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DAM shop
10-24-2019, 04:22 PM
So I’ve decided it’s time I get me a muscle car. Not exactly sure what I’m looking for other that something these shallow pockets can afford (I have a price range) I’m partial to the 60’s but not opposed to something newer. Olds were my car of choice back in the day. I’m partial to the gm 69 year cars. I also like the sguare body cars of the early 60’s
With that being said what do you all think is one of the most underrated muscle cars of any era? There are many let’s hear your opinions?

Gabriel
10-24-2019, 06:07 PM
One word.....resto-mod.
The old motors were great but compared to anything new....they suck donkey.
Obviously this doesn’t apply to something that’s valued for originality.

For anything GM....as great as the old small blocks were....an LS motor puts them to shame.
Were I intelligent enough....or wealthy...I’d have a cool old car sporting a well installed late model engine and know I won’t be turning wrenches even half as much.

That Super Bird they did on Graveyard Carz with the Hellcat running gear....hells yes!!!
Nothing the good ole days had to offer can touch that for performance.

Some people hate new stuff and that’s cool but you asked for opinions.


If we’re dreaming here.....’69 Camaro with an LSX. Looks good. Sounds good. Stand on the pedal watch it get all kinda stupid.

bkm
10-24-2019, 07:31 PM
The Buick 455 GS cars were very underrated and I'm a Ford guy.

The vintage car market is bonkers right now. 4 door Galaxie's are selling for 6-7k when a few years ago, they were parts cars.

Clean Foxbody Mustangs are going for 10-15k.

I've been keeping up on cars lately and looked at a few the last couple of weeks. Basically if you want a nice rust free driver tastefully modded, you're looking at 15-20k.

I've looked at several 7-10k 60's Fords the last several weeks and they all had issues.

DAM shop
10-24-2019, 07:55 PM
The Plymouth duster, demon, valiant with a wedge 340 and a manual tranny are also underrated. Light in weight stick a 440 in it and it’s a monster. I found a 69 valiant signet with a 340 in it. Although it’s not a manual. I like those square bodies.
The laguna pushing a 454 is also underrated. By the early 70’s the muscle car era was over but some manufacturers were still trying to push those monster motors in more of the sedan style cars

DAM shop
10-24-2019, 08:34 PM
The Buick 455 GS cars were very underrated and I'm a Ford guy.

The vintage car market is bonkers right now. 4 door Galaxie's are selling for 6-7k when a few years ago, they were parts cars.

Clean Foxbody Mustangs are going for 10-15k.

I've been keeping up on cars lately and looked at a few the last couple of weeks. Basically if you want a nice rust free driver tastefully modded, you're looking at 15-20k.

I've looked at several 7-10k 60's Fords the last several weeks and they all had issues.

The GS might be underrated as far as muscle cars go, never really getting it’s respect in the day but the prices now sure don’t reflect that, they are pricey.
Heck my 65 cutlass with a 330 and a Quadra jet carb and a Muncie 4-speed was underrated. Light in weight I beat my share of Big blocks back in the day. Not worth a darn an the strip but for a street car it held its own.

Plus I’m okay with issues as long as it’s a driver. Good bones and interior are paramount beings that would be a big cost. The motor is affordable doing the work yourself and the options available for replacement

jb2wheels
10-24-2019, 10:12 PM
I don't think shallow pockets and 69 GM cars go together anymore.

Maybe a wagon, El Camino/Sprint, or more-door.

People either love or hate El Caminos, Sprints, and Rancheros - helps prices.

A 5.0 Ranchero would be fun.

Arky-X
10-24-2019, 10:13 PM
I was going to say the Buick GS as well but you're right, those are very desirable right now.
Heck, I like the early 70s Olds cars. Simple, drive well, and got a little class with a little sport to them too.

This is my mom's 70 Cutlass

260426

83ATC185
10-25-2019, 08:30 AM
Always liked the 70 cutlass...what about a buick grand national or turbo regal? A quick craigslist search tells me those aren't as affordable as they used to be though...

ironchop
10-25-2019, 08:49 AM
Arky, your mom's car is gorgeous!

I was a Cutlass junkie 68-72.

They were more affordable in the 80s and 90s than alot of other muscle cars and I liked the 350 rocket and 455 Olds although it had little aftermarket support.

