I ordered a Lectron

[El Camexican]

Called JD Jetting on Friday and very politely asked the man that answered the phone if he would take my order for a needle. His response was the most condescending speech I’ve heard in over 30 years. Went on and on about how I need to buy a kit if I want that particular needle and how they NEVER sell individual parts.

When he finished his speech I told him a nice lady took my call a couple years back and sold me that same needle all by itself. After all but calling me a liar in another two minute undressing I politely told him I didn’t need all the brass that comes in his kits and to have a nice day. I then called Slavens Racing where they were more than happy to take my money and send me a tracking number for a 38mm Lectron 10 minutes later.

I’ll spend a grand testing Keihin needles before I give those pricks at JD another cent.

Long distance ride report coming in September.

[barnett468]

I hear ya on that, and have experienced the same crap.

Anyway, your title says "I ordered a Lectron", so what exactly does this all mean, and is it that super duper "jetless" carb that theoretically doesn't need needle changes etc?

[El Camexican]

I hear ya on that, and have experienced the same crap.

Anyway, your title says "I ordered a Lectron", so what exactly does this all mean, and is it that super duper "jetless" carb that theoretically doesn't need needle changes etc?

Yep. One of those no muss, no fuss jetless carbs. I'm tired of jetting a week in advance of a ride based on known elevation ranges and unknown weather conditions. Always hit and miss. one weekend you nail it and the next you're off with the same set-up on the same ride. The pilot and main are easy, I have those memorized for the conditions we ride in, its the needles and their settings that make or break the set-up and require witchcraft to pick prior to the ride date. The JD Jetting Blue jet that's recommended for the 1998 to 2003 250 KTM works pretty well on my 300 at the leanest clip position on warm days, so I wanted another one for a 3rd engine I have. They don't want to sell it on its own, so I'm going to try the Lectron and if it works as advertised I may get another.

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[Scootertrash]

Pardon my ignorance, but who or what is JD, besides John Deere?:wondering

[El Camexican]

Pardon my ignorance, but who or what is JD, besides John Deere?:wondering

It's a company owned by a guy named James Dean that sells kits of jets that include (in my case) a pilot jet, 5 mains and two needles to tune your bike with.

It's a good deal if you don't own any amount of brass, or have a clue where to begin when jetting a bike, as the individual parts would cost over $90 bucks, but in the end you only use $35 worth of his parts at a time. I've accumulated a few pounds of brass over the years and was only interested in the needle which is his specialty and the part he was unwilling to sell. Last time they charged me $20 + shipping for the needle and we called it a day.

[barnett468]

Yep. One of those no muss, no fuss jetless carbs. I'm tired of jetting a week in advance of a ride based on known elevation ranges and unknown weather conditions. Always hit and miss. one weekend you nail it and the next you're off with the same set-up on the same ride. The pilot and main are easy, I have those memorized for the conditions we ride in, its the needles and their settings that make or break the set-up and require witchcraft to pick prior to the ride date. The JD Jetting Blue jet that's recommended for the 1998 to 2003 250 KTM works pretty well on my 300 at the leanest clip position on warm days, so I wanted another one for a 3rd engine I have. They don't want to sell it on its own, so I'm going to try the Lectron and if it works as advertised I may get another.


Once you get the LECTRON dialed in, it will be better over a wider range of elevations and weather conditions but it can take some time to dial it in if it doesn't have the right needle in it for your app right right off the bat, in which case you will need to get a different needle, but I'm guessing you already know all this, but just in case.

As far as having to order an entire kit from the clown, here's one for ya. When you buy a spanking new Edelbrock carburetor for four hundred friggen dollars, in the majority of the cases, you also need to buy their $65.00 jetting kit just to get it to work half way decently and even them it still can't be tuned perfectly because thy do not make the jets and needles needed to jet it perfectly. I can jet them but if the parts I need are not in the kit it will never be perfect, and I literally gave a brand new one away that I removed from an engine I was working on because I hate them soooo much.

[HorseMcHorseman]

saw a 250r with a cr500 engine with a lectron on CL the other day. first i heard of it, so I looked them up, seems like it’s a carb with essentially dial-a-jet built in.

https://nh.craigslist.org/snw/d/belmont-honda-atc-250r-cr500-engine/6934050905.html

[Gabriel]

I know you get what you pay for but Christ almighty.....Those things are pricey!

[ironchop]

I came in here to see a f***ing Lectron....

Where the f**k is the Lectron?

On a side note, I built a Triumph Bonneville with a pair of Wal Phillips 'fuel injectors' on it. Get summa that! It doesn't get much more primitive than that

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[El Camexican]

I came in here to see a f***ing Lectron....

Where the f**k is the Lectron?

