PDA

View Full Version : Metal in oil



AdamA
08-24-2020, 10:50 AM
Hello I'm new to the forum i recently purchased a 1982 Honda atc200E. I decided to change the oil before doing to much ridding. After i was finished and was moving the oil drain pan i noticed in the pan was a small steel ring i thought at first it was c shaped but then i found another piece of it that would have made it a full circle roughly the diameter of a dime and pretty thin. Anyone have any ideas what it could be I'm not very tech savvy and can't figure out how to add a picture. Any help would be appreciated.

yaegerb
08-24-2020, 02:43 PM
Hello I'm new to the forum i recently purchased a 1982 Honda atc200E. I decided to change the oil before doing to much ridding. After i was finished and was moving the oil drain pan i noticed in the pan was a small steel ring i thought at first it was c shaped but then i found another piece of it that would have made it a full circle roughly the diameter of a dime and pretty thin. Anyone have any ideas what it could be I'm not very tech savvy and can't figure out how to add a picture. Any help would be appreciated.

Could be part of a thread that came out when you unscrewed your oil bolt.

AdamA
08-24-2020, 03:33 PM
At first i thought the same thing but the piece i found was a little over half the diameter of the oil drain plug

Jd110
08-25-2020, 08:46 AM
Should be a spring behind the drain bolt, holding the oil screen in place. Sounds like it could be a piece of the spring.

AdamA
08-25-2020, 09:06 AM
If i remember right i think that spring is made of round steel the ring i found is flat and pretty thin i might have to pull the drain plug back out and check that spring

jasong_10
08-26-2020, 11:18 PM
Could it be a crush washer/gasket for the drain plug?

AdamA
08-27-2020, 02:08 PM
I don't think the plug had a crush washer but if so the ring i found is much smaller than the drain plug.

ATC King
08-30-2020, 09:11 PM
Just like finding tools lost inside of crevasses on old cars, and change under the rear seats (or a Krewe of Satan medallion, true story, was riding with the devil, for years, and didn't even know it) there's no damn telling what you'll find tearing into one of these for the first time.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/189647-Finding-Turd-Nuggets

If that's all you found and it doesn't seem to be affecting anything, you're good to go.

You can always pop the clutch cover off and dig around in the centrifugal oil filter. It probably needs it anyway.

AdamA
08-31-2020, 10:12 AM
Thanks i was kinda thinking the same thing if it ain't broke don't fix it right. I think I'm gonna have to tear it down and put rings in it so maybe I'll see where it came from.

ATC King
09-01-2020, 12:33 PM
Ponder this...it may have come from nowhere.


Nowhere inside the engine. It's possible, someone changed the oil, seen that in the funky oil pan they used, and thought it's supposed to be in there, and just stuffed it in.

That's exactly the reason I clean my oil drain pans after every use. An oil change is also a diagnostic opportunity. If the pan is full of crap already, that opportunity is gone. My drain pans are put away clean and ready, just like every tool I use.

It's kind of along the lines of me smelling oil, antifreeze, gear oil, gasoline at a traffic light and starting to freak out a little that it's coming from my vehicle. Nope, it's the oblivious dufus with the pile of crap next to me, who'll actually drive the wheels off of something instead of bothering to do basic maintenance.

AdamA
09-01-2020, 02:18 PM
No way i always clean up before and after working on anything my dad instilled that in me all growing up. I did the oil change in my garage with my tools. I made sure to clean the drain pan before i used it wiped it down and all. I don't mind dirty tools but only while I'm using them.

ATC King
09-01-2020, 06:24 PM
Oh yeah, I didn't mean you. No telling how many beers have been drank by previous owners doing some late night wrenching.

I'm pretty sure some people have even used the beer carton to make gaskets, but I'm not going to pick on that one too hard. I'm pretty sure some of those will read this, and then the argument about which brand beer has the best carton for making gaskets will start. :)

AdamA
09-03-2020, 08:37 AM
Agreed honestly i even wondered if maybe it never passed through the engine. When i changed the oil i tipped it sideways to ensure all the oil came out plugged it put in a sacrificial quart of oil drained and tipped it sideways again. So it's possible that it was laying somewhere on the trike and just fell into the drain pan. The world may never know but i thought maybe someone may have more insight than me i wanna be able to preserve this machine they are getting hard to find in good shape and this one visually is tits. I just put a new carb on it and i think after a fresh set of rings it will be good for many years.

ironchop
09-09-2020, 03:41 PM
Agreed honestly i even wondered if maybe it never passed through the engine. When i changed the oil i tipped it sideways to ensure all the oil came out plugged it put in a sacrificial quart of oil drained and tipped it sideways again. So it's possible that it was laying somewhere on the trike and just fell into the drain pan. The world may never know but i thought maybe someone may have more insight than me i wanna be able to preserve this machine they are getting hard to find in good shape and this one visually is tits. I just put a new carb on it and i think after a fresh set of rings it will be good for many years.

The wrist pin clips holding the wrist pin in the piston are round metal rings and the size of a dime. If they pop out, they can slip down past the piston skirt and down into the crankcase, getting easily chewed in half.

