ATC 600R: What to use for a front end?

[KZXT650]

Hi everyone. I've slowly accepted that I will not be able to make trike fest '06:( .
Soooo.. that left me with the question of: what trike do i build next? The answer I have decided is the Honda ATC 600R.

This is where I'm going to ask for input from all the talented and knowledgable folks here at 3WW.
The biggest crisis I'm facing at this time is: what tree / fork/ wheel hub combination should i use?
If any of you have the means to measure the length and diameter of the 250r and 350x forks I would be most appreciative of the information, Also if anyone knows exactly how much more rake the 250r tree has built into it that would help as well. I intend to use the XL 600R engine frame and tank for this project, so if anyone can measure the head tubes on their 250R's and 350X's that would help too:welcome:

I should be posting pix of this project soon for those of you who love seeing the transformation of old to new:D

[Billy Golightly]

INVERTS! Thats the only option to me anymore ESPECIALLY if its gonna be a custom. I'm working on a set of aluminum tripples right now to replace the steelies on my Z

[Derrick Adams]

Geez, I guess this would really depend on what you want to do with the bike. The biggest downfall to dirtbike conversions is that the frames are naturally taller, which causes 1 of 2 things. Too tall of ride height (tippy) or too little ground clearance on the frame. The trick is finding the happy medium.

As far as forks go, the 350X forks are just too puny for anything other than mild trail riding. They do seem to have a much better rake though. The 250R front is just too much rake when combined with the dirtbike frame, unless you modify something. Hard to locate, but the 86-87 Tecate front end may work real well. Plenty of travel and virtually no rake built into the triples.

Good luck with the project, it's alot of fun!

[Huffa]

Wouldn't it be easier to just find a 350X with a blown motor and shove the 600 into that? :wondering

Out of curiosity I wonder how close the mounting & overall demensions are between the two engines?

[KZXT650]

Geez, I guess this would really depend on what you want to do with the bike. The biggest downfall to dirtbike conversions is that the frames are naturally taller, which causes 1 of 2 things. Too tall of ride height (tippy) or too little ground clearance on the frame. The trick is finding the happy medium.

As far as forks go, the 350X forks are just too puny for anything other than mild trail riding. They do seem to have a much better rake though. The 250R front is just too much rake when combined with the dirtbike frame, unless you modify something. Hard to locate, but the 86-87 Tecate front end may work real well. Plenty of travel and virtually no rake built into the triples.

Good luck with the project, it's alot of fun!

The 250R forks are a larger diameter than the 350X forks I take it then. Have you ever mic'd them out? If so, could you post your findings for me please? I am kicking around building a custom tree, but if i do that I am going to use forks from a 500 even though I know it'll be a big headache to find a front hub and set up brakes on it. Might be easier to make a new head tube and weld it in with a touch less rake and use a 250R front end and be done with it:wondering

Huffa, you make a good point and if could find a roller at a good price i might go for it. I'd love to know the answer to how close the mounting points are too.

[Huffa]

86 250R - 39mm 9.8in Travel

86 350X - 35mm 8.0in Travel

..........as for the motor mesurements between 600 and 350 I'm sure someone will chime in with the answer and IF NOT, there is a guy up the street from me with one and sure he'd leave me take some measurements.

He really isnt into them and is a total Mustang freak and I do recall it wasn't all that nice. I'll go check it out for you, see what the situation is, see if he even has it any more for that matter. With any luck, he may want to sell the rat :naughty:

HEY........ Go down to East Cost ATV, they have a 350 in the showroom! Take the motor along with you for some precise measurements! :beer

In the mean time though here are some huge crystal clear shots of a 350 X motor which should at least give you some idea of the mount locations. That's one nice motor BTW !
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4635821972&indexURL=1&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting

[BigGreenMachine]

Wouldn't it be easier to just find a 350X with a blown motor and shove the 600 into that? :wondering




Its a very tight fit and no way easier then putting a set of trike forks and modding the swinger to take a trike swinger.

My vote is 86/87 Tecate tripples, forks brake, wheel and tire and a 350X rearend.

Oh and sounds like a pretty stout project trike, looking foward to some progress pics.

James

[Huffa]

Its a very tight fit and no way easier then putting a set of trike forks and modding the swinger to take a trike swinger.

My vote is 86/87 Tecate tripples, forks brake, wheel and tire and a 350X rearend.

Oh and sounds like a pretty stout project trike, looking foward to some progress pics.

James

How do you know that? You must have tried it or eyed it up at one time?

[Derrick Adams]

I couldn't tell you about the 600, but if it's similar to the 500's then it totally won't fit. HondaATC has tried it with MUCH fabrication into a 350X chassis. He finally gave up on it and sold it.

Jason Hall is working on a 500 right now.
http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=50143&highlight=xl500

As a comparison, the CR500 forks are 44mm w/ 12.2" of travel
Real easy to make work on your trike.
http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=50146&highlight=cr500
Problem would be that you would still have to modify some triples to work.

This thread will show you the difference in 250R triples vs. 350X triples on a dirtbike chassis.
http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=51914&highlight=cr500

The biggest obstical isn't even the front end, it's the 3/4" difference in sprocket locations between dirtbikes and trikes. Aligning the front and rear sprockets can be tricky.

Hope all this info helps.

Oh yeah, I forgot. I'm thinking about my next project as being a KLR650 conversion, street legal threewheeler!

[BigGreenMachine]

Watched Billy's 500XR swap into an X frame. It needed frame lengthening to actually fit.

James

[KZXT650]

86 250R - 39mm 9.8in Travel

86 350X - 35mm 8.0in Travel

..........as for the motor mesurements between 600 and 350 I'm sure someone will chime in with the answer and IF NOT, there is a guy up the street from me with one and sure he'd leave me take some measurements.

He really isnt into them and is a total Mustang freak and I do recall it wasn't all that nice. I'll go check it out for you, see what the situation is, see if he even has it any more for that matter. With any luck, he may want to sell the rat :naughty:

HEY........ Go down to East Cost ATV, they have a 350 in the showroom! Take the motor along with you for some precise measurements! :beer

In the mean time though here are some huge crystal clear shots of a 350 X motor which should at least give you some idea of the mount locations. That's one nice motor BTW !
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4635821972&indexURL=1&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting

Thanks for that info, and thank you everyone for their input thus far.I still have a number of details to look into yet before this project actually begins.
The next thing i need to know is the height to the bottom of the head tube from the bottom of the frame on an X and/or R and any other 250 or bigger sport trikes that were made. This involves holding a striaght edge up to the bottom rail on the frame while someone else butts a tape at a right angle into the straight edge and reads the number to the lowest point of the head tube. Once I have those measurements I can compare them to the XL's height and that'll tell me if its feasable to use it or not. If it falls within an inch I'm gonna go for using the XL's frame and build a removeable tail bone to mount the fenders and seat to.
The next step after deciding the front end will be the swingarm and rear suspension, I already have something in mind just got to go look at it some more.

[350xBomb]

Keep in mind that the 350s have leading axle forks where as the 250s have trailing...this can give the illusion of rake. And a quick question....what is the advantage to inverted forks???