S.C. Girl Protests Confederate Apparel Ban

[LonesomeTriZ]

I thought this deserves some attention.


"LATTA, S.C. (AP) — A 15-year-old girl led a small protest march Monday over her high school's ban on Confederate flag clothing, which she is also challenging in court.

Candice Hardwick walked with about a dozen people, about half of them family members and some wearing Confederate T-shirts, a few blocks to Latta High School. Hardwick wore a Confederate belt buckle and button and had the Confederate flag on her cell phone cover. She removed those items before entering the school, where she is a sophomore.

Hardwick says she wants to wear the emblem to pay tribute to ancestors who fought on the Confederate side of the Civil War. She said she has been forced to change clothes or turn her shirt inside-out, and has been suspended twice and threatened with being kicked off the track team.

John Kirby, school superintendent, said Monday that officials "have clothing issues every year ... and we've handled it consistently every time."

Among those marching with Candice was a black man, H.K. Edgerton, past chairman of the Southern Legal Resource Center's advisory board. The group filed a federal lawsuit in March on her behalf.

"She's made a stand for her Southland," said Edgerton. A former local NAACP leader in North Carolina, he is known for dressing up in Confederate gear to emphasize what he describes as the role blacks played in voluntarily supporting the South in the Civil War.

The *Edited*.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1969 that the First Amendment protects students' political expressions during school hours so long as they don't substantially disrupt the education process.

The high court has not ruled specifically on whether a student may wear Confederate symbols. Three years ago, the 11th *Edited*.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta upheld a lower court ruling allowing a school to ban the Confederate flag."


It is nice to see younger people do care about thier heritage after all.

[hambone]

Amen
The South's Gonna Rise Agin!

[LonesomeTriZ]

I would settle for an accurate port rail of what my ancestors fought for.

[85hondaatc125m]

Amen
The South's Gonna Rise Agin!
youve watched too much of the new dukes of hazzard, but I fully agree with the kids, some people just dont know what it really stands for. They think it is slavery, but it is supporting the veterans in the war somewhat. Back when the new 2003? dukes of hazzard came out they were taken to court for having the confederate flag on there car. Back in the 70s on the old dukes of hazzard nobody said nothing. They should just let them be and wear the clothing they want, unless it is wears and stuff.

[Billy Golightly]

Thats a pretty hot looking girl from what I can tell in the picture.

[LonesomeTriZ]

Thats a pretty hot looking girl from what I can tell in the picture.


I know it. I was waiting for some one to say it. I knew an attractive woman would gett the subject side tracked. :lol:

How ever, I agree. Let it be worn as long as it is worn respectfully. Don't get me started on my history lessons. :cool:

[Jeffro33]

What I don't understand is there is a guy I heard about on the news that wears woman clothing to school for the past 2 years. When he wore a dress to the prom. The school would not let him in. The rest of the 15 year old girl's story is just like the guy at the prom. She wore a confederate battle flag dress to her prom and they did not let her in. That is the reason this is coming to blows. But nobody will hear about the guy in a dress. I must be old school but to me a guy in a dress is more out there than a girl with a confederate battle flag shirt and dress.

[LonesomeTriZ]

We have no right to judge what others may feel is normal for them. Just as the uneducated have no right to tell me or any one what is offensive.

[erectordale]

I agree whith you Jeffro

[Jeffro33]

This is her in the dress. It don't even look like the same girl but it is.

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/1204/23promdress.html

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/1204/23promdress.html

[LonesomeTriZ]

That is not the same girl that led the march in this story. They are two totally different events.

[ATC crazy]

We had a similar situation at our school in my Junior year, just because someone complained (not about the flag...but someone whom they got in an arguement with, who just happened to be wearing a rebel shirt).

We started petitions, but everyone who signed it and started it was suspended.

I know the confederate flag is about heritage, but whats funny....all the black guys got to wear do-rags and their pants down to their knees, when there were rules about that.

[Tri-ZNate]

I know the confederate flag is about heritage, but whats funny....all the black guys got to wear do-rags and their pants down to their knees, when there were rules about that.


Ha I knew I wasnt crazy. Its a double standard, since their ANCESTORS not THEMSELVES had to pick cotton they get special privelages now.

Sorry bout that just had to vent. I look at it this way, if PETA members can go around wearing shirts and their little buttons then by god I can have a confederate symbol shown.

[LonesomeTriZ]

It is a double standard. That is one of the points braought up by this girl's protest.

[MichiganRedneck]

i get yelled at for the flag in my school too. i had one on my pickup and the cop who patrols the parking lot actually pulled me over out in front of the school. he comes up to my window and he says that the flag is not allowed on school property and if i didnt take it down, i was to get suspended. it was a huge load of BS. i was so mad. so i took the flag down and he pulled up next to my truck and asked me if i go to this school. i wanted to punch him. i have gone to the same schools since i was in kindergarden. the only reason he didnt know me was because i never get in big trouble. i just had to let off some steam. it made me so mad. :mad: :mad:

[firehart]

I don't have a problem with the confederate flag. Its a part of our history. So, let me see, its okay to have a different countries flag ( even one from one from a rival nation) or to burn our national flag, but its not okay to display a conferedate flag. What's wrong with this picture?

[MichiganRedneck]

firehart, i agree 100%

[firehart]

So the confederates were called Rebels. So were the original people from the colonies when we broke off from England. Is it wrong to display an American flag in England?

[LonesomeTriZ]

So the confederates were called Rebels. So were the original people from the colonies when we broke off from England. Is it wrong to display an American flag in England?


That is one of my biggest arguments as well. A lot of people fail to see the similarities.

[Jeffro33]

The people who are complaining are saying it is because of slavery in the south. The war between the state were not about slavery. It was over taxes, terriffs, and state rights. In other words when the reps. from large port cities were not in the house of congress would vote on highering taxes and terriffs on the ports. In fact the rep. from Menphis said that to the congress when declaring that the state of Ten. was succeding from the union. Other reps. implied that. Slavery had nothing to do with the war between the states. I have read a lot of books and documents trying to figure out how the union decided after the war that it was about slavery. I agree with Louis the person who won are about to decide history even if it is wrong. Being a PROUD member of Sons of Confederate Veterans we believe that anybody can join was long as they have a Confederate soilder in the family. A friend of mine is from Spanish background his great grandfather was in the 9th Florida volenteer cav. (last name is Alverez). I have met members of all races, relegions, and background. The flag has nothing to do with anything but being pround of our heritage.

