nick berg

[threewheelin-feelin]

u know this was very terrable thing to watch if i had any idea how i would reacted i wouldnt have watched it. i reall was ok while watching it. after i shut the computer down and went to watch tv i just started feeling bad and sick. but i think we were right to go over thesee ****ers would have just came over here what do yall think.

[leprogle]

I downloaded it and watched it too, what a bunch of sick f***s. I don't even think he realized that was what they were going to do. It was disturbing hearing him screaming when they knocked him over, and then continued for a while during the hacking. and then they held up his head proudly, like a trophy, it was disgusting.
I think they should just go nuke them. anyone who would do something like that is a disgrace to mankind, and doesn't deserve to live.
that's just my opinion, anyway

[TimSr]

Its interesting to note that the leader of this group of trash who actually committed the murder has been identified by voice analysis as a high ranking Al-Qaida operative. Berg was abducted in Iraq. Abu Nidal was bumped off early in the war, living in Iraq. He was also a high ranking Al-Qaida member wanted for among other things, shooting an old man in a wheelchair and throwing him overboard in the hijacking of an Italian cruise boat in the '80's. Journalist Danny Pearl was also abducted in Iraq and beheaded, murdered in the same way as Berg, with the same group of Al-Qaida suspected. Yet Bush critics maintain that there is "no link" between A-Qaida and the toppled Iraqi regime.

Its also interesting to note that Mustard Gas was discovered in an improvised explosive device, and Sarin Gas was discovered in one today.

Maybe Sen. Kennedy should just shut the hell up and not run his mouth about things he knows nothing about. John Kerry should properly train his attack dogs before turning them loose on the public.

[trikerider2oo7]

i saw it too...very disgusting to think that people could do that to someone else. it made me feel sick

[Billy Golightly]

I have not personally watched the video (I have no intention to, I'd liable to go enlist as close as I am to doing it now) But I have to agree....anyone who wonders why we're there and what our purpose is, should watch that video.

[threewheelin-feelin]

well alot of ppl were against the wwar i dont like war either no one dos. but these f's would have just came over here and ran some more plains into places and droped bombs. im glade were over there trying to stop them and stand behind bush 101%

[J.D.]

Something you people seem to be neglecting is what we've found out what our soldiers have been doing to the Iraqi prisoners. Now I'm not trying to defend these Ragheads, but what's so different with them beheading one of our soldiers vs. the nasty trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro our troops are doing to there POW's? Now I haven't seen this Nick Berg video, but I did see some pictures of the bullshit our troops are putting the Iraqi's through, and I tell you what, I wanted to puke when I saw that bullshit because it was completely and utterly ridiculous.

[Billy Golightly]

It is one thing to have a picture of womens underwear on your head circulating on national TV.

It is another to have your head cut off while your still alive with a dull knife, and then held up infront of a camera by the hair. Or how about getting your head blown off with a pistol infront of the camera execution style?

I could be wrong, but to my knowledge no iraqi POWs had anything hurt but their pride.

[J.D.]

Actually the reports I heard off NBC news were saying there were pictures/video of our soldiers leading them around on chains, making them perform homosexual acts on each other, making them perform unnatural acts(I can only imagine what that means), and tying them up and beating them unmercifully. I did see one picture for sure, a POW was on the floor and 3 or 4 of our soldiers were around him beating the trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro out of him.

[Honda1986ATC350X]

yea, but they are still alive though

[Rod]

I agree with you Honda1986ATC350X, If Nick Berg had the choice I am sure he would have taken any beating they would dish out.

[TimSr]

Actually the reports I heard off NBC news were saying there were pictures/video of our soldiers leading them around on chains, making them perform homosexual acts on each other, making them perform unnatural acts(I can only imagine what that means), and tying them up and beating them unmercifully. I did see one picture for sure, a POW was on the floor and 3 or 4 of our soldiers were around him beating the trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro out of him.

