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View Full Version : New pic of 500R, got the seat, need info please read.....



Louis Mielke
02-10-2005, 12:23 AM
Hey. Heres a current picture of the 500R. I just got the seat today. As you can see its far from fitting correctly. I'm going to remold the seat pan and then recover it but I'm waiting on my 400ex subframe to arrive before I can get to fabing it all up. I'm going to make a custom cover too.

I'm concerned about the fender hieght an such. Obviously it won't be the same but someone with a 250R could you measure how much distance is between the reqar wheels and the rear fenders height wise. Obviously mine won't be the same but it will help me in setting the subframe at the right height. Any info/opinions would help cause I'm building this thing from pictures and such so i don't know the best alignment and etc. I do know I need to take in to acount the fact that the suspension isn't loaded so the fender will sit at a higher angle untill the suspension is loaded. Right now the seat height is so rediculously high. I know once its all fabbed up correclt the fedner/seat height HAS to be much lower or it will be unridable/unslideable. Any info is welcome. Thanks in advance for your thoughts and opinions.

http://tiger.towson.edu/~lmielk1/image/500R/500withseat.jpg

Darius1502
02-10-2005, 01:24 AM
I would consider mounting the thank further back and not so far forward. Also consider moving the fender brackets forward for the rear fenders.

This is a tough one. I am sure others can help you better than I. Did you try any other seats?

See if that helps.

Billy Golightly
02-10-2005, 01:46 AM
I'd try an atc250R tank for seat alignment, and possibly bring it back further (The only thing is, this makes you stretch for the front bars and it is slightly uncomfortable. For ride height, kind of late now, but you might consider changing the angle of the rear shock mount so it is not as much of an extreme. If you move it back, you'll lower your ride height. If you still want to use that shock max out the suspension with a tie down ratchet and see what your ground clearence is, consider moving the shock back an appropriate amount to take up some of that clearence. Try a shorter rear shock, Slide the front forks up in the tripples 1.5 inches or so. Max the front out and check clearences, adjust as needed. My CR500 trike is going to be for drags only, so I plan on taking the CR500 tank off and making a small aluminum unit. Subframe will be custom made with an 86 250r frame as a template. I'm considering making it totally rigid but I will probably use some short forks in the front with a little bit of travel just to keep it from getting squirly if there are some brake bumps or something in the way.

Quickonstep
02-10-2005, 02:41 AM
hey loius.. wanna trade that seat for mine? i got a 400ex seat, but it says SPORT trax instead of FOUR trax.. just a thought.. both the same color

Jesse

Troll 2
02-10-2005, 09:43 AM
someone with a 250R could you measure how much distance is between the reqar wheels and the rear fenders height wise.



\

My 85r measures 12". Looks like a great project! Good luck...................... :beer

hrc85250r
02-10-2005, 12:39 PM
just use a newer model cr500 tank and keep the rear fenders, just make sure they are cut right so they look like they are supposed to be there, and make your own seat pan and use a custom atc500 seat cover....lower the suspension a couple inches too...holy crap!

Louis Mielke
02-10-2005, 12:52 PM
Well thanks for all the suggestions. Trust me your guys don't know how much I appriciate it. As for the suggestions. The tank is finalized....I really like that tank, and I really don't have any desire to move it further back. The fenders and seat though...will be receiving so modification. The seat is going to be totally remolded a. to fit the tank, and be to make the fenders look like they match the tank. The fenders will be cut so they match the tank, and will definatly have an angle so that the lines of the fenders match up wit hht etank so it looks right.

Basically I'm waiting for my 400ex subframe to come in the mail so I can use parts from it and parts from the CR subframe to make a new subframe that positions the fenders correctly. Then I'll be able to decide exactly what to do to the seat pan. I may even shave the foam an inch. I dunno about that yet.The seat pan is definatly going to be reshaped though, I'm goignt o heat the pan at the curve and lay it down flatt another inch or two and then form a new curve, then shave/bend the nose to fit the CR tank better.

Thanks for the fender measurments. Thats a help. And Quickonstep, I'll give you my seat cover when I take it off and make a pattern from it cause I won't need it anymore.

The supension is a toughy. I'm not getting another shock, that ones brand new from works and wasn't cheap. I am playing with the spring sag/rate though. I'm also toying with the idea of cutting out a new lower suspension link to lower the ride height. The real battle is the trade off between ground clearance and ride height. I want this to be a all around rider, not just a duner or drag racer.

sportvette
02-10-2005, 01:42 PM
would it be possible to reuse the shock and just fab a bracket so that the shock mounts to the bracket below the swingarm and the other end of the bracket connects to the swingarm?

