Life prior to the early 70s SUCKED BIG TIME!

[jmsmilin]

Because there were no:

1. ATCs (when was the first one?)
2. Honda Civics (not until 1973)
3. NO INTERNET

these are things I cant live without. No wonder why there were so many hippie drug users.

Actually this brings me to a good question, when was the first ATC, and the first ATV? It was a Honda Im sure.

[mad_max]

First ATC: The ATC 90, introduced in 1970.

First ATV: The Model T, Introduced 1908

[thefox]

Back in 1969 the Honda US 90 came out (1970 model) as the first real ATV, the US was swaped to ATC in '71.
http://powersports.honda.com/Motorcycle_DCTM/Milestone/Images/MM_1970_US90_cycle.jpg

[jmsmilin]

"...the US was swaped to ATC in '71" huh?

So when was the first 4 wheeler then?

Mad max did you know that you could have the Model-T in any color you want, (as long as it was black)?

[rob0781]

Because there were no:

1. ATCs (when was the first one?)
2. Honda Civics (not until 1973)
3. NO INTERNET

these are things I cant live without. No wonder why there were so many hippie drug users.

Actually this brings me to a good question, when was the first ATC, and the first ATV? It was a Honda Im sure.
well i love atc's and the internet but i could still live without a civic around there too many of them gettin sick of seein them..

[400ccHomemade]

I believe drag racing was far cooler in the 60's 70's than now. Sure they are amazingly fast now, but back then the cars were actually different from each other, and also you didn't have to be with a factory to win.

[mad_max]

Mad max did you know that you could have the Model-T in any color you want, (as long as it was black)?.

Yes, but that depends on the year. My brother in-law has a original/restored 1911 T and it is dark blue.


I believe drag racing was far cooler in the 60's 70's than now. Sure they are amazingly fast now, but back then the cars were actually different from each other, and also you didn't have to be with a factory to win.

400ccHomemade, I'm with you on that!!! :beer

[reload]

ok i must say, 3-4 wheelers love them, internet, amazing (just go t my ccna), but hionda civics?? YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING! man i chew up every honda civic and eclipse's with my 1995 k1500. THEY ARE SLOW! go out get get yourself some american muscel! Camaro, mustang, corrvette if you can afford it ANYTHING you live in America BE PROUD OF IT!

[thefox]

"...the US was swaped to ATC in '71" huh?

So when was the first 4 wheeler then?

Mad max did you know that you could have the Model-T in any color you want, (as long as it was black)?

The first quad came about in '83, the Suzuki LT125

http://www.suzuki.com/images/history/1983.jpg

[jmsmilin]

No way, I jsut had that peice of junk and sold it, I think mine was an 84 though, they SUCKED too. Now honda civics rock, 1st gens that is, and trust me, you dont see them like mine. MINE WILL EAT A 5.0, SI etc etc have a look...oh and did I mention I have an RHD kit for it... thats not the original 1200cc 4 banger my friend, thats almost 150HP of tuned VTEC performance in a 78 Civic that weighs just over 2K. BRING ON YOUR CAMARO dude!

[jmsmilin]

engine, here it is

[cliff2302]

since when was a 150 HP alot? i could take out 4 sparkplugs in my nova and still make more than that. lol. but, to each is his own, im just glad that you didn't stick a big mellon shooter muffler on and say it was fast.

[OldSchoolin86]

150 is a lot when you weigh half the weight of a nova ;) lol

[threewheelin-feelin]

well my favorite things in life are 3wheelers classic muscle cars and classic rock music

[cliff2302]

my nova weighs 2200 with full interior and a spare :D

[mad_max]

my nova weighs 2200 with full interior and a spare :D

2200 is super light for a nova w/ full interior.
Took my 66 SS to a grain elevator and weighed it, it was 2950.

Heres a pic

http://www.terraworld.net/mikemax/brtRF34.jpg

[400ccHomemade]

thats almost 150HP of tuned VTEC performance in a 78 Civic
Heheheheheheh........my bug puts out more than that. And it weighs 1600 lbs.

