The world just might as well end! These guys are at it again

[Bill X_R]

great here we go again

PICKERINGTON, Ohio -- The federal Consumer Products Safety Commission -- the agency that banned three-wheeled all-terrain vehicles in the 1980s -- will hold a new series of public hearings on ATV safety beginning in June, the All-Terrain Vehicle Association reports.

According to a notice published in the Federal Register today, the commission will hold a public hearing June 5 in Morgantown, W.Va. The hearing will begin at 10 a.m. at West Virginia University in the Robert C. Byrd Health Science Center.

The commission states that it is "concerned about the dramatic increase in ATV-related injuries and the continued increase in ATV-related deaths, and believes that holding a hearing will provide an opportunity for the interested public to share their concerns about ATVs and ATV safety."

The commission will take testimony on issues ranging from the availability of safety training to whether there should be "performance standards" set for ATVs. The commission notes that there has been an increase in the number of injuries to riders using ATVs with engine sizes of 400cc and greater.

The commission also will take testimony on a proposal by a coalition of groups made up of the Consumer Federation of America, the Natural Trails and Waters Coalition, the Bluewater Network and others seeking a ban on the sale of adult-sized ATVs sold for use by children under 16.

The coalition originally called for a ban on all ATV use by those under the age of 16 but the CPSC said that it could not enforce such a ban. ATVA Director Doug Morris noted that under a longstanding agreement between the ATV industry and the federal agency, only the smallest ATVs -- those with engines displacing 90cc or less -- have been sold for use by riders in that age group.

In addition, Morris questioned the motivation behind some of the groups involved in this attack on ATVs. He noted that the Natural Trails and Waters Coalition and the Bluewater Network have never had any involvement with, or interest in, ATV safety. Instead, their agenda has been to block access to public lands for ATV riders and others involved in motorized recreation.

"Including these anti-access organizations in this coalition makes for an odd alliance at the very least," Morris said, "since the interests of two of the coalition partners are in eliminating ATVs, not making them safer."

To testify before the Consumer Product Safety Commission in West Virginia, contact Rockelle Hammond, Office of the Secretary, Consumer Product Safety Commission, Washington, D.C., 20207. Tel: (301) 504-6833. Fax: (301) 504-0127. E-mail: rhammond@cpsc.gov.

You can also send written testimony until July 5 to Attn: ATV Hearing, Office of the Secretary, Consumer Product Safety Commission, Washington, D.C., 20207.

[YAMAHA_Jim]

Ummm,with all that said. People kill people,not ATV's. i always said ATV's should require somekind of an operators license to ride. Jr. licenses for the youngsters.Could you imagine if anyone could just jump in a plane and go flying. Guns kill more people than ATV's and no one is trying to eliminate them???

[Billy Golightly]

...Guns kill more people than ATV's and no one is trying to eliminate them???

I wish that were true Jim...

In my personal opinon, the CPSC and the greenie clubs backing them are going at ATVs again because they know their getting to be a big thing, real big, and they know if they don't do something to slow down the sales, they will NEVER have a chance at keeping them from destroying and ruining their beloved"Mother nature". I read something that ATV sales are almost doubling every year, and these greeheads know it. Whether they'll actually succeed this time around like they did last time around though is yet to be seen. I won't doubt it though if we see some sort of a ban on ATV's above 400cc from what I read in that article though. If that Happens, I bet pingers make a quick last stand :-)

[Bill X_R]

Yea?, I'm not sure what the fix all answer is????? You are correct though, guns kill more people, I'm sure there are more car accidents % wise, and another 1/2 dozen or so examples. I just effin' hate when somebody takes somethin away from me!!!!


Among other things, God gave us all one thing...


FREE WILL!!!!!


It's our choice to ride NOT someone elses

[Bill X_R]

By the way Jim...what the heck is that Avitar???? It freaks me out!

