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View Full Version : Scrapped the suspension idea, added 250r forks to 200e



Mr.Jake
01-17-2008, 07:52 PM
I took the swinger off the 250r and made a braket for it, welded her all up and it works great. The piston also came in for the engine so its all back together. But i have one problem, i bent the jet holder. I took the one out of the 250r carb and put it in the 200es. Will this work? So far all i get is it will almost start but not quite. Please help me here, i think the stupid thing is discontinued. Ill get pics up of the frame soon, gotta go out and get it running first!:beer

ccdhowell
01-17-2008, 11:56 PM
I would really like to see your rear suspension. I have a 200es that is begging to be suspended. As for your questions, sorry, can't help.

McDerry
01-18-2008, 02:48 AM
Sounds like he made a 200e suspended...

bigred1
01-18-2008, 08:36 AM
not sure but i think the two carbs would not work together. i picked up a 200s that had a 200x carb on it and i still can't figure a way to get it right so good luck. I also would realy like to see what you did with the frame sounds cool.

Mr.Jake
01-18-2008, 09:19 AM
Here she is:D . Not even close to being done as you can see:wondering . I still need to make the mount for the rear brake, make some sort of chain tensioner, get the motor running good, and if it can be done, put on some 250r front forks, triples and all. Will they fit?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/jake_walsh/DSC00527.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/jake_walsh/DSC00523.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/jake_walsh/DSC00521.jpg

tri-Z ripper
01-18-2008, 09:33 AM
Pretty mad scientist to me hell i would have just looked for a 200X you should take off your tires and support your axel at the same height to make sure your bracket is straight if not when the suspension is compressed it may lean to one side causing for some crazy handeling!! but heyYAMAHONDAMAN

200x Basket
01-18-2008, 02:36 PM
that will not last one ride. sorry :(

not to mention the fact that the pivot point and engine sprocket are so far off that you will never keep a chain on it.

Mr.Jake
01-18-2008, 03:48 PM
thats why im making a chain tightener, im thinking a little spring loaded sproket that keeps constant tension on the chain.
And what do you mean it wont last one ride! Ive already jumped on it and beat it with a sledge to test the welds. Its solid as hell. When i get the engine running ill post a vid and show you up!!! (hopefully)

200x Basket
01-18-2008, 04:16 PM
be sure to wear your helmet, you will need it:)

ATC185R
01-18-2008, 04:18 PM
Those swinger pivot points look weak as hell. But sweeet idea.

atctim
01-18-2008, 05:13 PM
Good thinking - but at the very very least - you need braces where I have drawn red line - otherwise it will fold like a wet cardboard box on anything but smooth pavement.

tyman
01-18-2008, 05:19 PM
sorry... but that just doesn't look braced enough... nothing keeps it from swaying back and forth and breaking those 2 ears off.... and you have cotter pins holding the swingarm on....

Also, is that shock mount just welded to the side of that frame strut-piece. If so, i would weld a piece of steel across the frame and to the mount... it looks like alot of weight sitting on that mount...

so.....

1. Make gussets on those ears and to the frame.
2. Get a swing arm bolt and actually bolt it on...
3. More shockmount reinforcement
4. Health insurance



no i'm not being mean... but it just doesn't look safe.... spend a little more time and reinforce that thing...

Mr.Jake
01-18-2008, 05:23 PM
yeah, theres definately gonna be more braces added. The pivot point is accually welded to shiat, but i will rienforce it it you think its needed. I dont know what 200x Basket's so concerned about, he even posted a topic "someone help this guy out" wtf? I even said its not even close to being done, how can you say anything if its not done yet, im posting pics up to show my idea, and get feedback on how to make it work. Both the trikes i picked up were completely foojed, so i thought id make 1 out of the 2. I have a good 200m as a dialy rider, this is just a winter project for me.

Mr.Jake
01-18-2008, 05:24 PM
and as for the swinger bolt, i have to find a nut to fit it, the cotter pins just holding it while i work on it.

Dirtcrasher
01-18-2008, 05:40 PM
Sorry, it does not look safe.... Is that 1/4" x 1" plate or something?

That whole mess should be chopped off, the "V" chopped off of the rear of your frame and a tubular piece welded right to your frame with the middle area between the swingarm filled in also. As for the comment about the chain, I agree with that also. That pivot point is what? 10"'s away from the sprocket??

Not tryin to hurt any pride here but if any portion of that fails you are gonna get F'd up real bad.