It's common to accidentally drop one of them down into the crankcase when trying to remove a piston from the rod when doing topend rebuilds. I like to stuff a shop rag in the crankcase rod opening or duct tape off the crank/rod areas to keep this from happening. Sometimes people don't get the clip seated into it's groove in the piston and it pops out and then badly gouges your cylinder walls with the wrist pin when it migrates sideways because the retainer clip is missing

AdamA
09-09-2020, 06:59 PM
Man a friend of mine from work suggested the same thing. So i looked up rebuild kits and it looked like the wrist pin clips were c shaped. What i found was 2 pieces one large piece that was more c shaped but had an obvious broken end and one smooth end. The other piece was small with a broken end that matches the other piece perfectly and one smooth end. Put together it makes a complete ring with the two smooth ends touching perfectly. I could totally see it being a clip of some kind. Do you know if the wrist pin clips are all c shaped? Or if possibly some are like a split ring?

ironchop
09-09-2020, 07:54 PM
Man a friend of mine from work suggested the same thing. So i looked up rebuild kits and it looked like the wrist pin clips were c shaped. What i found was 2 pieces one large piece that was more c shaped but had an obvious broken end and one smooth end. The other piece was small with a broken end that matches the other piece perfectly and one smooth end. Put together it makes a complete ring with the two smooth ends touching perfectly. I could totally see it being a clip of some kind. Do you know if the wrist pin clips are all c shaped? Or if possibly some are like a split ring?

The wrist pin clips have a gap between the two ends, maybe a 1/16" to 1/8". Looks like more of a split ring than a C shape BUT if it got mangled running through the transmission, it's possible the shape was distorted a little by the time you found it in your oil. They are spring steel but aren't too hard to bend out of shape with a little force

ATC King
09-09-2020, 08:25 PM
I'm guessing someone used to working with Shovelheads knows something about wrist pin clips...

AdamA
09-10-2020, 01:42 PM
Thanks allot man i was really afraid that's what it was but really hoping it wasn't. But it smokes a little anyway so i was already planning on replacing the rings. So not a major bummer i guess. Just hope that the jug ain't trashed. Thanks again.

ironchop
09-10-2020, 09:08 PM
Thanks allot man i was really afraid that's what it was but really hoping it wasn't. But it smokes a little anyway so i was already planning on replacing the rings. So not a major bummer i guess. Just hope that the jug ain't trashed. Thanks again.

Don't fret yet.....I only pointed out worst case scenario (clip popped out of the currently installed piston)

Better case scenario, and probably more likely, is that someone did the topend before, dropped a wrist pin clip down into the cases when removing/installing the piston at another time but didn't bother trying to fish it out. Your cylinder might still be fine and both clips present on the current piston. I would still pull the jug and look to be sure both are present, because gaskets are cheaper than the destruction caused by a migrating wrist pin....... However, I wouldn't expect the worst. It's a pretty common thing for people to accidently drop a clip they removed or were trying to install down into the crankcase. Clint, mentioned motorcycle engines and I can tell you from my personal experiences and also watching others drop a clip, that it's so common, it should be a Murphy's Law #2106 "if you don't cover that hole, you'll probably drop a wrist pin clip in the crankcase working on it"..... There are even companies that make a cover out of plastic that your rod end pokes thru the center of the plastic sheet and it covers the rest of the crank case cylinder base opening to keep things like gasket scrapings, debris, and piston ring pieces or wrist pin clips out of the cases.

I stuff mine with a shop rag, vacuum and then pull the rag when done, but I've also "masked off" the hole with duct tape before which works too

ATC King
09-10-2020, 09:39 PM
and I can tell you from my personal experiences and also watching others drop a clip, that it's so common, it should be a Murphy's Law #2106 "if you don't cover that hole, you'll probably drop a wrist pin clip in the crankcase working on it"


Did you know that someone in Arkansas dropped a socket, which lead to an explosion of a missile with a nuclear warhead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Damascus_Titan_missile_explosion

Arky-X
09-11-2020, 09:30 AM
Did you know that someone in Arkansas dropped a socket, which lead to an explosion of a missile with a nuclear warhead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Damascus_Titan_missile_explosion

Grew up about 30min from there. I was about 7 years old when it happened and remember hearing about it but at that age I didn't understand any of it.

Another one in Searcy, AR caught fire killing 53.
http://www.themilitarystandard.com/missile/titan2/accident_373-4.php
This one was caused by an oxy-acetylene cutting torch and welding equipment.


Moral of the story......cover holes and careful with flames and arcs

ironchop
09-11-2020, 09:45 AM
Did you know that someone in Arkansas dropped a socket, which lead to an explosion of a missile with a nuclear warhead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Damascus_Titan_missile_explosion

I saw a YouTube video on that last year.... The History Guy channel. He makes great short videos on stuff

It will take alot of duct tape and shop rags to cover a missile silo 😁

AdamA
09-11-2020, 11:55 AM
Thanks for all the help man i do appreciate it. I think I'm just gonna let it sit for the next month I'm in the middle of moving then I'll have a huge garage to be able to take my time and go through it there way i should.