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View Full Version : Raptors vs. 400ex



OldSchoolin86
10-22-2002, 04:45 PM
Let's be real hear. By the time you buy one of these mosters you already have over a $1000 more into it than a 400ex. If you put that money into the 400ex you could have a real nice 440ex that could beat a Raptor no problem. And by the time you spend the money into a Raptor to get it to handle good like the 400EX you could have made a 500ex that would destroy a Raptor. What's the point?

TimSr
10-22-2002, 05:02 PM
The point is you wouldnt be on a Honda!!!! Someday Ill build my quad Z and unload this TRX250R!

karnivore660r
10-22-2002, 05:20 PM
:D I'm with TimSr.


And by the time you spend the money into a Raptor to get it to handle good like the 400EX you could have made a 500ex that would destroy a Raptor

Yeah, but what are you going to do when the next guy wants to race you and your using duct tape to keep your engine together? :-P

I've been down the big bore road and I'm not going there again unless I win the lottery and can affort my own pit crew.

The most I'm ever going to do to the raptor is pipe it (done) and maybe drop a cam and springs in.

Keep the motor reliable and go with handling mods only! That's the way to go! :idea: Write that down you'll want to keep that in mind when your fixing that air cooled honda motor. And if you think the 440 is reliable I'll bet ya a new piston for it if it lasts a good riding year, not the take it out once every couple months that you do. I've have many 440 owners tell me personally it is a big waste of money!

karnivore660r
10-22-2002, 05:26 PM
:arrow: I want to add one more thing. I know you where excited that your piped and jetted ex hung with the stock raptor but the raptor wasn't having it's best day either. I was running a dial-a-junk (dial-a-jet) without rejetting and was running way rich. She puffed a couple times during the race so were just gonna have to have a rematch at the Badlands. :twisted:

OldSchoolin86
10-22-2002, 07:12 PM
Nice try Craptor boy! Why is is everytime I make someone machine look bad they have exucuses? Sad.

There is nothing unreliable about a 440 kit. They were proven strong before the 400EX was even born. Mickey Dunlap has a 500ex in pro-productin class that doesn't require duct tape.

Hey Craptor boy! Why did a 260cc smaller motor keep up to you? If Honda had a 660 it sure wouldn't be that pokey. lol Oh yeah you've got that dial a schmuck!

10-22-2002, 09:59 PM
wow "craptor boy"! :D :rolleyes: your really graspin for straws!

just because it is a 660 doesn't mean it will go 100mph. For future reference besides Hp there's this other little factor to motor's called "torque".

I think the only one that looked bad was you. i was runnin bone stock and you had to pipe, jet and cam just to play with the big dog.

Mickey Dunlap...ROFLMFAO! Suuure...you get that 500 kit from "One Lap Dunlap" and while your fixing your quad I'll still be riding my stock bore and sleeve.

If Honda had the B@LLS to make a decent quad again maybe you wouldn't be riding that "pokey" quad. :D if anything you should be held accountable for giving Honda a reason to keep making that EX-Mini bike!

BTW, the dial-a-jet would be a accessory if you change altitudes frequently and jet accordingly for it.

karnivore660r
10-22-2002, 10:52 PM
Hey, Oldfoolin! I was inspired by your original post of "craptor boy" so here ya go!

OldSchoolin86
10-22-2002, 10:55 PM
How could someone possibly look bad with 260cc less than you that's keeping up with you? That's just crazy. I never camed my motor either. All I did was install a slip-on, a K&N and jet it. That's all I had to do to play with the big bad Craptor.

Who had to get shocks already because thier over weight quad was bottoming out all over the place? Who had to replace thier axle? Who wants a wider front end? If you want to say you have the big cc's get a Yamaha, you want the best handling get a Honda.

How could Yamaha screw up so bad with 660cc's Craptor Boy?

karnivore660r
10-22-2002, 11:11 PM
HAHAHA! What a joke! cry me a river! I didn't HAVE to do any of this stuff I just like to mod my chit! Why don't you go cry to the pro's about them having $25,000 custom made quads and that you want to race your stock ex in the pro-class?