[OldSchoolin86]

Tossing my cents in here even though I know better.

You can read books that will "prove" both sides of this argument. You can "hear" stories that tell different tales. The fact is that half the country if not more sees the confederate flag as a negative thing, it’s easy to see why too considering 2 groups were fighting for their beliefs and the confederates lost. The masses will see the support of a loosing group as a stance or rebellion even though there is nothing to rebel about concerning that war anymore. We have plenty of issues to fight for these days and this just seems like a thing of the past that needs to be let go just like reparations for salves. It's a matter that has no benefit to today.

On that same note banning a girl from wearing a shirt with the confederate flag on it only shows ignorance and possibly fear too. Who ever made that call has some issues that need to be let go! You probably won't ever see a stitch of the confederate flag in my house but I'll be damned if I ever tell anyone one that they shouldn't or can't have one themselves. Last I checked this is America and we have a flag with 50 stars and 13 stripes that stands for that very freedom of being able to express yourself.

[LonesomeTriZ]

That is why I am keeping my comments toned down on this one. I could very easily prove the argument that the South was right. But the issue here is being able to wear or display a symbol that means something to you. Now if she wanted to wear a shirt that said something racial with no way to misread it, then that is different story. As long as there is nothing on her clothing that says anything derogatory, she should have the right to wear it. We all should...

[random-strike]

i also think the idea of a confederate union of states is better than a federal government. F the federal government (even though state and local governments are getting to the point where they are far worse than the feds)

[250r'en +TCB]

^^^ I have to disagree with that one...... Condederations fall apart, history will back me up on that. The plain and simple fact is America wouldn't be the world superpower. If you commit to something, like a war you need to commit 100%. In a confederation petty differences get in the way of what is the main issue. The south may have agreed on there first war, but if they had survived do you think they would be unified when WWI and WWII happend(if they would have...)??? Doubtful.....
When it omes to flying the flag the only objection I have to it is when when a STATE CAPITAL flies it!!! Like south carolina for instance!!! That isn't right, it's a relic of history, not a piece of ACTIVE history! I wish we still had Andrew Jackson as president:twisted: !! <<< History lesson for another time.....
As for private citizens flying it I could care less. Like OSin86, you will NEVER see one on my property, but if a person wants to express themselves they have the right to.
-Devin

[LonesomeTriZ]

Not all confederations fall apart. The thirteen colonies of this nation was a Confederation before we bacame the Union. There are a lot of similarities between to two wars.

[Billy Golightly]

Why was this moved to the this vs that? Seems to be intelligent conversation for the most part...

[OldSchoolin86]

Why was this moved to the this vs that? Seems to be intelligent conversation for the most part...
Not sure what intelligence has to do with it but it sure looks like a debate to me. :wondering

[Billy Golightly]

:lol: well to me this vs that forum is not necessarily for debates, as we've had a fair share of political debates here in the open forum. Its more for....well, this vs that type of things. mustangs vs camaros, 250rs vs trizs, ect.

[atctim]

OK - here are my 2 cents - being a Pennsylvanian my whole life I see many locals sporting their "rebel flags" and I have to laugh.
#1 - you are in PA - you live here and were raised here - you are a yankee
#2 - they lost the war - the yankees won!!! What gives?

Then I start to realize what so many higher ups in school districts and politicians are failing to see- it's not a North and South thing anymore. It's all about making a statement - "Hey look at me - I am a fearless rebel, don't reckon with me or you'll get hurt" - a gerenral badass attitude - a feeling of rebelling.

So I say - if you want to wear a shirt with the rebel flag - go for it. People don't get kicked out of school for wearing a Harley Davidson shirt, and any "Hardcore" harley guy has the same beliefs as these modern day rebel flag sporting youths.

I have nothing against it, although I still get a chuckle from these confused northern rebels - it is a free counrtry, and if you are not hurting anyone by wearing it - then wear it.

On the other hand - if blacks are getting upset by the rebel flag, they need to read their history books a little better. I also don't want to offend (if I tough toughen up a bit junior), but hear are my feeling about that - I do not take offense to my black neighbors who proudly display a "black power" fist in the dash of their car, so they should not take offense to the rebel flag. I don't!

This country needs to grow a set and stop worrying about everybodys feelings. We are Americans - a melting pot of culture - expect your feeling to get hurt by others beliefs and opinions. Stand up for what YOU believe in and stop worrying about everybody else. Man - this country is turning into a bunch of whinning babies!!!!!!!

FLAME AWAY:twisted:

[deathman53]

I can see both sides. I don't agree with the confederate flag, but its part of history to southerns. you are dealing with the same issue over the prayes in school and the same thing of why happy holidays is said instead of merry christmsa. Some groups in this country were bothered by it and wanted it changed. People should be able to wear whatever they want as long as it doesn't atract people attention when they are trying to learn. The fact is this nation is too polictical, people get offended, it gets banned, and it becomes opessive. If your school has rules against confiederate flags, thats fine, but also if there is a rule against people wearing their pants down to their knees and those do-rags or what ever they call it, it should be enforced. I personally don't like how this country is full of double standards and sadly minorities get the better side of the double standard.

[LonesomeTriZ]

OK - here are my 2 cents - being a Pennsylvanian my whole life I see many locals sporting their "rebel flags" and I have to laugh.
#1 - you are in PA - you live here and were raised here - you are a yankee
#2 - they lost the war - the yankees won!!! What gives?

Then I start to realize what so many higher ups in school districts and politicians are failing to see- it's not a North and South thing anymore. It's all about making a statement - "Hey look at me - I am a fearless rebel, don't reckon with me or you'll get hurt" - a gerenral badass attitude - a feeling of rebelling.

So I say - if you want to wear a shirt with the rebel flag - go for it. People don't get kicked out of school for wearing a Harley Davidson shirt, and any "Hardcore" harley guy has the same beliefs as these modern day rebel flag sporting youths.

