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Louis Mielke
08-18-2007, 10:58 PM
My new swinger for the 500R, under construction.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/louis_mielke/swinger/SD530162.jpg
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/louis_mielke/swinger/SD530161.jpg
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/louis_mielke/swinger/SD530160.jpg
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/louis_mielke/swinger/SD530159.jpg

84honda200s
08-18-2007, 11:04 PM
jeez man that thing looks like it weighs a ton. but still at least it shouldnt fold in on its self like ive seen some crap ones do.


looking good man

Louis Mielke
08-18-2007, 11:12 PM
Its aluminum dude, they're stock arms cut up.
shouldn't be too much heavier than a stock TRX450R arm.

Mike_Ham_250R
08-19-2007, 01:26 AM
jeez man that thing looks like it weighs a ton. but still at least it shouldnt fold in on its self like ive seen some crap ones do.


looking good man

n00b.

Looking good Louis.

Jason Hall
08-19-2007, 10:16 AM
Louis, what was the length on your old setup?

Louis Mielke
08-19-2007, 12:38 PM
approx +5 from stock 400ex length. i think it was in reality about 27-29" total. This arms going to be about 24.5 total. a stock arm as best I could measure is 22"

These measurements are from tip to tip. Not center to center.

This arm is also being built from a 450r swinger instead of the 400ex.
I'm trying to work up a jig now, Billy's gonna try his hand at welding it for me.

I know you're the master builder around here, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm also trying to figure out how to bolt some 450r pegs to the frame without too much cutting and welding. Probably not going to happen.

Jason Hall
08-19-2007, 04:28 PM
The only worry I would have Is your shock linkage mounting point Is exactly where your joining the 2 swingarm sections. That will put lots of strain on the weld's, so make sure It's good & strong. I heard you were having trouble turning, so that much shorter on the swinger should really help.

When we mounted Derricks peg's on the Z, I welded some thick flat stock to the frame & bolted them babies right on. Then gussoted the plates up good. No matter what you need something flat to bolt the pegs to. So some welding will be needed.

84honda200s
08-19-2007, 08:43 PM
n00b.

Looking good Louis.



yup thats me :Bounce...... well to the suspended trikes anyway. ill learn sooner or later.

Louis Mielke
08-19-2007, 10:43 PM
The only worry I would have Is your shock linkage mounting point Is exactly where your joining the 2 swingarm sections. That will put lots of strain on the weld's, so make sure It's good & strong. I heard you were having trouble turning, so that much shorter on the swinger should really help.

When we mounted Derricks peg's on the Z, I welded some thick flat stock to the frame & bolted them babies right on. Then gussoted the plates up good. No matter what you need something flat to bolt the pegs to. So some welding will be needed.

HA! You only heard I was having trouble turning? Don't be so nice. You were on the track with me, I looked like a clown out there in the monster class. The long arm isn't so bad for general riding/trail riding but it was terrible on the track.

I'm going shorter on the swinger, wider on the axle and the sub-frames getting dropped 2.5". I think I'm gonna run shorter bars and I'm gonna try to put some different seals in the forks myself, maybe heavier springs, I don't know if I'm having problems cause I can't keep the oil in the forks, or if the springs are actually too light. I've given up shipping them out. I'm just gonna stumble through doing them myself.

Jason Hall
08-20-2007, 10:01 AM
If you take the forks apart, you will see they are very easy to do. Then you'll kick yourself for not doing them yourself to begin with lol. I have learned from talking to the Ohio boys & my own forks that you will want to replace the bushings and use OEM seal's. Are the seals just blowing out, or do they leak oil out slowly? We have found out even with our big Inverted forks we need very stiff springs. I hope you can get heavy enough spring to do the job.

BigGreenMachine
08-20-2007, 01:31 PM
Those cuts leave quite the gap. Lots of welding.
The concept is cool though.

Louis Mielke
08-20-2007, 04:19 PM
Those cuts leave quite the gap. Lots of welding.
The concept is cool though.


