the banning of all 2 strokes.

[stylze0]

I know they are banning all 2 strokes by 2006, by my question is...

(1) will dealers still repair 2 strokes if something breaks
(2) will parts/oils still be produced (including spark plugs...lol)
(3) will I have to sell my 250r and buy a 400ex or s/t just to trail ride in 2006 :evil:

[FullBore]

I think they might be bannign just he sale and production of 2 strokes, you'll still be able to keep and get your 250r fixed!
These laws are getting stoopid now, in germany for a new bike to pass the noise emission laws it has to be watercooled to keep the sound down!

Nat

[Wickedfinger]

Sorry, your information is faulty and you are misinformed. I guess we can say goodbye to all Snowmobiles, Jetski's & PWC's, an entire line and class of motocross bikes, some onroad racers, the majority of outboard boats and motors, all weedwhackers, most scooters, most chainsaws, a great deal of model airplanes, miniature cars, models (allthough, those motors are technically valveless diesels - lol) and quite a few boat related generators. Sorry, I don't see this as a probablitity.

[plkmonster2]

i see what finger is saying, but i think that they will only outlaw cetrain things like streetbikes and stuff.

[bigred110]

I'n San Diego they have banned all 2 stroke jets ski's I believe. Allot more places are doing the same thing to.

[NOS_350X]

they wont ban them by 2006 the 4 stroke technology just isnt quite there yet even with the 450's and 250f's i think you will be looking at the banning of them more around 2010 probably longer

[Dynofox]

They won't ban 2-strokes that meet the new epa standards. An example in snowmobiles is instead of going to 4-strokes in their performance sleds ski-doo is using a semi direct injection system that cuts back on emmissions greatly. The same technology should be used in dirt bikes but will the factories go through the extra expense of using them?

[plkmonster2]

yeah alot of places banned 2 stroke jet skis. i think it is because the exhaust goes into the water, which is very harmful, especially with the oils. like nos said, it'll still be a while before they ban all of them. the companies will send someone in the tryto stop it. like the nra. take that for example. they hate gun control, yet bush is in favor of it. nra has sent someone to keep the ban from happening. the same thing will happen - the big 2 stroke companies will send someone in to disrupt it.

[Joel85350X]

Back to the original questions...

Even if these 2 stroke machines are banned, it is highly unlikely that they will be banned from riding, they will sinply be banned from production. It's like the 3 wheeler back in 1987, they are banned from being produced and sold (for 10 years), but you can still ride them, get them rebuilt, sell and trade them, just like before. Only difference is that they are not produced and sold as new anymore.

It will take a lot longer after the ban of production of 2 stroke vehicles to reach an end in supply parts than it has for 3 wheelers. Right now parts availability is becoming more and more scarce, and for some models, it is almost impossible to buy anything new for it. 2 strokes will not have this problem, because some people will be banshee and 250R lovers forever, regardless of new technology. In addition, there are a lot more 2 stroke people out there than 3 wheeler people.

[TimSr]

The 2 stroke "ban" is like the 3 wheeler "ban". Did they come and take yours and arrest you for having it? The year 2006 is correct, but it will be and end to the production of new two stroke ATV's (not dirt bikes, not jet skis, not weed whackers) and it will only affect two strokes over a certain size, so pretty much, the only thing that will be affected is the Banshee, and possibly the Blaster, though that is still unclear. Id be surprised if the Banshee were still in production then, anyways. The Blaster is probably still one of the top sellers, if not THE top seller. The two stroke mini quads will probably not be affected. As far as trading a 250r for a 400EX, the 400EX is currently on the falling edge of obsolesance, so by 2003 youll be trading one antique for another. Sorry guys, but 2 strokes are dying, and things change in life. Im sure even Ill be riding a 4 stroke eventually, and even right now my mighty 250R isnt up to par with a lot of the new stuff.

[mudduck14843]

i was under the imprestion that that was just for compitition Major motor sports like supercross and stuff like that (A.M.A.events)

[TimSr]

There was discussion of exemptions and allowing production for the purpose competition, but I dont know the status of that.

[atcmatt]

nobody has said anything about banning 2 strokes in australia!!!!!!!!
doubt it will happen anyway and if it does its just another stupid law!!!!!
anyway i dont care because my ride is a 4 stroke!!!! but to those who do ride 2 strokes dont worry!!!!i bet it wont happen till like 2010 like nos said!!
and by then there will be something new about...

matt

[kimmer250r]

BLUE MARBLE OIL

[dc]

I was under the impression that it was just a rumor that 2-strokes would be banned by 2006. But TimSr, you just said that it is true? I have not even heard anything in the news about it yet. By 2006 2-stroke manufactures will probably have some kind of fuel injection on all large displacement 2-strokes. Definately by 2010.

But that is just my opinion.