I have nothing against it, although I still get a chuckle from these confused northern rebels - it is a free counrtry, and if you are not hurting anyone by wearing it - then wear it.

On the other hand - if blacks are getting upset by the rebel flag, they need to read their history books a little better. I also don't want to offend (if I tough toughen up a bit junior), but hear are my feeling about that - I do not take offense to my black neighbors who proudly display a "black power" fist in the dash of their car, so they should not take offense to the rebel flag. I don't!

This country needs to grow a set and stop worrying about everybodys feelings. We are Americans - a melting pot of culture - expect your feeling to get hurt by others beliefs and opinions. Stand up for what YOU believe in and stop worrying about everybody else. Man - this country is turning into a bunch of whinning babies!!!!!!!

FLAME AWAY:twisted:




There sometimes is a legitimate reason for some one north of the Mason Dixon the fly the Confederate colors. I am a member of the Son’s of Confederate Veterans and we have camps all over the world. Every single state in the union has several camps with in them. If some one if flying the flag in a northern state that person may have ancestors that fought for the Confederacy. A lot of northerners volunteered to fight for the south. If that is not the reason then hopefully they fly it in honor of the southern cause. But if they fly it for neither reason and they are just trying to piss people off then they are part of the problem and should be drug out into the street and shot. Those are the people that have no real loyalties. If they fly the flag with no ties to it they obvious care nothing for their home state. I really hate those people.

[OldSchoolin86]

One question, are those of you that wear the rebel flag still proud to fly the American flag?

[Billy Golightly]

One question, are those of you that wear the rebel flag still proud to fly the American flag?


Yes, hanging outside right now infact.

[LonesomeTriZ]

One question, are those of you that wear the rebel flag still proud to fly the American flag?

I am in the military. What does that say?

[OldSchoolin86]

I am in the military. What does that say?
It's a question for all. I know where you stand and I hope you know I'm not singling you out. I want to hear from all rebel confederate flag supporters. The answer to this question is a very important one to those that don't fly the rebel flag. ;)

[LonesomeTriZ]

I am loyal to my country and I am willing to make the sacrifices necessary to keep us all free. However, I also know where I came from. That is why I not only fly the confederate flag, but will also stand toe to toe with any one who wishes the disgrace it. I knew what you were getting at. I just wanted to point out that supporting the flag does not necessarily mean we are not loyal to the Union. That being said, I am defending all of our rights to fly that flag with out persecution. So the fact that there are so many who wishes to ban it, really strikes a nerve with me on several levels. Why have so many made the ultimate sacrifice for this sort of thing to happen now?

[OldSchoolin86]

I am loyal to my country and I am willing to make the sacrifices necessary to keep us all free. However, I also know where I came from. That is why I not only fly the confederate flag, but will also stand toe to toe with any one who wishes the disgrace it. I knew what you were getting at. I just wanted to point out that supporting the flag does not necessarily mean we are not loyal to the Union. That being said, I am defending all of our rights to fly that flag with out persecution. So the fact that there are so many who wishes to ban it, really strikes a nerve with me on several levels. Why have so many made the ultimate sacrifice for this sort of thing to happen now?
Good points here.

I personally believe that most people who wish to ban the confederate flag don't understand why it is supported. I'm one that likes to move forward and not concern myself with the black eyes of the past but I also strongly believe in being able to express yourself. To me I could care less who was right or was wrong. It was after all over 140 yrs ago. Choosing to carry a load from that war only continues the misguided hatred and confusion that isn't needed to move forward in life.

I asked the question about pride in the American flag because a lot of people that don't understand where rebel flag supporters are coming from and don't understand that supporters might still be proud Americans. Flying a flag of rebellion can easily look like disrespect when this isn't always the case. It appears that this flag of rebellion is just a symbol of pride in one's heritage. My heritage is a different story but part of being an American is allowing others the right to express their rights of freedom even if we don't understand it.

[Billy Golightly]

I find it strangly ironic that if a latino group decided they all wanted to wear apparal with a mexican flag on it to school or in public that it would be excepted with open arms for the most part.

[wheelie king]

apparal with a mexican flag on it to school or in public that it would be excepted with open arms for the most part.

Accepted? sometimes, even ENCOURAGED. Let's celebrate certain heritages, and disgrace/insult others. That is the double standard. The fact that the KKK and Neo-Nazi "White Power":crazy: movement has adopted the Confederate battle flag as their symbol, has done more damage than anything to the societal acceptance of the Confederate battle flag. Actually, I enjoy flying the First National or Bonny Blue, cause half of the folks out there don't even know what it is. But those that do....wel, that's what it's intended for. Those that get it, get it.

Unfortunately, as long as white trash in sleeveless shirts quoting Larry the Cable Guy all day enjoy flying a Confederate Battle Flag, it will NEVER lose that stigma. :rolleyes: Too bad

[jrsyredneck]

i think even though it represnets the saouth in the civil war it still is a part of amercian history there are confederate soilders buried in arlington cemetary so in my mind the government is supporting it in beeing flown just my personal outlook

[TimSr]

But if they fly it for neither reason and they are just trying to piss people off then they are part of the problem and should be drug out into the street and shot. Those are the people that have no real loyalties. If they fly the flag with no ties to it they obvious care nothing for their home state. I really hate those people.

You hit it right on the head, and that is what is screwing it up for those of you with real ties to this flag - People hijacking to Confederate flag, who have no business "claiming" it, for the purpose of trying to show that they are "rebels" or as a way to show disrespect for some other establishment. People with no ties to the Confederacy, and no heritage connected with it have no business claiming it as their own any more than I could rightfully take a few Spanish classes and fly the Mexican flag and claim to be Hispanic. If you fly the Confederate flag it should be to honor the Confederacy, not to make some kind of statement that you are anti-establishment.

I do not fly that flag because it is not part of my heritage. I respect it, and the cause it symbolized (anti-federalism NOT salvery) but I have no right to fly it or claim it. I feel that for me to wave it to show everybody that Im a "rebel" would be disrespectful towards it.

The only difference between the Revolution and the Civil War was that in the Revolution, the revolters won.