Ya! big overweight quad...hmmm..it's like 25lbs heavier than a 400ex. A foolblunderedEX will weigh that much more when I flush my crapter on it! :D

OldSchoolin86
10-22-2002, 11:51 PM
Got to do better than that Craptor boy! Who puts a stock ex up in the pros? By the way let's not forget what company these pros are basing there geometry from, HONDA.

karnivore660r
10-23-2002, 09:52 AM
:rolleyes: yeah, I NEED to do better than that!? HA!

I never said that the raptor handled better than a 400ex but it handles awesome for my purposes. Like I said in a previous topic I don't really care if I lose a second or two in a corner I will never race professionally to where that would even make a difference. I bet your little rice burner handles well too but if you drop a 350 in there it would be a different story. LOL

I thought I told you to write down what I posted before; It's better to keep your engine close to stock and work on the handling if you want an everyday reliable ridable quad. Also, you are obviosly suffering from ADD and forgot that there is more to 660cc's than HP it's called "TORQUE"!

So what else do you got besides your one trick pony?

karnivore660r
10-23-2002, 10:18 AM
After some research I've found a picture of Honda's R&D engineers that designed the 400ex!

They seem to be the brightest engineers to ever grace Honda.

http://ehowa.com/pic/headoftheclass.jpg

Big Darn Mike C
10-23-2002, 01:06 PM
The funny thing is, you could spend thousands on your big bore kits to beat a STOCK Raptor, but all he has to do is spend a few hundred on a high comp piston and a cam to put himself right back on top+ the pipe and jetting he already has. I don't know who or where you guys are racing, but I have never seen a 400EX come even close to beating the following machines: Banshee (what can?), Raptor, DS 650, and yes the Z 400. The first time I ever saw the Z 400 was when it was smoking a 400EX up the hill. If you are racing in areas where traction is imperitive,and the best rider is on the EX and the wosrt on the other machine, then I can see it. But lets not kid ourselves, at 26 hp, the 400EX is NOT fast and consistantly will not beat any of these other machines. I like the 400, it is one of my favorite machines, but it's not fast

350Xrider
10-23-2002, 09:55 PM
Uphill 400ex's suck balls. They do not have hardly any torque either. I don't care what anybody says a 350X will beat a 400ex, especially uphill, on a 350X uphill you will be in 3rd and the 400ex in second wide open and there is a good chance of having to hit first. I mean the 400ex is kind of disapointing to me, they have a 16 year old 350X that is just as advanced as a brand new 2002 400ex and will out do and is more all around more sensible to own. I mean the gearing is just to high on the 400ex. The 350X has everything the 400 has except a dry sump oiling system which I think is stupid, because then you just have even more oil lines running to possibly catch on sticks and such. I could go on and on but I won't. I also am not putting down the 400ex, but it just isn't up to par, I mean reliability and fun wise it is a great bike, but in stock and even slightly modified form it is a joke for a bike of that size.

86waterpumper
10-24-2002, 10:13 AM
I haven't ridden a 400ex but I thought they were geared low I know they top out around 60, because I've beaten one top end on a kawasaki 650 vtwin 4x4 hehe

karnivore660r
10-24-2002, 11:30 AM
Personnally, I know the 400ex is an awesome quad. You just should never try to disrespect somebody else's ride. It ain't cool. 8)

Ol' Dirty 533
10-24-2002, 12:16 PM
Whether you got a 400EX a 660R or a mini-bike it doesn't matter, people get whatever machine they get to ride and have fun for themself. I could see if your a Pro racer and want to talk smak about each other's quads and who's faster but I don't think the disputers here are Pro, so just be happy that you have a machine and the ability to ride and keep on rid'n because that's what you like to do and it makes you happy! 8)

OldSchoolin86
10-24-2002, 03:52 PM
Ol' dirty:
Your right but we're having fun here.

Big Mike:
The funny thing is you don't have to spend thousands on big bore kits to beat a Raptor. You can make a 400ex beat a Raptor for about a grand. I made mine run with them for only $600.

350Xrider:
Why is it every time someone talks about 400ex's you 350x guys have to start talking crap? 350X's are glorified dinosaurs. I have yet to have one beat me. Why don't you post a 350x/400ex debate? I could bust your balls all day on that subject. I think it would be a good one.