[250rBeast]

Heheheheheheh........my bug puts out more than that. And it weighs 1600 lbs.

You're right about the volkswagons, they are capable of very low Et's. They are so light and the right person can definately create a 9 second monster out of one. I know because I have several friends who raced them all over at bakersfield, Vallejo, Ca. blowing mostly anything away including the import sport compacts. Weight is what holds a car down, torque launches it. Combine high torque with a light vehicle and you may have something. Mostly the problem with the high revving sport compacts is that they lack the torque, I'm talking naturally aspirated here; and not that I don't like imports because I love my RSX-type S. You can create a fast compact car, it just takes alot of skilled labor and MONEY.

[400ccHomemade]

12.95 baby. :twisted:

[OldSchoolin86]

my nova weighs 2200 with full interior and a spare :D
I highly doubt it!

[Billy Golightly]

Dont mess with diesel...you'll get burnt :D


http://www.krylonracing.com/pace/Notplayinggames.mpg

This is not a 2200lb car either, this is a 5,000lb or better truck that is not exactly aerodynamic making a flat 11 second run :-)

[cliff2302]

nice nova mad max. 64's were smaller than 66-7's. ther were one of the first family/compact cars. they didn't even offer a V8 until 64, so the cars were made to be pushed by 4 and 6 bangers. they are light cars. i took mine to the local grain mill and thats what the scale said. it could have been off, but thats where i got my number from.

[83200e]

jmsmilin,
You need to ride in a big block chevy one day and you'll never look at your Honda the
same way again.Even though I hate imports,I have to admit it's a good looking car.
(for a honda) Ha.

[AZ250R]

engine, here it is
WHAT, NO TURBO!?!?! Just Kidd'n man, great look'n import!!!

[350x'inNY]

I love my Subaru... not a WRX, but I needed the 2-dr! 2000 2.5RS Coupe 165HP, AWD - 4 wheel Anti-Locks

It doesn't hug the corners.... it molest's them!!!

Now if they only made the WRX STi in a 2 door... :twisted:

hahhahaha

Bruce

[AZ250R]

Now if they only made the WRX STi in a 2 door... :twisted:
Bruce
Or tha EVO for that matter, I mean they are both so.... SEDANish in looks!?!?!

But when U can run a sub 5sec 0-60 STOCK in a 2.0l, I guess it don't really matter what it looks like. :p

[threewheelin-feelin]

HOLY CRAP!!!!! thats a nice nova

[Yardbird]

I can see the reasoning behind numbers 1 and 2 but a Honda Civic? Plus if you never had or seen the above mentioned. Then how can you miss them in the first place?

Now pass that blunt over this way and we'll ponder what else we can't do without. :cool:

[Kook]

Nah, it didn't suck, we just did different things! We had the internet, it was just called the library back then. LOL Back then there were a LOT of dirt bikes around, my friends and I all had them, then from about 72 or 73 on, it wasn't uncommon to see an X or R on a snowmobile trailer w/a dirt bike during the summer and when the snow flew, the bike came off and a sled went on. Guys also made a lot of VW bug conversions into open body racers as well. Seems like now days (around here anyway) it's all about 4-wheelers. It doesn't snow enough anymore to justify a sled and kids just don't want to ride a dirt bike or 3-wheeler. Kind of sad if you ask me. I'd rather be my age now in the 70s than these days. If I'd have been 30(ish) in the 70s, I'd have had a BLAST! I'm sure some of the other "older" guys on here can vouch for me, we didn't miss anything because we didn't know any better.

[cliff2302]

im only 20, but i would give my left nut to be my age in the early 60s. you could build your own dragster and be competitive in national events with a job at a gas station. there were so many more oportunities back then. now, you have to spend $50K to get an education at a state school so you can get a job starting at $35k. it just doesn't make any sense.

[reload]

My 1995 K1500 wheighs in at a nice 5300LBS! and you were braggin about 150HP! YOU GO TO BE KIDDING ME!
For what my truck losses in wheight, it makes up for in good old raw AMERICAN power! were talking almost 400HP, 4-spd auto with a stage-2 B&M shift kit. and to top it off 3.73'S POSI, i am sorry but your little rice grinder will not keep up with a real american musscle car or engine.

