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View Full Version : Anyone running E-85?



bigpimpin
12-15-2007, 10:44 PM
Anyone running E-85? looking to see if this has made its way to atv's

Tri-Z Pilot
12-15-2007, 10:51 PM
What is e-85? Some kind of ethanol fuel?

bigpimpin
12-15-2007, 11:11 PM
Anyone running E-85? looking to see if this has made its way to atv's

81Rmachine
12-15-2007, 11:19 PM
I've seriously considered running my 250r on it. I think its about 109 110 octane and due to the increased volume they run cooler too. In like Car Craft magazine they say to jet a car 35% richer to run on it but I wonder if that would work for ATCs

Tri-Z Pilot
12-15-2007, 11:23 PM
What is it? An ethanol based fuel?

bigpimpin
12-15-2007, 11:26 PM
its 104-105 octane. it is 85% ethanol 15% gas

bigpimpin
12-15-2007, 11:32 PM
it will need 30% more fuel so I guess on a carbureted motor you will need to run a bigger carb. then you can go with like a 12-1 ratio or more

runaway
12-15-2007, 11:35 PM
hello
why would it use more fuel?

bigpimpin
12-16-2007, 01:28 AM
it is not as efficient as gas

Tri-ZNate
12-16-2007, 01:44 AM
hello
why would it use more fuel?

it has 1/3 of the BTUs of Gas, therefore more fuel needed to have the same power. Very sad alternative fuel. Likes to attract moisture too. Many new fuels will be comming out in the next few years which will be far better :Bounce

runaway
12-16-2007, 02:04 PM
hello
is it cheaper then gasoline?

300rman
12-16-2007, 02:42 PM
its *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited*....it has alot of moisture in it, and i have seen MANY cars need new carbs/injectors because the moisture in the fuel ruins them. it is complete GARBAGE, and i will not run it in ANYTHING i own.

TeamGeek6
01-09-2008, 07:23 PM
"it has 1/3 of the BTUs of Gas"

Wrong. Ethanol is gasoline and ethyl alcohol (drinking corn). Ethyl has abotu 77,000 BTU/gallon, gasoline is around 109,000 BTU, so the alcohol content has about 75% of the energy of gasoline.

I ran 53% E-85 and 87 octane pump gas in a Chevy S-10, it ran OK when warm, was a b'yatch to start at 30 degrees since it doesnt vaporize as easily as gasoline, and made the truck much better on slippery roads, since the max torque was down-it didnt spin the wheels as easily.

I talked with a certain companies Engineering dept about fuel lines and hoses, contrary to the old wives tales, it has no effect on rubber and steel, but itll eat through *uncoated aluminum*. There was a JSAE (Japanese auto engineering society) that published a report that even a few percent (about 3) ate through aluminum that wasnt oxidised (aluminum in air makes aluminum oxide, which is extremely hard and chemical resitant). They had a fire history with vehicles fueled with oxygenated fuels which had aluminum fuel rails-the alcohol finds cracks in them and dissolves the aluminum. It takes quite a while.

sandman829
02-21-2008, 06:35 PM
I don't know for shure with the E85, but with strate methenal you run the same size carb with bigger jets. My sand rail run on alky and the onle change I made was a 600cfm holly with 102 primary and 109 secodarys. On gas it runs 72 primary and 84 secondary. Burns a little more full, but makes a bunch more power.

300rman
02-21-2008, 06:47 PM
other than the octane factor, why run alcohol in a drag machine? if it has less OOMPH to it than gas, seems like a power decrease to me?

TRITecate350
02-21-2008, 07:06 PM
I have been running E85 in atvs for over a year. It makes about 17% more power than gas, and you need to use an alcohol carb at a leaner setting than alcohol. The only problem is it will pit and warp your plastic floats in your carb. Methenol makes about %20 over gas, we have been running about 2 times the fuel though the bikes. The only problem is consistancy, it doesnt attract water as bad as methonal, but you can have anywhere from 70% to 90% varying alcohol content which makes jetting alittle difficult from one batch to the next batch. If anyone wants a E85 carb setup let me know, I have them for $350. (Lectron)

sandman829
02-21-2008, 07:14 PM
Makes more power and the motor runs cooler. Cooler motor more totale timing before pining. Sand rail runs 48 deg total timing.

Aka_am
02-21-2008, 08:15 PM
We have e-85 around me!