By the way, an awful lot of Black men fought and died under the Confederate flag. Flying it honors them too.

[LonesomeTriZ]

Gregg and Tim both just made excellent points. As long as the ignorant red neck trailer trash crowd publicly claims the flag as a redneck symbol, it will always be tied in with trash and hate. I two fly the first national because that is the true representation of the Confederacy. The battle flag is just that, a flag flown only during battle. I have met many black members of the son’s of Confederate Veterans who ancestors wore the grey uniform. Black soldiers actually had a harder time be accepted into the Union army rather than the Confederate. There just wasn’t as many of them so you do not hear about it as much. There were black land owners just as upset over the way the South was being treated.

[250r'en +TCB]

I have one question that has needed to be answered for me........ Why in hell does south carolina still fly a confedrate falg over its capital building?!?!?! I know my history and I know that they were the first "rebel state" to suceed from the union. However, I personally do not feel that a state capital has the right to fly that flag. It actually has the responsibility NOT to fly it in my opinion. I understand that it is a part of their history, but a state should not pick and choose sides based on history!!!!!!!

Funny history fact: When Andrew jackson was president (former general) after the war of 1812 the Govoner of South Carolina threatend to succeed from the union (about 40 years before civil war)!!! Jackson mailed a letter to the govoner saying that he would raise a small army, and march down to south carolina and hang the govoner from the first tree he found!!! hahaha and when a man like Andrew Jackson says that to you, you can bet that he will back it up 101%!!! Wish Lincon was that that brutal!!!! Sometimes you NEED people like that.....
-Devin

[wheelie king]

You mean you need a monarchy or dictatorship. You're right! It worked for China....er, well. Actually it didn't. What about east Germany? Ummmm.....no, not there either. How about the USSR? That was....ummmm....well, that did not fly to well after all.

Without progressive, forward, Dare I say it: Revolutionary thinking- a nation will be at the mercy of its government. Look at Roman history....and the brutal demise of it's "empire". The governement literally killed its own foundation.

When you have a president, monarch, emporer- whatever- threaten a leader of people with hanging and be the absolute apex of the government, you got REAL problems. :crazy:

Power to the people is what our Country is founded upon. I think we have strayed too far from that even today. How often do you hear of a social uprising in Sweeden? Think about it.

[corndawg]

the next town over from us has a huge illegal mexican population, most of them freely fly mexican flags, the high school over there started kicking people out for wearing the rebel flags, so about 15 of us guys from our school flew flags on our trucks and made some laps around their school, as well as the super's office. the rent-a-cops stopped us, but since we werent from that school, we were free to go :w00t: ......my school is starting to get on people about wearing the flag, yet the mexican i now wear a rebel flag hat just to do so, if they can get away with wearing shirts with the name of their "gang" on it, i sure as hell better be able to get away with a rebel flag:beer

[xd 200x]

I really don’t care what people fly or wear ,but the way I was raised was that wearing a flag as or on a piece of clothing unless in uniform is disgraceful in the first place. So if you think about it she isn’t really honoring anything she is degrading it. Right? That’s what always pissed me off about people who were *Edited*.S flag shirts like they are bud light shirts. Or people who put flag license plates on there car or truck. What’s the point of that so you can get this flags that you find so special or what ever all dirty with road grime. Flags belong on 1 place the top of a pole. Any other place in my mind is very disrespectful.

[250r'en +TCB]

You mean you need a monarchy or dictatorship. You're right! It worked for China....er, well. Actually it didn't. What about east Germany? Ummmm.....no, not there either. How about the USSR? That was....ummmm....well, that did not fly to well after all.

Without progressive, forward, Dare I say it: Revolutionary thinking- a nation will be at the mercy of its government. Look at Roman history....and the brutal demise of it's "empire". The governement literally killed its own foundation.

When you have a president, monarch, emporer- whatever- threaten a leader of people with hanging and be the absolute apex of the government, you got REAL problems. :crazy:

Power to the people is what our Country is founded upon. I think we have strayed too far from that even today. How often do you hear of a social uprising in Sweeden? Think about it.
I think you have been listening to the LIBERAL media way too much. Our government has a checks and balence system. If the supreme court, congress or the president does something, the other 2 can over rule it....... Revolution should never be the first thing thought of when things arn't working out well.....
And for shrist sakes, please don't ever compare the american government to dictatorships or monarchs agian, that is crap the liberal media says!!!
-Devin

[wheelie king]

My point was this: Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I can assure you that I DO understand the checks and balances system. I simply addressed your point that if Jackson threatented (with apparent intent on carrying out his threat) to hang a governor for advocating succession, then there is a problem with that.

I was not directly comparing our Country to a dictatorship or the like. I know that a knee-jerk revolution is not a viable option. I was being sarcastic to prove my point :lol: . Oh, and I will draw any comparison again if I like, because I enjoy the freedom of speech that my country affords me. That's the beauty of it, bro. Again, I was not serious, so relax.

I do not watch the news or read the newspaper hardly ever. I am not a fan or a believer of the psycho liberal media, but thanks anyway.;)

[LonesomeTriZ]

I think it is time I cleared up some confusion. The war that erupted in the 1860’s was not a Civil War. I know that is what a lot of you have been taught and it is a commonly used expression. But in fact that War Between the States was far from a civil war by definition. A civil war contains is two or more factions with in one established country or controlling government vying for power and control of that establishment The war for Southern Independence was just that. The South wanted their independence not control over the Union. Think about it. Why was the War of Independence not considered a civil war? The colonies were firmly under the control of the king were they not? Once their independence was one the war ended. The Southern cause was known with in the South as The Second War of Independence. Many still today with deep roots with in the Confederacy accurately consider it the War of Northern Aggression. Long story short, this is a good example of how far off the lessens in school are. They teach it as a civil war when in fact the definition does not even closely fit. Another advancement of our modern educational system at work.

Now as far as displaying the flag on clothing, I could not disagree more. A printed piece of material whether it be on a license plate or cloth for clothing only represents the flag. It is a symbol of the flag, and not a flag of its own. By wearing or displaying that symbol is a form of personal honor to the symbol of what the flag itself represents. Because most people in general can relate to what a flag represents that becomes their own form of expression. So you are half right about where a flag belongs. One place is up a pole and the other if draped over a coffin.