[OldSchoolin86]

What did you do to get 400hp?

[reload]

BAsicly, vortec style heads, edlerbrock TBI performer vortec stlye intake. hypertech power programer, cold air intake, edlerbrock TES headers, boarded the TBI, TBI spacer, and TBI pod spacer. Forged pistons. that gives me right at 396HP at the flywheel (so i rounded up, sorry) and about 325 at the rear wheels, the fastest i have ever ran was a 12.79 in the 1/4 at 110MPH. and there a a few other little odds and ends.

[OldSchoolin86]

So you accualy have 325. Nice

[reload]

No i actually have an engine that has a 400 (396) HP output.

[200x Basket]

http://paradox.shacknet.nu/dave88lx/CD04/satistraction_trailer.jpg my stang is 700HP and weighs 2450. :) i ran a 9.97 at 133mph last week. oh, it is street legal.

[83200e]

No i actually have an engine that has a 400 (396) HP output.

Have you put that thing on a dyno yet?

[reload]

not a drum dyno, just one off the flywheel after i rebuilt it about a year ago

[rob0781]

http://paradox.shacknet.nu/dave88lx/CD04/satistraction_trailer.jpg my stang is 700HP and weighs 2450. :) i ran a 9.97 at 133mph last week. oh, it is street legal.
my all time favorite car foxbody stangs rock i had a 89 lx 5.0 5spd it was pretty much stock but even stock there a fun summer daily driver....i sold it before last winter and this spring i regretted it ,it was getting nice and it woulda been about time to bring it out but instead i got to drive my stupid focus which i got to drive all winter too.. :mad: :mad: :mad: i need another street toy..

[cliff2302]

if its street legal why is it on a trailer? lol, j/k. i'm not a ford fan myself but those are impressive numbers, and it looks mostly stock. what a sleeper. Reload runs a good time too considering what he started with.

[200x Basket]

it is on a trailer because it was 500 miles from home. even if the track is only 5 miles away i will use a trailer. there is just to much to break at that HP level.

[daveds50]

No way, I jsut had that peice of junk and sold it, I think mine was an 84 though, they SUCKED too. Now honda civics rock, 1st gens that is, and trust me, you dont see them like mine. MINE WILL EAT A 5.0, SI etc etc have a look...oh and did I mention I have an RHD kit for it... thats not the original 1200cc 4 banger my friend, thats almost 150HP of tuned VTEC performance in a 78 Civic that weighs just over 2K. BRING ON YOUR CAMARO dude!

well... your Civic is an 1980, or an 1981 Civic. ( 82-83 had square headlights ) and that is a second generation civic. weighs about 1670 when stock, but is not hard to get down to 1300-1400 lbs.
came with a 62 hp 1300 cc aluminum block, or 62 hp 1500 cc cast iron block, or a 56 hp 1200 cc in Canada.
that appears to be a D16Z6 engine you have in there. about 112 HP makes it to the wheels. add intake, header, and exhaust, and you can get up to 120 to the wheels with proper tuning.

so how do i know so much about it ? i've been SCCA corner racing Hondas for the past 14 years, and my second race car was a 82 civic 1300. ( my first was an 88 5.0 mustang ) for that matter, even my shifter karts are Honda CR powered.

but no, i diddnt start racing in 1990... i actually started drag racing in 1976 ( now im showing my age... ) with a 67 SS 396 Chevelle. had a 70 Chevelle with a 427 transplant in it, ( not a Yenko ) 87, 88, and 89 5.0 Mustangs, a 73 340 4 speed Duster, and a 351 V8 transplanted 72 Pinto.

