1987 250ES for free!

[Homeless Dave]

I scored a 1987 big red today! It was free and will need a lot of love. Also got a 200e parts trike. Will post pics to morrow. Will go great with my friends 87 big red.

[deejaycee_2000]

Ahhh FREE, my favourite price! Looking forward to see the pics!

[Homeless Dave]

258739258740258741258742258743258744


Well, here are the free trikes. The one with no forks is an 85 big red, hopefully it's wiring harness will let the 87 live again.

[deejaycee_2000]

Wow they need alot of love! That should be a nice project! If you need artwork for the decals I have the artwork for a 85 250ES and the 83 200E

[ps2fixer]

Looks like they both have been through quite a bit, but those engines look really clean, no oil leaks and such. My 84 200ES's whole engine is black from the leaking valve cover lol.

Anyway, I'd check the engines out and get them running before dumping big money into them, unless you don't mind possible rebuild costs or engine replacement costs. Get the heart alive and atleast you can ride an ugly machine till you can get the rest of the parts to make it pretty =).

If you need any electrical help, post here. I'm pretty in tune with the 200E and 250ES. For electrical testing, it's super helpful if you have a multi meter.

I can't see for sure, but the 200E looks to be missing the key, the 250es I think I see it but not sure, either case you can unplug the black/white and green wires from the ignition switch (or all 4 wires) and the machine will run, but you won't have electric start or any lights, including dash lights. On the 200E, you can hook the Red and Yellow/Red wire together to get lights. The 250 is not as easy due to the connectors used, but Red to Black (not black/white) will give that machine lights. Also, make 100% sure the 250 is in neutral when you try to start it, else it won't have any spark, I scored one cheap because of that "issue".

When you get them running, how much do you plan on fixing them up? Like just rider quality, or like basic restored to be pretty, or fully big $$$ OEM restore? I'm pretty sure I have an ok condition front fender, might have more parts. Also so you're aware, I make/mod a lot of electrical parts too, like if the harness is otherwise good, but has a cut off connector, I can get you a pig tail to repair it for nearly any connector on that machine and have it the correct OEM colors.

Not sure how well you know the 250es, but under the seat is normally two big knobs you can unscrew and the rear rack/fenders will tip back like a dump truck. Makes getting to some electrical parts etc a bit easier. The headlight is removable too, even though you don't exactly have one yet.

Anyway, you have a bit of a long road ahead of you to get those machines up to par, but to me they look like a solid start if the engines are healthy. Typical saying though, they were sitting for some reason, hopefully it's not engine related and just the person was scared of 3 wheelers or something.

[Homeless Dave]

The 200e is just a parts bike, good for other 200e and both 200s. I know my way around the 250 pretty well, my buddy has 3, and 85 and a 87, and unknown year parts trike. The CDI plug is missing, but the 85 with no forks has the round plug stlye, will it be possible to put that cdi plug in the 87? Other than that the wiring is complete. Engine is free and has compression and the carb is not siezed. If it can get a cdi, it might fire up! Once it runs, I will put different tires on it and maybe a front fender and ride it, I am only 17 and have very little money because I'm saving for college.

[ps2fixer]

Sadly, the round CDI plug is one of the ones I can't get, since it's an 87 I can make the 4+2 style.

As for a CDI, maybe you can borrow you'r friend's 87 CDI to hear your machine run and such. A used CDI is about as much as a new aftermarket one. Mike has aftermarket CDI's made based on the OEM ignition curve with a couple extra features (easy start and such). The 250ES has a safety system, so normally you'd need the adapter which if I recall correctly switches the power and kill switch wires, and leaves out the gray reverse safety switch wire. I can validate with the template I have here (I make the adapters for him), and could make a pig tail you just match up the colors on, you'd just have the safety wire left over that you'd have to tape up to keep it from interfering with the rest of the machine's electrical. Last I checked the CDI's are $70, Adapter is $25, and the pig tails I make are $16. The other option is you could just buy the adapter from Mike and cut the one connector off to turn it into a pig tail. If I'm thinking right it should be the right colors to match up as well since the wire colors match the CDI pin out functions.