[wheelie king]

Damn, Louis. Well done. My sentiments exactly. :w00t:

[LonesomeTriZ]

Damn, Louis. Well done. My sentiments exactly. :w00t:


See, I am not as think as you dumb I am. :D

[Jeffro33]

Someone asked why do we care about the past we should only be trying to make the future better. In my mind we have to look to the past for leasons in the future. I personally don't believe the confederacy would have lived this long. If you look at it in anouther way without the confederacy laying down of arms. The South won. We got taxes and terriffs lowered and also we got more states right which we still have today. I think the war between the states had to happen so the other states would back off. Unfortunaly it had to go as far the south succeding from the union. Then the bullies in Washington City did not like that so they got a military together to try to make the south come back. Then it ended up turning into a war. Mainly in the the south. Most people in the south did not know what was going on. They knew that people were coming to there land taking there stuff and burning there house. So they armed themself. A couple of soldiers fought on both sides. When the Union came through to save there house and family they would fight for the Union. After that the confedate soilders would come by and they would do the something. They were just protecting there land and families. There a brief history lesson on the War Between the States.

[86waterpumper]

Well I agree with alot of what's been said, and some other things I don't. I have always supported the flag my family being from mississippi but I too fail to see the point of people from the north or other places using it etc unless they have some sort of family ties to the south. I agree plenty groups have adopted the flag that shouldn't have and caused it to look bad but that doesn't hurt it's image in my eyes. It just means alot of people are misguided as far as the symbols they choose, plenty of people in the past have misused the american flag, burned it etc but this certainly doesn't mean it's of no value anymore. As Billy pointed out, illegal immigrants and whoever else seem to be able to wave flags for mexico or other countries. This seems like it would be a bigger issue to me, at least the rebel flag does have ties to THIS country in some shape or fashion, and most people that fly the rebel flag for the right reasons you will find honor the american flag as well. As far as moving on goes and what has meaning today, everything is tied to the past, obviously alot of people dont have much interest in history whether it be pertaining to the south or to the country as a whole, so it's easy to see why they woudln't really care about where either flag got it's origin. I fail to see the purpose in changing state flags to suit whatever people are offended by it at the time, I commend South Carolina for being one of the very few southern states that have not given in to changing their flag. This same issue was put to a vote in Mississippi back in 2001 and the new flag design was voted down 2 to 1 and they kept their old one. Why is something that has been good enough for over 100 years suddenly not anymore? Who is to say that in 50 more years, the flags that the southern states have changed won't offend someone or look ugly to someone else or the colors in it are wrong etc haha let's just change them up on a monthly basis. I constantly see things about Martin Luther King on tv or in books etc to be honest with you (many black people would disagree with me) but I think most of the things he fought for as far as racial equality etc have come about there certainly are not seperate drinking fountains anymore or discrimination as far as jobs etc go. Now this man is dead, but I don't care if people still want to honor what he tried to do, obviously it is of importance to some because of the cause he fought for, now I"m not going to walk around with black power or martin luther king shirts on because I'm not black so it has no relevance to me, but this doesn't mean I"m going to actively fight to stop these people from honoring a figure from the past that they admired etc. On the other hand, you have people wanting to change the names of state parks, or take down confederate memorials in various towns or even dig war heros up and move them somewhere less offensive. Of course digging a dead body up and displacing it somewhere it's not bothering someone is not offensive at all to the confederate soldier's decesdants or family is it haha. This issue goes way way beyond any flags though, as someone pointed out, its' time we got a backbone and stopped getting offended by every little thing that's done and changing laws to suit it for whatever group there is. It's a given fact of human nature that it's impossible to please everyone it is getting to be a joke. We need to be careful how many of our freedoms we are cool with giving up, the same can be applied to the CPSC they certainly demonstrate give someone a inch and they'll take a mile don't they. I think alot of people don't think something is a very big issue until their freedoms are already gone, or until a law is twisted into something else. As far as the flag goes, alot of people think oh well it's not a big deal to not be able to wear them to a school or to ban having the symbols on cars, but when it is taken as far as to not be allowed in reenactments or statues or bodies being moved that have been there 100s of years it has gone too far.

[Tri-ZNate]

The fact that the KKK and Neo-Nazi "White Power":crazy: movement has adopted the Confederate battle flag as their symbol, has done more damage than anything to the societal acceptance of the Confederate battle flag.

Its stuff like this that drives me up the wall. The KKK DOES NOT use the Confederate Flag as their symbol.

http://www.christianbooksandthings.com/flags.1.gif

Probably most people dont even know what the KKK stands for anymore, but that can wait another day.

http://www.kkk.bz/index1.htm

[OldSchoolin86]

As Billy pointed out, illegal immigrants and whoever else seem to be able to wave flags for mexico or other countries. This seems like it would be a bigger issue to me, at least the rebel flag does have ties to THIS country in some shape or fashion, and most people that fly the rebel flag for the right reasons you will find honor the american flag as well.

This issue goes way way beyond any flags though, as someone pointed out, its' time we got a backbone and stopped getting offended by every little thing that's done and changing laws to suit it for whatever group there is. It's a given fact of human nature that it's impossible to please everyone it is getting to be a joke.
I can relate to these two points the most. First off it pisses me off to no end to see all these mexican flags flying around. These dumb asses come to this country because theirs sucks and then they fly the wrong flag. What a spit in America's face to make such a statement. We're glad to use your system but we'll still fly our crappy countries flag. Total joke!

I'm also with you on this backbone thing. IMO this world is getting way to politically correct. I'll even find myself dipping into that territory from time to time but I hate it. Some adjustments are needed but we just go way overboard these days.

[wheelie king]

Its stuff like this that drives me up the wall. The KKK DOES NOT use the Confederate Flag as their symbol.

http://www.christianbooksandthings.com/flags.1.gif

Probably most people dont even know what the KKK stands for anymore, but that can wait another day.

http://www.kkk.bz/index1.htm

If it makes you sick that the Klan is misrepresented, then attack the persons misrepresenting it, not me.:lol:

Do your research, Pal. Pennsylvania, huh?. Uh...Ok. Unfortunately for the KKK, there are many different factions and derivations of the organization, if you could even call it an "organization". I say that because there are many groups and folks out there that call themselves Klan, when they are only wannabees.