Troll 2
02-10-2005, 02:16 PM
I adapted 85r fenders onto a 84r. Had to meld two seat pans together. Then build a one of a kind seat. Anything is possible.

Louis Mielke
02-10-2005, 06:40 PM
Anyone who's interested. Updated my site. The 500r project page has subframe prliminary design picture.

crackshot
02-10-2005, 07:25 PM
That's gonna be one mean trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro when it's finished.

atczack
02-10-2005, 07:51 PM
It look's like the seat/rear fender's would line up perfectly and fall into place if the current subframe was not in place. Could you take the current subframe out and join the seat/fender combo to the tank how you like it and ductape the front part of the seat to the tank where it won't move, and duct tape down the side of the tank onto the front part of the fender tabs that are under the tank. This way you could then get under the rear fender's and take measurement's from the bottom of the seat pan down to where the subframe will bolt to the CR frame. Whatever way you decide, I'm sure it will match the rest of the quality of your project. That's just my 2 cent's.

cr500=3wheeler
02-10-2005, 08:27 PM
A couple of things to think about first of all what air cleaner are you going to run, please dont say radiator hose technique. secondly do you have the factory cr500 air box (cut down to allow alot more air) (assuming your using CR500 frame) if you do put it back in factory location then leaving stock air box mounts in place figure how much you need to cut out above the mounts to get seat /tank looking right you should remove approximately 2- 3 inches then reweld 2 peices back together take your time and trust me in the end it makes for a cleaner look. I used an atc 250r fender seat combo one of the things we did find was the seat placement didnt sit right with the tank even after cutting subframe so i ended up repositioning seat mounting holes on fenders moving them forward about 3 inches so when you slide up on tank (you will need to) I had a little seat cushion versus hard plastic. If your interested I can get some pics tomarrow as digital camera is at work. Good luck on Build, wish you would have just bought mine geez people quit killing yourselves


P.s. What are your plans for starting it with your current pipe combo exiting out the rear your fenders wont flip up allowing you to kick. if this is not the plan then you might want to check into a set of 86-87 tecate 3 fenders as they have a spce to kick thru , this was going to be my other idea but instead i went with drag pipe. just something to think about!

hrc85250r
02-10-2005, 08:37 PM
dont mess with the suspension, just lower the subframe a little....it might necessitate lowering the stinger on the pipe, but that shouldnt be too much, or a problem at all....

Louis Mielke
02-10-2005, 09:17 PM
Well first off....if I bought yours (assuming its the one I'm thinking it is) I would never ride it because I don't need nor want a swingarm thats a million feet to long. Mines a 4" extension from stock and I don't even like that extra length.

Secondly, If you'd go to my website you'd see my subframe design is very different from the flip up design most people do on these 500 builds..I really dislike the idea of flipping up the seat and I plan on avoiding it.

I repeat, I'm building a general purpose machine. I plan on doing more with it that just drag racing.

My air box plans are not finalized but it will definatly utilize factory Honda parts. I may go with the 400ex air box. I dunno at this point in the game thats the least of my concerns.

Louis Mielke
02-10-2005, 09:20 PM
HRC85250R, you definatly are onto what I'm going to do, the rear fenders are going to sit lower than whats in the picture. The top fender lines will match up almost level to the lines of the bottom of the tank. If I make any drastic supsension changes I'm goign to lose my ground clearance. What is the stock ground clearance of a 250r anyway?

Oh and by the way. I have a domain now for my website.
just type www.atc500r.com and you'll go to my website. Obviously its a redirect but its still easier to remember.

cr500=3wheeler
02-11-2005, 01:47 AM
opinions vary!!!!!! good luck ,it looks nice

OZQUAD44
02-15-2005, 04:23 AM
Looks good mate, I think your on the right track. You really need to lower that rear sub frame in order to get that seat in a more useable position. This may require that tail end of the exhaust pipe is bent to sit horisontal so its low enough to clear the plasics when the seat is in its lower position. The bike subframe is designed to clear a rear tyre whereas a trike seat height has to be low for cornering whislt still allowing for a good seat to foot peg distance

Huffa
02-15-2005, 06:20 AM
Your 3 wheeler and my motox bike would look great side by side! :D

Louis Mielke
02-15-2005, 01:03 PM
Too bad that bike won't run side by side with my trike when its done :D

CRF450F right?

Mr. Sandman
02-15-2005, 01:11 PM
What is the stock ground clearance of a 250r?
4.7 inches.

hrc85250r
02-15-2005, 01:20 PM
sandman, i think he means skidplate height....not swingarm-carrier clearance....