Everyone wanted Camaro/Chevelle/1st Gen Nova/Chevy II as far as GM was concerned. I always thought the Olds/Buick/Pontiacs were all underrated

My roomie had a '71 Buick GS and I was driving a '69 LeMans at the time and we would 'wife swap' our cars sometimes up until the local sheriff picked him up for racing my LeMans against a Chevelle on a four lane state highway. Bryan is right, the GS 455 was a beast and had full electric interior, iirc. It was like a gentleman's muscle car. Rear was geared .308 so it would absolutely slam you against the seat when you hit the gas.

My first was when I was 17 or 18. I bought a '66 Chevelle with no drive train and I dropped a 327/350 in it back when they were plentiful in every junkyard in America.

My list:
'66 Chevelle
70 Nova
69 LeMans
(2) '70 notchback Cutlass's
71 fastback Cutlass
72 fastback Cutlass
69 Dodge Charger
68 Plymouth GTX
71 Camaro (with a hacksaw split bumper lol)

I don't count these as a muscle car because it was after 73, but I had a 78 or 79 Firebird Formula 455 and a regular 78 Firebird that I put an olds 350 in. I also owned a 77 280Z when I lived in St Pete. That car was crazy fast and I raced it across the bridge to Tampa, regularly.

There were some 69-72 Chevy trucks and a 68 Ford truck sprinkled in there too




Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

Joseph Farrow
10-25-2019, 10:07 AM
As far as Underrated......
I have always liked the AMC's Javelin / AMX / Rebels.
The Mercury Cyclone's are kick ass as well.

But with that being said....I've always been a Big Block Chevy fan. It's a Chevelle or nothing. :D

Arky-X
10-25-2019, 11:04 AM
Unfortunately, anything that was called a "muscle car" is going to have the "$" to go with it.

As long as you stay away from the specific ones like Judge, GTO, GNX, 442 or those desirable badges, you can start talking reasonable prices for the basic ones from the 60-70s. Probably still looking at $10k minimum for one that you can hop in and drive. I like the Dodge Dart and Plymouth Dusters but I'm seeing those for $10-15k for the base model ones. Probably don't have a V-8 under the hood. Friend had a Chevy Malibu in high school and everyone swore it was a Chevelle. You can go that route by looking for the cheaper or less desirable models from the day.


Chop, I will tell my mom you approve.
My dad & mom bought that about 10 years ago at an auction. The man owned a car dealership and on some cars he took in on trades he would take to his house for keepers instead of putting them on the used lot. That man passed away and the wife wanted nothing to do with the 5 airplane size hangers full of cars. Nothing of great value but lots of survivors. Last time I checked the odometer it had 22k miles. That car is ALL OLDS (had to replace the water pump, belts, hoses, tires, and ?radiator?)
Dad liked it because they could drive that one to car cruises and he didn't have to load it on a trailer like the others. Since he passed, it is up to us kids to keep those running.

83ATC185
10-25-2019, 12:02 PM
https://bringatrailer.com/2017/05/14/500ci-cadillac-big-block-swap-1978-amc-pacer/

I remember seeing this for sale for 6000 a few years ago. Its ugly. It would be a lot of fun, if not a traditional muscle car.

ATC King
10-25-2019, 07:45 PM
If you're willing to build something with muscle car lineage, I suggest the GM '75-'79 X-bodies.

They're still available for a song. They are GM, corporate, parts bin cars, which means for the builder, a crap load of interchangeability, and that translates into junk yard upgrades on the cheap.

The Nova, Omega, Phoneix, and Skylark are all essentially the same car, which some year Camaro and Firebird chassis parts fit. They came with Buick, Olds, and Chevrolet engines, I6,V6, and V8, so engine swaps to about anything made those years is bolt in and go. A Olds small block to big block swap is about as easy as it gets, because their small blocks are so large.

The cars are a lot lighter weight than many previous models, so every horsepower made, goes faster.

They even share a chassis design to the '76-'79 Cadillac Seville, which came stock with rear disc brakes. If you find one for a parts car, you'll have a OEM disk brake rear end.



The down side is little to no aftermarket support for things like interior small parts, so you'd want to find one that isn't all ratted out. Same for exterior parts, like tail light assemblies, grills and...bumper fillers. Those bumper fillers can be tossed anyway, and drill, drain, the bumper shocks then compress them until the bumper lines up (mostly), then weld the bled shocks in place.



These were the last of the X body muscle car heritage. The next generation X-bodies went FWD. The Olds Omega had round headlights up until the end in 1979. As things go, once all the previous car prices are out of reach, people move on the next, which will probably have these holding or slightly increasing in value over the next decade.