I was present at the last Klan rally in Avon Park, FL (not by choice). And Guess what???? Confederate battle flags leading their march, in addition to the Iron Cross, Swastika, and the symbol you noted.

I stand by what I said, because I was there and saw what was displayed. Moral of the story? Things aren't always what they seem. But thanks anyway ;)

[ATC crazy]

About 30 minutes from my house, there is a little (New Castle. pop. about 250-300) town that is the KKK "headquarters" for our state/surrounding states. Every 3 out of 5 houses has either the confederate flag or the KKK flag. :D

I want to move up there, because land is cheap and there aint no one around!

[Jeffro33]

With the KKK our there it might rub off on you. Watch out you might got so dumb that you would not be able to ride 3 wheelers. I understand what they stand for. they say it is all about religion. Same way with the people from 9-11. It is in the name of god. None of the bibles say anything about hating people is good. I know anybody can read it many ways but trust me Hate is bad no matter how you look at it. Shows you how dumb they are using the confederate battle flag as there own. Hate groups are a joke. They wonder why they can not get respect. I wonder. LMAO

[250r'en +TCB]

With the KKK our there it might rub off on you. Watch out you might got so dumb that you would not be able to ride 3 wheelers. I understand what they stand for. they say it is all about religion. Same way with the people from 9-11. It is in the name of god. None of the bibles say anything about hating people is good. I know anybody can read it many ways but trust me Hate is bad no matter how you look at it. Shows you how dumb they are using the confederate battle flag as there own. Hate groups are a joke. They wonder why they can not get respect. I wonder. LMAO
The KKK is just like another wacko religous organization. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't one of those 10 comandments "thought shalt not kill".... It dosn't say after that "unless the person has darker skin color than you and your budies"! Religion was created with respect for your fellow man in mind. All basic religions are based on respect. You have christans, and then you have extremeist christans who twist the words to justify there cause when in reality it goes agianst the foundation of the religion!!! Same with muslims, you have normal muslims and then you have Osama and his friends. Normal people don't believe their crap!!!

You leaders who use the religion as a tools to further their cause. The weak who can't have an opinion themselves follow......
-Devin

[random-strike]

http://www.homemadeturbo.com/jbliss/white_image02.jpg

[ATC crazy]

With the KKK our there it might rub off on you. Watch out you might got so dumb that you would not be able to ride 3 wheelers. I understand what they stand for. they say it is all about religion.

Naaaa....Im not religious. They can't get to me ;)

[LonesomeTriZ]

Dman, I have missed a lot since I have been gone. I see there are more eductaed people here than I first thought.

Um, that came out wrong. I meant of southern history.

Now... I am not in any way defending the klan. However, when they were first started thier mission was to simply protect the southern people living in the war torn south. What they are now is a joke.

[ATC4ever!]

I take it that you guys are not black, so take it from a black man that was raised in the south, Alabama to be exact. I spent about 5 years in S. C. serving in the military and trust me, it IS about HATE not Heritage. See I don't think that it would be a problem with the rebel flag except for from the begining, and everytime you turn on the TV or read a magizine about it or just real life experiences; Hate is whats being portrayed! Speaking again that I serve in the military I'm pretty sure nobody would have anything to say about wearing an American flag shirt to school. The point is this, the first article stated that any student could express their political veiws as long as it didn't disrupt the education process; you don't think it did? S.C. has if not the biggest pop. of blacks in the U.S. so no doubt at this school there were alot of students upset, that's like a powder kegg of TNT about to explode! Here again at SCHOOL! I think that would disrupt the education process! What people do at or on there private property is their business, public school is another thing. Folks, if America doesn't learn to get along with itself we will be divided and conquered by a far less people.

[LonesomeTriZ]

It is about hate huh? I to serve in the military. I am an NCO soon to be an officer in the Army. I asure you when I fly that flag, respect is all I have in mind. I persanly know black people who feel the same way I do. Thier roots can be traced back to a black Confederate soldier. Becuase of how our history is tought, most young people today see a political statement or ignorence when they see my flag. If you really want to compare the flags, look at the history of both.

[Banage]

well said triZ

[2strokes4life]

i'll add a different twist to this discussion. i think that most kids these days use the flag to symbolize that there a redneck. simple as that. they really dont know too much about it otherwise.i would also say that some use it as a symbol of hate. up here in CT the flag is quite common and seems to be freely displayed by anyone who wants to. mabey its different in other parts of the country, but my explanation is why you'll see it up here.

[86waterpumper]

You are correct that on tv the flag is portrayed as standing for hatred, that's the great thing about movies isn't it, you can put whatever in them you want. To say the subject has been beaten like a dead horse is putting it extremely mildly, and I for one am sick of seeing so many movies about the south, or mississippi especially that cannot deal with any other subject than civil rights etc. To say the flag only stands for hate, is the same logic that is used by a few misinformed people who say that anyone practicing the religion of islam is a terrorist and wishes ill will towards the u.s. etc, when obviously this isn't the case. The racism card has been played out, it gets old to steadily hear it. Let me give you a great example. Elections are going on, so every night on tv one is constantly seeing ads from the politicians etc. Bob Corker in TN is running agaisnt Harold Ford Jr. for the senate race. Obviously 99 percent of the ads are mudslinging against the other candidate. Bob corker is white, and harold ford jr. is black. At any rate Corker did a ad in which he had several people talking about how ford jr. was raised in washington and not in tn, he had never held a job here, and at the end they said he is just not one of us, meaning he didn't share the values and goals of tennessee as a whole, etc. This ad was pulled because of a complaint by ford stating it was racist, despite the fact that more than one black person was in the corker ad!!! Now harold ford jr.'s dad recently was heard calling some white people crackers, haha but guess what he caught very little flack over that. So why don't you explain to us, being a black man and all, what it's all about? Why is is alright for white people to be called crackers or honky's etc on tv (such as shows like the jefferson's proved) and yet the n word is so bad, while at the same time, I hear it all the time in rap music and I hear in person black people referring to each other as such constantly. I don't call my white buddie's honkies, so I just dont' get what the fuss is about. In the end, it's time to not study others opinions are or what they wear, and simply hold your own beliefs. If you see a flag and don't like it, look the other way. Here in town, we have a african street festival every year. Guess what it's about black heritage I don't go and protest it, I don't raise hell because they are doing it, instead I realize it has no relevance to my life, so I don't go HAHAH.

