Project junker! '87 TRX200SX update 3/1/2008

[Havoxx]

Hey peeps, I got my first project, it's in bad shape, but with a little bit of work, I know it can be a peice of crap!. Anyway, it looks worse than it really is, those were before I finished the initial teardown, only thing that's left on it now is the shocks/engine/wheels/tires.

I took off the pull-starter and tried to move it, I thought it was locked up, but after a bit of prying with a breaker-bar I was able to get it loose, seems the starter might've been stuck, though it moves freely now, it does have water in it.

Would like to know how to get the water out as well. Anyway, heres the pics of the peice of junk :D.
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/4514285991.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic/7677729)http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/4514285986.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic/7677728)
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/4514290074.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic/7677730)http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/4514290025.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic/7677731)

Edit: Oh yea, it does have all the plastics, fronts are in great condition, the back one is bad, but it does have a rack.
Heres the rack and the newly painted and re soldered ignition switch.
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/4520444816.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic/7679844)

What's the helmet holder thing btw? Is it just what it implies?

Update 3/1/2008
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/3/6019132444.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic/7762526)http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/3/6019132446.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic/7762527)
This is the bigred carb. The little tube on the right of the picture is where gas spits out from. I might add, it only does that when it's choked.
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/3/6019132371.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic/7762522)http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/3/6019132366.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic/7762523)
This is the original carb, notice that it only has one of those things on the choke part, and no needle.
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/3/6019132421.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic/7762524)http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/3/6019132442.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic/7762525)
Well, I only took a pic of the side and bottom, but it has an extra needle the other has, unless they are the same needle in different places?

GREAT NEWS!!!!!! It started up, we revved it a bit, and it died, but it had no tank, so it works, we're almost certain the problems are since the carb is the one for a 250ES bigred, it most likely has bigger jets, and it has an extra needle which I have no idea what it's for.

But, it's shooting gas out of a little tube by the choke plate. I'll get some pics of it in a bit, show you where. But, it started, that means the $200 invested in it, and the $200 I paid wasn't in vain, and it'll hopefully be up-n-running before I leave in march.

If all goes well, it gets new Maier's as well, so wish me luck!. I'll get some better pictures of it up tomorrow, dark so the bike doesn't look good :D.

[RedRider_AK]

The "helmet holder" is a little tab of bent metal that you hang your helmet strap on. I've never really noticed them anywhere, even though most of the Honda's I've seen have had the sticker on them.

You can flush the crankcase out with diesel fuel, it will absorb most of the water. Then, flush it out a few times with cheapo oil, and go ahead and run it.

I like the look of those rear tires, look like miniature tractor pull treads :lol:

[Havoxx]

Yea, they're actually GoodYears, which I had no idea made ATV tires(if'n they still do). But they are actually really great, even sitting for what looks to be 5-10 years, they still held air, no leaks, and they're not too rotted, though they do have mold on them lol.

I tried to get the starter to turn before I ripped out the wiring, now I thought it was the battery, but as it turns out, the key had a busted lead, so it would always be off :D, It's all nice n soldered now though, and I've already starter sanding/painting some of the stuff I ripped off.

The frame will get sandblasted, as will the springs, A-Arms and swinger, the tank will be cleaned in the parts cleaner and then repainted :D, it's not too rusty inside thankfully, due to the owner using some anti-rust agent in it.

I was curious about the petcock system, if it's busted, can I just put any old valve on it, or am I going to have to buy the petcock?

Oh yea, and the nice and bead-machined rack will be getting here in a little while soon as my dad gets home, so I'll post some pics of it ;).

[evand]

Wow talk about rear sprocket!!!!! lol


looks like a project man have fun with it


i had one of those bikes, you def. cant kill them

[Havoxx]

Yea, guy has a "plump" wife, so he needed it to have extra torque :D, says he dished out $180 on that sprocket :D.

[Havoxx]

Does anyone have a wiring diagram for this particular bike btw? I have one for the 250ES(bigred) it's almost the same, but the wire colors are different.

[RedRider_AK]

he dished out $180 on that sprocket :D.

I didn't know they priced them a buck per tooth... :lol: :lol:

[Havoxx]

Lmao, yea it's huge isn't it, least they can never say I have a small sprocket :-D

[SYKO]

hey man if you want to sell the front plastic let me know! also pm dreadhed he has a parts machine right there in hawthorn Fl, I got a bunch but there is still more on it!