Karnivore:
So are you going to put Honda decals on that Craptor when you’re done trying to make it handle like a quad that cost $2000 less than yours?

For the Record:
Before this gets any farther I want you guys to know that this whole thing was started so I could bust my buddies balls about his Raptor. I don't plan on stopping soon either. So if you want to Participate that's great but you have to know that I love all off-road machines. I think all the ones we talk about are just fine.

Ol' Dirty 533
10-24-2002, 04:07 PM
All I know is God made dirt and dirt bust your azz!
:evil:

karnivore660r
10-24-2002, 04:22 PM
:D you can't bust my b@lls when your riding a 400ex. I got b@lls of steel forged from the same fire's that the almighty raptor is from. :D

btw o'dirty, if god rode an atv it would be a raptor!

Ol' Dirty 533
10-24-2002, 05:01 PM
I'm still looking for a reasonable answer why that Raptor or 400EX didn't jump this tiny little double out at Haspin Acres?? :?

karnivore660r
10-24-2002, 05:08 PM
uhhhh...cuz god made dirt and dirt will bust ya azz...if you hit it hard enough.

I'll definitly hit it on round 2!

Big Darn Mike C
10-24-2002, 07:03 PM
ok fine, you spent $600 to barely hang with a STOCK Raptor. I don't know how it is in your area, but here, nothing is stock. So while you can "hang" with a stock Raptor, that's about it. You can't beat a stock raptor and you sure as hell can't hang with a Raptor that has any work done to it. Another thing, 400EX's do handle good, but not that good so I doubt any Raptor men are out there spending loads of cash trying to make their Raptor's handle like 400's. I think 400EX guys just walk around with a chip on their shoulder because they know that their 400's are slugs but are in denial about it, that's why they always start these debates, because they are really still trying to convince themselves that they are happy with there machines. my two friends both bought 400EX's at the same time I bought my Banshee, and after riding with me they are both selling there 400's in favor of Banshee's. One is actually debating a Raptor or Banshee. either way, it's a step up from a 400. BTW, I'm just having fun with this too, in no way do I take this very seriously, but I do mean what i say.

10-24-2002, 10:58 PM
I've rode them all buddy and I bought mine new so don't worry about me trying to convince myself of anything. I passed on the Yam. The only Yams I like will be on the table in a month. ;)

karnivore660r
10-24-2002, 11:43 PM
Big Darn Mike C is absolutly right. If you was fine with the 400ex you wouldn't have even needed to start this post. I think somebody is suffering from "little quad" syndrome. Your best bet would be just to let this post die and hope everybody forgets it.

:idea: Just step away from the crack pipe!

3WheelHouston
10-25-2002, 12:37 AM
I think it's all about where you ride. I mean my style is dead speed and big air with a short start, so I think I'd want the power over the cornering. Besides, there's something incredibly scary about slaloming with trees. ::looks down:: lmao

OldSchoolin86
10-25-2002, 11:02 PM
I can't let this die. You see as long a I can hang with all you "big dogs" out on the trails or where ever and you know I can, I'll always be the one to prove that your ridin' style is hurting bad. Be as proud as you want but your not pulling away from me.

Houston:
The only time the Raptor or the Banshee is going to shine is in long open spaces. Short blast and big air is what the ex is made for. Have you ever jumped one of those yams? Forget it, they stink for that stuff. You don't have to own the biggest toy to do the best.

karnivore660r
10-26-2002, 02:08 AM
I can't let this die. You see as long a I can hang with all you "big dogs" out on the trails or where ever and you know I can, I'll always be the one to prove that your ridin' style is hurting bad. Be as proud as you want but your not pulling away from me.
So I guess next time where out ridin I should just start pullin from you and don't look back, huh? Nah, I think I'd rather just go and have some fun. You should go and sign up for GNCC or something since your so "good" on your ex.



Houston:
The only time the Raptor or the Banshee is going to shine is in long open spaces. Short blast and big air is what the ex is made for. Have you ever jumped one of those yams? Forget it, they stink for that stuff. Get a clue.



You don't have to own the biggest toy to do the best. Ummm...yeah! Haven't you ever heard the expression "Riding is 95% rider and 5% bike"? I'm sure a pro could beat you on a blaster, anywhere.