Since you have to pump more gas though is it actually cheaper?

madmanwithmouse
02-21-2008, 11:14 PM
My bike is what TRITecate350 is refering to. Yes it requires 30ish% more fuel but, it has 15-20% more power. Also ive got an egt probe in mine now and i cant get it over 400 but thats in 20 deg weather. Ill just have to see what it runs come summer, but the fan rairly came on last summer. The cost is about 2/3 that of premum gas so if you figure the cost in mpg its about the same as premum, only with more power. you will probly need to replace your fuel lines with alky cpmpatable, some it eats others it wont bother. also you can raise your compression ratio to around 15/1 since it wont pre detonate as bad, and get probly anouther 5% HP. I havent done it yet due to cost but, thats my next step.

Tri-ZNate
02-22-2008, 09:51 PM
"it has 1/3 of the BTUs of Gas"

Wrong. Ethanol is gasoline and ethyl alcohol (drinking corn).


Yes i was wrong on the actual BTUs since I was too lazy to look it up and compare but dont bother teaching me about alternative fuels. Ethanol is corn alcohol, E85 is ethanol and gasoline (ethanol must have atleast 5% gasoline to denature it).

Either way it has the BTU/gal of Biodiesel which i can make cheaper and faster than a distiller and not need a license to make it.

Madman - How much is your ethanol? Around here its only around $.10 cheaper than Gasoline (e85).

madmanwithmouse
02-23-2008, 12:08 AM
Yes i was wrong on the actual BTUs since I was too lazy to look it up and compare but dont bother teaching me about alternative fuels. Ethanol is corn alcohol, E85 is ethanol and gasoline (ethanol must have atleast 5% gasoline to denature it).
Since ive switch to running E85 Ive only needed to change spark plugs about 1/3 as much. It sucks that they have to put gas in it at all or it would burn with NO carbon Emissions :lol:


Either way it has the BTU/gal of Biodiesel which i can make cheaper and faster than a distiller and not need a license to make it.
I think Bio-Diesel is the way to go for diesel engines, but it won't run in your typical gas engine.


Madman - How much is your ethanol? Around here its only around $.10 cheaper than Gasoline (e85).
Im not sure what it is right now, but when the 91 was $2.50 it was $1.80some. I think it helps that theres a ethonal plant less than 10miles from here.

TRITecate350
02-26-2008, 12:39 AM
Part of the reason there is gas mixed with it is to stop people from drinking it.

mullet_boy
02-27-2008, 11:36 PM
I've been running my 200x on it for about 6 months now. Seams to work pretty darn good for me, aside from cold starting issues(i prime with gas about 2-3 times, keep in mind its in the 20* range here while i have to do that). I'm running 12:1 compression so I wanted to run higher octane, but methanol was getting expensive so i switched to E85. Not sure if I did my jetting entirely right but i read that straight ethanol is 1.8 x the size of your gas jets to get ethanol jets. So since the E85 is 15% less i just multiplied 1.8 x .85 x gas jet size. (seams to run good, so i havnt bothered it)

madmanwithmouse
03-08-2008, 06:29 PM
my bike wouldn"t run correctly untill i got the jettting way up...not sure of the ratio. but it does like the fuel. alto it relly doesnt seem to burn asmuch fuel as when the jetting was abit lean. also did some running the other day in 40deg weather never saw anything over 700deg, even at WOT it was only running 500-550deg.

bigpimpin
03-08-2008, 09:06 PM
ok so you need to just use a bigger carb, metal floats and jet it correctly?

OldSchoolin86
03-08-2008, 09:11 PM
ok so you need to just use a bigger carb, metal floats and jet it correctly?Don't really need a bigger carb just bigger jetting. Don't need metal floats either, E85 is not that corrosive. Sometimes the needle needs to be changed out for an alky needle to get it 100% though.

81Rmachine
05-01-2008, 11:29 PM
From what I understand the whold concept of gaining power with alcahol is that you can run a higher compression ratio because of the octane but what the major advantage of alcahol is the engine runs way cooler. The added fuel vapor in the intake air combined with alcahols awesome heat dissipation yields a cooler denser charge which will expand a hell of alot more in the combustion chamber and therefore yield more power.

bigpimpin
05-01-2008, 11:37 PM
Don't really need a bigger carb just bigger jetting. Don't need metal floats either, E85 is not that corrosive. Sometimes the needle needs to be changed out for an alky needle to get it 100% though.

where does one get alky needles? so with the proper jetting it should be a lower cost alternative to run e-85 and a high compression piston instead of race gas?