[Havoxx]

yea, I destroyed the carb trying to take the slide out, it's uh, gonna be run over by my silverado tomorrow, before I go pick up another one from my buddy :D. all in all, I hope it's ok engine wise, I'm honestly not going to rip apart the engine, gotta try and get ti started first, got the wiring harness ripped apart on my floor now trying to figure out which peice goes where, I need the colors for it, since the manual I have for it has different colors :D.

[RedRider_AK]

yea, I destroyed the carb trying to take the slide out

Dude, you don't use a hammer for that... :banned:

[Havoxx]

psh, it wasn't a hammer, it was a screwdriver, AND a hammer :D, but no that thing like, expanded, carb would've been wasted no matter what I did, even nearly breaking the case didn't get it out, so heh.

[Havoxx]

Good news, I'm tired as *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited*, and I want to sleep, but I got the wiring harness working perfectly, everything seems to be o.k, only thing I gotta hope is that the CDI is and the spark plug thing is o.k, but I'll check that tomorrow out on the bike, once I get a carb for it. I found the 250 ES diagram, and the after 85 version is to the tee, so I got that thankfully.

Anyway, I'll post some pics tomorrow, and if I can get it started, a vid :D.

[scooterroo]

i have always wanted to do a project 200sx. swap in a totally tricked out 200x motor, for the manny tranny, perhaps extend the rear swinger a few inches, widen both the front and the rear, either with wheel spacers or custom made extended arms and an axle in back. put better shocks on it and a nicer tire and rim combo, custom cut plastics for a more sporty look, and of course a nice 200x chrome dg exhaust or something to the liking. yeah a bit redneck, but i always thought it would be cool. i used to have an 86 brand new when i was a kid and i have always thought about doing that.

[Havoxx]

i have always wanted to do a project 200sx. swap in a totally tricked out 200x motor, for the manny tranny, perhaps extend the rear swinger a few inches, widen both the front and the rear, either with wheel spacers or custom made extended arms and an axle in back. put better shocks on it and a nicer tire and rim combo, custom cut plastics for a more sporty look, and of course a nice 200x chrome dg exhaust or something to the liking. yeah a bit redneck, but i always thought it would be cool. i used to have an 86 brand new when i was a kid and i have always thought about doing that.

Well, apart from me completely destroying the carb in my rage, It doesn't "seem" to be in bad shape, I told my dad though, if it smokes or something, it stays like that until we use it a bit, then we can buy a top-end rebuild kit.

The engine does seem to be made out of kevlar though, seeing as it still turns for sitting for about 5 years getting rained on.

On another note, the wiring harness works perfectly now, I got all the plastic parts(airbox, front cover, and all that other plastic body stuff) painted and nice lookin now.

I'm gonna buy some blue or white paint, and repaint the fenders(whites probably easier) and get those nice and clean.

All in all, I shouldn't waste more than $200-$300 on this project, seeing as everything will be sandblasted/beaded/washed and repainted. Oh yea, and I was wondering, is it legal to rip out the spark-arrestor? they told me it gives you more power if you rip it out.

[Havoxx]

Update, I got the engine turning as you may have read, we tried hooking the starter to a battery, no go, but, I took it out, cleaned it out, and now it turns the engine of it's own power.

Going to reinstall the wiring harness, we decided to nix the paint on the frame, it really doesn't have much rust, so it's not worth ripping it apart, we'll just touch it up. If all goes well, before tonight we can start it, if not, tomorrow is another day.

Oh yea, and there wasn't any water inside the engine, though the piston rings sound dry, so we may have to redo them after ward, but we want to get the engine started, make sure it actually works.

We did get the carb kit, now it's just a matter of hoping it works out :D.

[RedRider_AK]

Shoulda dumped some oil into the overflow/breather line on the head.

[Havoxx]

Yea, thanks for the advice, I will do that, didn't try to start it yet, all the batteries we have are dead, but I do have a little R/C car battery charger, that gives it enough volts to turn the lights on, and such, and the starter now moves, though not with the little charger :D.

everything else seems to be ok, the neutral light won't go on, but after some continuity tests, the wire seems to be broken somewhere. because the light should turn on :D.

