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View Full Version : Tecate engine swap & build thread



cr480r
03-19-2007, 05:38 AM
I am trying to decide what engine to use for my 1st Gen tecate project. My choices are: 1984 KXT250 W/KX cylinder, 1985 KX250, or a 1991 KDX 250 W/ '88KX cylinder...

* If I use the '84 engine... I have to buy a piston, gaskets, swap the crank into good cases(i have them), get another T3 flywheel(or steal the '85 kx ignition again), buy another faded(ugly) tecate fuel tank, and live with a smashed up engine cradle...

* If I use the '85 KX engine.... I have all the parts for the engine. I would have to build a new engine cradle to allow for the center exiting exhaust . I also have to fix a couple dents in the pro-circuit pipe and bend the stinger around a bit... With enough bending It may fit with the gas tank I wanna use...

*If I use the '91 KDX250 engine... I still have to modify the trike frame, But I can rob the bikes original frame for the cradle. The FMF fatty pipe would fit very well, and allow ample clearance for the 1986 kdx200 gas tank that I really want to run. The '91 engine also has a better powervalve set-up, a wider ratio trans(which I think could be a good thing), a heavier flywheel(good on trails), and a headlight(good at night).. I hate to cut up a complete bike, but it needs more put into it than its worth to me as a running bike. Its ugly and way too heavy for a 250 IMO...

I am leaning towards using the KDX as a donor and selling off the left-over bike parts. I think the '85 KX250 engine may end up in my quadracer at some point... The original tecate engine would be the easiest to use, but is kinda ordinary and a bit pipey for extreme trail use, and the frame is already less than perfect... I may keep the Tecate engine parts and pipes around for another tecate build-up using a nicer frame...

Anybody care to share opinions? I am kinda hesitant to begin the frame mods, But I know I could pull it off with a few tack welds and the help of a local professional welder...

ccdhowell
03-19-2007, 08:41 AM
I like the KDX engine option for the reason you already stated. Go ahead and cutup the bike frame. Is it fairly straightforward to install the bike portion? Sounds like that's what you want, just do it, would be a nice trike when complete. How well does the KDX tank fit and look on the T3?

cr480r
03-19-2007, 09:14 PM
How well does the KDX tank fit and look on the T3?

Well I think it will look preety good. Its shorter and wider than the tecate tank. It should have enough clearance to allow a generous cut on the steering stops too. It wont work with the left-side tecate exhaust... As the low-side of the tank and the fuel petcock is on the left... My tank is a lil faded, but I began sanding a small spot and the color came right back.

EDIT: The KDX tank needs a customized seat to look right... I didnt have a seat when I began building so I didnt realize...

cr480r
03-19-2007, 09:29 PM
Is it fairly straightforward to install the bike portion? Sounds like that's what you want, just do it, would be a nice trike when complete.

They looked pretty close when I put the frames side by side... . I am just not sure what the strongest way to join them will be. Without too much trouble I think they will match up and look pretty good really. I am mostly worried about the durability... I ride fast, but I dont often jump very high on 3 wheels... so I think it should be fine if its done correctly... I would like to find some pictures of frames that have been modified to get an idea of the correct methods .

BigGreenMachine
03-19-2007, 09:34 PM
I vote KDX. WOuld be a nice trail machine with some power. Much more suited to woods then the 84 T3. I have an engine cradle you can have for cost of shipping. Its a KX500 cradle but it should work. I'll cut off the bottom mounts as one is broken and its been fixed using a washer.

BigGreenMachine
03-19-2007, 09:40 PM
Joining frames is easy. Find a bolt that fits snug inside the frame tubing, cut the head off and tap it in the old frame so that the new section of frame can be slid over it. Leave about an eigth of space between the two frames so the bolt is exposed and weld the groove. Its called sluggin the frame and is ultra strong. Also a good idea to plug weld the bolt in the frame.

cr480r
03-19-2007, 10:30 PM
I vote KDX. WOuld be a nice trail machine with some power. Much more suited to woods then the 84 T3. I have an engine cradle you can have for cost of shipping. Its a KX500 cradle but it should work. I'll cut off the bottom mounts as one is broken and its been fixed using a washer.

