911 facts! omfg get the facts!!! this is sad but true

[WLL]

www.loosechange.com

[Tri-ZNate]

Pentagon still makes me wonder wtf happened. This is gonna be a long thread :lol:

[oldsking86]

I think I don't want to be a part of this thread haha Just the sheer thought of all that and our corrupt government makes me sick...

[Captainron62]

no rational thinking human being can believe 9/11 was any sort of government conspiracy. we have had presidents that cant even keep marital affairs secret. all of the conspiracy theories have been debunked by independant authorities inside and outside of the US.

[firehart]

JFK did it.

[oldsking86]

no rational thinking human being can believe 9/11 was any sort of government conspiracy. we have had presidents that cant even keep marital affairs secret. all of the conspiracy theories have been debunked by independant authorities inside and outside of the US.

that's what they want you to believe.. guess it worked

[ProCarbine2k1]

Here we go... :lol: :lol:
Do I believe 911 was a conspiracy? Nope, but would I put it past our government to attempt something like that? Definitely not. Although I think most of the 911 conspiracy stuff is way over the top, I think its a good thing that American citizens dont too much faith in our government...

[Captainron62]

that's what they want you to believe.. guess it worked

trust me, there is no "they"

gov. is made up of a whole bunch of "I' s" which is one of the many reasons it is inefficient.

[SYKO]

I think I don't want to be a part of this thread haha Just the sheer thought of all that and our corrupt government makes me sick...


I wouldnt like to be part of this either if I looked like you.....you look more like a raghead then a cuban


:welcome:

[oldsking86]

I wouldnt like to be part of this either if I looked like you.....you look more like a raghead then a cuban


:welcome:

You know, I think I saw a group of yours on the news yesterday, making their way over the lines :lol: :welcome:

Overall I do agree with you Captainron62, the gov. is very inefficient but like any person greed runs it all and there is corruption in there, there is no possible way there couldn't be any.

[Dammit!]

There are many more videos out there that are better than Loose Change. Look up WTC7 on google video to get started. There's a lot of footage out there that disputes the official explanation regarding that building in particular. I've watched just about all of them but can't remember which movies had what footage anymore.

There's another video about the legality of the income tax that has some information regarding the owner of the WTC complex and the timeline of when he took ownership and the insurance policies he took out right afterwards that raise an eyebrow too. The bad thing about that is you have to sit through the tax crap to get to it (interesting but boring at the same time). I haven't seen one single WTC video yet that really combines all of the most signifigant pieces into one vid yet.

[The Goat]

well i don't think the government was behind this particular incident, however, i will say the bush administration is obviously following the Roman model. If you keep a war brewing on the edge of the empire, you don't have a war at home. You can doubt the man's actions, you can doubt his motives, but you can't doubt that it works.

Only problem is that once Rome stopped fighting, the barbarians showed up a lot closer to home.

[Chevy200s]

Well I ended up deleting most of what I typed I figured it wasnt worth the effort. I am curious though, is anyone on this website a Civil Air Patrol member, or was one during this time? If so and you happened to be down there helping clean up you probably have a hard time watching the vidoes that say it was a cruise missle that hit the Pentagon.

As far as the government planning all this, I've heard some people say it was to give us an excuse to go to Iraq and Afghanistan. Please, if your going to take the time to watch videos like this that anyone could have made, spend equal time doing some reading. Specifically, read Saddam's Secrets by Iraqi General Georges Sada, he was a key advisor to SoDamn Insane back in the day. The stuff I read in there is wild, about steps we took under the first Bush administration against Saddam, what Clinton's administration did not do, and things done by the current administration. A bit also pertains to 9/11, Its a longer book but well worth the read. There are many others but thats the one I'm reading currently. I know the fact that its a book doesnt mean its 100% true, it could very well be all wrong, I just feel like most people today will believe whatever they see in videos on the internet without crackin a book open. To Dammit, I think its cool that you did some research to find other videos and information about the WTC7 and the like, maybe I'm wrong and jumping the gun sorry if I pissed anyone off, just venting I guess haha. anyways, carry on with the discussion at least we all agree on our trikes:lol:

[hancadam]

I think anyone who believes any of this crap is just another crazed liberal who hates Bush and America.

[Dammit!]