[ATC-Eric]

This has been a good read. Thanks for bringing this post back.

[LonesomeTriZ]

Waterpumper, you hit one of the many nails right on the head right there. And 2strokes you are correct also. There are a bunch of ignorent trash that seems the think the flag has something to do with rednecks. If only those ignorent dumb asses spent some of there time educating themselves, a lot of these misunderstandings would be avoided.

[85ytz250n]

I was kinda thinking this post was just going to drift quietly into the archives never to be seen again. Guess I was wrong. There are alot of opinions expressed on this thread that make excellent points, and then there are some that just make you go, huh? Its easy for the school to say no to something like this, afterall our rights are trampled every day, legally and with the help of our government. It is much easier to tell one white girl no than to deal with all the *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* that would hit hit the fan if they said yes, and we know the easy way is the only way for people like this.

Race is a whole nother issue, and one that we have been conditioned to belive is taboo to talk about. I say bullshot to that, if I wanna talk about something I talk about it, if it offends you then turn around and walk off, or scroll up, or whatever it takes to make youself happy. We are so scared as a society that we not only allow behavior that is reprehensible, but we make excuses and blame it on anything but the real problems. Its ok to have colleges that dont accept whites but if you tried to have one with no blacks it would get burnt to the ground. You can have an organization that is for the advancement of colored peoples, but if you have a pro white organization you must be skinheads or nazi's, you cant be proud to be white or want to celebrate your history and ancestors.

Well I think that is all for me, soap box is ready step right up.

Barry

[LonesomeTriZ]

YTZ, I feel your pain and I do agree with you. I do not give two shits what color somebody is. I care about the type of person they are. But the issue here is the fact that this is not a racial issue. Some dickheads out there make it one for absolutely no freaking reason at all. Like what ACTFOREVER believes. He has obviously had a string of bad experiences. For that I am sad to hear. However, the flag is a symbol and should not be confused with what ignorant trash use it for today, but rather what is was originally intended for. ATC, you must look past the ignorance of today and realize what a handful of some say and do has nothing to do with the rest of us who do believe and support the proud history of my flag. You yourself should understand if you serve this country as I do.

[85ytz250n]

I take it that you guys are not black, so take it from a black man that was raised in the south, Alabama to be exact. I spent about 5 years in S. C. serving in the military and trust me, it IS about HATE not Heritage. See I don't think that it would be a problem with the rebel flag except for from the begining, and everytime you turn on the TV or read a magizine about it or just real life experiences; Hate is whats being portrayed! Speaking again that I serve in the military I'm pretty sure nobody would have anything to say about wearing an American flag shirt to school. The point is this, the first article stated that any student could express their political veiws as long as it didn't disrupt the education process; you don't think it did? S.C. has if not the biggest pop. of blacks in the U.S. so no doubt at this school there were alot of students upset, that's like a powder kegg of TNT about to explode! Here again at SCHOOL! I think that would disrupt the education process! What people do at or on there private property is their business, public school is another thing. Folks, if America doesn't learn to get along with itself we will be divided and conquered by a far less people.

I guess what you mean is that to youit isnt about heritage. How can you say that this girl was hating instead of honoring her past? Just because the rest of the kids at her school didnt like it she should conform to their ideas of what is right to wear and what isnt? Well guess what, the rest of the country thinks atv's(three wheeled ones in particular) shouldnt be around. Are you going to conform to their ideas? I sure as hell aint. If i want to wear a shirt or ride a three wheeler then that is exactly what I am going to do. You dont see a school saying that the students cant wear malcolm x shirts or 2pac shirts. We all have different tastes, live and let live.

Barry

[LonesomeTriZ]

Let us not forget, a black man walked along side her and carried the flag. He knows the true history of the Confederacy.

[YAMA-MAMA]

One question, are those of you that wear the rebel flag still proud to fly the American flag?
I am a proud member of the United Daughters of the Confederacy raised by a carrier Marine OOOhRah! and married to an OCS Candidate in the US Army. You bet I am proud. I am also proud to fly the Flag that my ancestors fought for. Unfortunately, there is alot of ignorance surrounding the Battle Flag. Those of us that are actually educated about the War between the States are in the minority. All we can do is try to educate the young as to what the Battle Flag and the other confederate flags mean and ment to our ancestors. Not what the ignorant trash and hate groups have used it to symbolize. (BTW the Klan also uses the American flag just as prominently as the Confederate Battle Flag) Also note that any state in the south had a right to succeed from the union. (its in the constitution) Sorry hope I didnt stir it again. I will continue to wear my confederate buckle, my confederate heritage t shirts, have pride in my ancestors who fought for the south (and the north) and continue to try to enlighten the ignorant. Lest we forget.......

[threewheelin-feelin]

Waterpumper, you hit one of the many nails right on the head right there. And 2strokes you are correct also. There are a bunch of ignorent trash that seems the think the flag has something to do with rednecks. If only those ignorent dumb asses spent some of there time educating themselves, a lot of these misunderstandings would be avoided.

well the flag does kinda symbol a redneck to a certain degree...i mean most of the people in the south including blacks were farmers...and farmers i guess invented the whole redneck thing...and i aggree with your early post i also dont judge people by the color of there skin i just them by what type of person that are but i feel the confederate flag has many different meanings...and i believe alot of the younger people of today that display it are displaying them for the wrong reasons and probly dont know what the flag means anyway....and waterpumper your post was great....now i also display a confederate flag...i have one hanging from the rear view mirror of my truck and one on the wall in my room...now i have a few different reasons i display mine....1st or all... i dont fly this flag because im racist i have nothing against black people....im pretty tight with several blacks as well ... i have anchesters who faught in the war and its respect for them...i also see this flag as the symbol of the south and i live in virginia and my roots are here in the south my whole family is from virginia and north carlino and i love the whole southeast area...i dont mean this to sound like some dumb redneck...who wants everyone to thank im trying to be this rebel guy who dosent obey the law and does what ever i want but i do consider myself a rebel and no one is gonna tell me how to live my life...and the south started a rebellion for what they believed in and i have also done thet same thing and would do it again if i had too....i hope i dont sound foolish but thats just my 2 cents.