[TimSr]

Guys Listen!!! There is no BAN!!! There will never be a BAN. BAN means illegal. Lighten up, and please stop throwing the word "ban" around. Two strokes will not be illegal to own or posess. They will simply be phased out of production, just like 3 wheelers were. Existing models will be around and ridden for as long as you care to own them, so you can chill out.

NEWSFLASH!!!! Large dislacement two strokes have already been almost completely phased out of production for several years except for a couple of 15 year old dinosaurs still being produced by Yamaha. Im ceratinly not knocking the quality these machines, but realistically, how long can one expect a particular model line to be marketable in the face of new technology? With or without new regulations, I wouldnt have given the Banshee more than a couple more years to exist anyway. The Blaster is a different story because they are marketed based on price, but they may not even be affected. So relax! Unlike the sudden halt ot trike sales, youre not even going to notice this one.

[ATC crazy]

I agree w/ Tim Sr...The 2-strokes will not be produced anymore,,but they won't be illegal. It will be like the 3-wheeler "ban" that says you cant produce new machines. They will still be Legal to ride, and make parts for them.


Sorry, your information is faulty and you are misinformed. I guess we can say goodbye to all Snowmobiles, Jetski's & PWC's, an entire line and class of motocross bikes, some onroad racers, the majority of outboard boats and motors, all weedwhackers, most scooters, most chainsaws, a great deal of model airplanes, miniature cars, models (allthough, those motors are technically valveless diesels - lol) and quite a few boat related generators. Sorry, I don't see this as a probablitity.

Wickedfinger...almost all those things you just mentioned are available with a 4-stroke motor now and are pretty popular. (although like you said, almost a whole class of MX bikes will be eliminated (125cc & 250cc))

[Wickedfinger]

Crazy, you are mostly right, but it dosent necessarily mean they are any better and I have yet to see a 4 stroke weed whacker, or a four stroke chainsaw that was practical because of weight issues (Honda does make a 4stroke weed whacker that I rent at Home Depot but from all accounts is an underpowered heavy beast that boggs at the slightest hint of adversity ). In digging a little deeper into this subject, I believe what the author of this thread saw was the new EPA2006 CARB emisions standards that apply to California and by default California US headquartered companies (IE Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha - but not Polaris, Bombardier/Ski-do, Arctic-cat - KTM has an Ohio and a California office, so I don't know whats up with them.). Now, back to 4 vs 2 strokes and this "ban" - Do you really think the Chineese will ever give up 2 strokes for their scooters (as well as the ancient Honda copy 90's), Lambretta, Vespa, Addagio will probably always make them for their scooters. Lets face it guys, up to a certain displacement in single cylinder engines, you would never be able to cost effectively create a four stroke that can ever match a pinger in terms of power to weight ratio, overall weight, and overall horsepower - torque is another story. In talking to my Polaris/KTM/Suzuki dealer on Monday, I actually brought this alledged 2006 2 stroke discontinunation up in conversation - while he did acknowledge that Polaris has a new turbo fourstroke MXR PWC outthere to compete with the Hondas, there are no Polaris thumper Snowmobiles, and probably wont be any in the forseeable future. Arctic Cat does make a 700cc Turbo 4 stroke, but its a tourer and doesn't even come close to the horsepower of the 700cc efi pinger. Well thats all for now, Long Live Pingers!!!!

[trikeman]

here in ny they are banning the sale of all diesel engines!

[mudduck14843]

here in ny they are banning the sale of all diesel engines!
what where did you hear that
thecompany i work for just bought us a new ford f350 duelie diesel 4 door truck and we didn't hear anything about that
the guy that sold it to us was a friend of my supervisor.

[MR ATC]

weather or not it happens the EPA is trying to have all 2 stroke motors phased out of production. that includes all the aftermentiond motors. they all ready have lightweight 4 stroke motors to apply to chainsaws ect.

[Wickedfinger]

CURSE YOU EPA!!!

[ATC crazy]

The banning of diesel engines has to be BS...just look at it...busses, 99% of fire trucks/ambulances, and many, many more are powered by diesel engines.

[plkmonster2]

like tim said, THIS IS NOT A BAN!!!! sheeze! they only prohibit the sale of desiel ENGINES, you can usually still buy the trucks , and parts..

[Billy Golightly]

Where did this deisel engines thing spawn from? That'll be very interesting to see the EPA try and kill over 80 years worth of tractors, semi's, boat engines, and pickup engines. I'd really like to see them pull that one...they'd have a demonstration against that large enough to drive through the National Guard.

[ATC crazy]

Just think...someday, the whole world will be powered by bateries. Definately not in our lifetimes, but somewhere in the future.