On a side note, I built a Triumph Bonneville with a pair of Wal Phillips 'fuel injectors' on it. Get summa that! It doesn't get much more primitive than that

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

I'll text you a copy of the invoice, that's the best I can do at the moment.

[El Camexican]

I know you get what you pay for but Christ almighty.....Those things are pricey!

Think of it this way...

$250 for a new 38mm Keihin AS. $100 for the brass and needles to tune it. Want to try a different slide? $180 bones. You don't want to be pulling out your tool kit on the trail to get a screw driver out to adjust your air screw or idle every 20 minutes going up the hill, so add another $40 for finger tip adjuster screws and you're already at $570 and you still need to dick with it if the air density changes more than 2,000'.

If this works as advertised I may have to stop being penny smart and dollar stupid and get another one. Seems the new EFI on KTM two strokes is not what we all hoped for, so this may be as good as it gets for the old smokers.

The Lectrons come set up for specific engines, so minimal tuning is expected, just set the idle they say.

[fieldy]

Looking forward to your full report on this carburetor!

[3 Wheel Drive]

Pardon my ignorance, but who or what is JD, besides John Deere?:wondering

Jack Daniels

[El Camexican]

I came in here to see a f***ing Lectron....

Where the f**k is the Lectron?

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Tad shorter than the Keihin, made it a little easier to install.

[Red Rider]

Beauty eh?

[ironchop]

Nice!

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[El Camexican]

Seems like a high quality piece of metal. I can’t help but wonder how long the float bowl will look new?

It was billed as being plug and play, but I’m not convinced. Ride report pending....

[shortline10]

After 3 years of hard riding the bowl is still like new .

[El Camexican]

Went to the Lectron page last night and saw there was a section on idle speed and how if you’ve run out of adjustment and your idle is still too low that you need to lean out the carb by turning the needle out 1/2 turn.

There a special tool for this that I don’t have yet, but I did it carefully using a rag and some needle nose pliers.

The needle has a flat side that must face the engine and a round side that faces away. Turning the needle 1/2 a turn missed this up, so you then need to push the needle up and out of its seat , rotate it back to where the flat side faces the engine and then let it slip back into the locating grooves.

The hardest part was extracting the slide with the carb on the bike and then getting it back in without damaging the very pricy needle.

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With that done I put gas in it, pulled the choke up and it started on the first kick. It ran without the choke immediately and the idle screw had to be turned out a fair bit to get the revs down.

Took it for a mile long ride through the neighborhood and was immediately struck by how much response it had from an idle. Pretty much lifts the wheel without any clutch or tug on the bars. The other thing that stuck out is how smooth it transitioned when the throttle was rolled on. From almost a dead stop to wide open in second gear there wasn’t a single pop, blubber, or hesitation.

The only thing that seemed a little off was that it didn’t quite rev out the way I’m used to. Probably just a little rich on the top, but that’s an easy external adjustment.

I’ll report back after next weekends ride.

[ironchop]

There a special tool for this that I don’t have yet, but I did it carefully using a rag and some needle nose pliers.



[emoji43][emoji43][emoji43]

****(sounds of fingernails raking across a chalkboard.....or maybe the needle of a record player dragging across the vinyl album while the volume is turned up)****

LOL I've been there myself though

That needle shape is something I've never seen. Looks cutting edge. Are the flats tapered? The sides of the needle look parallel to me.

My drag race buddies swear by Lectron carbs but I've never messed with one.
And also thanks for the great pics!


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[El Camexican]

Yes there is a taper that gradually decreases towards the top of the needle. That last pic could have been better, but I have a genetic shake that plays havoc while trying to get my phone to focus on something small. Probably why I avoid sexting.

About 20 years back all the Pro Stock bike guys switched from modified 41mm Mikuni RS carbs over to 44 mm Lectrons. I think they make them as large as 48mm now.

Anyway, back when they first came out there was something about the consistency of the needles or getting the 4 cable setups synchronized that had guys swearing off using them on multi cylinder engines. Paul Gast was the first big name remember using them and he may have even owned the company at some point.

The one and only guy I knew who was running them on a drag bike in the 80’s was a machinist and he told me that he had to spend a lot of time blueprinting his needles. He said he got them cheap off a guy who had given up on trying to get them to work.

There a video is saw explaining how the needle making process has improved, but I don’t know if it increased performance or just lowered the manufacturing cost.

[El Camexican]

So I put 15 miles on the bike and the most noticeable change was that it started very easily, but would only rev high enough to go 70mph at 4,000’ of elevation. So I turned in the high end screw 1/2 turn and continued on for another 70 miles getting great mileage and throttle response.

