'97 TRX200D Type II

[Gabriel]

Buddy of mine has been running this machine for several years with no issues ...and then it quit. LOL

I've managed to (barely) get it to start a few times but it quits no sooner than it starts.
I'm getting intermittent fire. Replaced with a known good coil. New plug. It'll fire ...sometimes. I cannot for the LIFE of me get someone to sell a CDI that actually works. All 2+4 pin CDI's are not swappable but you can't seem to convince online sellers....I've tried three different places that guarantee it'll work for this machine. They are all wrong. When you plug it up the reverse light immediately comes on. ...no, that's not right.

I replaced the carburetor for sheets and giggles...nada.

It's never been hacked or bubba'd....all nice factory everything except the ignition switch, which was replaced several months before it quit. Every function on the machine works and did BEFORE, so I doubt it's the culprit.

Any suggestions would be most welcome. Thanks as always.

[ATC King]

How about a picture of that strange beast...

https://massfxtires.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/1991_honda_trx200d_fourtrax_2.jpg?itok=6rYExfcE

I remember when those were on the sales floor.

[Gabriel]

Despite it's current state, it's actually a very nice machine.

https://i.imgur.com/LleVvSg.jpg

[Gabriel]

The weekend BEFORE it quit, this was outrunning me top to bottom; 83 200E w/ 200X topend & 1.5 exhaust. I could stay on his heels through 2nd but halfway through 3rd he was pulling away.

[Gabriel]

How about a picture of that strange beast...

https://massfxtires.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/1991_honda_trx200d_fourtrax_2.jpg?itok=6rYExfcE

I remember when those were on the sales floor.

Yeah, I'm just not digging that caboose thing.

[Gabriel]

It's worth mentioning the last CDI I ordered actually did make a spark but leaves the reverse light on all the time. Which, as 'Fixer pointed out to me, is probably just the way the lazy chinese factory has the ground routed inside the box.
If it were MY machine, I might let it go, but it's not.

Sucks you cannot get good replacement parts without jumping through 10 miles of hoops and red tape.

[shortline10]

I always give the clause “no guarantees when dealing with discontinued electrical components “



It's worth mentioning the last CDI I ordered actually did make a spark but leaves the reverse light on all the time. Which, as 'Fixer pointed out to me, is probably just the way the lazy chinese factory has the ground routed inside the box.
If it were MY machine, I might let it go, but it's not.

Sucks you cannot get good replacement parts without jumping through 10 miles of hoops and red tape.

[ATC King]

It's worth mentioning the last CDI I ordered actually did make a spark but leaves the reverse light on all the time. Which, as 'Fixer pointed out to me, is probably just the way the lazy chinese factory has the ground routed inside the box.

If it's running with that CDI, but the reverse light is on, maybe you can get around it by installing a LED bulb in the reverse light or a diode in the circuit.

That would solve a power feedback issue, if that's all it is.

It's kind of the same idea on motorcycles that only have one turn signal indicator on the dash. If LED bulbs are used in the signals, sometimes they'll stay on because the regular bulbs lets power go both ways. Other times the dash bulb won't work right and a diode has to be used. Either way, when there's a feedback issue in the system, a diode or LED bulb may fix it. A LED is a diode, it just depends on how everything is wired and which way the diode can/needs to flow to solve the issue.

Many motorcycles with neutral/kickstand starter interrupt systems have at least one diode in the system to make everything work, otherwise there'd be feedback in the system. You may want to check the wiring on that ATV for something similar. Make sure that didn't go out.

[Gabriel]

I got it to spark...It never actually RAN. The time or three it's actually tried to start, it just shuts back down. I've gone through every connection involved and will do it again. A wet plug on an engine that is mechanically means crap spark or ??? I even pulled the exhaust looking for an obstruction. Not that.

[shortline10]

A fresh spark plug and starting fluid will be easier to diagnose if it’s spark or carburetor .

[ATC King]

A lot of people have done the Chinese CDI dance. Even ones that are reported to work can be hit or miss between shipments.

If you buy from EBay, most sellers are pretty good at quickly refunding a non-functional unit. That's of little consolation though, when you have to wait for the slow shipping this year, then it's a dud.

A lot of people poo-poo on having to dish out the dinero for a OEM CDI, but if one's available, stop the Chinese fire drill and just go with it.

Another option, albeit also relatively expensive, is a programmable aftermarket CDI. They're available for AC and DC systems, but more so for DC. There are several companies that offer them for single cylinder engines; none of them are given away.

A programmable unit on a machine like that is kind of a waste, but if it has a programmable rev limiter, that makes it good for younger or inexperienced riders.



On how that guy ran before the issue, even the new 250cc 2x4 Honda quads are excellent for the money. Way better ride than any of the hardtail trikes and much faster. For most trail riding, they're more than enough machine.

[Gabriel]

If I can find an OEM one, we'd likely go that route...