ATC crazy
10-26-2002, 04:16 PM
:x Why are you guys arguing about a 400ex and a Raptor. The Raptor has a 263cc advantage over the 400ex so of course the Raptor is going to out-perform a 400ex. But with the extra money it would take to get a raptor, you could modify a 400ex to beat it. Yes I know that the raptor is stock but in the end you ended up paying less for a quad that would go faster, handle better, and out-perform it for the same ammount of $$ or less. If honda put a CBR600F4i engine in a 400ex frame then we wouldn't be having this little chat now would we.

Big Darn Mike C
10-26-2002, 07:39 PM
Umm, they don't, so we are having this chat. The 400EX is better for tight spaces sure, but not short bursts, because it doesn't get up to speed worth nuts. And what are you riding through? A mouse maze? What is that tight that only a 400EX is good in? You can come ride with me at the dunes next summer, but you won't be keepin up, unless of course you get that new Sportrax CBR600RR. The other thing is, I don't know why you can't jump a Yamaha because I get some good air on mine. Maybe I'm just a better rider. Who knows?

OldSchoolin86
10-27-2002, 07:55 PM
Hey Karni, last time we went riding I was waiting for you. I even had to double back to check on you once. I'm sure MR ATC would remember this too.

karnivore660r
10-27-2002, 10:36 PM
Yeah, you had to wait for me once cuz I was letting you lead instead of having to keep waiting for you. You where going so slow I had to stop in the bottom of a ravine of a muddy hill so I wouldn't hit you and could not make it up because it was too sloppy. :rolleyes: what can a guy do? :evil:

MR ATC
10-29-2002, 09:47 AM
well let me get in on this since i was mentioned again. Karni hate to break it to you but there were severall times O.S. and i waited for you and if memory serves me right when we first entered the woods you were in front of him that is untill he passed you. and you can't use O.S. getting in your way on that hill there were severall options to go if he was in one line there were 4 others to choose from.

houston in regards to ..."I mean my style is dead speed and big air with a short start, so I think I'd want the power over the cornering. " if you think cornering is not that important try racing a MX track were corner speed has everything to do with who wins. (ever try to clear a 30' double coming out of a corner) i guess thats why 400ex's are so dominant in mx and the woods.

Big Mike: "Banshee (what can?)",mike we all know you think the Banshee is the best ATV ever made and the rest are just crap and should all be discontinued but, every debate you get in you have the same thing to say "come out and ride the dunes" the dunes are not the only place to ride. were were you at haspin? i've beaten banshees on 400ex's in Drags and i've smoked them in the woods on my 350X's and killed them on mx tracks with my 250R. so i think the banshee is beatable

ol dirty 533, "but I don't think the disputers here are Pro, " i am a disputer here and yes i am a PRO racer. and i'm not sure about the jump but i was clearing all the jumps on the one mx track on my 350X (never did see the other track till we were leaving)

untill i see a craptor or a buzzard (banshee) dominate the racing scene like the ATC250R,TRX250R, OR 400EX dose then they can be considered the best untill then there just play machines

and for the record its a lot easier to get power out of a motor then it is to turn a couch into a great handler some things just can't be changed (frame geometry) unless that is you do what all the yamaha pro's do...use Honda chassie's

Big Darn Mike C
10-29-2002, 11:02 PM
Oh quit bein a baby.
1. The dunes is my favorite place to ride and camp, so i got a banshee
2. It isn't necessarily my favorite machine, but is at the dunes, and the best at the dunes.
3. Nobody else has to discontinue alernative models, I don't mind
4. I get mad because everyone keeps saying how the Banshee sucks everywhere else and it's BS, it's by no means the best, but bot horrible
5. You bring the same argument to the table as well: "Well I beat this on this and I beat this on that and BLAH BLAH BLAH". So your a PRO! Big deal, your not the only guy that rides hard and your not the only guy that know some sh*t. Sure, you've been around the scene for a long time and you get my props because your favorite machine is mine too, the 350X. i have respect, but when you slam my machine I will defend.
The reason I say come to the dunes with me is, you guys only ride in the woods, it's all you ever talk about. Haspin is in where? Indiana? I live in Oregon almost on the coast. No way on my budget could I have made it to Haspin. I have lost to a 400EX 1 time out of... well... Hundreds of races. And i do every once in a while ride around here where we have everything, with my friends on 400EX's, and I usually lead the way. It takes a little work, but I can make that banshee do what i want when i want, just like my b**ch, j/k. And you know how it is. When you get used to a machine, you can do those things. Maybe a guy that isn't used to a Banshee can't get it around the woods well, but i can. Anyhow, until next time.....