Then with only 10 miles remaining to get to the hotel I pinned it out and hit 83mph. The instant I rolled back on the throttle it sized solid putting me into a skid that got my heart pumping. I let it cool for 15 minutes and then managed to break the piston loose, but I guess I melted it because I have almost no compression. Caught a ride into town on a farmers 81 Dodge, not sure how I’m getting home, but needless to say my Lectron saga is just beginning.

[Dirtcrasher]

Son of a beyatch! She seized!!??

Hope it's not too bad!!...

[shortline10]

The nature of a lectron !
Tune them to their fastest potential and that’s usually a lean condition . Sorry to hear is seized , Hope the cylinder didn’t get damaged .

[El Camexican]

Thanks for the sympathy guys.

I haven't seized a 2 stroke, or even fouled a plug since 1980 something, so not too happy with myself for not being a little more prudent. The signs were there; lots of heat coming off the rads while coasting at 50mph on the highway and dry sounding pops in the pipe whenever I'd back off the throttle. I figure my previous to the pin blast was about 500' higher than the one that did it in and temps were coming down as the sun was setting. Still, I never had to mess with the old Keihin on this route and I recall pinning it out for much longer periods of time coming down that same hill.

So long story short I assume I'm going to need to keep stopping and adjusting the Lectron every time the air density changes a couple thousand feet. Not really what I had in mind, but I do like that I got over 37mpg prior to the incident VS the previous best of 27mpg with the Keihin. It was also suggested that I not hold the bike WOT for extended periods of time, but that seems restrictive.

[bkm]

If there's one thing I've learned with any carb, they usually rob Peter to pay Paul in some area.

[Billy Golightly]

Everyone's got different opinions but my experience has been the PWK series is the most reliable and "easy" to tune 2 stroke carburetor there is.

Yes, you need some jet assortments, but once it's dialed in it takes a lot of variables to pull it out of that sweet spot to me.

Played around with just about every other carb type and model (not including some super exotic billet trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro like the "smart carb")...with mains, pilots, and just 2-3 needles I feel like I can get a pwk 90-95% there. Never even ordered different slides. Then I cheat the last 5% and adjust that with spark plug heat ranges...


very sorry to hear you seized the bike on the Lectron Nico, you're lucky you were not hurt from the sounds of it. Don't let chasing perfection be the enemy of the good! :)

[El Camexican]

I have to agree with you about the PWK’s being easy to tune. My biggest complaint with them is the lack of a pilot jet smaller than 35. In my experience anything over 9,000’ in warm weather and the #35 is too big. If a smaller pilot jet was available and there was some way to make adjusting the needle easier I’d be happy to keep using one, but the jump in mileage the Lecton gave me is well worth whatever learning curve lies ahead.

We have a few routes that have 120 mile fuel gaps. If I can get this carb sorted out and still average 30+ mpg my trips would be a lot less stressful.

[El Camexican]

Just a tad on the lean side :naughty:

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[El Camexican]

Not as bad as I expected, but it looks like some of the nikasil chipped off around the port edges. Probably going to have to redo it. Oddly the power valve seems scared up as well. I would have thought there was enough clearance on those to clear even the hottest piston.

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[Red Rider]

That sucks, sorry to hear about the issues.

[El Camexican]

That sucks, sorry to hear about the issues.

Thanks, I'm not too concerned about it, sh*t happens and we move on, I just don't want this to be the norm because next time might not happen on a well traveled road.

After looking at the carnage up close I'm starting to think the main issue was a lack of lubrication. The cylinder walls are bone dry as is the top of the piston, the head and the inside of the pipe.


Consider that last year I consumed 4.25 gallons of fuel in 90 miles and had to wait for one of the quad guys to come and give me a couple gallons in order to finish the trip, but this year I made it 101 miles on only 3.42 gallons. That's well over 25% less fuel and a lot less oil per revolution considering that I was mixing at 60:1 both times.

So in my simple way of looking at this, besides richening up the carb, I should probably consider running a 40 or 50:1 oil ratio in the future, just to replace what's absent due to the decrease in fuel consumption.

60:1 is great on the low speed trails, but it's probably not enough to protect an engine on an extended top end blast. It will be interesting to see if there's any oil at all in the cases when I get it opened.

I may also have encouraged this to happen by running a B piston instead of an A piston. Mark at Kustom Kraft likes his tolerances a little looser than I do, so I always ask him for a B piston (or a C piston if I have a little wear) and he often reminds me that I'd better be careful warming things up, I laugh, he takes my card number and life goes on. I think I'll stick with the A size from now on. and maybe add a couple thou to my ring gaps.

[El Camexican]

Finally got around to driving the piston out of the cylinder. Still waiting for a call back on the “recommended settings” before I use the carb again.