[Billy Golightly]

While cars do kill more people Bill, the greenies, the CPSC and others argue that cars are a necessity of transportation, and is there for something we must have. ATV's, however, are not, and is something dangerous that can be done away with. The way some people can even think is beyond me and makes me want to gag sometimes. Alot of these people truly are enough to gag a sack of maggots.

[YAMAHA_Jim]

I found the pic a few nites ago looking for pics of Grim Reapers.I thought it looked cool so I threw it up there. It matches the Blue Z :)

[TimSr]

Let me offer a very simple explanation: Hmm ATV injuries and deaths on the rise - Duhhhh Maybe its got something to do with the fact that ATV use and the number of ATV riders has increased drastically. In 1990 150,000 new ATVs were sold. In 2001 825,000 were sold. So if injuries and deaths increased by 700% it would mean there has been no change.

Lets see, an increase in injuries on machines 400cc and larger? Again DUUUHHH Am I the only one who has noticed how many more 400cc and larger quads are now being sold than just a few years ago. Of course there are more injuries on these machines now.

Anybody care to wager that home computer injuries have increased since 1990 when hardly anybody had one?

Licensing of cars cannot be compared to licensing of ATVs. The idea of licensing cars or planes is because of the safety threat you pose to others. The threat posed to others by incompetent ATV riders to OTHERS is SO much less, and the only reason they want to license them is A. REVENUE, and B. The more hassle and bureaucracy, the more people are discouraged from participating. And YES, some people do wish to abolish guns, and this is one of their most effective tactics.

Best thing CPSC can do is BUTT OUT!!!!!!

[YAMAHA_Jim]

Just for the record: I'm not opposed to guns.I just used that as an example.

[wanta250r]

Doctors kill a lot more people than guns roll

[sandrooster]

If there is a ban on 400cc and larger ATVs, whats going to be the fastest ride?
answer: 86KXT250 3wheeler. :shock::shock::shock:

Also, over half of all deaths related to firearms are suicides. Every year!(FBI crime statistics).
Maybe there should be a Federal law banning the use of firearms in suicide attempts.
Ohh, its already against the law. :rolleyes:

[atc's]

you know why not go after the snowmobiles cause a little kid with a saftey course can ride a 1000cc performance snowmobile but not ride a 400cc and above atv which only gos about half the speed of the sled come on wtf? i hear about alot more people killing them selves up state just within 4 months on there sleds than all year round on quads. so why not go after someone eles for a change?

[Jeb]

Fastest ATV is already the KXT250 3 wheeler! :-D j/k

I was afraid of this very thing when I first read spy stories of the raptor a few years ago. I thought my goodness, a 660 cc heavy engine in a light, tall 4 wheeler frame! 660 is a street bike size engine :shock: Inexperienced riders are going to want it for the mean looks and power. It's gonna hurt a few people. Now you've got the DS650, which i've ridden and it's fast and weighs a ton. You've got the Kawi 700cc twin with auto everything. to easy for the masses to ride, like the polaris sport 4wheelers. the KFX400 is fast and kind of tippy. Anyway I was so happy to see the revival in sport machines the last few years. and now you hear $h!t like this. Our society is way worse now than in 85. I've seen it the last few years. people riding with no shirt, in shorts with no helmet. letting kids ride adult ATVs, buying a 660cc Raptor for your wife to ride. It's all irresponsibility, but people should have the freedom to choose irresponsibility. But then the real problem is when something goes wrong it's, who can I blame and sue??? Not myself because Im a victim. personally I have allot of trouble seeing myself as someone who could be victimized. If your hauling @$$ or drag racing someone down a paved road on a Tri-Z or Blaster with no shirt and wearing shorts and you lose it and go to the hospital and they pick gravel out of your chewed up @$$ for 4 hours, I'm sorry it's your fault and not the ATVs. you see kids on this very board wanting to know whats faster whats faster. They don't want to enjoy getting out and trail riding or participate in orginized racing. They just want to beat there buddies from point a to point b in a straight drag race so they want a 250 two stroke 3 wheeler. so their willing to go from a BMX bike one day to an ATC250R or supe'd up banshee the very next day and try to ride it like Marty Hart. I guess it's just human nature to want to be fastest. But you know what? they should have the FREEDOM to do that if they choose. But then when they get hurt badly do they blame theirselves for their own actions? no, they play victim. There's a greater chance today of sport and child size ATVs getting banned and possibly a recall of 3 wheelers than there was of just banning trikes in 88. I think there will always be utility quads. What you guys in that area ought to do is schedule testimony in person or written of how you and your family safely enjoy ATVS regularly. If they only hear from the injured, the whiners and eco freaks, it will be 1985 all over again.