I'd also try to duplicate the original shock angle a bit closer.

jason 32
01-18-2008, 07:08 PM
well your going to blow the shock more than likely - because the spring tension
is too weak for that angle- ,so you will bottom out real easy- ect..
looks weak but look at stock stuff some factories shouldnt make things, so it might last longer than people think

200x Basket
01-18-2008, 07:12 PM
i jsut wanted you to get more opinions then mine. I hope they help. look at some 200x pics to see how the pivot should be. you should be able to draw i straight line through the center of the rear axle, the pivot bolt, and the engine sprocket. the pivot also be as close as possible to the engine sprocket.

neo19672000
01-18-2008, 08:59 PM
Just a quick question on this? you say your modding an "R" swinger and axle to a 200es, correct? I was under the understanding that a 200es was shaft driven, at least mine is. Not trying to be a smartazz here but hows that gonna work?

Mr.Jake
01-18-2008, 10:10 PM
i was told by the people here that it was a 83 200es. Its got high and low gear and eleectric start. If anyone knows what it accually is let me know. Looks like ill be chopping the frame tomorow and making it right. Thanks for saving me from a potential injury, i was kind of caught in the moment and didnt take my time, i just wanted to ride!

TeamGeek6
01-19-2008, 12:42 AM
This isnt an opinion. that thing has the potential to kill you. Faster than a normal ATV will.

Hitting welds with a sledgehammer means NOTHING.

ITs a problem of "moments" which is an engineering term that means the long lever (swingarm ) with wheels will bend on the arm and either (or both) break the welds or twist the swinger bolt. Its not stabilized againts the top frame. NO strength.

The ONLY thing that will make it work at all are those squishy stock tires, which are dangerous to start with.

Yes, the welds are nice, I can see it in the picture, except the square parts will crack. Look at the factory swingarm, you dont see welds on square edges (anywhere on the vehicle)

Theres a reason engineers design vehicle frames. Great that youre willing to experiment, but have to live long enough to brag about it.

Mr.Jake
01-19-2008, 01:22 AM
well said TeamGeek, im glad i posted pics up. Aside from being ragged on about how shitty of an idea it was, you may have also saved me from injury. Im gonna see if i can cut the rear part of the 250r and weld it to the rear of the 200 frame. And this time im gonna accually think of safety, and not just if it works. I looked at my 250r frame and really didnt want to cut it, but notices that the holes where the engine bolts to are all cracked and the front fork stem(?) is bent to hell. So i would be better to find a decent 250r somewhere down the road.
Thanks guys

runaway
01-19-2008, 03:13 AM
HELLO
look i dont want to bash on you,but the pivot point of the swingarm must be level or near level to the sprocket on your engine this is a must. i know what its like to want something so bad and you just cant afford it or get it,but you need to slow down and think these things thru. if you could take some photos of the rear of your trike without the swing arm on there maybe we can suggest to you how to fix it. i need to see wat you cut off also. do you still have the old rear carrier if so maybe you could do something like this.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s221/runaway_017/th_185s3.jpg (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s221/runaway_017/185s3.jpg)
hope this helps

McDerry
01-19-2008, 03:57 AM
well your going to blow the shock more than likely - because the spring tension
is too weak for that angle- ,so you will bottom out real easy- ect..
looks weak but look at stock stuff some factories shouldnt make things, so it might last longer than people think

Umm its straight up and down, he couldnt pick a better angle to maximize the springs payload capacity. The only downside side is he has cut the usable travel in the shock. Hypotehtically, the suspension goes from needing 50 lbs of rider to sag a inch to 100+ lbs of rider to sag a inch, and form 9 inches or rear travel to 3 inchs of rear travel. I'd imagine teh reasoning is to keep teh battery and toolbox ont eh bike.


In reality the lower mounts are not satisfactory, Mind you they could be gusseted, to take a side impact, in addition to needing to be braced back up to the rear of the frame and probally crossbraced aswell...

The top mount could use some brace work aswell.

Yes you could tension teh chain witha spring loaded arm and roller, but you woudl want two rollers to at the swing arm pivot aswell. The chain would ride on these rollers to make it follow the arc of the swingarm.

Mind you it can be done, your just 15% of the way there.

HaggLE
01-19-2008, 06:10 AM
Ok, so when you go and start again consider these things:
1. Make the swinger pivot as close to the output shaft of the engine as possible. When the suspension travels it will not change the tension on the chain as much if you mount it closer.
2. Try and inside mount the swing arm, not outside. It will be far stronger.
3. Remember the swing arm is upside down so shock mounts might be tricky and as previously mentioned try and keep the same distance between the swing arm pivot and the shock top mount as it was on the 250r.
4. Mount the standard adjuster washers with a slotted hole for chain adjustment. Its going to be the easiest thing to do. Instead of mounting a fork shaped thing to the frame weld a nut to the frame that has had the thread drilled out, it will be easier.
This is how my father did his 185s frame back in the 80's.
Good luck.
http://3wheelerworldforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=58281&d=1199579001
http://3wheelerworldforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=58283&d=1199579001

OZQUAD44
01-19-2008, 12:02 PM
Mr Jake
I take my hat off to you for having a go, but I think there are people here that are offering some constructive advice here that will help your project along.