I checked to see if it was getting power to the spark-plug, but I didn't see it getting any, though, again, maybe the little charger just doesn't have enough power. everything else is o.k*knock on wood* the carbs rebuilt, ready to be bolted in, after clearing the engine out of any dust it may have, it'll be time to try it.

but thats for tomorrow, I'm tired, and hungry... Oh yeah, does anyone know if this website is trusted? http://www.mfgsupply.com/garage/ATV/ATV1987HondaATC250SX.html/mv_session_id=SSujEmkS

[RedRider_AK]

The site layout is kinda old-school and hokey, but at least there aren't 10 million ads and animations on it! I'd feel all right ordering from there. You trying to get a battery or what?

[Havoxx]

nah, the throttle cable is pretty cheap there, seeing as I broke the tip of mine in the uh, carb-rage :D. unless anyone knows of a way to repair it.

[RedRider_AK]

What's broken, exactly? You can get bolt on barrel-ends if that's what broke.

[Havoxx]

What's broken, exactly? You can get bolt on barrel-ends if that's what broke.

It's that little tip that holds on to the throttle slide, dad said we can just solder it, I figure I can get one off the other cable I have, melt some solder in it over an open flame and dip the cable in there, though I'm not sure if that will work :D.

[RedRider_AK]

Solder will probably break. That's called a barrel end. You can search Google for "removable" or "custom barrel end" and see what comes up.

[Havoxx]

Solder will probably break. That's called a barrel end. You can search Google for "removable" or "custom barrel end" and see what comes up.

Heh, well, the original was actually soldered on there, and it broke after well, uh, how it broke isn't important :D. and some of the ones I do see online are solder on :D.

[RedRider_AK]

Damn. Well, get one and get crackin'

Just not "crackin" the barrel end again. :eek:

[Havoxx]

lol, yea, heated the end of another cable, it shot out a bit of solder and fell off :D, so popped it on the other, shuved some solder through the hole, let it dry, and voila, rebuilt nos cable :D.

[RedRider_AK]

Nice. At least, until it magically pops off in the middle of a mud pit LMAO.

[Havoxx]

nah, I'm a pretty good solderer or however that's spelled :D, I once soldered a fin on an RC boat, and it worked out until it slammed into the floor :D.

It should last though, brass adheres to solder pretty well.

[RedRider_AK]

All right man, good to see that you've got confidence in your abilities. Good luck with the project!

[super90]

Solder works for a while, but it will break after use. I did it a couple times on trying to revive a cable. The carb spring in it was too stiff so i went to the hardware store and bought a weaker spring to put it and it lasted. Just get a new cable, if it breaks off it will get sucked into the engine and possibly mess up something.

[Havoxx]

Any of you know if there is a way to test the CDI?

[Havoxx]

So, good news and bad news :D, good news is, the thing turns perfectly, unfortunately, a dreaded problem, no freakin spark, now, according to the manual, the coil should be fine, so, besides the CDI box, what else can I check?

Also, if anyone has this bike, and has redone the wiring, does it matter where the two yellows wires from that uh, exciter I believe? They are both the same, so I can't figure it makes a difference.

oh, and how in the world do you mount the rack on there? I can figure where to hook the two front parts on, but the back will just hang in the air.

[Havoxx]

See now it's being mean, has great spark, and TRIES to turn over, but it's flooding, I've never dealt with a honda carb before, so I'm not sure what to look for. The compression is at 85 PSI, not sure if that's good or not for this specific bike.

[super90]

85 is low. Probably needs a rebuild, and its probably not flooding, the plugs probably getting saturated in oil.

[Havoxx]

85 is low. Probably needs a rebuild, and its probably not flooding, the plugs probably getting saturated in oil.

Naw, plugs clean when I check it, it's shooting gas out through the airbox though, would the jets matter in this situation? I have a 100 jet on there, it came with the kit for the carb, that's off a 250 big red, so it may be completely wrong lol.

Buying the gasket/piston rings tomorrow anyway, gonna paint the engine red :D, any of ya might know what the honda color is?

[super90]

It is probably running really rich. The big red carb might be too big for the sx motor, but I could be wrong since I used a 28mm carb on a 200 engine before. But 85 compression is pretty low, my old 200x engine had 175 psi I believe last time I checked it.