Internet pictures of Olds Omega.
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260429

DAM shop
10-25-2019, 07:56 PM
Always liked the 70 cutlass...what about a buick grand national or turbo regal? A quick craigslist search tells me those aren't as affordable as they used to be though...


The Grand national is a bad arse car and are bringing some pretty good jack these days.

DAM shop
10-25-2019, 08:02 PM
https://bringatrailer.com/2017/05/14/500ci-cadillac-big-block-swap-1978-amc-pacer/

I remember seeing this for sale for 6000 a few years ago. Its ugly. It would be a lot of fun, if not a traditional muscle car.
Hahahaha, that just seems wrong

DAM shop
10-25-2019, 08:05 PM
As far as Underrated......
I have always liked the AMC's Javelin / AMX / Rebels.
The Mercury Cyclone's are kick ass as well.

But with that being said....I've always been a Big Block Chevy fan. It's a Chevelle or nothing. :D


Throw up a pic of your chevelle Joe.
Hey sorry we couldn’t hook up this weekend, rolled into Crossville a few hours ago. Enjoying this TN rain.

86T3
10-25-2019, 10:00 PM
Crazy timing for this post, I just pulled my Nova out of storage yesterday! It's been there for years, I got it out and rolled it down the street to a friend who's going to work on it this summer. I'm I 100% agreement with Gabriel, resto models is the way to go. I'm putting a pro touring suspension in, an ls motor, 6 speed and a ro cage so I can have a safer option than the lap belts it previously had. Oh yea, I want AC too.

For recommendations I have to go with what I love, 1st gen novas. They are still undervalued. There was a gorgeous stock looking 63 convertible on FB for $16k today. You can still get project cars for a couple grand. The bolt on aftermarket options are incredible, and growing. They're light and good looking too.

If you're willing to venture away from cars, take a look at the 47-55 GM trucks. They are also extremely undervalued compared to other trucks and their are a ton out their. Built or stock. They fit onto an 10th frame, and while I know it wont be an autocross champion, they do ride nice. And, they're my favorite truck style. Just something to think about.

260430

bkm
10-26-2019, 04:43 AM
Crazy timing for this post, I just pulled my Nova out of storage yesterday! It's been there for years, I got it out and rolled it down the street to a friend who's going to work on it this summer. I'm I 100% agreement with Gabriel, resto models is the way to go. I'm putting a pro touring suspension in, an ls motor, 6 speed and a ro cage so I can have a safer option than the lap belts it previously had. Oh yea, I want AC too.

For recommendations I have to go with what I love, 1st gen novas. They are still undervalued. There was a gorgeous stock looking 63 convertible on FB for $16k today. You can still get project cars for a couple grand. The bolt on aftermarket options are incredible, and growing. They're light and good looking too.

If you're willing to venture away from cars, take a look at the 47-55 GM trucks. They are also extremely undervalued compared to other trucks and their are a ton out their. Built or stock. They fit onto an 10th frame, and while I know it wont be an autocross champion, they do ride nice. And, they're my favorite truck style. Just something to think about.

260430Nice Ford Tear Drop hood on your Chebby there mister.

El Camexican
10-26-2019, 07:04 AM
Nice Ford Tear Drop hood on your Chebby there mister.

Thunder Acadian was my first thought.

Those hoods are so cool you can’t blame people for putting them on Chevys.

86T3
10-26-2019, 01:10 PM
It has a Ford 9" rear too. For some reason, Ford made cool scoops and strong rear ends for the overweight boat anchors they called engines

Gabriel
10-26-2019, 02:46 PM
There are several cars that weren't "cool back in the day" that would be very cool now.
Off the top of my head:
-Oldsmobile Omega from the early 70's...basically a nova
-AMC AMX
-Ford maverick
-Mustang II ....IF you can do some body mods
-mid 70's Plymouth Volare

Arky-X
10-26-2019, 03:01 PM
I never considered a Corvette a muscle car but rather in a class by itself. A poor man's exotic, if you will.
Used to think those were the ugliest cars made but they've grown on me.

But, I've seen the mid to late 70s Vettes going for reasonable prices. A 79 Vette rolled across Barrett-Jackson auction a couple months ago for $9k. Those announcers were talking about what a steal that was.....and I've always considered prices on Barrett-Jackson to be a little hyped.
These things are <$20k and you can get some for around $10k that still have the original turd for a motor (no horsepower.) Drop an LS in it or find a used 604 crate motor (400hp/400ft-lb) that was run in a dirt track car.