just my .02 :-D

[Billy Golightly]

I totally agree Jeb, if this is anything like the previous hearings the CPSC had before they started working on the Decree, They will host meetings all over the country to listen to testimony's and such. I believe there were 12 before. If theres one even remotely close here to me I will go to it. Like I said earlier, a ban on 400cc plus machines would not suprise me at all.

[Billy Golightly]

One more thing, Don't ANYONE underestimate these people. They have a VERY large amount of power for working on things like this. Not to mention that 99% of them are backed by Green organizations that spend their nights and days hoping that all the off-roaders could go away. Much like I spend my nights and days wishing they would go away.

[Jeb]

Billy you hit that nail on the head. Do not underestimate the CPSC. It just pisses me off because I've enjoyed off road riding safely since I was 9 years old on dirt bikes and 3 & 4 wheelers, just like many, many others. Way more than have been hurt by ATVs, yet the injured appear to the GP to be the majority. TimSr had a good point about the injury to owner ratio. it stays the same. I hate to see big brother tell me whats safe for me and my family all because of the help of a few whiners and eco freaks and groups of inconsiderate, irresponsible people who go riding "4 wheelers" and only worry about how much and what kind of beer to bring along. Though at the same time i do believe they should have that right to choose.

Speaking of Dirt Bikes, I'm glad I enjoy them and can ride them :-D Maybe all there is before too long.

[atc's]

hey jed not to start trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro or anything but there are no "organized" evnts around me so i do what i can to have my fun and i dont blame anyone but myself if i eat it doing 80 down the road my r. but you got to feel really stupid if you eatit going in a straight line lol. but even if there were organized events theres no way i could get my machine there anyway(no truck, no old man)oh by the way i am 16 not some 30 year old liveing with mommylol

[jenndnn3]

I will only add a few things here,
1. Please get out and vote these people outta office!!!
2. Join a club, there is strength in numbers, also there seems to be strength in who screams the loudest....yell louder!!
3. Stop sueing me for every tiny little scratch YOU have caused!! I am tired of paying for your stupidity....

[Jeb]

atc's if you eat it on your 250R going down the road at any speed and for any reason and it sends you to the hospital no matter who you blame you become an anti-ATV statistic and you do more harm for the sport than any good you could ever do.

#1 you were riding on public roads, which is illegal.
#2 it was on a high performance 3-wheeler
#3 your a minor

That all becomes documented fact.

have your fun, just be careful. I feel really sorry for you if you have no safe, legal riding areas close to your home or riding buddies to help transport your trike to riding areas. I hope your only choice to ride is not on the streets or trespassing on private land. makes me realize how fortunate i've been all my life. you don't have to have a truck to transport your 3 wheeler. I see lots of cars that have a trailer hitch and they haul their ATV or Bike around on a small single axle utility trailer.

Also, I'm not saying that all younger kids are irresponsible. The majority are responsible. Unfortunately its the ones that arent that get the press when it comes to ATVs and safety.

Oh yeah, it's JEB, not jed. :-D

[Billy Golightly]

This brings me to another topic which I think is wrong...

On the way back from my freinds house the other day, two of my freinds seen me and stopped me. Turns out they were on some sort of a Yami streetbike, early 90's. Now, I like these guys, their my freinds, but both of them had shorts on, tank tops, and no helmets. And they were bragging about how they were going over a 150 down this shitty little paved road we were on. I told them their going to kill themselves on it, no saftey gear, and going that fast down one of the sorriest roads in the county. Not to mention there were not motorcycle licenses. As far as I know thats the first time both of them had ever been on a sport bike. And to top it all off, it wasn't even theres, they were borrowing it from someone.

