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TexFest
10-02-2004, 10:53 PM
Does anyone here use aluminum arc welding rods on there arc welder?

Are there really any advantages of these aluminum welding rods over TIG welding? Also what about the strengths of both welds?

There must not really be any advantages because I never see anyone ever using them. I'm sure you guys know more than me since I never weld anything.

Let me here your opinions and whatever else you have to share about this subject.

MTS
10-03-2004, 01:38 AM
i got a aluminum welder thing that just plugs into our MIG welder..and tig is wayyy better than arc..so i hear arc is old..lol but uh genrally aluminum rod is used on only aluminum...donst work as well with steel

TexFest
10-03-2004, 03:00 AM
i got a aluminum welder thing that just plugs into our MIG welder..and tig is wayyy better than arc..so i hear arc is old..lol but uh genrally aluminum rod is used on only aluminum...donst work as well with steel

What kind of setup do you have that plugs into your MIG welder? Hoses, cables and torch?

Oh yeah, I forgot to ask something.

Does aluminum arc welding work good on aluminum cases?

I got some cases that need major repair and was wondering if this aluminum arc welding would work and be worth it. I also got some more info on it, it says that makes a strong weld so I don't know. I know you guys know more than me.

md1985250r
10-03-2004, 07:17 AM
There is 2 methods to weld aluminum , that I know of. One is called "heli-arc', the other is called "stick" welding.Either method is going to produce the same result of equal strength. Provided it is done correctly. GREG

MTS
10-03-2004, 04:04 PM
the system for our MIG welder is a power cord i think thats what it is..or somethin like that for the ground it plugs in turn on the mig and the theres a seprate gas bottel and stinger with a small reel of aluminum on it..we dont use it much its mostly for irragation pipes...if i where you i would take the cases and get the TIG welded it looks much better and there is no spatter like a MIG that will wreck the other parts of the cases just my 0.2 cents :D

firebird13601
10-03-2004, 06:41 PM
Tig is much better

Billy Golightly
10-03-2004, 06:41 PM
I didn't know you could arc weld aluminum? Does it have a flux on it? Thats pretty cool if you can.

Personally I use a TIG with Argon as a shield. Its hard but I'm getting the hang of it and I'm starting to get pretty good. When working with aluminum, I gotta stress, clean clean clean clean clean the surface! It should be cleaner then a dish you would want to eat off of. Remove all white or grey oxidation with a course grit sandpaper (60-80) where the surface is pretty shiny. If you dont, everytime you try to weld your metal will turn black and you will not be able to make the aluminum flow at all and your piece you were trying to repair will be in worse shape then when you started.

Never used a wire gun (MIG) on aluminum much, so no opinons there :D

md1985250r
10-03-2004, 07:02 PM
I didn't know you could arc weld aluminum? Does it have a flux on it? Thats pretty cool if you can.

Personally I use a TIG with Argon as a shield. Its hard but I'm getting the hang of it and I'm starting to get pretty good. When working with aluminum, I gotta stress, clean clean clean clean clean the surface! It should be cleaner then a dish you would want to eat off of. Remove all white or grey oxidation with a course grit sandpaper (60-80) where the surface is pretty shiny. If you dont, everytime you try to weld your metal will turn black and you will not be able to make the aluminum flow at all and your piece you were trying to repair will be in worse shape then when you started.

Never used a wire gun (MIG) on aluminum much, so no opinons there :D


Billy, Aluminum rods for stick welding do have flux on them . The process is the same as all "stick" welding. SMAW= sheilded metal arc welding. As you said though , the pieces to be welded need to be EXTREMELY CLEAN. I personally have yet to try making anything out of aluminum, I have only run a couple test beads. (soon I hope to start fabrication of some nerf bars for my trike)

GREG

md1985250r
10-03-2004, 07:03 PM
Tig is much better


why?? what do you base your statement on?

Muddy200x
10-03-2004, 09:17 PM
Tig is definitly the way to go. especialy if you are weldind engine parts. I would sugest helium as a shield. much nicer.

There is another alternative though I have never tried it. looks interesting.
http://www.aluminumrepair.com/

OldSchoolin86
10-03-2004, 09:19 PM
Tig is a stronger weld.

MTS
10-03-2004, 09:22 PM
yea but brazin with any torch you still have to be good to make it look good becuse it will tend to run all over the place...if you use to much... :rolleyes:

md1985250r
10-03-2004, 09:31 PM
Tig is a stronger weld.


You sure about that??