The gaps aren't as bad as they look and I have some more cutting to do. The sides are getting plates for strength anyway. Alot of the area that looks like it creates gap won't exist any longer. Also the pictures are deceiving. The main join areas actually mate up pretty tight.

Trust me, more work to be done before welding.

Louis Mielke
08-20-2007, 04:24 PM
If you take the forks apart, you will see they are very easy to do. Then you'll kick yourself for not doing them yourself to begin with lol. I have learned from talking to the Ohio boys & my own forks that you will want to replace the bushings and use OEM seal's. Are the seals just blowing out, or do they leak oil out slowly? We have found out even with our big Inverted forks we need very stiff springs. I hope you can get heavy enough spring to do the job.


The seals that were put in them last were OEM. Billy has directed me to a KTM forum and it seems pretty unanimous that the stock seals are terrible and that a company by the name of Synergy makes seals that won't leak on the KTM forks.

The last two sets of seals were good for about a day and by the end of the day they were weeping very badly, so I don't know what the story is. i do know that I could have gone much farther on the clickers. I really hadn't figured out how to set them right. i started at the bottom and went up, I guess I should have started at the top and went down. Could I possibly be shooting my own foot by not having the compression set high enough? Don't laugh if thats half my problem, I'm not all that smart. :-P

I'm sure when I finally tear them apart I'll have more info. I think I'm gonna hafta go to the .46 springs and cut them to fit. Billy's Z seemed pretty stiff up front.

I know I'm slow, but I'll get it right eventually. I wish I had the time and money to just go all out but I don't, so I can't and I wont. Gota be responsible etc etc...blah. Its sucks.

Red Rider
08-20-2007, 06:39 PM
The seals that were put in them last were OEM. Billy has directed me to a KTM forum and it seems pretty unanimous that the stock seals are terrible and that a company by the name of Synergy makes seals that won't leak on the KTM forks.Louis, my KTM forks were leaking also after the inverted fork conversion process, most likely due to all the heat from the welding, but they leaked none the less. I bought a set of the synergy seals, installed them myself, and haven't had a problem since.

Louis Mielke
08-20-2007, 10:59 PM
Excellent! I'm very glad to hear that. How hard was it to change those out. Did you bother to re-spring yours?

Also how do you have your clickers adjusted? I'm gonna get these things right if it kills me.

Billy Golightly
08-20-2007, 11:24 PM
I think we can get that thing held together pretty well Louis. I have a lot of 1/4 plate here I will use as additional bracing and support on the bottom and also the sides if need be.

Louis Mielke
08-20-2007, 11:56 PM
I'm confident too. The first one my machinist buddy did is super strong and it really doesn't look like anything special. I think the jig is going to be the hardest part.

BigGreenMachine
08-21-2007, 12:25 AM
Jigs are easy enough. When the fitment is good it looks like you will have more then enough weld to not need additional plate.

Going to look nice I should add, not to put too much pressure on ya Billy.

Red Rider
08-21-2007, 01:23 AM
Excellent! I'm very glad to hear that. How hard was it to change those out. Did you bother to re-spring yours?It was easy. Not as easy as regular forks, but nothing complex. It was just a few more parts & little bit more involved. Just follow the steps in the WP manual, which I or Billy can email to you if necessary. I did respring mine, but I can't remember what weight I went with right now. I'd have to look at the box to see what I got.


Also how do you have your clickers adjusted? I'm gonna get these things right if it kills me.I think I have both the rebound & compression adjusted to the center of the range of clicks. Just play around with it and see how it feels. You'll find the sweet spot eventually, while having a lot of fun riding and testing!

3leggeddog
08-26-2007, 12:48 AM
remember those bushings go bad aswell,then the fork puts pressure on the seal causing it to wear out premature.do a full rebuild on them,and the good seals.also are you putting in too much oil?if they compress so far,and the oil has no wear to go,the seal is the weakest link.

i can provide some plate 6061-1/4 to 1/2 stock.let me know,i can shear it off,put little bends in it,whatever you guys need.lmk!