I'm so far from being a liberal that I can't even see one from here. :lol:

[oldsking86]

How do you explain the theory "the rich is getting richer and the poor is getting poorer"? among that, who has the control over that.... though with the money and power to do so!
Honestly to think that in no way there is any corruption and our country sits where it does now because it just happened is very inaccurate. Yes some of the videos out there are crazed but MANY of them are damn good! Ever seen the ones about the the income tax? Now the facts in there are very stern and even better when our government officials in these agencies can't even give you a straight forward answer! You'll never make it in this world if you think you are happy where you are and think "they" have everything under control.. and to think you can't do anything now that's just wrong! It just tkaes time for people to realize they are being abused then things will change

[Chevy200s]

oldsking86, good points there but still I dont think I'm on the same page as you. as for explaining the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, of course the system isnt completely fair and there is definitly corruption, but for the most part this is how capitalism goes, you work hard and do well you are rewarded and your insentive to continue to prosper increases, and the opposite is supposed to be true as well. Obviously people will take advantage of this and I'm sure this happens far too often in politics, but try to find another country and/or system were this doesnt happen.

Gees, look at Saddam Hussien and how he abused the sanctions, oil profits, food for oil program and everything, while he and other members of the Baath party were getting richer off his country and his people's hard work, the citizens were getting poorer. Again I only use the Iraq example because its fresh in my mind with what I'm reading now and its also a pretty hotly debated subject. But you find greed and corruption in any system of government, it just seems like the media in this country is allowed to get away with showing a lot more of it here, so much more that I think at times they exagerate things to sell their story but thats another issue.

I'm not saying "oh well, they do bad things but everyone does so its ok we shouldnt do anything about it", thats not what I'm saying at all. It seems to me (and I'm probably wrong) that most of these and other videos such as farenheit 911 seem to point all the fingers and show how there could be problems and who to blame, but never any real suggestions or attempts to fix them. Study some politics and history, open some books, vote if you can. I am mostly conservative in my views but I have much more respect for the far left liberal who at least knows what they're arguing about and takes the time to vote than the right wing conservative who just likes to pick on liberals (just using this as an example). Oh well I dont know why I got into this kind of discussion, were supposed to be talkin about 250R's and Tecate's and such haha my bad. good points made though guys

EDIT: just saw your point about income tax, thats another mess in its self. Just curious, are you pretty libertarian or at least follow a lot of those ideals? Nothing wrong with that or anything just curious.

[oldsking86]

Well said Sir.. Yes for the most part I guess I could be called a libertarian but overall I sometimes rather choose not to get involved with politics in general.

A lot of the movies like you mentioned do point fingers and never really say how we can fix the problem at hand. That goes hand in hand with the media in general. The amount of crap they blow out of proportion is what makes people get scared and confused on what to do. If I remember correctly, NBC which is one of the well known media fronts is owned by GE... a thing I like to call "Old Money" which like many huge historic names (Like the Vanderbilt's, Mr. Rockefeller, etc.) are linked to they biggest companies that run numerous things in our country and world. It's things like this that we all need to be aware of because overall they have control of everything that is done one way or another. Like mentioned in any government, greed and corruption start from the source, the real money makers.

We can't be blind to anything these days because yes you can work hard and be rewarded but do due so you need an education... which most people nor college kids can barely afford due to crappy jobs. These jobs themselves are bad to because while the CEO get's richer and richer every year, how often does an employee of say Walmart, Publix, Target, etc get a raise or good bonus? Ask em and you'll here their response. Squat!

Idk there are sooooo many different things that are involved with it and it's as simple as this. You have to beat the system one way or another to really make it and get ahead. Man I could go on and on and on with this thread haha let's see if they will keep it open for some debating. We have other threads that we can discuss about trikes like we should ;)

::EDIT:: I just realized your use of Capitalism and that is a great choice of word to describe this all. I myself say the same; as for many other people who are "brain washed" with the term Democracy HA!

[Dammit!]

Unfortunately just about all of the proffesionally done movies are heavily slanted in their political views (which is why when you bring them up everybody calls you a stupid Bush hating liberal :lol: ). Another problem with them is a lot of them will quote inaccurate sources and act like it's gospel or something which makes them look like fools when it's pointed out that their source is inaccurate on a given subject. Many of them also focus on weak evidence while not paying much if any attention to other aspects that have a wealth of hard evidence available. There's one called "911 - In Plane Site" that's on google video that's very popular but also very guilty of the above. There's good footage in there but a lot of the commentary is suspect to say the least. There's also a couple things they focus on in that one that are extremely controversial that should have been left out completely because they're so far fetched. There's even some footage used in it that looks like it's been messed with if you take the time to look at it side by side with other sources.

The only way to cut through the BS is to watch everything that's out there and disregard the commentary, check footage used against raw samples (they're out there), verify their sources and make up your own mind. The footage itself and credible eye witness testimony is strong enough that once you see a lot of it, you won't be so quick to believe what you've been told happened that day. You also won't be so quick to believe every detail in all these 911 movies. When you're all done you won't come up with any hard answers but you'll be left with a LOT of questions that have not been answered in any credible way. Questions that SHOULD be easy to answer if what we're lead to believe is what really happened. Not so easy to answer when it's not (which itself raises even more questions).

