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View Full Version : Round twin row bearing carrier aplications??



OZQUAD44
01-08-2008, 08:54 AM
I'm i the process of giving my Tecate a freshen up.

I want to put a round syle chain adjuster on it along with a custom made +2" swinger.

I've seen these bearing carriers advertised on the net. Said to siut Banshees, 660 raptors and blasters. (picture enclosed). Are they a geneic style bearing carrier??

I'm after this style because it comes with the Caliper mount.

My question is this. What diameter axle are they made to accept. Theroretically , as long as the axle diameter is good, I could make any axlework in there could I not?

Has anyone used one of these carriers in a custom role?

stealthduner
01-08-2008, 02:15 PM
the only one i am 100% sure on having a carrier like that is the 86 ATC250R (not 85) and the 86-89 TRX250R. I also believe the 400EX, and 450R have that style too but i'd wait and see if anybody has one of those to know for sure

The one for the 250R is the best in my mind due top the massive supply of aftermarket axles, hubs etc.

TeamGeek6
01-09-2008, 07:11 PM
Id not be so concerned about the axle as the material the carrier is made of. Picture looks like aluminum. if so, id think twice about jumping or using an extended axle.

That looks like my 86R carrier, it wasnt as much problem as the seals , bearings and swingarm going to pieces.

Did I read it right that it has 4 bearings instead of 2? if so, be even more careful, multiple bearings like that are difficult to design. Id NOT rely on 4 bearings in an appliction like that where the axle is hanging out in space. deflection or bending in the axle can load or unload a bearing in the pair, resulting in one not carrying any load. this can derate the pair or even cause bearing damage.

SWIGIN
01-09-2008, 07:57 PM
Id not be so concerned about the axle as the material the carrier is made of. Picture looks like aluminum. if so, id think twice about jumping or using an extended axle.

That looks like my 86R carrier, it wasnt as much problem as the seals , bearings and swingarm going to pieces.

Did I read it right that it has 4 bearings instead of 2? if so, be even more careful, multiple bearings like that are difficult to design. Id NOT rely on 4 bearings in an appliction like that where the axle is hanging out in space. deflection or bending in the axle can load or unload a bearing in the pair, resulting in one not carrying any load. this can derate the pair or even cause bearing damage.



you have no idea what your talking about.

all ajustable carriers are aluminum ( that style anyway)
the factory uses cast aluminum and those are machined out of a solid peice....much stronger.

the double row bearings are the standard in raceing... you wouldnt catch me dead with a single stock type bearing

SWIGIN
01-09-2008, 08:09 PM
I'm i the process of giving my Tecate a freshen up.

I want to put a round syle chain adjuster on it along with a custom made +2" swinger.

I've seen these bearing carriers advertised on the net. Said to siut Banshees, 660 raptors and blasters. (picture enclosed). Are they a geneic style bearing carrier??

I'm after this style because it comes with the Caliper mount.

My question is this. What diameter axle are they made to accept. Theroretically , as long as the axle diameter is good, I could make any axlework in there could I not?

Has anyone used one of these carriers in a custom role?


if you are getting a costum made swingarm then just get a carrier for whatever axle you want to run and have the fab guy make the swinger to work with it.

if you get that carrier then youll have to get a yamaha axle

OZQUAD44
01-11-2008, 12:34 AM
if you are getting a costum made swingarm then just get a carrier for whatever axle you want to run and have the fab guy make the swinger to work with it.

if you get that carrier then youll have to get a yamaha axle

At the end of the day I want a wide axle for the rear of my 87 Tecate. I'm not a fan of wheel spacers, plus the ones I'm running arn't wide enough. A plus 2" swinger is on the shopping list also, but its the wide rear end that is the main aim I suppose.

In addition to that I would like to run standard Tecate rims, so this means getting a carrier to fit a Tecate axle. Unfortunatly thay don't make T3 round style bearing carriers, and 86/7 T3 wide axles are a thing of the past.

They used to make T4 bearing carriers to run a T4 axle that will fit T3 hubs but I haven't see them advertised for a while. Plus T4 axles ain't that common either.

People have talked about T3 hubs fitting on some honda axles, but if they are not a perfect fit I don't want to go to all that effort for a half arsed job.

People have also talked about T4 axles fitting T3 carriers with a spacer, but again the info is all a bit wishy washy.

I really need a few axles and swingarms at my disposal before I can make an imformed decision on which brand of carrier/axle combination to go with.

I have a spare stock YFZ axle, the T3 hubs slide onto that axle but they are a bit sloppy.

I believe Tri-Z tunes? said he fitted an 86 T3 with a 400ex axle, but it was a while ago and he can't remember the details, nor did he have any photos.