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The cylinder is bad, not sure it can be re-plated without some welding.

[yaegerb]

Damn man. I am guessing muratic acid and some emery cloth won’t be enough for that cylinder? It chipped the Nik?

[El Camexican]

Damn man. I am guessing muratic acid and some emery cloth won’t be enough for that cylinder? It chipped the Nik?

Not sure what you can see in the photo, but it pulled plating off in a couple spots near the transfer ports. The power-valve also has some deep gouges in it even though there is no damage on that side of the piston, weird, maybe some shrapnel got in there.

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Slavens emailed me a list of dimensions to check on the carb, so we’ll see if mine was way off, or if this thing is just cursed.

[yaegerb]

Oooooo, had to blow that one image up. Yeah that’s fubar

[El Camexican]

Oooooo, had to blow that one image up. Yeah that’s fubar

Wiseco makes pistons up to 1mm over for sleeved cylinders, so maybe it can bored out and plated to 73mm? If not I’ll probably end up with a cast sleeve.

[Red Rider]

Wiseco makes pistons up to 1mm over for sleeved cylinders, so maybe it can bored out and plated to 73mm? If not I’ll probably end up with a cast sleeve.Why not just de-plate, weld-up, re-bore to stock size, & then re-plate?

[El Camexican]

Why not just de-plate, weld-up, re-bore to stock size, & then re-plate?

Not sure what's going to happen. Welding sounds pricy, so my thought is that if the gouges can be removed by going to 73mm and then plating it my be my cheapest opting. If not I'll probably sleeve it. Kustom Kraft will have to make the decision for me.

[HondaRidr]

Did you continue to experiment with the lectron? What are your thoughts on it if you did?

[ATC King]

I've been looking at the Lectron and Smart carbs more.

I put a Edelbrock Quicksilver on one of my bikes recently. I think it was designed by the same guy that invented the Lectron, and it also doesn't use jets, just a needle. It does have an accelerator pump though, but no power jet.

The Edelbrock has been out of production for many years now. If something ever happens to it, Lectron is the only carb similar, that's available new.

I'm liking the Edelbrock and it has an externally adjustable needle. In less than a minute, I can adjust it. With the accelerator pump, starting is faster than ever (no choke or enricher needed), idle is super smooth, low and mid power is better, and it seems like fuel economy has improved (need to verify).

It's strangely empty looking under the float bowl. There's nothing there but a float and the portion of the needle tube. No air circuits or anything. Mind blowing how well it works with so few parts.

[El Camexican]

I know it’s been a while, but two years after smoking an engine on my maiden Lectron voyage I was finally ready to try again on Friday.

Having gone with the theory that if a little is good then more is better the last time I leaned out the carb I’m of the belief that the demise of the last engine was 100% my fault.

So, with the Lectron adjusted back to factory settings plus a slightly richer top end adjustment I took it out Friday morning bolted to a brand new motor and proceeded to drive from about 1400 feet of elevation at 75 Fahrenheit to about 10,000 feet where it was raining and snowing. Of course I had nothing on but a vented jersey and a chest protector, so I literally froze my tits. I’m not sure if any of you have experienced FTS, or frozen tits syndrome, but it hurts like a SOB. The only good thing about it is it a distraction from the fact that you’re going into hypothermia.

So anyway, enough about my tits. The carb performed as advertised. I averaged 32 miles to the gallon and on the way up the mountain the bike felt like it would have at 6,000’ with the Keihin.

The first time I have ever gone up that trail and not felt like the bike was going to stall out. At lower altitude‘s the bottom end is really crisp. It has a few oddities in the mid range that I can’t quite explain, but I’m going to try working with the power valve before making any other carburetor adjustment.

So, basically better starting, better bottom end, much better manners at high altitude, but above three-quarter throttle I think the Keihin makes more power. I don’t drive a whole lot above 3/4 throttle, so the Lectron gets the nod for high altitude trail riding.

More to come…

[ATC King]

That's great you got it worked out and didn't just abandon the different technology.


Maybe you've already mentioned, but did you find the idle needed set a touch higher than with a traditional carb?

[El Camexican]

Maybe you've already mentioned, but did you find the idle needed set a touch higher than with a traditional carb?

I’m still not sure what to make of the idle settings.

The needle is adjusted based on what it takes to get the idle set right in the middle and it is exactly how they said to set it now. The idle drops a bit at higher altitudes and goes up at lower altitudes just like the stocker, but definitely idles smoother at low RPM than it did with the stock carburetor and you can close the choke immediately after it starts if temps are over 70F.

I “might” be able to lean it out one more turn, but I’m going to consult with Lectron before I do something stupid again.