[thefox]

Were you holding the throttle open when you did the compression check?

[Havoxx]

Were you holding the throttle open when you did the compression check?

Yea, I did, I'll just do a complete rebuild this weekend, it has spark, and it tries to fire, so compression is most likely the only thing holding it back. Good thing is I've only wasted $20 or so getting another CDI, and that did help the spark, though it could've been that I cleaned the stator :P.

Well, I'll let ya know over the weekend, I'm most likely just gonna do a complete rebuild of it, and hope for the best, timings the same as my suzuki from what I've read, line up the piston at TDC and line the marks up on the cam right?

Least the engine seems easier to remove than the suzuki one, seeing as the suzuki actually loses half the frame when you take the engine out :D.

[Havoxx]

Man I went in to M.A.M with $100, came out with 40c, prices are abusive, a gasket set, a manual, and a piston ring set, I could almost cry :D.

Any one know if it's possible to do a top-end rebuild while on the frame, one screw won't come out, even with a 1/2 drive impact, pos seems rusted well.

[Havoxx]

Never-mind, got the engine out, slid out really easy once that last bolt gave in :D.

Out of curiosity, what kind of brakes is this damn thing supposed to have? Drum, disk? Theres so many different versions it's too damn confusing.

[RedRider_AK]

It was "shooting gas out the airbox"? Sounds like valves are out of time, or the intake one is bent or something.

[Havoxx]

nah, it had too much gas in the carb, like, the carb didn't ever stop filling, and it just kept pumping out whatever it had, either way, engines out now, we'll see what's up :D.

[Havoxx]

Yea, so after the uh, break-down, it uh, well, it's good and bad, the head and cylinder were disgusting, the valves couldn't even seat(lack of compression there) due to the rust and corrosion, HOWEVER, the incredibly good news is, either A. Honda is really good at making heads, or B. The valves took the pitting of the rust, after a little bit of cleaning, the head came out spotless. so, monday, they all get washed and sandblasted, and repainted, tuesday, soon as M.A.M opens, it gets new valves, heres the current ones... I haven't checked them under the micrometer, but the face is pitted, I know it's not important, but I ain't putting that ugly ass *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* back in there after all the work I'm doing :D.

I'd rather have something nice and I know will last than something that has pits in it :P. Heres a pic of the valves and the piston, that had almost no carbon on it surprisingly, a little bit of a cleaning with the hand washer and it was nice n clean :D.
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/5319260664.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic/7727600)http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/5319251286.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic/7727556)
Heres the current state of the rear fender, after a lot of scraping :D fronts are fine thank god lol.
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/5312411981.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic/7725791)

[Havoxx]

So, more news, compression is now at 170, it still doesn't start, so I'm sort of thinking it has something to do with the spark again, the book is utterly useless for checking timing, though according to it the cam is perfectly aligned.

I'm not giving up, but it's hard to keep at it, it's not even trying, just keeps getting my hopes down ya know. I'm headin to my buddies house tomorrow, getting the little switches off one of his old 250sx's since it has the choke built in, and getting a muffler as well, seeing as mine got destroyed.

Better news is, now it needs the full 200 Amp engine starting to turn quickly, 40 amp it'll turn, but it gets stuck on the compression in the beginning.

No more gas shooting out of the intake, so I hope that's ok.

[firehart]

When I was having spark issues with my 200x, I just bought another CDI module off of E-bay. I was lucky, it fixed the problem.

[Havoxx]

When I was having spark issues with my 200x, I just bought another CDI module off of E-bay. I was lucky, it fixed the problem.

Yea, that fixed mine as well, though I'm not sure that was my problem, I think my stator wires were just incredibly dirty.

[Havoxx]

So I bet some of you were saying, wow this guy hasn't posted, he must've given up, WRONG!!!! I just got my other motor in the mail, off an 86 200SX, and IT RUNS!!! After all the failure, it cost me $460 but I think it was well worth it, there's nothing like seeing it run, even if I didn't fix the motor :D.

[cody2]

Yea, they're actually GoodYears, which I had no idea made ATV tires(if'n they still do). But they are actually really great, even sitting for what looks to be 5-10 years, they still held air, no leaks, and they're not too rotted, though they do have mold on them lol.