[F7Firecat]

This is a subject that has been brought up many times over & it gets batted down everytime for the simple fact that there is no such thing as a clean running gasoline powered engine. For example if your engine is a 4 stroke and it has any age look under your engine block on the floor what do you see HMMM oil spot. This brings one question which is going to hit the water table first the oil leaked directly on the ground or that which has been vaporized in a firey rage & put into the air in such minute quantity that it has very little effect on our eco-system. True there are begining to be more 4 stroke motors out there but you go to any dealer & ask what people think of them & if he tells you anything but 90% of the people who tried them hate them :evil: (he is lying to you :twisted: ). The 10% that do like them are those who like life quiet & smooth & uncomplicated. There will be a "ban" on production of 2 strokes but it won`t be until after 2008 that is when all the producers of the pingers have to be in full 4 stroke production. This comes from an inside source at Arctic Cat in Theif River Falls who attends all of the debates on the subject. You will still be able to own & ride your Beloved R`s & your other pingers so FEAR NOT MY FRIENDS you will still be able to have your cake & eat it too! Just my thought on the 2 vs. 4 strokes, ;) Jim

[NOS_350X]

This is a subject that has been brought up many times over & it gets batted down everytime for the simple fact that there is no such thing as a clean running gasoline powered engine. For example if your engine is a 4 stroke and it has any age look under your engine block on the floor what do you see HMMM oil spot. This brings one question which is going to hit the water table first the oil leaked directly on the ground or that which has been vaporized in a firey rage & put into the air in such minute quantity that it has very little effect on our eco-system. True there are begining to be more 4 stroke motors out there but you go to any dealer & ask what people think of them & if he tells you anything but 90% of the people who tried them hate them :evil: (he is lying to you :twisted: ). The 10% that do like them are those who like life quiet & smooth & uncomplicated. There will be a "ban" on production of 2 strokes but it won`t be until after 2008 that is when all the producers of the pingers have to be in full 4 stroke production. This comes from an inside source at Arctic Cat in Theif River Falls who attends all of the debates on the subject. You will still be able to own & ride your Beloved R`s & your other pingers so FEAR NOT MY FRIENDS you will still be able to have your cake & eat it too! Just my thought on the 2 vs. 4 strokes, ;) Jim

so you have a inside source umm ya i belive that one

[F7Firecat]

Why is it that everytime someone with a little intelect takes their time to post something that will affect all of our futures it always gets a burn. As for Having an inside source YES I DO as a matter of fact would you like to come along to one of the future production shows I`m sure he wouldn`t mind if you were to come along with us. I`m not one of the teens trying to earn any brownie points all of the things I offer as posts are of the facts that I have learned from one source or another. So only I will Know if I have an inside source or not I GUESS sorry. Jim

[NOS_350X]

someone got a little defencive i'm sorry if i offended you i'm just not going to belive what you say until you prove your inside source to be correct and i gess we will have to wait till 2008 to find out

[Dan Tenn]

From what I have heard, this phase out is only from the CARB (California Air Resources Board) which means that it will only take effect in California. The US EPA in general is less strict than California. California is always the first to implement more stringent regulations and then other states tend to adopt these standards. NY, TX, OR, RI, and Maine normally follow very closly after California, but the rest of the states only need to be current with the US EPA. From what Ive heard, the US EPA has no plans to ban or phase out production of 2-strokes in 2006. This opinion is based on being a regulatory specialist dealing with VOC's (volatile organic compounds) and having to be up to date with regulations for all 50 states and Canada. This is the general trend, but may not be true in this case. I do believe that the sales of 2-stroke engines will be banned in California soon, but will likely not take effect in other states unless they adopt this policy. Otherwise the US EPA has to put it into effect if the individual states dont. I dont see that happening very soon.

[Wickedfinger]

... Thank you Dan.

[MR ATC]

http://www.atkusa.com/bikes/2004Models/700Itimidator.asp

if they ban two strokes only outlaws will have two strokes :evil: :evil: ...think 700cc two stroke is enough for a outlaw...maybe a good trike project in the future :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

the ultimate outlaw 700cc two stroke three wheeler...

[Instinctz]

Lol @ Inside Source.. there is NOTHING Inside about this, its a law, which is publicly known. The goverment wont pass a law that 99% of the population knows nothing about.

There is alot of myths about all this, I read a very large report on this (the official what ever that they sent to the where ever to have it voted on)... and basicly by 2005 they plan to have the system beginning to be in effect. 2007 they will 'ban' some very large two stroke engines from the biggest corperations. By 2010 most every large two stroke engine, produced by the biggest corperations will no longer be in production.

Two stroke engines will still be able to be produced by companys under like 2000 employees. That will leave most of the weed wackers, and other small 2-s engines in production. They are only banning them from large corperations, because they will be the least affected by the law, if they halted every production then many many small buisnesses and companys will go out of work, un-employment will rise, and the goverment wont be seeing as much mula the next turn.

If I ever run onto that document I will post it here..