10-30-2002, 10:07 AM
Mike, the only problem i have with the Buzzard (banshee) is it is waaay overrated. yes it is a fine machine in the dunes but, contrary to your belief i do not ride "only" in the woods. i ride in any and all terraine with my cycles. (hmmm did i just say all terraine cycles hey thats ATC lol) the only reason i bring "the same argument " is because you say the same thing... I don't know who or where you guys are racing, but I have never seen a 400EX come even close to beating the following machines: Banshee (what can?), " if that is not a arrogent statement then i don't know what is. i could spend all day telling you about machines that can beat your unbeatable Banshee. now if you really want to talk about unbeatable...ATC 250R 81-87 undefeated in BAJA 500 & 1000 (87 was won by priveteers while the Banshee was ridden by former team Honda 250R riders that won the previous years)

Big Darn Mike C
10-30-2002, 10:40 PM
Banshee's unbeatable? Who the hell said that? i didn't. Ain't no 400EX gonna beat it though. Arrogant, no not really, I knew the banshee was the king of speed before I even considered owning one. I decided I don't care what you or anyone else has to say about it because i have more fun riding it than i ever had riding anything else. And baja and Motocross don't mean jack to me because i ride for the sport and for recreation and I will leave the rest to the Pro's of the world. And it's not like you are ptting a 250R against a banshee anyway, you are pitting two highly modified aftermarket machines. What I will tell you is, it's not hard to get a Banshee through the woods at a reasonable pace. It's does handle pretty good, the suspension ain't bad and I have no problem jumping and wheelieing it and it has the quickest revving and hardest hitting motor in a production ATV to date. And Bill... how did you know you are my hero?

MR ATC
10-31-2002, 04:15 AM
[quote="Big Darn Mike C"] but I have never seen a 400EX come even close to beating the following machines: Banshee (what can?),

that to me is pretty much saying unbeatable..."Banshee (what can?),"...


..."And it's not like you are ptting a 250R against a banshee anyway, you are pitting two highly modified aftermarket machines. "...

back in 87 the machines were not highly modified aftermarket machines they were mostly stock the aftermarket was not like it is today back then.

..."has the quickest revving and hardest hitting motor in a production ATV to date. "...

there you go again...quickest and hardest hitting??? obviously you've never rode a Tecate or a Quadzilla 500 they both hit harder then a banshee and both will smoke it on top end along with a 250R.

..."And Bill... how did you know you are my hero?"...

because you told me i was way back when you still liked your 350X...LOL

Big Darn Mike C
10-31-2002, 04:34 PM
I still like my X Bill, what are you talking about? Tecate, 250R and LT 500= No longer in production, so what does that leave? Oh, the banshee is still made, so it's the quickest revving and hardest hitting. A 250R won't smoke a Banshee on top, let that go. A tecate is right up there but won't "smoke a Banshee" and the LT 500 is well.... an LT 500, of course it's fast it's huge. But since nothing is stock, lets talk about that. When all the machines are fairly built, none will beat the banshee except the LT may. I am talking about a drag race now just so you know. When all are heavily modified, nothing will. As for my "what can?" statement, I had a smirk on my face when i wrote it and still do and I'm sorry my smart ass comment got the better of you.

Big Darn Mike C
10-31-2002, 04:36 PM
oh yeah, and it must not be too obvious because I have ridden all the machines you listed.

atvnut
11-06-2002, 03:51 PM
I have owned both. The ex was an incredible machine when it came out in 99. however, times have changed and I feel (my opinion only) that the raptor is the top of the food chain. I have put many miles on mine with no problems. After adding an alien full exaust, jetting up, and opening airbox its performance is INCREDIBLE! Im VERY pleased with my raptor!