I tried to get the starter to turn before I ripped out the wiring, now I thought it was the battery, but as it turns out, the key had a busted lead, so it would always be off :D, It's all nice n soldered now though, and I've already starter sanding/painting some of the stuff I ripped off.

The frame will get sandblasted, as will the springs, A-Arms and swinger, the tank will be cleaned in the parts cleaner and then repainted :D, it's not too rusty inside thankfully, due to the owner using some anti-rust agent in it.

I was curious about the petcock system, if it's busted, can I just put any old valve on it, or am I going to have to buy the petcock?

Oh yea, and the nice and bead-machined rack will be getting here in a little while soon as my dad gets home, so I'll post some pics of it ;).

Yeah as far as i know goodyear is still making tires, i had a 2002 polaris sportsman 400 which i bought used and it came with goodyear tires, i bought this machine in 2003.

[Havoxx]

Yeah as far as i know goodyear is still making tires, i had a 2002 polaris sportsman 400 which i bought used and it came with goodyear tires, i bought this machine in 2003.

Aye, they even have that same exact tire model, so apparently they're good :D, those tires were sitting in dirt, rain, mud, for 5-6 years, and they still hold air perfectly lol.

[Havoxx]

You know, I wasted $1042 on the bike, $200 for it, so $1242, and my parents, well my mother, thinks it's a waste, but seeing all my hard work, my blood, sweat, not tears cuz I don't cry :D start, on the first damn pull, makes all that money well worth it, oh, and it moves, I didn't accelerate too much, but it feels like it'll pick my 280pnd ass up with a bit of acceleration in first.

Well enough though, it has that huge sprocket :D. As for the plastics, still doesn't have any, and if I can't get em by june 12, it's going on the trip without em :D.

Thanks for all you're guys help, I really appreciate all the advice I got from ya :).

Also, not sure if it's because it has no battery, but the lights dim when you accelerate, is that normal without a battery? I figured the rectifier was dropping the voltage to not overvolt the lights.

[scooterroo]

the battery is basically to start the thing. the lights run off the lighting coil on the stator, so yes it is typical for it to dim some when idling, and get brighter as you rev it up some. if the battery was running the lights it would die out eventually seeing is how they dont have a generator / alternator on them to recharge the battery when running.

[hondahaulic]

Also, not sure if it's because it has no battery, but the lights dim when you accelerate, is that normal without a battery? I figured the rectifier was dropping the voltage to not overvolt the lights.

Yes, that is normal. The lights do run off of the battery, and the battery is charged by the lighting coil. The regulator/rectifier protects the battery from getting too much voltage. With no help from a battery, the regulator/rectifier doesn't put out enough juice to run the lights at full power. My 200es with a dead battery is the same way, the headlight is actually the brightest at idle speed.

[SYKO]

hey havox I got a rear fender in decent shape, I will trade you if you have a good extra exhaust system and some extra sprokets.

[Havoxx]

hey havox I got a rear fender in decent shape, I will trade you if you have a good extra exhaust system and some extra sprokets.

Heh, I actually need the stock sprockets as well, that huge one has torque, but god the bike is slow lol, it climbs up my front steps though :D.

[cody2]

Aye, they even have that same exact tire model, so apparently they're good :D, those tires were sitting in dirt, rain, mud, for 5-6 years, and they still hold air perfectly lol.

Yeah, the goodyears are good from any driving i had, they wern't a fantastic mud tire, but they were good on the trails definatly and very tough, like freakishly tough, i drove over everything where my stock sportsman tires on my new sportsman busted in the places i drove with the old ones, actually i busted a set of stock kfx tires there too.

[Havoxx]

Well, on it's first run out it did fantastic I'd say, no smoke, no problems, the only thing that I noticed, is that the transmission gets incredibly hot, and I can figure, since this was honda's first sport bike, it has a faster gearing, and with that excessively huge sprocket it's causing too much strain. the gas cap did get gas in it and clog, so it had vapor lock but it turns on almost instantly, it's a great bike.


On another note, I would want to get black maiers for it, but I've never seen them, so I'd have to find a picture of one, see how it looks :D.

[sgp56]

post some pics of the finished product

[honda_atc200es]

i don't mean to hijack, so if this is innapropriate ill move it, but i have an 86 200sx (with an 87 motor) and im not getting spark, last year it was hit or miss, this year i got nothing. what should i replace first, the coil, or the cdi?