All I can say is a lot of native Iraqis have got to be laughing their arses off at we Americans call "torturing prisoners". 90% of what you have cited is thus far, unsubstantiated rumors.

Aside from the obvious difference between humiliating somebody who has killed your buddies or tried to kill you, and sawing the head off an innocent civilian while they are alive and screaming, which you seem to equate, you left out the other important difference. The American military began an investigation within 24 hours of the first reported complaint. News of this investigation was released to the world media within a few days. (which most chose to ignore until the pictures came) The guilty American soldiers have been condemned by the American public and criminally charged. They will be prosecuted. More charges are on the way. It violates US policy.

The murdering butchers that sawed a civilian's head off while he was screaming were cheered by their leaders. They purposely chose a civilian because they are cowards who are no match for even our soldiers who are 19 year old girls. Targeting defenseless civilians and murdering them in the cruelest possible fashion while filming it is their policy.

If you cant tell the difference I suggest you enlist as an MP so you can over there and show your kindness to the murdering savages who would rather fight your grandmothers and baby sisters than American soldiers. And when they blow up your buddies along with a few Iraqi children who got in the way with an RPG, before they are caught and brought to you to watch over, make sure you keep a smile, and good manners when you address them in your prison.

Personally, i think it takes the utmost of ignorance to have the two situations in the same discussion. Its like comparing freshman wedgies to the Columbine killings.

[J.D.]

I am totally shocked and appaled you people are just brushing off Iraqi soldier abuse. We over there to stop that trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro, and yet it goes on. I refuse to fight this war because it is just another Vietnam, all these politicians feel so strongly about it, go fight it yourselves mother****ers.

[84250r]

Goku,maybe you should watch the video for yourself. I think you would have a different feeling watching your own get killed. I also think that you look way to much into the media,i.e. news as you would call it.

[Muddy200x]

I'm still waiting for the Ku Klux Klan to produce a video in retaliation.

I'm sure they would come up with something better than homo humiliation torture. :Evil

[TimSr]

I am totally shocked and appaled you people are just brushing off Iraqi soldier abuse. We over there to stop that trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro, and yet it goes on. I refuse to fight this war because it is just another Vietnam, all these politicians feel so strongly about it, go fight it yourselves mother****ers.

Im brushing it off because its a petty non issue being overblown and embellished in a media that would like us to fail. It deserves one 10 minute spot on the nightly news, and thats about it. Out of 275,000 American troops, 7 of them were not able to exercise control and good judgement and were abusive in dealing with a handful of killers. Thats news? You havent a clue as to what WAR is. I challenge you to find just one former POW of any conflict who loses sleep over this. I challenge you to find one US soldier who has been there that will validate the picture CBS news has painted of the situation there. You havent a clue as to what Viet Nam was. Aside from the fact that we had soldiers fighting, can you name one specific similarity? I can tell you all the differences, if you are open to hear them. Its not wise to parrot slogans from the "Kerry for President" campaign if you can validate them with fact. Can you tell me anything specific and factual about Viet Nam? Who brought us in, who we fought, why we fought, how many died, and why we failed, who brought us out? And while youre criticising those fighting in a war you would never fight and explaining how they should act and feel in circumstances you cant comprehend, you might want to remember, none of them were drafted, and that each and every one of them volunteered to serve in the military, and that since the war started, enlistment and re-enlistemnt has drastically increased so you wont ever have to. You can sit in safety of your home and criticise 275,000 Americans as being brutal and cruel because 7 of them replaced diapers with underwear on poor innocent murderer's heads, while ignoring the fact that domestic US prisions have much higher abuse rates. Do you have any clue why these guys are in a POW prison and how many thousands we are holding?