BikeBandit has this....but I have to wonder if it's not the same exact chinese junk I've already tried...just a different color and bigger price.
https://www.bikebandit.com/aftermarket-parts/electrical/cdi-rev-boxes/rick-s-motorsport-electric-hot-shot-series-cdi-box/p/15211?m=151536

[Shep1970]

Definelty buy an oem if u can, that trx200d is the same or very close engine design as the trx200sx reverse light/switch and wiring. You can easily find used oem. Not as cheap as Chinese junk though. That topend is the same as 86-87 200x and fatcat too, just a couple very small changes.
A 86-88 trx200sx cdi is your best chance i'd think.edit: Or a used trx200d one.

shep

[Gabriel]

Got the CDI from Ricks. It was firing...for a few seconds. Engine started and bam, shut back down. Nothing now. Ran for all of 3 seconds.
I've pull the rear plastics for easier access to the harness. Regulator checks within spec. Coil works on another machine.
Neutral and reverse switches are functioning properly. With the plug out (so it's easier to turn over) the CDI is getting about 50 some odd volts AC while the starter is turning. I don't know how much it should be putting out. A bad stator would explain everything.

I hate wiring/electrical issues.

The guy that owns the machine has written it off for junk and has set out to buy something else. In his disgust....he gave me this one. Now I can pull things apart with impunity.

[Gabriel]

Well, I found the problem. I just don't know how to fix it yet.
The reverse lockout switch applies ground to the harness to keep you from starting in reverse. ..problem is, I'm still getting ground when it's unplugged at the pigtail. Somewhere there's some kind of short. I can make the engine run by running a jumper from the hot coming into the switch to the "hot when key on" wire at the regulator.
Engine ran really rough but that could be something totally unrelated.. It ran, and started back on demand.
I don't like running it with the regulator unplugged and rigged up jumper wire but at least I know something I didn't before.


Here's a little something too....I just went back on a whim and tried the OEM cdi, and it rans smooth as silk. Plugged the Ricks and it is rough as a cobb. Won't rev...the timing is way off on this. I am NOT knocking Ricks at all. They shipped it out fast and friendly but it is not good.

Very thankful to be wrong. Now I have to root through everything and find the ground that's bad. Gonna be fun too, sometimes it's grounded sometimes not. Hopefully a skinned or burned wire somewhere.

[ATC King]

Gonna be fun too, sometimes it's grounded sometimes not. Hopefully a skinned or burned wire somewhere.

Sometimes you just have to remove and unwrap the harness to find the problem. I've actually had wires inside the tape on the harness that the insulation had split. I guess they split from age. The most problematic area is usually where the harness goes to the handlebars. That section flexes a lot, whereas other parts of the harness are static.


As far as the CDIs go, if you could throw a timing light on it and see if the Ricks has a fixed timing, versus the OEM being curved, that would shed some light on it. The quad you're working on doesn't have a mechanical advance, so the CDI should take care of that. I know a lot of the Chinese aftermarket CDIs don't even have enough circuitry to produce a timing curve, they're just fixed. OEM or programmable aftermarket are the two best options for a CDI. Everything else is a crapshoot.

[Gabriel]

This is really pissing me off. Before I cut the harness, I detailed every pigtail and got the contacts good and clean....yeah, shoulda done that earlier....AND I thought I had solved my problem. It started firing with everything hooked up. Started...ran for a while, then wuhhh....and dead. No fire.

If the black wire at the switch gets ground from any of it's points, it stops firing. If I unplug the regulator and the switch, run a jumper wire from red at the switch to black at the regulator, it will make a spark as hot as anyone could ever ask for. Starts up and runs like a champ. It will also KEEP running if you unplug the jumper wire.

I hate wiring. It's very bad for my internal peace and balance. LOL!




https://i.imgur.com/uWs3n5B.png

[ATC King]

Even though it may be frustrating, I hope you can stay grounded.

[ATC King]

Have you done a wiggle test? That may help you find the problem without removing the harness.

There are times that wires are broken, but have a strand or two intact. If checked with a multimeter, they'll show continuity, but they won't carry current. A wiggle test may also reveal shorted wires.

A cheap way to do it is use a battery and test light. Hook the negative to one end of the wire being tested, and the test light to the other, then wiggle all the harness in different spots (turn bars side to side too). No light means a bad wire, even if the multimeter says otherwise. Bad part is have to keep looking at the test light, to see if it flashes. An audible device that sounds when it looses connection makes a wiggle test simpler, but it needs to be one that applies enough current.

The wiggle test will always be a diagnostic method as long as vehicles have wiring.


An example of where this is especially notable is when 70's-80's GM vehicles used solid aluminum wire for the rear harness. It worked fine, until the insulation was compromised and moisture was allowed in. The aluminum wire would corrode until a taillight stopped functioning. If checked with a test light, the wire shown as bad (why a test light is still a functional tool in the modern era), but if checked with a multimeter, it showed continuity. I've built several harnesses with copper wire to replace those, even on cars where it wasn't bad yet, because they all will be at some point. The bright colored, translucent insulation on that aluminum wire is pretty though.