Perhaps I should start a thread asking what other owners have done?

stealthduner
01-11-2008, 10:57 PM
if you use honda/yamaha whatever rearend, you might can get those billet wheel adaptors (usually about an inch wide) that will adapt the Honda/yamaha to your Tecate bolt pattern

Just a thought

69HemiGTX
01-12-2008, 01:08 AM
Swigin knows what he is talking about when it comes to strength and reliability with the type of carrier you are looking at. Yes, the factory carriers are aluminum, and they are cast aluminum at that. Cast aluminum is very malleable, meaning it can be deformed easily. Just look at how many factory carriers have damaged adjustment tabs. Factory carriers are also designed to be adequate for average use and service intervals while at the same time being the cheapest to produce. Aftermarket carriers are machined from a solid billet of forged aluminum, hence the term "billet aluminum." They are much stronger than factory parts, and have been used for the better part of fifteen years, more than proving the longevity of the material and design. For the bearings, the factory bearings were simple ball bearings, which have tolerable but not great lateral (meaning sideways) load capabilities. Aftermarket carriers use four tapered roller bearings, significantly increasing the capable lateral load. Another benefit of tapered bearings is that the actual rollers have much more surface area than a typical ball bearing, helping to spread out the load and increase its life expectancy. Since aftermarket carriers use four bearings, you also get a net decrease of 50% load on each bearing. In a stock carrier, each bearing supports 50% of the load whereas an aftermarket carrier's bearings only support 25%, effectively reducing bearing load by half. All in all, aftermarket carriers are far superior to factory parts, so don't hesitate to use one. My advice is to stay far away from factory parts when such high-quality aftermarket parts are available at an affordable price.

About the swingarm, I can't remember who it is, but a member either here or over at .org makes round carrier swingarms for any trike imaginable. I would get one made to use the 250R axle and components simply because there are so many options out there. Limiting yourself to the Tecate wheel pattern greatly reduces the amount of wheels available to you. The Honda pattern (4 on 110) is the most common, so I would use it. Even though the four strokes have come of age, there will always be a market for 250R parts, and someone will always make them.

SWIGIN
01-12-2008, 01:37 AM
i just want to clarify one thing. a twin row and a tapered carrier are two different things

twin row bearings are just that, a single bearing with 2 rows of balls.
witch makes them twice as strong as stock single row bearings.

tapered bearings are just like th
e bearings found in the front hub of most older cars and have to be like 10 times stronger than even the twin row bearings.

iv ran all 3 types and will never go back to stock

69HemiGTX
01-12-2008, 02:21 AM
Oh yeah, I know that, but I'm pretty biased. I don't even think about twin row carriers. Twin rows only use typical ball bearings, which I don't ever consider using. I only use tapered bearings, so that's why I automatically talk about them as opposed to twin row carriers. Sorry for the confusion.

SWIGIN
01-12-2008, 12:08 PM
but you say they have 4 tapered bearings in them...... no one has made a quad taper bearing carrier.....just want to make sure these guys get good answers.

SWIGIN
01-12-2008, 12:11 PM
[QUOTE=69HemiGTX;577047] Aftermarket carriers use four tapered roller bearings, significantly increasing the capable lateral load. Another benefit of tapered bearings is that the actual rollers have much more surface area than a typical ball bearing, helping to spread out the load and increase its life expectancy. Since aftermarket carriers use four bearings, you also get a net decrease of 50% load on each bearing. In a stock carrier, each bearing supports 50% of the load whereas an aftermarket carrier's bearings only support 25%, effectively reducing bearing load by half.

this is where i think you are confused some

69HemiGTX
01-13-2008, 12:31 AM
You're right Swigin. I think I got a little mixed up because I bought a carrier from a guy in my shop, and he had modified it to use four tapered bearings instead of two. I work in the powertrain shop, so we have thousands of bearings in our benchstock to choose from. 95% Timken, baby! :naughty:

3Razors
01-13-2008, 12:17 PM
OZQUAD, the pic you have is "round housing" banshee carrier. It is very popular to convert the banshee to a round housing swingarm because it is stronger and much easier to adjust the chain. Lot of quads do this modification you are talking about, it is a good one!

I run the banshee round housing on my kx500 trike. It's really nice because you have virtually unlimited choices when it comes to axles, sprockets, hubs, ect. Any size and style is available for the banshee.

I know metal tech swingarms in phx here has built a couple tecate swingarms with the round housing. They usually run $450-500 and come in any length you want.

http://www.metaltechproducts.com/

OZQUAD44
01-13-2008, 11:21 PM
3Razors, you-Da-man. I was hoping someone would have a bit more info on oneoffs.

You make a good point on the banshee, probably has the most aftermarket gear out there, and those carriers are the cheapest new ones I've found.

I'll check the site out.