Thats what this Mad Sientists Lair is all about. Helping each other out.

Even with chain tensioners, that pivot distance is going to cause you major headaches. If you can, try and get that swingarm pivot as close as possible to the sprocket/engine cases. Then you can also move your top shock mount forward to the next cross member, which will also require some bracing.

Good luck bloke.

atctim
01-19-2008, 03:58 PM
Mr Jake - FYI

1982 and 1983 Big Reds were ATC200E - chain drive - hi and lo range and electric start

1984 was the one and only year for the ATC200ES which is basically the same machine EXCEPt it has reverse - and shaft drive. What you have is a 200E Big Red - NOT 200ES

Mr.Jake
01-19-2008, 07:24 PM
ok, thanks for clearing that up.

Russell 350X
02-02-2008, 09:51 PM
Looks like a big cluster-f*ck to me. If you wanted suspension so bad, then why did you just find a 200X roller to put that engine into?

bigred1
02-03-2008, 09:40 AM
sooo is there any progress on this.... i hope you didnt give up on it i was looking foward to see how it turned out after of course you put into play some of the advice ya got here. keep working on it and post some more pics i like the idea and hope it turns out for you.

Mr.Jake
02-03-2008, 04:41 PM
the idea was scrapped, i reattached the part i cut from the original frame. And put the swnger away for now. I did put 250r forks on the front of the 200e though, and holy shiat, its alot more fun to ride than my 200m, huge improvment on front suspension. I may get a pic up if i remember to.

Russell 350X
02-03-2008, 05:32 PM
the idea was scrapped, i reattached the part i cut from the original frame. And put the swnger away for now. I did put 250r forks on the front of the 200e though, and holy shiat, its alot more fun to ride than my 200m, huge improvment on front suspension. I may get a pic up if i remember to.



Please do, I would like to see this.

the great gazoo
02-03-2008, 05:32 PM
I'm itching to se it! I'd also like to see & hear alil more about your YT175:pics: :pics: :pics: ?? Please!

Mr.Jake
02-04-2008, 12:35 AM
I sold the tri moto about 2 weeks ago, it had a .005 bore and i put a wiseco piston in it and some boyeseen power reeds, and a bunch of other little things, it didn't really suit my riding style, it doesn't have speed of a racer or power of a work trike, so i sold it and got the 250r roller and 200e. the 250r fork threads were all stripped and the top mushroomed in from the previeous owner, probably trying to get it out with a sledge or something, so i had to cut the stem off and weld the 200e on.
Ytm 175
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/jake_walsh/DSC00511.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/jake_walsh/DSC00508.jpg

200e with 250r front
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/jake_walsh/DSC00604.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/jake_walsh/DSC00602.jpg

I still have a bunch of things left to do on the 200e, i had to rewire the whole thing and haven't been able to get it to charge, need to restore the plastics and maybe get a new red front fender, need to make up some kind of snorkel, better exhaust, clutch work, and a good cleaning as soon as spring arrives.

bigred1
02-15-2008, 11:35 AM
what kinda added lift you think ya got with the r front? iwas thinking of using my x front with my e.

Mr.Jake
02-15-2008, 01:48 PM
It gives a bit, more when i have my tire inflated, lol. Its a way smoother ride with them.

200x Basket
02-16-2008, 03:11 PM
looks like the 200 WAS a nice trike

Mr.Jake
02-16-2008, 03:25 PM
still is, i like it better this way, so thats all that matters. The forks it had were welded solid, so i made do with what i had, and it actually rides real nice.

Dirtcrasher
02-16-2008, 03:49 PM
To each there own... I'm sure it rides better now!

Mr.Jake
02-16-2008, 04:32 PM
To each there own... I'm sure it rides better now!

I dunno if that was sarcasm or not, but it accually does! Alot better. Its leaving tomorow and a 200x is taking its place :naughty: :w00t:
:beer

Dirtcrasher
02-16-2008, 04:52 PM
I dunno if that was sarcasm or not, but it accually does! Alot better. Its leaving tomorow and a 200x is taking its place :naughty: :w00t:
:beer

Twas not sarcasm at all..... How could solid forks feel better??

Mr.Jake
02-16-2008, 05:21 PM
Sorry, i just wasn't sure, alot of people just seemed to be giving me a hard time about this trike, no kidding with the suspension i rigged up, lol. Got pretty carried away, but the forks to me are by far the best mod on one of these trikes, whole different feel!

bigred1
02-18-2008, 07:57 AM
Twas not sarcasm at all..... How could solid forks feel better??


i think he meant the originals were welded solid...maybe?