If I use the '85 KX engine..I may be interested in the cradle... But If I use the KDX engine, I may as well use the cradle I have... since the frame is useless without the engine..

cr480r
03-19-2007, 10:33 PM
Joining frames is easy. Find a bolt that fits snug inside the frame tubing, cut the head off and tap it in the old frame so that the new section of frame can be slid over it. Leave about an eigth of space between the two frames so the bolt is exposed and weld the groove. Its called sluggin the frame and is ultra strong. Also a good idea to plug weld the bolt in the frame.

This is the kinda info I am looking for.. It makes perfect sense. Would a MIG weld be strong enough? I am a decent welder(when I practice)...But I would rather blame someone else if it breaks...lol..

BigGreenMachine
03-20-2007, 09:24 AM
MIG is perfect for it CR. Any shop can do it if you'd rather them look after it.

With the slug and good penetration it will be plenty strong.

hadar
03-20-2007, 09:51 AM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the KDX motor have a shorter stroke than the 88kx? I allways thought it did.

cr480r
03-20-2007, 10:24 AM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the KDX motor have a shorter stroke than the 88kx? I allways thought it did.

Its a KDX 250 that I am using.. They are both 67.4mm X 70mm... You may be thinking of the KDX 200/220...

hadar
03-20-2007, 10:59 AM
Its a KDX 250 that I am using.. They are both 67.4mm X 70mm... You may be thinking of the KDX 200/220...
Yep, I was.

cr480r
04-23-2007, 01:35 AM
Its final. I am using the KDX/KX 250 engine and cradle. The frame is going under the knife in 2 weeks. I had talked myself out of the swap(I was scared), until my old high school buddy offered to trade labor with me. He is a great fabricator. He builds dwarf car and dune buggy frames for fun and will make short work of my little project...

BigGreenMachine
04-23-2007, 10:37 AM
Sweet! Sounds like a good build for sure! That motor is going to be strong.

cr480r
05-12-2007, 08:17 AM
The frame work has begun... It isn't going to be as simple and clean as I had originally thought.. but I am still pleased with it... The build-up will begin very soon...

cr480r
05-15-2007, 03:48 AM
Pictures coming very soon... Nothin special to see, but I am very excited to start building finally... Been a whole year without a trike...The engine cradle is together(minus footpegs)and I still need to do a quick mock-up so brackets can be built for the fuel tank and pipe... then its time for paint...

cr480r
05-15-2007, 07:56 PM
Well I think everything is going to work fairly well... Here is my first mock-up...
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/kdxtecate005.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/kdxtecate004.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/kdxtecate003.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/kdxtecate002.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/kdxtecate001.jpg

BigGreenMachine
05-15-2007, 08:23 PM
Now that is too cool. This bike is going to be fast and a great trail rider!

I want one!

So thats just the KDX cradle on the T3 frame?

BigGreenMachine
05-15-2007, 08:30 PM
A little cut and twist on the last two sections of the headpipe and you could have it out of frame and save the airbox.

That tank will let you get full lock?? Looks like it will at least. Nuts!

This going to be a trail bike or?

cr480r
05-15-2007, 08:38 PM
Here are a couple more pics... The kdx cradle lets me use the factory lower and front engine mounts as well as the lower pipe mount... The silencer stinger will have to be custom, but the pipe fits as is... the radiator hoses will even connect...with one splice(good place for a inline cooler or temp guage:naughty: ) the tecate shifter and kicker are going to work... I may use a different elbow for the rear coolant hose so I can use the original tecate intake manifold as clearance is kinda tight for a airfilter with this one...
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/kdxtecate007.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/kdxtecate006.jpg

BigGreenMachine
05-15-2007, 09:08 PM
I've seen some trails from Oregon, very similar to the trails we have here. Wish I had the sand you guys have!

So this machine will run the big KDX/Tecate flywheel?

cr480r
05-15-2007, 09:23 PM
I've seen some trails from Oregon, very similar to the trails we have here. Wish I had the sand you guys have!

So this machine will run the big KDX/Tecate flywheel?

Yes...definately... I wanted a headlight so I can play at night... I am going to run a '88kx cylinder because the bore and powervalves in the kdx cylinder were wasted. And I am running the kx head because it has the head stay on the rear like the tecate...(the kdx was a perimeter frame) The tecate upper mounts could work with a spacer and one slotted hole, but I am just going to build new ones...According to my research the '88 kx had good low-mid powerband.. so It should work well with the kdx ignition and wider trans ratios... I need to put a connecting rod in the bottom end(I already have it), but besides that I have everything for the motor... New gaskets, seals, piston, reeds, p-valves are like new... I am pretty stoked...