[LonesomeTriZ]

It does not symbolize what the term “redneck” as it has come to mean by today’s standards. I know what you are trying to get across however. But the flag was never about farmers any way. It was about the Southern people has a whole. The south was home to more than farmers. And to be more specific, the battle flag, which is the subject of this discussion, was about the soldiers. That was the flag they fought and died under. It was for them, the symbol of honor.

[El'Capitan]

Idk about the rest of you, but the only people i have seen displaying that flag have been rednecks/trailer trash.

[threewheelin-feelin]

It does not symbolize what the term “redneck” as it has come to mean by today’s standards. I know what you are trying to get across however. But the flag was never about farmers any way. It was about the Southern people has a whole. The south was home to more than farmers. And to be more specific, the battle flag, which is the subject of this discussion, was about the soldiers. That was the flag they fought and died under. It was for them, the symbol of honor.

yes i agree...i just think thats why alot of people thank its a symbol of being a redneck because i guess the south was mostly rednecks but yes it does not stand for redneck...i myself am as redneck as redneck can be but i would still be redneck wether i fly a confederate flag or not...and i thank people need to learn more about a person before they judge a book by its cover

[LonesomeTriZ]

It is truly a very sad fact. But the majority of the flags displayed are flown by the more ignorant. The history of its roots is fading away and soon only the more modern meanings will be seen. I know I have changed the minds of those willing to listen. But there is a large majority out there who do not like to be wrong. Even with proof right in front of their eyes they will refuse to see it. The history of the south will be lost to time unless the real history is taught in our schools and the truth is accepted by the stubborn.

[threewheelin-feelin]

It is truly a very sad fact. But the majority of the flags displayed are flown by the more ignorant. The history of its roots is fading away and soon only the more modern meanings will be seen. I know I have changed the minds of those willing to listen. But there is a large majority out there who do not like to be wrong. Even with proof right in front of their eyes they will refuse to see it. The history of the south will be lost to time unless the real history is taught in our schools and the truth is accepted by the stubborn.

very well said...i try to educate as many people about it as i can.

[gravelord]

ok, i see all mixed opinions, and ive even seen someone say basically, this country is ran like crap. the government is the problem - if the south did indeed win, dont you think maybe things would be better? i sure think so. i live in new jersey yes, born in florida - and raised on a farm here. i get called "red neck" and all that crap - i dont believe in what they stereotype as rednecks etc etc, i work my ass off, im poor, and i live on a farm. well, yes, i do like the "rebel flag" "confederate flag" sure i might be alittle racist - maybe alittle more then a little - but you know what, its not because of the flag, its not because of where i was born, its not because of how i feel, or how my father was a biker, or any of that. they call it a rebel flag for a reason. it stands against what the government is now - and shows that there are people who believe the south should have won the war - weither they rise again or not - because people like me are poverty stricken, we still have faith and keep fighting. how about the blacks who weat black panther gear - they are still around. or the black biker gangs? theres one around here that are called "the black knights" all black guys, but date white girls and one that i knew got raped by them. should they be banned since they give blacks a bad rap? or how about the malcom x shirts, or black history month? malcom x was for black power and hated whites. ive seen a guy when i went to high school always wear one t-shirt that had malcom x on it. what if i wore a hitler t-shirt? i think some one should be able to wear WHATEVER THEY WANT no matter what it is - as long as they dont expose their sexual parts. this country has been surpressing EVERYTHING that makes an individual what they are, and if your not like every one else you WILL NOT be successful. so you MUST fit this government and societys mold or you will be in poverty from being cast out from the higher class. If you are born into a rich/higher class, you will be successful and stay in the higher class. if you arent born into it - there is almost NO way of working your way up. the economy has went to *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited*.

[ScottZJ]

Well I will have to say racism is not even on each side. You cant have an all white show, without a black person in it, but you can have a sitcom that is all black. But you know what, those sentences are racists in themselves. If you call someone a redneck, whitie, or even a white person that is racist and if you call someone african american, black or the N word that is racist. Each individual are here on this earth together. We are not a color, a race or creed, we are PEOPLE that are trying to strive and live. This nation has and was founded "Under God". We all should live in Godly manners and not worry about these petty garbage or what color a persons skin is. The media and movies have molded this country into what we are, and that is a scarry thing. We should be proud of our heritage and stand strong as individuals but we should also repect others as God would want us to. The problem is people take symbolizism too literally, such as with this flag.
Look at the Swastika, this symbol meant Life and Good Luck. The Buddhists and Hindus used this symbol all the time and still do. But because of one evil mad person(Hitler), people consider that symbol of hatred or death. People need to EDUCATE themselves on the symbols before passing judgement on them, as they are not evil only the way one person or group has portraded them is evil..............peace

[2strokes4life]

farming has nothing to do with being a redneck or flying that flag

[LonesomeTriZ]

I agree that race is made more of an issue than it should be. I do also believe the government has a hand in it. What the hell difference does it make what color some one is when they are filling out forms or applications? I understand that sometimes it is necessary for a physical description. That I can get. But I think it has nothing to do with anything else. If we as a whole stop making it an issue, it won’t be an issue. The U.S. is the only developed country left in the would that still focuses on race being a deciding factor. We should be look at one another as Americans, and nothing more.

This reminds me of a soldier in my last unit. He was part black and Mexican. He is light skin but looks as though he is of Hispanic decent. We were sent to Miami to help after a hurricane and he was asked on several occasions by the public down there what he is and why he does not speak to then in Spanish. His response was simple. “Because I am American” he would always say. He never viewed himself as black or anything else. He simply saw himself as an American.