yup, i've had a lot of cars... im up to vehicle 43 right now. here it is:

http://members.cox.net/daveds50/car/pam_jpg.jpg

no, not your normal 89 civic Si... there is a lot more to it than meets the eye. it is not a street driven car. built for national level SCCA STS class autocrossing, it has been built from the ground up. about 200 hours of development work and tuning. the STS class rules limit the modifications, and no, the engine is not fast in a straght line... 15.77@88.62 mph is the best it has run on the drag strip. however, SCCA is about corners... it can pull 1.03 lateral G's on street tires. ( STS rules, 140 treadwear and up tires ) and is extreamly nimble. yes, the Subaru 2.5 RS runs in my class, no it cannot beat the civic... the 89 civic dominates the class on the national level, and thats exactly why i chose this car to race. ( for that matter, STS usually beats STX class, where the WRX's run )

and yes, the stickers are required, if i want to get paid by the SCCA and Honda. ( STSL, thats my wife driving in the picture )

however, what exactly is an american car ? this argument has come up a lot on the car forums that im on. yeah, the old american iron are USA cars... however...

you guys ought to know that Honda was founded in Hollywood, CA in 1949... is that an american company ? you bet. buy a honda accord, and it was built in OH, civics in CA, my 89 civic was built in Canada, and for that matter, my Toyota Tacoma S-Runner truck was built in Fremont, California by UAW workers.

all my mustangs were built in Mexico, Camaros in Canada, etc.

my personal opinion, is i'll drive anything fast, and i dont care what it is. now that i race corners, i love Z06 Corvettes, and also certain years of Honda civics. as long as it turns awesome lap times, and is nationally competitive, i'll drive it.
dave ( with 7 Hondas in the garage, all run except the 200es )

[Pistonhead]

My 1995 K1500 wheighs in at a nice 5300LBS! and you were braggin about 150HP! YOU GO TO BE KIDDING ME!
For what my truck losses in wheight, it makes up for in good old raw AMERICAN power! were talking almost 400HP, 4-spd auto with a stage-2 B&M shift kit. and to top it off 3.73'S POSI, i am sorry but your little rice grinder will not keep up with a real american musscle car or engine.
No kidding 8 cylinders is where its at, muscle cars are the rice eating import exporters! I'd have to agree with 1 and 2 but civics? civics are like yamaha banshees, they are everywhere, and everyone thinks they are soooo fast, nova/camaro vs civic is like a tecate vs a banshee. Although in a fuel economy competition I'm pretty sure those civics have us beaten.

[daveds50]

My 1995 K1500 wheighs in at a nice 5300LBS! and you were braggin about 150HP! YOU GO TO BE KIDDING ME!
For what my truck losses in wheight, it makes up for in good old raw AMERICAN power! were talking almost 400HP, 4-spd auto with a stage-2 B&M shift kit. and to top it off 3.73'S POSI, i am sorry but your little rice grinder will not keep up with a real american musscle car or engine.

well... think about this. your power to weight ratio is about 16.30 lbs per HP. his is about 13.91 per HP. thats 1670 lbs and 120 HP. ( at the wheels )

so in reality, your power to weight ratio is actually a whole lot less than his civic.

plus... if he used the D16Z6 tranny, he has 4.25:1 final drive, and if he used the original tranny for the car, it's a 4.93:1 final.

my unbiased opinion ? hate to say it, but he would win by a lot. the civic should be in the ballpark of 14 seconds flat with 120 HP. this is based on if he only has an intake, and exhaust on a stock engine. if he has more... well, you know.

when my 5.0 mustangs were stock, they woulddnt do a 14 flat.

now reload... 5300 lbs with 325 hp... your 400 at the flywheel is useless, as vehicles do not run on the flywheel... they all run through the tranny, and differential, and to the tires...

you claim a 12.79@110MPH... hummm... you have just grossly defied physics. do you have any idea what the Silver State Motorsports Ford Lightning ( as seen in Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords ) had to run as far as HP to run a 10.90 ? 4720 lbs 721 HP to the wheels on the Dynojet...