Billy Golightly
10-26-2019, 04:01 PM
There are several cars that weren't "cool back in the day" that would be very cool now.
Off the top of my head:
-Oldsmobile Omega from the early 70's...basically a nova
-AMC AMX
-Ford maverick
-Mustang II ....IF you can do some body mods
-mid 70's Plymouth Volare


Yep...AMC Javelin/AMX has been kinda underrated and cool car to me. 2nd Gen.

The 401 variants apparently were actually pretty fast. Parts are pretty tough though.

http://www.amcarguide.com/wp-content/gallery/javelin-c2/1973-amc-javelin-sst.jpg

http://www.amcarguide.com/muscle-cars/amc-javelin-1971-1974-2nd-generation/

bkm
10-26-2019, 09:53 PM
Hurst AMC Rambler 390 was another underrated car.

bkm
10-26-2019, 09:54 PM
It has a Ford 9" rear too. For some reason, Ford made cool scoops and strong rear ends for the overweight boat anchors they called enginesYou can thank Ford for your Basic Bitche LS engine. It's a SBF in sheep's clothing.

El Camexican
10-27-2019, 12:43 AM
Hurst AMC Rambler 390 was another underrated car.

I forgot all about those. A guy we bricked a house for when I was 16 had a silver one done up in drag trim. Very sharp cars.


My buddy’s sister (too old for me) had a 401 Javelin. Too bad it was brown.

Joseph Farrow
10-27-2019, 11:54 AM
Throw up a pic of your chevelle Joe.
Hey sorry we couldn’t hook up this weekend, rolled into Crossville a few hours ago. Enjoying this TN rain.

Hey Matt definitely not the best weekend to visit Tennessee. Hope you didnt experience any of the strong winds that passed through yesterday. Crazy stuff. Blew 7 semi over on the I40 bridge at the Tennessee River.

Here are the Chevelle's

1970 Chevelle LS6 Coupe
260445

1972 Chevelle LS5 Convertible
260446

DAM shop
10-27-2019, 08:24 PM
Hey Matt definitely not the best weekend to visit Tennessee. Hope you didnt experience any of the strong winds that passed through yesterday. Crazy stuff. Blew 7 semi over on the I40 bridge at the Tennessee River.

Here are the Chevelle's

1970 Chevelle LS6 Coupe
260445

1972 Chevelle LS5 Convertible
260446

Nice looking chevelle’s Joe, they both look to be pretty much stock. I’ve always felt that the chevelle’s were the pinnacle of the muscle cars.

thornton
10-28-2019, 07:17 PM
im a big block chevy guy myself ,but i like a little variety as far as hotrods/muscle cars go. the newer small blocks run good but hard to be the sound and grunt/torgue of a big block

ATC King
10-29-2019, 08:54 PM
Fast and cheap. That's what muscle cars were to teenagers in the 1960's. At least until insurance companies seen otherwise and now AARP card holders drive the prices for half century old sheet metal into the stratosphere to relive their glory days.

I think that's something that shouldn't be forgotten.




To that, fast and cheap, the Bad Seed:
https://bangshift.com/bangshift1320/bangshift1320-drag-racing-feature/magnante-speaks-the-story-of-the-bad-seed-chevette-cheap-project-car-insanity-part-2/
260465


I've got that issue. I have owned a Chevette. It didn't have a Cadillac 500, but I did weld the diff gears together for dirt road fun. I do have a mid 80's car with a Olds 455 though, and anyone who knows when Olds stopped building the 455, knows it doesn't belong in a mid 80's car.

I'll second the big block sound, even if it isn't moving a fast as some modern engines.

Arky-X
10-29-2019, 09:41 PM
I've heard the Olds 455 mentioned on this thread more than once. My brother ran one in a dirt track car for a few years. I remember him talking about building it to W30 specs which meant torque, torque and more torque. Funny thing was how it could handle the RPM too which I didn't expect out of a big block. It really shined on the bigger 3/8 and 1/2 mile tracks.

DAM shop
10-29-2019, 09:57 PM
The 455 was a monster motor, still a very much a sought after motor. I have a olds 425 motor punched .30 over sitting in the shop, something I’ve been hoping to go thru for way to many years.

ironchop
10-29-2019, 10:56 PM
The 455 was a monster motor, still a very much a sought after motor. I have a olds 425 motor punched .30 over sitting in the shop, something I’ve been hoping to go thru for way to many years.If I recall, the Buick and Olds 455's both had high 4's to low 500's ft/lb of torque and I believe they were both more than the Ford 460.