Theres nothing wrong with taking a conciencious position, but it should be after thorough research of all the known facts, and in the proper context, relative to the big picture. I feel contempt for Kennedy and Kerry, because they blatantly make false statements they they KNOW are false. Im cutting you slack because yours are made out of ignorance, and you are simply parroting what you have heard from these liars. They know better, but they rely on public ignorance due to laziness to do real research for support. I dont believe anyone could possibly view a wide array of the facts and discussions from all sides with an open mind, and make such statements. Ask yourself a simple question. Had we not gone in, and left Hussein in power, during the past year, would more people or less people have been tortured and/or murdered? How many people would you guess Hussein's people tortured and killed on a daily basis? If he got a chance to kill a few thousand Americans in one shot, do you think he would have done it? If he could supply the techincal expertise to another group to do it, do you think he would have? Berg went over to work in setting up Iraqi civilian communications. He was "being nice". If we packed up and left tomorrow, what do you think would happen? Ask the Iraqi Kerds what happened last time we packed up and left before finishing the job. How much less valuable are the lives of good Iraqi civilians? How many of them is it acceptable to you to watch be slaughtered to save an American soldier? Is it okay to walk away and allow the massacre of a few thousand if it prevents the deaths of 100 Americans? What number do you feel is acceptable? Thank God our soldiers making the sacrifices feel differently. If somebody gave you a couple hundred aspirin bottles, and gave you 2 months to hide them where the US military could not find them, do you think you could do it successfully? That charaterizes the search for WMD's.

Yes, people with a little common sense do feel strongly that if we dont do this, the US will become another Israel, where a daily bus bomb killing a dozen people isnt even news. It does cost the lives of American soldiers to be able to take public transportation in your own country without wondering if you or those around you will be blown up each time you do. Its a very high price to pay for our freedoms. If you believe its not worth it, as yourself what you believe will be the price be if we choose not to pay it? Everyone who supports this war from the president all the way down to me, does so because we believe that while it is costing lives, it is saving far, far more.

[threewheelin-feelin]

i am behind this war it will change things it has allready made it better and things will get even better.

[smokinwrench]

Perfectly stated TimSr

[3 weelin geezer]

Of you guys that saw that video, who thinks its authentic meaning that he was killed there? It looks to me like it was kinda staged. like they killed him elsewhere then doctored the actual murder video footage to make it look like he was still alive when they chopped off his head. Suspects fight more when they are being handcuffed (and not going to get killed) than the person on the video even after they cut his throat. Now, I never have met the guy and it did make me feel really sad that there are such cowardly individuals who hide behind masks that would actually do something like that to 'get even' but it still smacks of a national political agenda of some sort. I have seen actual police videos of people that got killed in crashes (one really near my house ) and you don't see any of that being televised to discourage speeding or drinking and driving. I think it might work because it is pretty disgusting but it is not in good taste to show it. I would hate to be the one to pick up afterwards.

[VABCH350X]

Though I do not normally partake in any kind of arguments or debates on these forums, as an active duty military member who has served abroad in both Operations Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom, I felt a strong desire to weigh in on this topic. Fortunately, Tim has said everything my heart ached to say and more.

I would like to advise you all that while deployed in recent years I have had the opportunity to witness a great many things first hand. I have also had the opportunity, on occasion, to view news reports and correspondence. The best advice I can offer for Americans is to form their opinions through knowledge, experience, logic, and most importantly faith in our nation and troops. Though everyone is entitled to their own opinion, (and we will continue to fight to protect it) it is crucial to remember that the media is not an educator.

[J.D.]

Tim I can't answer all of your questions because I wasn't there, but I know that Vietnam took the lives of many, many of our soldiers and for what? The reason we failed, is that we didn't listen to one Generals strategy, which was to start at one border, and completely go across the country spreading out as we went, that's the only way to fight a guerilla war and Nam wasn't fought like that. We shouldn't have been there in the first place, America needs to worry about AMERICA before it goes trying to solve other peoples problems. We have too many problems here: Drugs, Education, Homelessness, etc to worry about than taking care of other people who could give a trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro less about us, and wouldn't piss in our mouths if it was on fire. Alot of my opinion is based on talking with ex-Military people from WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. I haven't talked with one vet who supported this war, or Vietnam, and they say both are deathtraps. Tim you talk about research, but really, what option do we have other than the "media"? Have you gone over there and asked these people what the truth is? If you haven't, then really, we can't say what our government is telling us is true. Are we actually going to believe what our corrupt government tells us about something? I don't trust any of these government basterds as far as I can throw them, or any reports they give me.