BigGreenMachine
05-15-2007, 11:23 PM
Cool. Am I right when I say you can get 310 kits for the motor combo you have in there now? THAT would be the dogs nuts IMO. Such a great woods motor.

You realize also now that KDX skidplates should work for you, possibly bolt right on.

Man I'm jealous. haha

cr480r
06-01-2007, 03:41 AM
The tank mounts, upper exhaust tab, footpegs, and new steering stops are finished.... no pics yet as I didnt have my camera handy... My newest decision to make is rather or not to use the tecate rear suspension.... If I do use the original suspension... I would need to buy all new linkage bearings and also rebuild the rear shock... So I am strongly considering grafting on the shock and linkage from the donor bike(which is in great condition)... The suspension part of the swap would be fairly straight forward, but it would require buiding a custom intake tract... Basically, I would have to slighly modify the frame to allow use of the original carb boot from the bike, then use the original intake boot from the bike to get around the shock to a custom made airbox that was small enough to fit inside the tecate sub-frame... money is tight for me right now so I am leaning towards using what I already have and going the custom route... What do you guys think?

cr480r
06-05-2007, 06:17 PM
The kdx shock would provide 16 way adjustable compression, and 16 way adjustable re-bound settings... the thing I am leary of is the original 12.2" of travel the kdx has...My +4" tecate swingarm is about 1.5" shorter than the bike swinger so it should reduce the travel some... Is that too much suspension travel for a trike?

BigGreenMachine
06-05-2007, 06:42 PM
Thats only approx 3 inches more then stock.

cr480r
06-05-2007, 06:51 PM
Thats only approx 3 inches more then stock.

Think its worth doing? It would save me some money...

BigGreenMachine
06-05-2007, 07:58 PM
If you can handle it yeah but I think I'd be ebaying the 300EX shock and do the linkage bearings as money allowed.

200x Basket
06-05-2007, 08:09 PM
i think i would put on the worn stock stuff until i could afford to go custom or rebuilt. the worn stuff is free and ready to bolt on!!!!

nice conversion!!!!!!!!!!!!

BigGreenMachine
06-12-2007, 03:06 PM
Any progress pics? Going to stuff the K5 motor in mine.

cr480r
08-22-2007, 04:00 AM
Pictures coming soon... I decided to use the rear shock and linkage from the donor bike after all... I think its gonna work out pretty sweet...It's coming together rather well... Even though it probably wont show in pics...My buddy has really been helping me out with this build... He has abilities and tools that allow me to make this project fun... So far I am using parts from a '84 KXT, '85 KXT, '85 KX250, '86 KDX200, '87 Mojave, '88 KX250, and a '91 KDX250... This machine definately has green roots....

BigGreenMachine
08-22-2007, 10:10 AM
Frankentrike, oh so cool.

scooterroo
09-04-2007, 08:20 PM
damn didnt even see this thread....awesome project your doing cr....you should have some serious sterring with that tank on there. keep us posted.

cr480r
09-04-2007, 08:46 PM
Thanks scoot.. I havent had a chance to work on the trike or get pics yet... I had been busy getting my quadracer 250 ready for labor day weekend... I ended up scattering my engine on the first day of my 3 day dune trip... it was running great too... Anyways, the trike does have quite abit more steering than stock, in fact i have to figure out how to route the radiator hoses so they dont kink when turning hard...

cr480r
10-22-2007, 03:44 AM
Well I dont have any progress photos yet, and I dont have access to the bike til my buddy gets back from hunting.... But I am still trying to get things to come together soon... After a closer inspection of my '88 cylinder I have decided not to use it... The plating is starting to flake, and the power valves are showing some wear on the gears(and they are no longer available new).... So I have purchased a '98 KX250 topend and crank to retrofit into my cases... should be quite a lil ripper.. I hope it works well with my pipe.

cr480r
11-21-2007, 08:28 AM
Well... I have a nice lil blister on my index finger from spray painting on my frame... So... I should finally have something to show you guys tonight or tomorrow... :w00t: I can tell you now that she won't be very pretty... I am building it to actually ride(and I am quite hard on equipment). But at least you guys will know what I have been working on all this time... I am hoping for it to make its maiden voyage to the sand by sunday...we'll see... I still have a complete motor to assemble :wondering and its currently sitting as just a bare frame...:eek:

cr480r
11-22-2007, 09:11 AM
Here are some pictures of my completed frame... Its a little dusty from sweeping the floor, and I got my fingerprints all over it when I was puting the new headset races in.... I am excited.. now the fun begins....:w00t:

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/t3frame001.jpg

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/t3frame002.jpg

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/t3frame003.jpg

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/t3frame004.jpg

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/t3frame005.jpg

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/t3frame006.jpg

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/t3frame007.jpg

tecat-z
11-22-2007, 02:33 PM
Wow, liking the progress on the frame. Looks like you have done your homework on this one. Or, lots of learning along the way. Either way it looks like it's going to be a nice custom build, that's sure to be one of a kind. Any rough date for completion? Keep us posted.