Now, call me a goodie goodie or what have you, but thats just plain out Bullshit, and they should have never been allowed to do so. For reasons just like that is why motorcycle insurance is so sky high. And why we keep getting more people against the general motorsports population. What would have happened if one of them screwed up and lost control at 150? They'd be dead, deader then the dirt you walk on.

[TimSr]

How many crash posts start with...."well, I let my buddy take it for a ride and..." Letting a novice rider on a high performance machine is idiotic.

Crashing on a straightaway doesnt take much when your doing 70mph.
Everyone know how annoyed I get with "gee, this one will only do 60, and that one does 75". These are offroad machines and arent designed to handle at 75. If you wanna cruise the highway get a street bike. Im geared very low, and I have yet to find the trail that allow me to top out, and I frequently race competitions.

Jeb hits it right on the head. Too much enphasis on "buying the fastest machine" instead of LEARNING to be the best rider. Even when I go trail riding, theres always a handful of idiots whose lack of riding talent confines them to drag racing back and forth through the parking area because theyre too incompetent to ride trails. A lot of guys could better spend their money on riding lessons than engine modifications. Even in amateur competition these clowns are always loking for something to buy that will give them an edge. and make them win without ever coming to terms with the fact that the guy winning is the best rider. If you havent learned to ride what you have to its full potential, mods are a waste of money. Thats where these idiotic "3 is always better than 4 because theyre faster" debates get started. If you actually rode 3 wheels on something really challenging, youd see the real differences. When you REALLY learn to handle your machine, THEN you will be able to run high speeds safely in the appropriate places.

And lastly, I can only ask, When will people ever learn that these stupid "I outran the cops" posts hurts every one of us, and thats what these anti's thrive on as their primary source of ammo for stricter, more intrusive regulations, and closing riding areas? They dont put your excuses and rationalizations into their statistics.

Irresponsibility is the source of all regulations which never solve the problems, but make life miserable for the rest of us. If you are an adult, you have the right to endanger yourself as much as you want, but please dont screw it up for the rest of us. Ride safely and responsibly!

[Andrew]

nothing will come of this,they cant ban ATVs or put performance restrictions on em,i guarantee u it would not slow any ATV owner down one bit twisted

[YAMAHA_Jim]

Just thought of this. Why is it that no one is debating the safety of streetbikes. Every year they get faster and more powerful,lots of people get killed on them also. I guess its b/c they dont go off road and tear up the woods like ATV's do.
...in other news,A few years back I was in a club that put on a few hare scrambles(Hudson Valley Off Road Riders).Our first race was cancelled a few weeks before the race b/c the treehuggers said if we had the race we would destroy the habitat for some kind of rare timber ant.Meanwhile the timber ants lived in trees and were destroying every tree they moved into but that wasnt a problem.It was just an excuse for us not to have a race.The next few years we had races on the next hill over from where the timber ants lived w/o a problem.The next problem we faced was that almost everyone in the town in the valley below complained about noise from the bikes/atv's.Needless to say we couldnt race there anymore either.The year after we had another race 30 miles away.It rained the whole week trailprotrailpro the race.It was as muddy as the blackwater100.This time we had to deal with some angry farmers.After the race all the mud and crap washed off the coarse and onto some of thier fields.We even went back and leveled out and reseeded the coarse after the race.That was the first and last time we raced there too.After 5 years of good racing the club called it quits b/c there was too much drama in trying to put on a race when all we got was environmental problems from everyone around us.Not too mention we didnt make alot of money after all the expenses were paid.Sad but true.
Sorry for the long story but its raining and I'm bored :)

[TimSr]

This one is simple, Jim. Street bikes and street bike riders already need a motorcycle drivers license, license plates, registrations, mandatory insurance, etc, so the government already has their hands in both pockets of street bike riders. This is what they would like to do with offroad vehicles. Its got nothing to do with safety, and its all about regulation and revenue.