i think if you are not going to be honest, at least be believable... you need at least 500 to the wheels to run that time, and of course, you need drag slicks too. however, with your numbers, it puts you at about a 15 second flat 1/4th mile. about the same as my Toyota truck runs ( 15.07@90.86, stock Toyota Tacoma S-Runner. 181 _wheel_ hp V6 5 speed, 3100 lbs )

since i am sponsored by Silver State, and spend a bit of time there, i am quite used to people who think they have more power than they do... in fact, most people do, and are highly disappointed when they see the real numbers on the dynojet. they added up all their bolt on parts, came up with some outrageous number, and are suprised to see that they dont even have what the car manufacture claims a stock vehicle has... it's what makes it to the wheels that matters.

lets just say that Ford was very generous with my mustangs ratings, and GM was also with the Camaros. the owners are always disapointed. however, we were suprised when my 73 340 4 speed Duster pulled 315 to the wheels, before i even worked on it.

yeah, im an engineer... but also a real racer. have been around the drag strip, road racing, and autocross scene for a long time. i also became an engineer because of my interest in race cars.

yes guys... believe it or not, there are 9 second civics, although with disposable engines... however, i know of quite a few 12 and 13 second ones that are daily drivers...

in fact, just today, i saw a civic do a 262 HP Dynojet pull, naturally asperated, no turbo, no nitrous, and thats in a 2050 lb car. built up, balanced, blueprinted H22A Prelude engine. think you can beat it ? my math says it will run in the mid to high 11's. and thats a street driven daily driver, with full interior.

yeah, in heart, i am an old V8 muscle car guy. if i was going to build another drag car, you bet it would be a V8.

however, like the old hot rodders with the V8 model T's used to rag on us muscle car guys, you guys are doing the same to the new breed of hot rodders. yes, thats exactly what they are.

yes, i do race a civic... but thats tight corner racing. the double wishbone, unequal length suspension arms, and the weight of the 89 civic i race, make it perfect for what i do. that picture in my last post is a 1 G corner, note the lack of body roll and perfect suspension geometry. no it does not push the front end like the general public thinks front wheel drive cars do... it's actually as tail happy as my mustang.

would i drag race one ? nah. i only did it once for curiousity sake. it actually went faster than i thought. 15.77 is pretty good considering the SCCA rules for my class mandate a basically stock engine.

personally, i have to respect what they are doing... it's no different than what i did in the mid 70's. take car, make fast. and i like fast cars. and fast bikes, fast karts and fast trikes... although my 200 es is slow as a rock. :) fast enough for the wife though.

so why all the hate ?

yeah, sure... you can beat up all you want on the 17 second ones with big wings, 18 inch chrome wheels, and boom stereos... i'll even join in. but not all of them are like that. some are actual hot rodders.

pistonhead, re-read my previous post. do you know where Honda was founded ? do you know where they are made ? do you know who is a major shareholder in Mazda ? Toyota ? Mitsubishi ? do you know where they are made ? what exactly is an "Import" car ? the answers may really suprise you.

now... anyone want to race my CR 250 shifter kart ? :) 0 to 100 to 0 in 10.6 seconds... 2.4 lateral G's. it's by far the fastest vehicle i've driven.

dave ( <whos Mustang is more of an Import than my Toyota truck. )

[kryppy]

since when was a 150 HP alot? i could take out 4 sparkplugs in my nova and still make more than that. lol. but, to each is his own, im just glad that you didn't stick a big mellon shooter muffler on and say it was fast.


LMAO, no doubt. I once got a 67 Nova with a six banger in it. We gutted the entire thing and put a 400 small block from a Caprice in it with a powerglide. The only thing scarier than the doors flying open on acceleration was the beer keg full of gas in the back seat. Nothing around here could touch it anyway....ever.

[200x Basket]

now... anyone want to race my CR 250 shifter kart ? :) 0 to 100 to 0 in 10.6 seconds... 2.4 lateral G's. it's by far the fastest vehicle i've driven.

dave ( <whos Mustang is more of an Import than my Toyota truck. )


sure i will. 0-133 mph in about 9.9 7 seconds. on pump gas in a street legal mustang. i just bought a new torque converter and hope to hit some 9.40's this weekend.

BTW. the old converter (on the 9.97 run) was bad and the motor would drive right through it. this is a new combo i am working on :beer