Another option not to make this confusing is to get all 3 and fix your harness to OEM spec, and use the adapter + Mike's CDI and at any time you could disconnect the adapter and use an OEM CDI, like if you wanted to compare Mike's vs Stock.

http://mikesatvfix.com/

Here's the pig tail that would effectively convert your harness to directly plug into Mike's CDI. Let me know which route you want to go with it, and I can make the colors/wires match for what you'd have to hook up to keep it a simplier job. The pig tail is the wrong pin out for the stock 250ES CDI, but I can make them too.

http://shop.3wheelerworld.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=431&search=pt111

Also, I see the 87 250es, the 200E (83 has a second fuse under the seat, 82 doesn't), and the last machine I didn't notice, but looks like that's an 85 based on the drum/swing arm setup. If you want to validate the year of the machine, get the engine serial number and check if it matches up to any of these (it should). I put just the starting, the last numbers are like the run number and such, like machine 5000th made (doesn't always start from 0 though). You can double check your 87 as well to make sure the data is accurate =).

85 - TE04E-5*
86 - TE04E-6*
87 - TE04E-81*

Personally, I'd suggest keeping the 87 with the 4+2 style CDI connector, the round one was effectively only used on 84 and 85 machines, and the 4+2 style is still used today on some models, Chinese machines, etc.

Been there done that with the college thing. I went full circle, first job I got right out of college which was effectively my "dream job", after 5 years switched to a 50% higher paying job that I thought would be more interesting, which panned out to be a poor company to work for, so quit after a year and went full time self employed. I'm making less, but I love what I do, and the whole "be your own boss" thing is super nice. Every customer is effectively your boss though.

Anyway, that parts machine is likely a gold mine of parts to sell, just don't sell something you or your friend needs lol. Worst case you could always buy another one. The rear diff in good shape runs $200+ and is pretty easy to package/ship (medium flat rate is probably the cheapest shipping method). The carb would pull in ok money too, wild guess would be around $100 as long as it's not trashed, even if it needs cleaning/rebuild. The muffler looks to be in nice shape too. I'd just about pay for everything to get the muffler, but I'm personally pretty tight on funds too, just paid something like $1200 to restock supplies for my business, and I'm seeing more stuff I'm getting low on.

Hopefully you find this post useful, I can help with the pin outs and such if you figure out another solution for your CDI situation.

Oh also, those tires behind the 87 250es are stock tires from at least the 85 model. If they hold air, they are probably worth quite a bit to the right person/collector. I ran my machines with the stock tires that were on them till they fell apart from the dry rot, so I missed out on getting anything out of mine.

Also, why is the 200E a parts machine, it looks nearly as complete as the 87 250es, just needs some rear tires, seat, fix up the fenders to be able to ride, and maybe a thumb throttle? Maybe there's more missing than I can see. It looks to have the cleanest engine though, so if you don't have another 200 series machine, I'd say get the engine running and sell it if you're not fixing it. I'm sure you'd get plenty of interest on craigslist or facebook, just don't sell it as unknown shape, you won't get squat for it. Hopefully no water in the oil, but so far I haven't found a Honda with that issue yet. I'm pretty sure between the two parts machines, you could get something like $1000 selling the right parts and such. Heck the engines probably could go close to that together if they are known running/good engines. To compare, below are a couple engines, the one is from an 86 250ES "parts machine" that was used to fix 4-5 other machines before I got it, and it must have been a while back because the engine is in super awesome shape, just dusty from sitting. I wouldn't dare to sell it under $500, but it's kind of my backup engine too so not really trying to get it sold. The other machine is my go to 85 250es rider, not pretty, I mud it etc, and it's always ready to go. I've been beating on it for like 10 years now. The head bolts and such were rusty when I got it (can't really see in the photo) which is a sight it sat out in the weather unlike your machines. I have nicer looking machines, but never ride them to keep them nice.