Mr. Sandman
02-15-2005, 01:33 PM
4.7 inches is distance from the bottom of the stock swing arm skid plate to the ground, which is straight out of the 85 250R sales brochure.

hrc85250r
02-15-2005, 01:37 PM
i meant engine skidplate..sorry....

Louis Mielke
02-15-2005, 03:56 PM
Thanks. That helps alot. I'll adjust my shock as soon as I have someone to sit on it for me while I change the sag.

3Razors
02-15-2005, 03:58 PM
For the cr500 conversion the best seat fender combo to run is the 83/84 250r. I have seen many and it the best fitting.

Louis Mielke
02-15-2005, 04:04 PM
Thanks for the info. I already have my fenders. Using 400ex fenders and seat. I'll make em fit right. No prob.

Orangecnty250r
02-15-2005, 08:28 PM
To bad these wouldn't fit on your shroud/ tank combo :naughty: It would give it that factory look.

Louis Mielke
02-15-2005, 08:57 PM
Dude. Those stickers are awsome. Yeah I'm not sure what I'm going to do for gaphics. I think I want 500r down the rear fenders like the 200x/350X, and then I'd like atc500R and wings on the gas tank but they would have to be totally custom. Maybe I can make a patern off my tank in paper and send it to someone so they can make custom tank graphics for me. I dunno. I'll play with it. I'm still waiting on my 400ex subframe to show up. Hopefully it will be here before the weekend and I'll get some major work done on saturday & sunday and I'll be able to post some pics of the fenders in the correct location/the rear suspension adjusted. I can't beleive the stock 250R only has 4.7 inch of ground clearance. My 500r has I think over 10 haven't really measured. You can see a set of 200x tripples by the rear tire for compairison. I' going to adjust the rear shock and hopefully find different year CR forks that will allow me to drop the front end a couple inchs. The forks I'm using now have recesses in the top tubes so I can only slide the tripples down so far. I'm hoping that I can find some inverted forks that will fit in my bored out tripples. That would be really cool and would make my front brake setup go together so much easier. Anyone know of any inverted forks that are about 36mm in diameter at the top tubes?

OZQUAD44
02-16-2005, 03:51 AM
4.7 inches is distance from the bottom of the stock swing arm skid plate to the ground, which is straight out of the 85 250R sales brochure.

I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm flaming a bit, but everytime I check this thread that particular quote annoys me. The swing arm skidplate (sprocket and rotor gard) to ground distance is determined almost exclusivley by the tyre/rim size. Swingarm angle may change this distance by an inch or so at the very most.

The seat height, suspension settings, seat position, frame height, center of gravity, front fork settings, etc, etc. Have little or nothing to do with that particular measurement. So everytime I look at that quote It makes me cringe. I'm probably just clutching on too tight eh!

Having gotten that off my chest. I see that someone actually addressed this issue within two relpies so don't get too wound up about my rantings. The measurement from the bashplate underneath the engine is indeed the more appropriate measurement for what Louis Mielke was getting at. Mr Sandman I hope you don't take this personally as I don't profess to be perfect and I'm not trying to disrespect you, it was just bugging me thats all.

Mr. Sandman
02-16-2005, 12:37 PM
I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm flaming a bit, but everytime I check this thread that particular quote annoys me. The swing arm skidplate (sprocket and rotor gard) to ground distance is determined almost exclusivley by the tyre/rim size. Swingarm angle may change this distance by an inch or so at the very most.

The seat height, suspension settings, seat position, frame height, center of gravity, front fork settings, etc, etc. Have little or nothing to do with that particular measurement. So everytime I look at that quote It makes me cringe. I'm probably just clutching on too tight eh!

Having gotten that off my chest. I see that someone actually addressed this issue within two relpies so don't get too wound up about my rantings. The measurement from the bashplate underneath the engine is indeed the more appropriate measurement for what Louis Mielke was getting at. Mr Sandman I hope you don't take this personally as I don't profess to be perfect and I'm not trying to disrespect you, it was just bugging me thats all.

Not taking it personally, but I answered his question, "what's the stock ground clearance of a 250R"? If he meant the engine skid plate, then excuse me for providing the wrong info, but again, I just answer the question that was asked.

You are right about one thing though, changing tire size will affect the ground clearance, but then it wouldn't be stock would it? Which again is what he asked about?

Anytime ground clearance is mentioned on any vehicle, it is measured at the lowest point to the ground unless specified otherwise. And unless Mr. Meilke is building a rock crawler, and I don't think he is, the ground clearance of the engine skid plate is pretty much irrelevant, but maybe he can clarify this so others won't be bugged by the issue as well.