I'm waiting for a video to come around that just bluntly presents all the good evidence without all the dramatic music, tabloid like delivery and slanted opinions added to it. All the best footage and testimony. Just facts and questions. They all get in trouble when they try to answer the questions. That's when you cross over into conspiracy "theory" territory.

[rally4x4racer]

If any of you are lost enough to think such attacks were anything other than terrorism, and that this war is anything more than retaliation for our fallen citizens- you should go to the dessert and wash your hands in blood, then remove the towel from your head and dry them.

[Chevy200s]

I do believe that the attacks were acts of terrorism, and I personally cant stand most of these movies, but I figured its only fair to see the other side of the discussion before making my opinions. While some of them might contain interesting facts and be well done it seems like most of them are just out there to capture attention and provide some entertainment. Like I said though, I have no reason to believe the attacks were anything other than terrorists.

[Vealmonkey]

The picture footage that always gets me, are the pictures from the camera in the pentagon parking lot. Not many, if any at all jet liners, make small contrails at ground level. And what would be so bad about showing pictures of the "so called" jet before it impacted the pentagon. I think if you saw definite pictures of that jet, then at least that part of the controversy would be debunked. Alot of the information just doesn't make sense. I've seen the aftermath of a jet airliner crash, from Paris Mountain in Virginia in the late 70s and I can tell you that it is not very neat and tidy. Aircraft debris everywhere, clothing everywhere and dare I say, body bits everywhere. Not everything is vaporised on impact.

[Dammit!]

If any of you are lost enough to think such attacks were anything other than terrorism, and that this war is anything more than retaliation for our fallen citizens- you should go to the dessert and wash your hands in blood, then remove the towel from your head and dry them.

First of all, don't for one second think that just because a person questions the events that happened on 9/11 that said person does not support our troops or is in any way not a Patriot. Asking for answers to very serious questions should never be considered anti-american.


It is the duty of every patriot to protect his country from its government.
Thomas Paine
US patriot & political philosopher (1737 - 1809)

No matter how hard either side tries to prove their case, I'm always left with questions that nobody is coming up with a good answer for. When I watch these conspiracy films, every one of them will have me saying "yeah f***ing right! You people are morons!" several times. But when I read the web sites that try to disprove the conspiracy theories, they never answer all the questions either or they do it in a way that's easy to pick apart just like their adversaries do. They have their own agendas just like the liberals.

A LOT of the popular conspiracy theories can be disproved. There are also some facts that aren't so easy to disprove. And there's a lot of events before, during and after 9/11 that don't jive with the official report and/or are a little too convenient.

It's been a while since I went on a research binge. Maybe if I did it again I could answer some of the questions I was left with last time. As far as I know the government has not released anything new yet. Some of the main problems I have with everything can only be answered by them unfortunately. If they'd just release the damn pentagon surveilance footage this whole thing could finally be put to rest. We're talking about one of the most heavily guarded buildings in the world with security cameras EVERYWHERE, inside and outside and the only thing they have ever released is five frames of footage that only shows a fireball with no plane. If a plane really hit that building, there's virtually no chance in hell it wasn't caught on camera. If there's no conspiracy and what they say is the whole truth, why not release the footage and shut everybody up? Nobody would be happier than about it than me.

Since the pro-conspiracy information is easier to find than the opposing point of view, here's the best "there was no conspiracy" site I have found.

http://www.911myths.com

They do a good job of busting a lot of the crap that's out there but some of the stronger stuff is not adequately debunked and some of their sources are just as suspect as the other guys.

[scrawny]

propaganda is propaganda....the corperate media is just as heavily slanted as most of these films. i agree with the ppl that say you have to watch everything, make a good investigative decision for yourself. what troubles me with that is its prolly smack dab in the middle somewhere, that is a VERY scary realization for me. we the (average joe) ppl need to take this country back.

let me say that i dont doubt for a second that 911 was a "terrorist" act against our GOVERNMENT/corperate infastructure ive heard most of the theorys. i have one thing that bothers me. weve all heard stories about the guy who accidently wanders into protected airspace over DC with his cessna, military jets are scrambled and he is escorted out of the sky. do you really think they couldnt find these planes? now the prospect of shooting down some american citizens for the sparing of thousands of lives might not sound justified, but i think it makes more sense than sending almost 4000 americans to their death in a different country. this is not democracy, its hypocracy. if we live to be old, i believe that there will be a single event that will change EVERYONES view of how our govt really is....then the real azz kicking will commence!!