Someone correct me if that's not true while I go look it up

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DAM shop
10-30-2019, 06:47 AM
If I recall, the Buick and Olds 455's both had high 4's to low 500's ft/lb of torque and I believe they were both more than the Ford 460.

Someone correct me if that's not true while I go look it up

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

480 ft pounds for the high output 455

83ATC185
10-30-2019, 09:21 AM
I love the fact that all of the olds v8s are pretty much directly interchangeable, you get bored with the 307 or 350 and you can drop in a 455 without much trouble and it doesn't change the appearance much. And a lot of those early 80s gm cars are a set of motor mounts away from being able to run whatever you want.

DAM shop
10-31-2019, 03:06 PM
A few el's I've been looking at on-line

260482 66 with a 383 stroker 11.5

260483 65 with a 327 9.5

260484 68 with a 400 manual tranny, 12.5

260485 66 with a 350 + new 700R4 auto trans with overdrive.. 8g

ATC King
11-18-2019, 11:13 PM
I'd go for the '65.

That's my own dislike for the forward slant nose on the later 60's Chevy cars. Same as how I prefer the early 60's Nova's over the later 60's ones. The later ones look bloated and hunched up like a Hot Wheels muscle car, whereas the early ones look unassuming, yet still stylish.

I've always preferred more of a sleeper car and confess I've never been much of a testicular bromance car enthusiast. Even as a teenager, I gravitated towards the big ones that could haul the mail.

A couple of videos I've like for years.

I had this car as a Chevy, just with at 400 small block. Notice it's a four door hard top. Pretty rare and very slick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10i1y2ZFFT4

This is like the current car I have with a 455. A two door LeSabre from the early 80's. Pretty hard to come by and very difficult to get out of in modern parking spaces when it has 5' long doors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kMTHwjy6Z8

Arky-X
11-19-2019, 12:52 PM
Glamy lives!

kevin
11-19-2019, 04:54 PM
I'm still partial to the 68/69 chevelle here's a pic of my 69 Pontiac Beaumont Canadian made chevelle had it since I was 16 also have another 69 chevelle that's been sitting under a tarp for the last 20years and am hoping when life slows down I can start working on that one just to leaving the stock body and interior but put in a twin turbo 6.0... I have to say the aussie chevelle is bad ass!!260751

kevin
11-19-2019, 05:03 PM
Bad Ass!260752

Jim mac
11-19-2019, 10:01 PM
for the most bang for the bucks. I'd go with a 60s el camino. nice as a chevelle and you can haul your trikes in back. ( hunt up some of my old posts to see my 68 loaded with atc's). since you said your on a budget, stay away fr the LS type stuff, just a old school chevy V8, cheap! dependable and easy to work on
jim

DAM shop
11-14-2020, 11:24 PM
I see there is a 68 Pontiac Beaumont for sale on one of my watch groups. It’s in Canada so maybe it one of the members car. I’ve heard of the Beaumont before but didn’t know a whole lot about them. Most important fact is that it was made and sold in Canada only and the other interesting fact is the mix and match of style and motors that it used. Didn’t think the asking price of 19,000 was a terrible price.

El Camexican
11-15-2020, 03:12 AM
Canada isn’t a good place for cars to age, everything rusts up there unless it was religiously parked from October to April every year of its life. Take a good look at the underside of anything you find up there.

coolpool
11-15-2020, 12:06 PM
Canada isn’t a good place for cars to age, everything rusts up there unless it was religiously parked from October to April every year of its life. Take a good look at the underside of anything you find up there.

True to a point El Cam. Cars from the southern parts of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba had a fighting chance due to the dry climate and super cold winters where salt is ineffective for ice control. Sand and gravel we're the traction aid of choice.

El Camexican
11-15-2020, 02:47 PM
True to a point El Cam. Cars from the southern parts of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba had a fighting chance due to the dry climate and super cold winters where salt is ineffective for ice control. Sand and gravel we're the traction aid of choice.

True, most of the stuff I’ve seen that was driven West of MB was decent, but the stuff east of there is rotten.

My grandfathers last pickup, a 1970 F100 that never saw salt is still pretty rusty from what I assume was y’all the sandblasting of the gravel roads.