[ATC crazy]

F*%K CPSC...If they ban 400cc+ ATV's, I will walk up to them and B*tch slap across their ugly trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro face. If there weren't so many dumb trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro riders I bet the CPSC wouldn't be all over us. I'm not even 16 yet and I have been riding just about every model ATV/ATC recommended for ages 16+ and I garun-damn-te ya that I can ride them better than the greenies can drive their cars.

[bigred110]

All you guys have a excellent point. Their should be a way where people should be appeal ride atv's to their capability and not what they think that they can handle. People who have never ridden a atv or atc shouldn't be a able to buy or ride one that is faster then what they think they can handle. People are going out buying the fastest quads that they can buy from the dealership because their friend got one and they want the same quad that they have. The bottom line is I think their should be a law where first time riders shouldn't be able to buy something that will just kick their ass instead of having fun. Should their be a max cc limit, NO. Should their be a law what a rider can buy with their experience, YES. Should their be a limit on how fast they can go, YES.

[ATC crazy]

Should their be a limit on how fast they can go, YES.

No No and No :twisted:

[REDMAN225]

from what i've read, atvs out sold street bikes again this past year and still(unfortunately) more people die and get hurt in motorcycle crashes every year than atvs. whats next....ban streetbikes,sportscars,childrens sports!?. the number of people riding atvs have increased drasticly in recent years. obviously there are going to be more atv related injuries. simple laws of probability. i hate seeing ignorant/misinformed people trying to make policy on something they know very little about. hey, i'm all for safe rules and regulations but lets be realistic here. most people ride atvs safely and without incident. just remember, most of the time we're our own worst enemy. ride smart, ride safe and join the ATVA! just my 2c

[J.D.]

And people say America is a free country. HA!

[KASEY]

i think there is a lot more atv riders with a lot LOUDER voice ,, so don't hold back if it comes to that!!!!

"I WILL KEEP AND RIDE MY ATV!!!!"

GAS EM UP GUYS ITS GOING TO BE A VERY BUMPY ROAD!!!! :D :D

[Joel85350X]

I think it is time to take action. Bans are made against a sport because the fans and participants do nothing about the ban event. If you notice on the original post there is an e-mail address to voice your oppinion. Last I checked there were a few hundred of us here at 3WW, and .ORG has a ferw more hundred, and exriders is almost at 10,000 members. All we need to do is highly suggest an e-mail or letter to these people for the hearing and basically overwhelm them with a negative response to their words. Who's in it with me? Make sure you do it right, have good grammar, and put your name and address on it, too. They have to know that we are real people with real rights.

I Think I'll go ahead and post this at EXriders.

[mymint87]

hmm let me see...100% of us die, sooooo.. how can anything increase THAT percentage?

[F7Firecat]

One thing comes to mind when reading the replys to this post speed!!!!!!! as so many of the posts say. I have been enjoying the sports of ATV`s, Dirtbikes, Street Bikes, PWC`s, Snowmobiles, ETC. for 20+ years the worst thing that ever happened to me was a rear tire on my 250r ran over my foot ( came into a corner too hot & foot slid off the peg ) which was my fault and my fault only. The problem with the sports is there are too many people ADULT AS WELL AS TEENS over riding their abilities, Going too fast & failing to wear proper saftey gear THIS SHOULD BE THE FIRST THING YOU PUT ON! we all have to remember we are on ATV`s and not in $250,000 sports cars that can stop on a dime & have handling as if they were on rails. I live in Wisconsin in Barron county. Here we have speed limits on the snowmobile trails 55 mph. & they are enforced quite radicaly there is also random stops from police to check for D.U.I which is another thing that plays a factor in your abilities. The only way to keep these people at bay is to play safe don`t be stupid, don`t drive beyond your abilities, try to wear at least minimal protective equipment, & keep the races in controlled areas. Don`t want to pi$$ anyone off but this is my 2 cents. Jim