UlsterATCFan
06-18-2008, 10:44 AM
Just saw an episode of American Chopper, they built an E-85 powered bike and apparently the reason 15% of it is gasolene is to stop people drinking it lol, I found that amusing

Tri-Z 250
06-18-2008, 01:40 PM
The Gov. is now supporting the bottom line to refine E85. The fact is E85 cost more than 1/3 more $ than crude oil to refine. Why do you think the price of fuel is stuck at 4.00 across the country( getting America adjusted to except the price)...Then the Gov is going to make all of us change our old fuel injected cars over at the local garage to boost the economy. This is not an alternitive it is simpily a way to distance ourselves from the Middle East. The USAF (airforce) is looking to a coal and fuel mixture to burn in there fleet...It's worse than the current fuel after it's burnt to the air we breath. :wondering Can I get an educated person as apposed to a political pocket to decide how to spend my tax $?

ATC-Eric
06-20-2008, 04:49 PM
It smells like grapes when you burn it.............

welty83
06-24-2008, 02:41 PM
i ran it in a toyota pickup, and i dont know about mpg, but i could feel a huge difference when i passed someone on the road in power and torque, felt like i was in a rocket compared to the old fuel i ran in it, it will mess up certain lines and injectors because they are not made for the ethanol, it eats away some gaskets ive found out, and thats about it, on your average car though the computer will switch itself when it senses the fuel being ran because it does run totally different. ive thought about running it in my atvs, but am still unsure, i know its a lot higher octane, outs is 107 here, which is like 24 points above our 83 octane, i just dont know what all it would need to be raplaced just gasket maybe? but if anyone does it let me know

scrambler250R
07-31-2008, 02:36 AM
other than the octane factor, why run alcohol in a drag machine? if it has less OOMPH to it than gas, seems like a power decrease to me?

I'm not totaly sure but,I think because of the higher octane you can run higher compression and that means more power right?:TrikesOwn

The Goat
07-31-2008, 04:07 AM
a lot of import cars after 2004 have the ability to run alternative fuels..and do it quite well.

If I run two tanks of gas with at least 10% ethanol in my car...I do see a boost in power...as well as a boost in mileage. nothing major...merely a 1-2 mpg gain, and instead of the tires slipping slightly when it pops into second, they will bark. nothing more. I think the gain in mpgs is actually do to less strain on the engine as it's creating slightly more power. When you only have a 1.5...if I'm carrying groceries I notice a loss in juice. every little bit helps.

scrambler...one of those posts up their hit the nail on the head with why it's better.

fabiodriven
07-31-2008, 02:05 PM
This may be a little off the subject, and has nothing to do with ATV's. I've just started to look into converting my truck to run on water. That's right, water. There's a homemade setup that uses your vehicle's electrical system to extract the hydrogen that's in water and then your engine runs off the hydrogen. I haven't looked closely enough to give details, but I've been told it's very simple to do and yeilds AT LEAST a 35% increase in fuel mileage. Most vehicles do even better, some people report as much as a 235% (Yes, 235%) increase in fuel mileage. My buddy saw one of these cars run in person and was told everything to do the conversion is bought at the hardware store and cost about $300. I'm planning on doing this conversion soon and would definately urge others to look into this as well. Oh yeah, the only by-product of burning hydrogen is water.

WIkid500
08-06-2008, 07:14 PM
This may be a little off the subject, and has nothing to do with ATV's. I've just started to look into converting my truck to run on water. That's right, water. There's a homemade setup that uses your vehicle's electrical system to extract the hydrogen that's in water and then your engine runs off the hydrogen. I haven't looked closely enough to give details, but I've been told it's very simple to do and yeilds AT LEAST a 35% increase in fuel mileage. Most vehicles do even better, some people report as much as a 235% (Yes, 235%) increase in fuel mileage. My buddy saw one of these cars run in person and was told everything to do the conversion is bought at the hardware store and cost about $300. I'm planning on doing this conversion soon and would definately urge others to look into this as well. Oh yeah, the only by-product of burning hydrogen is water.



A friend is working on this project. I don't know all the details but you need a square wave converter. 36 volts will be better than 18, the best active ingredient to use in your solution is pure lye from your local farm store.

He has been running it on his ford pickup. The key is to leaning out the gas mixture as you are injecting hydrogen into the intake. Yes you will gain mpg but you will not "easily" be able to run in straight hydrogen from the converter.

It does work and you will need to know a little chemistry and a bit about electricity.