Louis Mielke
08-26-2007, 08:03 AM
The moto pro suspension place was SUPPOSED to check all the part for wear and service whatever the forks needed. Who knows if he actually did it or not so when I get them tore down I'll inspect everything carefully and order parts accordingly.

Thanks for the help brandon, if we need the plate we'll shoot you a message.

Louis Mielke
10-07-2007, 09:06 PM
Billy, here's an update. i think I'm ready to ship it to you unless you have any objections. Let me know man.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/louis_mielke/SD530221.jpg
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/louis_mielke/SD530222.jpg
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/louis_mielke/SD530223.jpg
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/louis_mielke/SD530224.jpg

The jig was a pain and the stick welding isn't amazing or anything. it is held pretty securley. You man want to clamp it down to a table or something though,. This is really the best I could do. I suck I know.

Here's a comparison picture for giggles, the stock 400ex, versuses the new 500 arm, and hopefully once your done welding I can line all three swingarms up.
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/louis_mielke/SD530220.jpg

Lemme know man and I can ship tomarrow if it suits.

Billy Golightly
10-08-2007, 02:05 PM
Send it this way mang, we'll make it work!

Billy Golightly
11-13-2007, 12:43 AM
Louis I started working on your swinger this afternoon. I've got it joined pretty fair on both the top and the bottom. Most of the joints are gonna get atleast triple pass welds because of the thicknesses involved. The gaps in the joints are a little bit of a concern to me but I believe with the depth I'm beveling things I should be getting feel penetration with a little bit of bleed through to the inside.

Louis Mielke
11-13-2007, 12:52 AM
Billy you are awesome.

KASEY
11-13-2007, 01:01 AM
FANTASTIC JOB GUYS!!! can't wait to see it installed!!!!

Billy Golightly
11-14-2007, 07:20 PM
Progress thus far: I'm going to start out with some before pictures. I ground down all the gaps, the thicker areas I ground out a lot, and I will double pass them to fill them completely back in. That would mainly be on the sections on the top and bottom rails. The sides aren't as thick and don't need to be double passed if you V them down good.

Pic#1: The inside portion of the swingarm right behind the shock mount, Right hand corner, V'ed out and ready for some weld.

Pic#2: Same part as above, but the left hand corner instead. Couldn't V out quite the same as the right because the material was not as thick as it was on the right side.

Pic#3: One of the side, and edge joints V'ed out. Not sure if this was the left or the right side. As I mentioned before, you can see the sides themselves are not that thick, but the corners and the top and bottom portions of the tubing area.

Pic#4: Another shot of that one V'ed out corner behind the shock mount.

Billy Golightly
11-14-2007, 07:30 PM
OK, now onto some of the weld pics:

Pic#1: Corner gussets in the corners behind the shock mount, and also the base/bottom pass on the right hand side tubing joint on the top side.

Pic#2. Both left and right corner gussets behind the shock mount, and also both of the top side base/bottom passes for both sides of the tubing joints.

Pic#3: Closeup of the left hand corner gusset behind the shock mount. Thats pure weld, pass after pass after pass of it.

Pic#4: Same as the above, but the right hand corner.

Pic#5: Base/Bottom pass for the top joint on the left hand side. Some of these beads don't look real pretty but the gaps I was having to fill in were quite impressive, I I had to kind of keep jumping around to keep the pool from "falling" in.

Pic#6: Single pass on the side of the right hand sides joint, and the base pass for the top of the tubing in that area. You can see how far down in the weld is when you look at the one right under that shock mount eyelet.

Derrick Adams
11-14-2007, 07:30 PM
Hey Louis, I just wanted to add a note to this thread. After RE-reading the whole thing I noticed you shortened the swinger around 5". I would rethink making a new subframe until that shorter swinger is on there. Not only will it lower your seat height by the 2.5" you want, but it will probably stiffen your rear shock up a ton as well. That should mean you'll end up running less spring tension, which should also allow you to drop the rear some.

