Honda ATC250ES weird quirk or are they all like this?

[areffernz]

Just noticed yesterday that if going down a long steep hill using engine braking if you turn the key off then back on again motor does not restart. You have to go back to neutral and get neutral light before it will restart? Is this an inbuilt safety feature? Never struck it on any bike before. What I mean is that engine braking is still turning the motor over but its almost like the CDI kills the spark until you stop and go back to neutral.

[ps2fixer]

Yea my 250es machines were like that too. The CDI has a detection on the neutral safety switch, so it only allows the engine to start when in neutral.

[areffernz]

Thanks for the info, so an ATC250ES cannot be push or tow started then, unless you bypass / jump the neutral feed to CDI.

[ps2fixer]

Yep that's true. I don't really like putting this kind of info public because of people loving to hack up wiring and such and not think about what other effects it could have, but it's easy to bypass if you don't mind the wire cutting and splice work. Near the CDI, cut the Green and Green/Red wires, on the CDI side, run them together, and connect back up to the green wire from the harness. The CDI will always think the machine is in neutral. The reason the green/red wire is left unhooked on the harness side is so the neutral light will function correctly. I could also make a small adapter for the CDI plugs that could perform this mod with out cutting up wiring, not sure how bad the shipping would be to NZ though. I wonder if this would be a desirable mod, might have to make up an adapter or two to test the market.

I've never had to tow start a Honda 3 wheeler, only an 87 TRX250X because something electrical kept acting up. It was before I went nuts on service manuals and specs though so I wasn't sure what to check out on his machine. I've had 6-7 250ES machines, and all run. 5 where in a lot together, the 6th was the parts machine, and the 7th has shifting problems and is a smoker (was beat to dead mud bogging). The smoker is hard starting, probably because of the lower compression, and one from the lot of 5 has a small carb/intake issue where the low end seems to be a bit lean.

The 250SX has the same safety system. The 200ES has a safety system based on the reverse safety switch, and the electric start doesn't work when not in neutral. Seems like most of the machines with a battery has a safety system for starting.

[areffernz]

Ha all interesting info thanks. As far as electrical / wiring side of bikes go I am up to speed there, have an electrical background and have been mucking with bikes for 40+ years.

[ps2fixer]

Cool stuff, we could use another person good with electrical to either back me up, or call me out on mistakes lol.

[Petrolburner]

Good to know. That means it won't start with the kick starter either unless it's in neutral? I don't think my 84 is like that.

[fabiodriven]

That is correct. Neutral only for starting.

[ps2fixer]

the 84 200es is a completely different machine, nearly nothing is the same with the 250es. The 200es has a safety circuit on the reverse safety switch that operates the same way as the 250es neutral detection, but in reverse (no pun intended lol). You can manually start a 200es in any forward gear though. The 200E could also start in reverse manually. The 200es has a inhibitor switch to stop the electric start from working in any gear except neutral. It's a double safety system though because the starter solenoid ground trigger wire runs though the starter button AND the neutral safety switch, so the inhibitor relay seems pointless and just adds a failure spot.

This is all off memory, but pretty sure I didn't mess anything up in the details.

Also fun example, I bought a "non-running" 85 250sx for pretty cheap. The reason it didn't run.... it was in first gear lol. Carb leaked and the machine looked like a 250es big red, but the engine was very sound.