No matter the method you use to join aluminum to aluminum, tig stick or whatever, it is still aluminum!! Neither is stronger than the other. It is strictly a matter of personally preference and availability of equipment!

Muddy200x
10-03-2004, 09:38 PM
Tig is a cleaner more pure weld.

TexFest
10-03-2004, 09:52 PM
I didn't know you could arc weld aluminum? Does it have a flux on it? Thats pretty cool if you can.

Personally I use a TIG with Argon as a shield. Its hard but I'm getting the hang of it and I'm starting to get pretty good. When working with aluminum, I gotta stress, clean clean clean clean clean the surface! It should be cleaner then a dish you would want to eat off of. Remove all white or grey oxidation with a course grit sandpaper (60-80) where the surface is pretty shiny. If you dont, everytime you try to weld your metal will turn black and you will not be able to make the aluminum flow at all and your piece you were trying to repair will be in worse shape then when you started.

Never used a wire gun (MIG) on aluminum much, so no opinons there :D

Hey Billy, I didn't know you could arc weld aluminum either until I found this website.
http://www.zena.net/htdocs/welders/Rods/Aluminum.shtml


Tig is definitly the way to go. especialy if you are weldind engine parts. I would sugest helium as a shield. much nicer.

There is another alternative though I have never tried it. looks interesting.
http://www.aluminumrepair.com/


Hey Muddy200x that looks pretty interesting.

Here's also another website I found, I have no idea if it works or not.
http://durafix.com/

Billy Golightly
10-03-2004, 11:02 PM
I've tried (heh) building a few things out of aluminum. Most of it was really thin and when I was just learning, the surface wasn't clean enough and it didn't turn out right. Lately I've been practicing alot on cases. Been doing pretty good too.

Never really heard of using straight helium for a shield when TIG welding, but Heli-Arc (Helium, and Argon) is probably more commonly used then just straight Argon. Straight Argon is pretty much for aluminum only. If you do any stainless or normal steel you'll probably want a mix.

Dan Tenn
10-04-2004, 10:51 AM
I have tried messing with welding aluminum by stick. It is a very difficult process compared to steel. An aluminum rod will last about 10 seconds. I t pretty much dissapears as fast as you can weld. Dont get me wrong, it can be done but takes lots of practice. Id say beginners need to stick with TIG for aluminum. You can also wire feed aluminum but I have never tried it.

TexFest
10-04-2004, 09:27 PM
Pretty good advice guys.

Today I was in town with my dad looking at aluminum products, I found aluminum rods that are like brazing rods, couldn't you use those aluminum rods on a torch but with the right torch and right heat?

Another product I found from JB Weld was waterweld but I'm thinking it wouldn't hold up inside a motor for very long if I decided to use that, very doubtful I would use that, but you never know about the product holding up. Here's a link for you guys to check out to see what you think. Do you think it's any good for a motor?

http://www.jbweld.com/waterweld.html

MTS
10-06-2004, 12:32 AM
yea TIG is best for aluminum..but not every one just has a 5000$ welder sittin around :P wire feed works pretty good as long as the surface is really clean...and you need to practice with it.. :)

kryppy
10-06-2004, 08:01 AM
Wire feed with pure Argon is the way to go!!
The problem with it is you can make a real good looking weld that won't hold anything. :)

Arc welding alumimum should be reserved for a real emergency!

Billy Golightly
10-06-2004, 10:48 AM
I asked my dad about the arc welding aluminum and he said you would be better off using JB welf. The rod melts so quickly and is usually to hot for the surface your working on. He told me a story about how my cousin one time was trying to patch a rip in the bottom of his airboat and ended up turning a hole that was about the width of 2 quarters thick a few inches long into a hole that you could put your hand through. Sounds like something to stay away from.

TexFest
10-07-2004, 02:22 AM
Hey Billy, sounds like your dad has good advice. Which JB Weld is your dad talking about? The JB Weld that comes in 2 tubes that you mix together? I saw some of that other waterweld at a store here in town and was reading the package and said when it gets hard you can do whatever you want with it. I just don't know if it will hold up to high temperature heat inside the motor.

Here's something I found on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=57039&item=3843008637&rd=1

Billy Golightly
10-08-2004, 04:17 PM
JB has similar heat dissipation to aluminum. But yeah, its the stuff that come in 2 tubes and you mix it up together. I don't like using it for much more then a quick fix myself, but other people are fine using it. All depends I guess. Main thing to keep in mind it the surface has to be clean, and rough so the epoxy will stick.