Billy Golightly
11-14-2007, 07:37 PM
OK, Heres the final ones for now.


Pic#1: Just another close up of the on joint.

Pic#2: Another view of the gussets behind the shock mount and also the joint that runs on the top next to it.

Pic#3: Some bottom welds and a good view of Louis' jig he made to send the swinger to me.

Pic#4: Final one, just a good over all shot.

Louis Mielke
11-14-2007, 09:15 PM
Billy, is it an optical alusion or did the center of the swinger drop some? I laid a straight edge over the joint and it was pretty close to level on top when we had finished the jig. Not your fault if it did, I'm just curious. I was pretty sure it was pretty secure when it got boxed up. Looks awesome so far, can't wait to get a hold of the finished product and get it out to the polishers. From the looks of things I don't think we have anything to worry about strength wise. I'll put my neck out on your welding any day :-)

Derrick, trust me, nothing is getting done sub frame wise until the swinger comes back and I get it mounted up with the extended axle. The only thing I'm worried about right now is the change in rake the new swinger may create. We'll see how it goes. Honestly lowering the sub frame was two fold, one was riding ergonomics's, second was making the fender lines match up with the tank better and getting the seat down against the tank.

Its all gonna come together in time.

Billy Golightly
11-15-2007, 05:52 PM
Louis, I checked it today with a square and it would appear the front did drop down a little bit, maybe 3/16ths or a little less. I'm not sure how close you had it to begin with. I think I'm gonna be able to finish it in just a few more hours. Probably wont be over the weekend though, got a race and some other stuff happening.

Billy Golightly
11-15-2007, 05:53 PM
Last ones from today.

brapp
11-15-2007, 09:00 PM
look sgood billy i may have to have you make a swinger for gthe 450 project bike.

Billy Golightly
11-17-2007, 12:13 AM
Well, lots of argon and few pounds of welding rods later its done. Weld beads are not the straightest or most uniform...but let me tell ya its impossible to rest your hand on anything when your cranking at about 250amps to get this stuff to melt. The black gooey looking stuff was actually boiled out of a wooden block I had leaning the thing up so I could catch something on the bottom, just from touching it, it boiled out all over it.

Billy Golightly
11-17-2007, 12:18 AM
Last ones.

Overall, this ended up being quite a bit simpler then I had imagined and I've got alot more confidence in the finish product then I was expecting to get. Not sayin its unbreakable, but I'd ride with it. Gently at first though :lol:

dreadhed
11-17-2007, 01:39 AM
Nice work Billy. How far are you from Gainesville? I got a crack in a frame I need welded. It's only one spot so I won't think it would take to long. But what the hell do I know I am not a welder.

Louis Mielke
11-17-2007, 06:00 PM
Billy this hurricane rocks! i can't wait to get the thing polished up and installed. You'll definitly get to take it for a ride come next TF. I'm hoping I really have all the kinks worked out of my 500 by TF08. You are the freakin man!!!!!

Bryan Raffa
11-19-2007, 10:07 PM
louis gentle on something...hahahha looking good guys..

Louis Mielke
11-19-2007, 10:13 PM
Can't wait to bolt it up!

Bryan Raffa
11-19-2007, 10:18 PM
I bet .. you needed that .. get your shock straitened out?

Louis Mielke
11-21-2007, 08:27 PM
Yeah man, works put a whole new cartridge in there, shaft and everything! Only cost me shipping.

oldsking86
11-21-2007, 08:31 PM
You serious?! I want my shock done for just shipping haha

Louis Mielke
11-21-2007, 08:40 PM
Then bomerang it like I did after paying $300 to have it serviced/refershed.

oldsking86
11-21-2007, 09:09 PM
ahhh gotcha, still gotta lay out the chetter to have it done up in the first place.. That's not comforting to know that it get that messed after spending that much money. At least they stood behind the product and did what they did