Either case, good luck with the fix up. I pretty much except all 3 engines to run with maybe minor work (new plug, clean carb, maybe jet kit for the carb, etc).

[Homeless Dave]

Well, the 200e has no pulse generator and I'm taking the carb and pull start from it, you are right it is a gold mine but has a good chassis. If you are close I'll consider giving you the engine, I live in eastern South Dakota. The 85 with no front is a bad motor, no dipstick and has been outside for 10 years .If your wondering I'm going to college for auto body.

[ps2fixer]

I'm over in Michigan, bit too far for a 3 wheeler lol.

Cool stuff being a body man, I've wanted to mess around with auto body work on my personal vehicles, but the salt here rusts them out so fast, it's almost pointless. My college was for CST/PC Systems Support and Technology, basically it says I know a little bit of everything about computers (hardware, software, programming, support/helpdesk, security etc).

Since the 250es sounds like it's basically just parts, I'd say to find something to plug the oil dip stick so it's not getting destroyed more. The stator, case covers, cylinder/head etc should be pretty big money items for the engine. Depending how much water was in it, the primary and secondary clutches should go for a bit. Shifter shaft, etc. Really, if you have the time to wait, basically every part of these 3 wheelers will sell, even random bolts etc. I parted out a 76 ATC90 and all I have left is a few misc parts and the rear fender/seat and it was a complete running/riding machine, just no one would give me $500 for it, so I got more than that parting it out.

[Homeless Dave]

Well, my friend owns another big red, and I'm gonna see if it's an 86 or 87 so I can buy the wire harness.

[Homeless Dave]

I went and looked at the parts trike, it was an 87! I know these are really rare. Took the cdi and plug, so no need to do much, just match wire colors
258780

[Homeless Dave]

Update-it runs! Installed the cdi plug and cdi, pulled of varb, sprayed in ether. It sound good, but I think the starter might be engaged (I used kick start).

[ATCKevin]

Nice score! Free is the best


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ps2fixer]

Cool stuff, typical Honda lol.

Anyway, what do you mean by the starter might be engaged? I'd assume something to do with the electric start? The starter motor is gear to gear, and there's a 1 way bearing that catches when it runs, so it shouldn't effect the engine at all when running.

There's also a one way bearing for the kick starter and for coating (engine braking), when it wears out, the kick starter slips and when you turn the engine off it typically has a whirl noise then clunks to a stop. Pretty easy job to fix, just have to get the bearing which I'm pretty sure is a bit pricey.

How's the electrical working? All lights functioning and electric start? Headlight & tail lights run off the same power, so if any bulbs are in it, that should be good enough of a test and the neutral/reverse lights run off the same power that the electric start functions from, and the neutral switch grounds for the neutral light and the starter solenoid.

When you said your friend had a big red, I thought you meant a ride-able machine xD. Maybe after getting your 87 going, you can take your 85 and your friend's 87 and try to make another one that runs =).

[Homeless Dave]

He does have a ridable 85, it's really clean, the one i went and looked at is a parts machine, he has a clapped out but running 87 too.. When I kick the kick start it feels like a lot of drag, as if the starter is out. Have not tried electric start and it has no headlight or taillights. Neutral light does not work. I will slowly get all that fixed, but I want it mechanically sound.

[Homeless Dave]

To make it clear, my friend owns 3 big reds. 85, 87, and a 87 parts bike. I own 2, 87 and 85 parts bike someone attempted to turn into a 4 wheeler.

[ps2fixer]

Hmm that's a bit strange. Does it make any noises when kicking, or running? Does it smoke at all?

The starter is easy to pull for the most part, just the two bolts and it slides up and out with an O-ring to seal it. Reinstalling might be a little tricky to get the teeth lined up, but worse case you can always take the gears cover off, the littler oval shaped cover on the left side.

The really nice 250es I posted the pic of had an issue with the electric start, and it didn't shift right when I got it. Shifting problem was just assembled wrong and things were bound up because it wasn't lined up when bolted together by the last owner. The starter issue was the pin for the gear was missing, so it was eating at the case when used. Cleaned up the metal shavings and installed a pin and all is well. The starter gears didn't turn at all when the engine running though.