BigGreenMachine
01-22-2008, 09:13 PM
That linkage setup looks like it went on easy enough. Too cool!

Progress?

cr480r
01-24-2008, 08:16 AM
That linkage setup looks like it went on easy enough. Too cool!

Yes the linkage went on very easy. Its actually installed incorrectly in the pics... I just centered the engine, and re-located the lower tabs... The hardest part was building the upper shock mount. For the swingarm part of the linkage I stole the bearings and seals from the KDX swinger and made a steel tube on a lathe to house them. Then my buddy welded the tube onto the tecate swingarm in the appropriate location...


Progress?

Yeah some... It runs now, but I havent ridden it yet... I am waiting on some rear hubs, and I need to swap some tires and wheels around. I also still need to make a seat cover for custom seat that I had to make to work with my gas tank. After I ride it(hopefully everything works)I will start working on the finishing touches such as: new swingarm bearings, front wheel bearing dust seals, front brake caliper bracket, rear bumper,rear brake pads, better chain slider, new front sprocket, new plastics, headlight/taillight, fork oil, etc

OZQUAD44
01-24-2008, 09:54 AM
Piccies piccies Pix Pix Pix :-P

cr480r
02-07-2008, 04:42 AM
Here are some progress pics for ya guys... I am nearly ready to test ride it... I am missing lug nuts, front brakes, and a seat(I can test without)... I need to do some customizing for the seat to work with my fuel tank... My fenders are obviously complete junk, i just set them on to give a general idea... I hope to have a nice set of white fenders from thetecatekid in the near future...

My forks appear bent in this photo for some reason... they arent...
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/480001.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/480002.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/480003.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/480006.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/480007.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/480008.jpg
Custom intake needed due to the lack of clearance... it seals to the carb with an o-ring...
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/480009.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/480010.jpg

BigGreenMachine
02-07-2008, 07:31 AM
Very impressed here! Great work!

That stance sure looks agressive sitting there.

Awsome!

cr480r
02-07-2008, 07:35 AM
Thanks BGM... I hope it performs well... my main concern is the gearing...

BigGreenMachine
02-07-2008, 03:14 PM
For the fenders, the next time I buy some it will be stock style Blaster fenders. Pretty sure you can get them in green and they are square to match the chunky square look of the T3. Not to mention the clearance for a rearward kickstart.

cr480r
02-07-2008, 06:14 PM
I am thinking I wanna go white... i love green, but a new set of green fenders will probably make my 22 year old fuel tank look nasty.. blaster fenders would probably look sweet though...

BigGreenMachine
02-07-2008, 06:19 PM
Here are some mounted on a YZ426 conversion.

cr480r
02-07-2008, 06:45 PM
Those blaster fenders look pretty good, but honestly I like the look of your '86 rear fenders better... are you gonna put that thing back together? Or just 2-wheelers for now?

BigGreenMachine
02-07-2008, 07:06 PM
It's going back together this summer. The 500 lump I bought is just that, a lump. So quietly it all sits in my basement waiting for me to rebuild it again. Need another 500 motor, possibly a modern 250...but that stuff won't come until summer.

cr480r
02-07-2008, 07:16 PM
what about your perimeter frame KX500 project?

BigGreenMachine
02-07-2008, 07:44 PM
KX is half in my closet and half downstairs. Guy sold me a basket case. It'll sit until it sells or I build something from it.

hadar
02-07-2008, 08:26 PM
Looks great. Those white fenders would look sweet on that bike. That intake is wicked.

cr480r
02-08-2008, 06:33 AM
well I rode it some tonight... without a seat and with some old crappy 22" tires on it... With the stock gearing 13/42... it felt a lil bit tall, but it should be about perfect with the tires I am gonna run. I didnt get a chance to tap into any of the power as it was dark out and my lit up riding area was kinda small... But I was happy to find that the engine has a ton of off-idle power and a very smooth operating clutch. I can already tell this bike is going to be very easy to ride in the tight stuff... I cannot wait to mix a fresh batch of fuel and do some tuning...