Louis Mielke
02-17-2005, 05:37 PM
Well when I said ground clearance I did mean from the underbelly of the frame but after reading all these posts, I can see that that is not really so much the issue to consider but the swing arm skid plate clearance.

The main point is lowering the ride height because as of now my seat height is only a little lower than a CR500 dirtbike. WAY to high for a trike. Now obviously my fender, seat & subframe are not mounted at all at this time but still its way high. All this imput is definatly helping me so keep any thoughts comming.

By the way, my 400ex subframe showed up yesterday so I will definatly be getting some work done this weekend. Yay!

So what size rear tire should I run? Its got 22-11-9 on there now and i have 8" or ground clearance at the bottom of the bearing carrier part of the swing arm. I figured I'd run 20" but I don't know now. I'm definatly going to be backig off the shock to lower the hieght a bit, (actually I already have some) and I have plans on getting different forks so i can drop the tripples another inch.

I will say that this beast is huge compaired to a 250R (I forget this fact all the time because I've never seen a 250R in person) but I do want the ride hieght to be simular to an R.

Just for a compairison, according to the specs pages of 3WW the stock wheelbase of the 85/86 250R is 51" and overall length is 74".
My 500r with a swing arm 4" over stock 250r arm length has a wheelbase of 76". I haven't measured the overall length.

Mr. Sandman
02-17-2005, 07:59 PM
The stock R tires are 20x11x9 in the rear and 23x8x11 up front so if you run those tire sizes it should help with your overall seat height. I've run 18" rears on mine in the past and not had a problem with swingarm/carrier ground clearance. Personally, I'd stay away from anything taller than 20" rears as sounds like the bike will be a tad top heavy as it is. If your wheelbase is 76", the overall length will probably be over 8' long. And if you haven't already, you might also consider a wider rear axle.

OZQUAD44
02-21-2005, 09:26 AM
Hows that sub frame coming along?

Louis Mielke
02-21-2005, 04:06 PM
Pretty good. We've gotten the main part of the subframe done now we need to attach the lower runs and start on the hinge mechanism. I'll try to stop by the shop this evening and get some pictures. Unfortunatly I won't get anymore done untill next week end. Good news though.. I just picked up an 86 200x for $450. It smokes so it probably needs rings but its pretty complete. Got another YTM225dr along with it. Picking them up next saturday.

Louis Mielke
02-22-2005, 07:47 PM
Alright, here are pics of what I've gotten complete as of tonight. The fenders are about the final height they are going to be but I'm not sure of any tilt in the rear and how far forward to position them. The seat still needs to be reshaped so no pictures of it on there at the moment. The subframe is not complete by any means, just the rough skeleton has been put together. My machinist freind needs to go over all my welding with the tig welder so it will look nicer. It came out slightly crooked on the rear tube but I'm not sure if I'll bother changing it since its covered by the fenders. i figured it gave it some character. lol. Anywho. Heres the pics. obviously I still need somethings tacked together. Like the masking tape? lol

http://tiger.towson.edu/~lmielk1/image/500R/500subframe.jpg
http://tiger.towson.edu/~lmielk1/image/500R/500subframe2.jpg
http://tiger.towson.edu/~lmielk1/image/500R/500subframe3.jpg
http://tiger.towson.edu/~lmielk1/image/500R/500subframe4.jpg
http://tiger.towson.edu/~lmielk1/image/500R/500fenderestimate.jpg

The fenders are kinda off kilter in the last pic. Opp its dinner gtg. Post more later.

Derrick Adams
03-25-2005, 12:03 AM
Louis, I'm bringing this post back from the dead! I'm seriously researching this conversion, to do for myself. I want to follow along with your progress.

I do have a couple things to add to this after reading your updates. Firstly, I think you may have mismeasured your wheelbase. The stock CR500 has a wheelbase of 58.6 inches. My Tri-Z measured 54 inches. (You know wheelbase is axle to axle length correct?) Even with your extended swing arm, there's no way you should be at 76".

Next, let's do some quick figuring on some of the differences in the CR and a trike. Just off the top of my head, if the CR500 has a wheelbase of 58.6 inches and you relocated the front axle to the rear of the forks, you've effectively shortened the wheel base by that distance (lets say 3") That brings you down to 55.6 inches. Then you proceeded to lengthen the swinger by 4" so we added a total of 1", but shifted the bike weight forward by 3 1/2". This is all relative to the 400ex swinger being the same factory length as the CR.

Kasey's 500R has a +6 swinger so that puts his wheelbase at 57", your at somewhere around 59.6" so that would be like a +9 on a regular 250R. That should take throttle great but be a bit long to ride in the woods.

