm28 round or flatside carb. Then put a 130 main and 40 pilot and see where I am. I have an adapter that will bolt up to the head that was used on the original vm28 it had on it years ago. However don't really know the best way to keep using the oem air hose with out cutting it. Gonna explore and hopefully come up with a solution.

[Tacky]

Well,

Gas tank is now at the powder coaters to get refinished in gloss white. Ran $150 for it to be blasted down, primered and powder coated, 2 week wait, but it should look good when I get it back. Then the original 1985 red white and blue tank decals along with the new warning decal, and new gas valve, should be better than new. I will post a picture when I get it back.

[Tacky]

Well it got some new shoes. Kenda kutters 20x11-9 on a spare set of DID aluminums I had. Brake line should be here today. And the powder coaters called can pick up the gas tank this week.