Looks great. Those white fenders would look sweet on that bike. That intake is wicked.

Thanks hadar.. The intake was made as a easy solution to a problem that could have easily been avoided... I tilted the shock forward an inch from its original position on the bike to simplify building the new upper mount... not realizing it didnt leave room to use the original rubber intake boot from the donor bike... And there was not enough room to clamp a rubber hose onto the intake bell, so a ring was made on a lathe to fit over the carb and seal with a small o-ring. It probably doesnt even need the o-ring as the clearance is so tight I had to use grease to get it over the carb... I figured the tube would rattle against the frame since it was so close, so I mounted it rigid... Its definately not an ideal set-up, but it was the best I could do at the time..


It's going back together this summer. The 500 lump I bought is just that, a lump. So quietly it all sits in my basement waiting for me to rebuild it again. Need another 500 motor, possibly a modern 250...but that stuff won't come until summer.

I would put the 500 in the KX and put a newer 250 in the trike... IMO a 500 makes too much power for an atv.... bikes feel much safer...

.

cr480r
02-10-2008, 02:39 AM
Here is a lil video my friend took of me trying to get familiar with the Tecate... I still need to do some tuning... the carb came straight off my quadracer and I havent changed anything yet..

http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=27993547

BigGreenMachine
02-10-2008, 11:52 AM
Looks like its running great. Nice wheelies lol

3Razors
02-10-2008, 12:10 PM
Pretty creative build...I like it!

droopie31
02-10-2008, 02:54 PM
Man that last run up the hill you were git'n it! I have been secretly watching this build closly, I must say it came out fantastic!:beer



drew

Dirtcrasher
02-10-2008, 06:06 PM
Man, I love that ductwork you made up for the air intake!! Came out excellent!!

cr480r
02-10-2008, 10:02 PM
Thanks guys.. This thing is startin to grow on me... I cant wait til I get all of the bugs worked out and get it looking a lil bit cleaner... This was the first time I have ridden a powerful trike on sand... Its probably going to my primary ride from now on!!!! I hardly even miss my quadracer...

cr480r
08-19-2008, 05:03 PM
bump for hoosier

Hoosier_Daddy
08-19-2008, 07:09 PM
Sweet build. Loved the video. You know how to ride some good wheelies. lol

OZQUAD44
08-20-2008, 08:20 AM
Great build CR, loved how you kept it all green.

Got any recent photos?

cr480r
08-20-2008, 09:47 PM
Great build CR, loved how you kept it all green.

Got any recent photos?

I like my Hondas, But I love green.....lol...

My buddy broke my subframe pretty good, so I have changed to no rear fenders and a dirtbike seat for now.. The tecate seat was too wide IMO to be used without fenders.... I may eventually look into a KFX450 seat, fenders, and subframe... I will get some pics of my newest cobbled set-up this weekend

bonkers_200s
08-24-2008, 11:46 AM
"I think he spends the whole time look at his roost", "He does".



Who doesn't???:P

cr480r
12-20-2010, 01:15 AM
A couple pics from '08 that belong in this thread:
http://forums.everything2stroke.com/picture.php?albumid=113&pictureid=710http://forums.everything2stroke.com/picture.php?albumid=113&pictureid=705http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/justinriolo/tecateaxle001.jpg

cr480r
12-29-2014, 02:30 PM
In 2012 I put this engine into a 1994 KX500 chassis I assembled from 3 bikes that I bought over the summer. This year I bought a seized 1989 kx250 for the nice 46mm conventional forks and blue excel wheels. I swapped them onto the '94.
209471
Two weeks ago I purchased a pile of 1985 tecate parts. Some pretty nice stuff , and combined with my other leftovers I now have most needed for a conventional 1st gen build. But after looking back thru this old thread I start missing this old trike again:( .. I especially miss the stepped seat, tank, and incredible turning lock it allowed... Even with a +4 swinger it would damn near turn a circle in its own length... Someday maybe I'll get it goin again. I do have a 89 kx250 core that would directly bolt in.... Also have kx500 stuff... Decisions...

onformula1
01-03-2015, 04:36 AM
Thanks for the update, more, more, more!