Next thing that I am looking at is seat height. The stock seat height on a CR500 is 37.6 inches. My Tri-Z seat height is at 30 inches. First thing to drop that is the tire selection. I'm told the CR should have a 26" rear tire and a 28" front, if you go to a standard 20" rear and 23.5" front you immediately have dropped the seat height 2 1/2" to 35 inches. figure in the angle of the extended swinger and you probably ended up back at 36 inches.

Since you have the ability to fabricate the rear subframe, lowering the seat height there is a no brainer. Keeping 12" of suspension travel is just too tempting! This also lowers the whole bikes center of gravity. Sliding the forks up in the triples 1" or so will help with the stance and not sacrifice suspension travel, too.

Anyhow, these are just my opinion. But I think your on the right track . I sure wouldn't change your forks just to lower the bike and loose suspension. If you can get the seat height down to 32", which you CAN do, and keep all the suspension travel, you'll have a totally ridable trike.

Louis Mielke
03-25-2005, 01:21 AM
Well you've hit alot of information right on the head so your doing your home work and hosently being a little more thoughough than me. You've probably also noticed that there are some minor chain alignment issues with the way my swing arm is setup. I plan on taking care of that with some custom lathed spacers.

As far as seat hieght is concerned. With my current subframe design I can only lower the seat so far because of the pipe gets in way after a certain height so I'm still working on those details.

You've gota lot of infomration about all the measurements correct. Honestly my wheelbase was a best guestimate playing around one day. I really hadn't taked a carefully meaurements and as far as wheelbase goes I was measureing from center to center on the front and rear axels and this was after switch the front to trailing axel. I'll see if I can't get some better measurements soon.

I'll say for sure the CR suspsension is very plush. I was toying with the idea of making internal spacers to lower the front forks but i'm not sure what I'm going to do. I'm using 87 forks and that causes a problem trying to drop the forks in the tripples an inch. They have a recess in them. Total pain in the butt but I'm working around that too.

The whole thing is a labor of love and something that isn't completed quickly. Alot of the guys on the board have been saying it isn't a trike its a converted bike. As far as I've can tell, anything with 3 wheels is a trike whethr its converted, custom or factory. I wonder what people would say if I was to be haveing a brand new chromoly 250R frame custom built to use the complete TRX450R rear suspension setup and custom motor mounts to accomodate a plethora of engine options. :D Would they cry that its not truly a trike or would it be considered a trike?

Anyway...thanks for keeping the thread alive. The more people talk to me about it the more I'm motivated to work on it. Right now I'm kinda in a finacial slump so its kinda gone on the back burner. I graduate from college in May so things should turn around about a month after that....

Anyway. thanks again. and good luck with you endevours.

Derrick Adams
03-25-2005, 10:53 AM
Good work on the conversion so far. You can bet, if I do one, it will be documented equally as well.
I have some simpler ideas for the rear suspension, but you seemed to have nailed the triple/fork issue, so I think i'll follow that path.

I personally like 500's built around trike frames as well, but when looking at the design and the bike, why wouldn't you want to use it? Aftermarket pipes fit right on, at least 4" more suspension travel, beefier forks, stronger frame, lots of advantages to using the bike frame.

Derrick Adams
03-25-2005, 11:00 AM
Here's a couple more nice CR500 conversions!

toyota200x
03-25-2005, 11:58 AM
I really like how that red one looks. I bet if honda would have made one it would have looked like that.

NOS_350X
03-25-2005, 09:46 PM
Am i the only one thats going to run a stock swinger on a 500r? (if i get my engine)

Derrick Adams
03-25-2005, 10:23 PM
No, I'm going to run the stock swinger. I'm just welding on the tabs to mount the Banshee carrier and brake set-up, and calling it done!

83185s
03-26-2005, 03:31 AM
post some pics of the beauty when its done!! i wanna see that beast

OZQUAD44
03-20-2006, 07:14 AM
Hows this machine comming along, haven't see a picture for a while. How does it go? Turn? look?

Aussieduner
03-20-2006, 07:24 AM
Here's a couple more nice CR500 conversions!

The red one is sweet !!!

Aussie

corndog
02-14-2007, 05:16 AM
i want to mount either a 350x or a 400ex motor on a 200x frame.which one would be easier, or have less frame mods. any suggestions would be grate,

SYKO
02-14-2007, 10:04 AM
your looking at some SERIOUS mods to fit them into a 200x frame! both motors are taller and just plain BIGGER, almost to big for that frame, I would sugest a 125 pinger motor