I can't think of much that would cause a drag on it while kick starting, maybe the idler gear for the kick start is missing the pin it normally rides on or something like that. If you can't figure it out, might have to pop the right side cover off and check things over. You have the sat in the weather forever machine to compare with (if it wasn't completely full of water). Sounds like something going on, but it's a new thing for me.

For the lights not working, there's a sub harness that runs down the back side of the engine on the right side and connects at the bottom for the neutral/reverse safety switches. There's normally a small metal cover over the connection point to protect it. If that wire is missing you'd have no neutral/reverse lights. Of course the bulbs could be blown too. The power to the lights from the alternator runs though a fuse that normally is behind where the headlight mounts, under the black cover I saw sitting on the machine in the one pic. One fuse is for the aux plug, and the other is for the rest of the machine. No neutral/reverse lights likely means no headlight or tail light power too and electric start won't work. Clearly the neutral switch is working for the machine to fire up since the CDI requires it to be in neutral, at least for the 85's it does.

[Homeless Dave]

When I said no lights, I meant that they are not on the machine, not even the bulb sockets. It wouls.not.be the first big red I have seem with a bad neutral light. My friends running 87 with a different cdi has to have a wire run and ground to trick the cdi to think it is always in neutral. I never did put in a different battery or put 12 volts to system, so I have no clue it the starter is actually the issue, but it feels like it is dragging and kicks really hard compared to my friends running bikes

[ps2fixer]

I see, I figured at least the neutral/reverse lights were in it lol. I make a bunch of electrical stuff for the big reds, not sure if you'd be interested in getting all that stuff replaced or just ride it without the lights. I make the neutral/reverse safety sub harness, neutral/reverse bulb socket sub harness, headlight socket, and could source the parts for the tail light sockets.

Anyway, I'm defo interested in what the diag comes out as for the drag in the engine. I have something like 5 of these machines so good to keep track of what can fail and how.

[Homeless Dave]

Well, I rode it around today. Put some 4 lug 4 wheeler tires on and fixed the brakes. However, I found out that the dude who gave me it, would like to have it back, albeit I will be payed and he is going to get me some more trikes. He has the intention of a complete cosmetic restoration and I will be able to ride at any time. He is my neighbor and a fellow trike rider, and I decided that I'm willing to hand it back over, the whole time I thought that if he wants, he can have it, especially since i do not have the money to restore it. I will post pictures as it comes along in the future.

[ps2fixer]

Hopefully he comes though on the more trikes. Hopefully you get fair pay for the work you did to the machine. Not sure if you swapped the whole harness or not, but harness + CDI should be worth something like $150-200 pretty easy just for the parts.

Defo a weird situation he put you in.

I guess he get's to have the fun diaging the drag in the engine, might want to mention that to him too. If you hear what it was, I'd be interested to hear what caused it.

[Homeless Dave]

I'm am to be payed well.ive done stuff for him before, not to mention he got me into trikes.

[deejaycee_2000]

@ps2fixer, how much do you charge for a reproduction harness for a 1985 ATC250ES?

[ps2fixer]

The 250ES and 200ES has a fairly similar amount of wiring going on so likely a similar price, however there's actually two connectors I can't get new for the 85 250ES harness. The round CDI connector, and there's a similar connector on the harness I haven't been able to source but haven't looked too hard. Sometime I have to see if any of my terminals work in the used housings. I can reuse the CDI connectors from a donor harness, but I haven't tested the other connector.

Anyway, if you want to chat a bit more about it, shoot me a pm. Probably best not to hijack Homeless Dave's thread (to keep it on topic).

[deejaycee_2000]

Sent you a PM, sorry Homeless Dave, didn't mean to highjack your post

[Homeless Dave]

It's fine, I have nothing else to post about except for I abou except that the neutral and reverse lights do work and new parts on order