[Jeb]

Of you guys that saw that video, who thinks its authentic meaning that he was killed there? It looks to me like it was kinda staged. like they killed him elsewhere then doctored the actual murder video footage to make it look like he was still alive when they chopped off his head....


That's kind of what I think. I have not seen the video because I didn't want to see:

#1, the poor guy struggle for his life and screaming in agony. and #2, all the blood involved in removing a head.

But, I've talked to people who've seen it and read a few commentaries that lead me to think that he was already dead when they went to cutting. I know the video is poor quality but there is an obvious absence of blood and struggle. Couple that with the fact that Al Zaqarwi is claimed to be a poison expert and there is an 11 hour lapse on the video timer from when they are reading their statements to when they actually start to be-head him. I figured that there would be some experts that would come forward and be on the record as saying that he was already dead. But so far, all I've heard about is speculation. And again, I have not seen the video myself or even listened to the audio.

Regardless of whether he was alive or dead, it was still a savage act. They murdered him regardless. All the time screaming "God is good, God is great".

I hear some good stories form Iraq on a local AM talk radio show I listen to on the way home every day. They come from local soldiers and contractors who call in to the shows. They are dissapointed by the media focusing on the negative and talk of rebuilding schools, getting clean water, electricity, and air conditioning to people who never had it before, setting up local governments, and that most of the Iraqi people are grateful for the liberation and look forward to running their own country.

But I think the Iraqi people need to rise up and stomp out these radical Islamic terrorist groups on their own to send a message that they will not tollerate them any longer.

And if you think that we are in no danger from them, think again. Look at what the savages did to an American with a knife. Imagine what they could do with a chemical or a nuclear weapon. Thats why we need to fight terrorism at the source. And not on our streets and in our citys.

God Bless our Troops!

[hondaATCman]

Actually the reports I heard off NBC news were saying there were pictures/video of our soldiers leading them around on chains, making them perform homosexual acts on each other, making them perform unnatural acts(I can only imagine what that means), and tying them up and beating them unmercifully. I did see one picture for sure, a POW was on the floor and 3 or 4 of our soldiers were around him beating the trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro out of him.

LOL, good.

I think that all these people (Iraq, Afghanistan)are pretty much raised to kill just like farmers breed animals to eat. Everyone over here is giving so much mercy for these people like they haven't done anything wrong, and I hate that. Mental images are stuck in our heads of the poor, dirty settings of Iraq but we think of the people in American ways. For example, here in the states a person might raise their son/daughter to run the family business but they don't HAVE to if they don't want to. Over there, a couple raise their son/daughter to BLOW people up, and they HAVE to do it. They know from the time they can understand words that they are going to die killing other people and they are ok with that. They are so dumb and unorganized, words can't explain. They have no education or future to look forward too, just fighting and blowing things up. I've saw the beheading video and its funny how Americans can still raise hell about the "abusive treatings" of the POW's after an innocent construction worker just got his head cut off :eek: :Evil and I'm not talking about a gilotine style beheading where its quick and easy and painless, they kicked him over, held him down and went to town on his neck with pretty much a butter knife. They sawed his head off, not chopped. I just hope other Iraqi lovers understand this.