3 weelin geezer
10-10-2004, 12:45 AM
Texfest, you can use those rods with a torch but its not easy. You have to use a carburizing flame with that white feather about 1/2 in from the blue cone. My shop teacher showed us one time but I haven't tried it but once myself on a little piece that I melted. Maybe I'll try it again sometime on an old car water pump with better success. Damn those things are hard to melt even with a big fire.

mnnmaz
01-19-2007, 05:36 PM
there is no such thing as arc welding for alimunim.....

mnnmaz
01-19-2007, 05:38 PM
Im pretty darn good at welding aluminum!!!! If you want send my your stuff and I can do it! :)

Billy Golightly
01-19-2007, 05:56 PM
Well there are flux coated SMAW rods but uh, as mentioned above they dont perform very well. Barely enough to be called I'd welding I'd say.

3 weelin geezer
01-19-2007, 06:07 PM
there is no such thing as arc welding for alimunim.....


Then what do you call TIG? :wondering

mnnmaz
01-19-2007, 07:40 PM
TIG... Tungston Inert Gas.... NOT Arc!

3 weelin geezer
01-19-2007, 07:44 PM
Is it not also known as GTAW ?

85ytz250n
01-19-2007, 11:28 PM
there is no such thing as arc welding for alimunim.....


I will be like some of the fella's above and disagree, as I have tried it myself. Definetly be my last choice for welding aluminum. I would say TIG first and then MIG and as a last resort stick welding and the epoxys. I have used JB on GoKart engines to get through a race. TIG is almost always the way to go. I have a guy that I go to that usually charges me a 12 pack:w00t: .

Barry

tri-z_250R
01-20-2007, 02:59 AM
TIG, Tungsten Inert Gas, also know as GTAW or heli-arc. Tig welding aluminum is probably the best way to go if your welding a part that you want to look nice. with TIG you wont get the splatter like a MIG or ARC welder. Also the welds are less likely to have pits in the middle where you cant see them, unlike MIG. But if you set the welder right and your a good welder you can make a pretty nice lookin weld with MIG. And I agree with Billy's earlier statement... Clean the metal really well if your going the tig route, any contaminates (sp?) on the metal will make it so much harder to weld it right. Dont contaminate the tungsten... that isnt good either, it'll act like you didnt even clean the metal at all..

mnnmaz
01-20-2007, 11:18 AM
There is no such thing as ARC welding for aluminum. If you even tried it the stick would melt before the material

85ytz250n
01-20-2007, 11:32 AM
There is no such thing as ARC welding for aluminum. If you even tried it the stick would melt before the material

I just spent 5 years in the repair shop of a US Navy Frigate, there are welding rods for ARC welding aluminum, maybe you havent seen them. I have and have attempted to weld with them, as well as watching others try to weld with them so I wont get in an argument with you.:beer

Barry

200X Racer
01-21-2007, 09:17 AM
I bought a pack of aluminum rods once. Could not get the damn things to strike though, I was told they work alot better on a DC arc welder.

Dave223
01-21-2007, 11:59 AM
Tig is definitly the way to go. especialy if you are weldind engine parts. I would sugest helium as a shield. much nicer.

There is another alternative though I have never tried it. looks interesting.
http://www.aluminumrepair.com/
I have seen that at gun shows and tried it, it does work but takes alot of prep and practice! Im not sure if its the same brand as what they are advertising? It works awesome on non stressed parts like cracked cases and such also. I dunno if I would trust it to build or repair a swinger though.The one thing that grabbed my attention was the fact that all that is required is a plumbers torch or similar.I used it to repair areas and leaks on an aluminum Jon boat I had. Dave

Oh and 1 other thing I thought I would throw in here. If you ever have a crack to repair, drill a hole at each end of the crack before welding. It stops the crack from ever growing again by not giving the metal a square surface or "corner"to tear from (if that makes sense?). The USCG requires all corners to be radiused on ANY repair, for that very reason.

mnnmaz
01-27-2007, 12:34 AM
Yes you are correct on the drilling at the end of a crack before you weld it....;) And if you need some welding PM me I can do it. :naughty:

see the picts of my wifes skidplate i just welded up..... :naughty: :naughty:

Dave223
01-27-2007, 12:56 AM
I too have tried the arc welding rods for alum. They are out there and it can be done, just not by me! Maybe on material that was an 1+ thick. I have tried adjusting the heat, reversing polarity, anything I could think of, it just would not weld like a regular welding rod. just my .02

As far strength of welds, on regular iron (not sure on alum.) there is a strength diff. just look on the rod itself. The first 2 3 is the tensile strength..6011 is 60,000? lbs, 7011 is 70k. I think thats k anyhow.