[cyclepsycho]

Tim I can't answer all of your questions because I wasn't there, but I know that Vietnam took the lives of many, many of our soldiers and for what? The reason we failed, is that we didn't listen to one Generals strategy, which was to start at one border, and completely go across the country spreading out as we went, that's the only way to fight a guerilla war and Nam wasn't fought like that. We shouldn't have been there in the first place, America needs to worry about AMERICA before it goes trying to solve other peoples problems. We have too many problems here: Drugs, Education, Homelessness, etc to worry about than taking care of other people who could give a trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro less about us, and wouldn't piss in our mouths if it was on fire. Alot of my opinion is based on talking with ex-Military people from WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. I haven't talked with one vet who supported this war, or Vietnam, and they say both are deathtraps. Tim you talk about research, but really, what option do we have other than the "media"? Have you gone over there and asked these people what the truth is? If you haven't, then really, we can't say what our government is telling us is true. Are we actually going to believe what our corrupt government tells us about something? I don't trust any of these government basterds as far as I can throw them, or any reports they give me.


I have been trying to stay away from this thread but I just can't do it anymore. everything you have been stating is such a bunch of useless pussy-talk. Man strap on your balls and get a well thought out and researched opinion. Do ever think for yourself or do you just follow along where you are lead. It is on thing to be controversial but at least try and sound like you have a modicum of common sense.

America needs to solve America's problems before trying to solve other people's problems eh? You, the American people don't want to hear the real solutions to the problems facing this country. You want to be hugged and placated and told it is not your fault. We have hunger here in America. What should we do about it? The real answer is to elliminate Welfare, but do you think the people on welfare want to hear that? Wouldn't it be refreshing if a politition were to tell the truth: "The reason we have hungry children in America is that we have lazy parents." It will never happen. Here is a scenario: I wanted to teach my son a little business sense so I told him he could use my lawn epquipment to make a little extra money this summer. He got off his ass and went door to door and got twenty folks in my subdivision to let him cut their lawns. He is charging an average of twenty-five dollars each (the competition is charging a lot more). Here is a nine year old boy working 3 days a week making five hundred dollars a week. That is the answer to eliminating hunger in America. Work. I formed an LLC for him. He is nine years old, has his own company, and will make over twenty thousand dollars this year. If he can do it why can't everyone else? Since we have now solved all the problems in America, can we go abroad and help others?


As far as research goes, you are logged on to one of the best research tools available. skip all the B.S. political pages and go for some of the hard-core journalistic pages.

As far as the media; When you say that you don't believe anything the government said, I thought maybe we were about to hear a coherent thought, but then you followed with (paraphrased) who can we turn to but the media. My response is a resounding "ANYONE ELSE!!!!" case in point: Remember all the media hype about the "razor blade in the apple"? Do you know how many incidents were recorded at hospitals across the country during that fiasco? NONE. It was a total media rush, a rumor turned into fact by an idiot reporter who, like you, did no research. Carefully watch the news one night and count how many times they say the suspect was a white man when they are talking about a white suspect, and how many times the will bring out that the suspect is black or hispanic. there are so many cases to site that I would use up the allowable space on this forum. One other thing, your history lesson about Viet Nam is distorted. the only thing less reliable than the media is an accedemic history book.

When I watch the news, it is with a critical eye and I always question what they are NOT telling me. DADS brought up some very valid points but I must admit it was a bit jaded with emotion. There can be no faulting him however, because it is something he professes to know at least something about, and he obviously feels very strong about it. You however are parroting what you hear on the TV and radio with nary a thought as to its validity. Please don't do that, we have all heard the same nonsense you have on the media and you are just foolishly redundant.

Sorry for the tirade but you deserved it. Now go out, borrow twenty-five cents and buy a clue.

[threewheelin-feelin]

u have to understand that we cant solve r own problem when were worrying about some crazy sum bitchs from iraq or afganistan flying a plain in to r towers. or worrying about them bombing us wich if there crazy to kill there own ppl for no reason and kill there selves to kill other i have no doubt they will do it again. so we need to get it straight over there then work on r own problems.