RM500/LT500R Quad Racer Motor Debate Revisited...

[Jeb]

An article to prove with a doubt what motor it is....or does it just fuel the heated Darius/MRATC debate :shock: ???? Enquiring minds want to know!

Read Below & Stay Tuned! :D :P

http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=8550

[Wickedfinger]

Thats good stuff Jeb.

[MR ATC]

Darious,Tim sr., 200 basket, is that enough proof for you guys or am I still losing the debate and wrong... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

i seem to remember also stating the LT/RM 500 was weak compared to the other 500's of Honda and Kawasaki so lets compare.

Honda 1986 CR 500R................ 60hp
Kawasaki 2002 KX 500.............. 58hp
Suzuki RM/LT 500..................... 50hp

oh lets not forget i said basically a detuned RM 500 the LT use's a counter balencer to smooth out the vibration and hit but dose rob power so lets estimate 5 hp. thats down to 45 hp in a aprox 450lb chassie. compared to a Honda ATC 250R with almost 40hp in a aprox. 320lb chassie. brings them a little close whould'nt you say.

I have spoken

[TimSr]

LOL, MrATC, You already lost the debate, man!!! You might want to thank Jeb for winning it, (with a lot less talking), but you cant take credit for that! YOU didnt win this debate. he did!

Now while it says it was "built around an all new big bore RM motor" which doesnt exactly mean it was a copy of an exisiting RM motor, but Ill give credit, and the edge in this debate to Jeb, for producing evidence.

[MR ATC]

Tim regarless of were the proof came from (thanks jeb) my argument was still proven right and darious wrong. if were the proof came from decided the winner then 3 & 4 wheel action really provided the proof so they actually won if you want to play those rules :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: come on Tim just once admit i was right ;) ;) ;) (again) 8) 8) 8)

[ATC crazy]

Over 100mph... :D Thats BS

[Kilborg]

I dont know what the debate is, but im gonna give a little view on the Rm500 since a good freind i grew up with had one for a summer.

it was a decent bike power wise..I think my dads cr480 had a bit more since it was the fastest big bore around short of the newer 500's and the maicos, but it could beat my old cr450 real easy (we all had open class bikes that summer). I cant really seem to recall how it ran, but it had a good midrange pull. The exhaust was a custom made job by a guy that specialized in snowmobiles locally, and it had a few various performance oriented parts on it too.

It handled pretty good, but could not corner as good as a hond. I dont remember it having any nasty things like bad headshake with it or anything, but I never got to ride it to its fullest in too many conditions. It was certainely comparable to the other bikes we were running then (we were all poor guys running older beaters), but the 480 we had i think handled a bit better overall but with the typical honda headshake of the time. My cr450 was a pile of trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro in comparison (in fact, the only thing it was good for was flat out runs against lesser displacement bikes where the insanely spaced 4 speed wasnt as much of a factor...it was a 450 with about the hit of a 125 and a horribly narrow powerband to boot.

I didnt read the article all the way since im kinda loopy on pain pills (got a bunch of stitches in my face from my dog biting me when we were wrasslin around), but I always thought the quadracer 500 was just a deriviative of the rm500. The 500 had pretty good power but the cases were typical suzuki quality of the time..cheezy as all hell. The cases are more or less porous, the mains will wear the outer section enough to the point where they spin freely with the crank...very uncool. With some needed attention they did alright, but they just cut too many corners on the 500. It was fun to ride because it was a big tank of a quad with a good tractable go anytime powerplant and it handled nice. Anyone I ever knew eventually ran into serious problems due to the low overall quality of the cases and the lame airbox, but machine is more or less acceptable otherwise.

[MR ATC]

Blaze... the debate was should someone trade a 250R for a Quad 500. my position was that the 500 quad was just a rm500 motor detuned for the quad and even as a rm 500 was the weakest of the big two stroke 500's...i was told i was wrong but we now know the truth right Darious,Tim,Basket... :D :D :D

[TimSr]

I never said you were right or wrong. I said you lost the debate. That was the whole point of my posts. You were so intent on being "right" and everybody else being "wrong" that whether or not you could pursuade anybody else to your point of view by showing evidence to back your viewpoint seemed unimportant. I happened to agree with your viewpoint of the R being superior, and was impartial as to whether or not the LT was based on the RM. Darius made the best case for and you still lost the debate. You did not pursuade anybody of anything. Now you want to chime and and say "I was right, I was right" (have you EVER been wrong?) but that whether or not you were right, never was my point. You failed to make a convincing argument that you were right, so you lost the debate. No why dont YOU admit, I am right (again), and thank Jeb for making the case you should have made, and you can also thank 3&4 Wheel Action for "being" the evidence but not for presenting any. They were not debating anything to win or lose.

[Bill X_R]

I love it when you two butt heads!!!!!


MORE MORE MORE!!!


:clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap

:Beerchug :Beerchug :Beerchug

:bounce :bounce :bounce :bounce

[Wickedfinger]

According to my stats LT500R's had 54HP, 1989 TRX250R had 38 ..... but I want NOTHING to do with this argument ..... You two are doing just fine .... lol

[MR ATC]

Tim you should run for office... you remind me of Clinton your wrong and you know it but you use big words and fancy writing to try and make yourself look good. you and Clinton are experts at disquising the truth. how you come to the conclusion that while my statements were true and accurate and Darious was false and misleading (how the evidence came too is not and never was the issue) but he still won the argument is way beyond my simple comprehension of logic.

acording to your logic even though Darious was wrong he still won...hmmm why because he proved nothing other then the lt500 and 84 rm 500 were differant that was weak and an assuption.

i never said i could prove there was a newer rm 500 or lt500 motor based on a newer rm i only stated i knew from personal knowlege that it existed. therefore the burdon was not on me since i never siad i would prove it. Darious said he could prove it was NOT and the only thing he proved was he was WRONG.

therefore in laymens therm Tim HOW IN THE HE!! do you come up with me being wrong :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

(p.s. no harm intended all in good fun)

[Ivan T]

Handbags at dawn!

[TimSr]

therefore in laymens therm Tim HOW IN THE HE!! do you come up with me being wrong :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

(p.s. no harm intended all in good fun)

I love yankin' your chain! Guys with big egos are easy targets!


Where, in any of my posts in this thread, did I say you were wrong? I said you never made a convincing case, and therefore lost the debate.

When a guy who is charged with a serious crime walks, it doesnt mean he is innocent. It simply means the state never made a convincing case of his guilt.

Also, even guys who are totally wrong win debates all the time against people who may be right. If you dont believe me, watch CSPAN! Since "perception" is what people view as the "truth", you can be right til the cows come home, but if you cant pursuade others by making the case in the debate that your views are correct, you still lose. Examples: The election and relection of Bill Clinton, the near election of Al Gore, 40 years of a democratic congress, and Al Sharpton being taken seriously!

[Jeb]

Amen TimSR! Your examples were excellent! :-D

[MR ATC]

beam me up scotty they still believe image is everything...

[Jeb]

MrATC, not sure what you meant by that...

I'm not in the "Who won/Who lost" this RM500 engine debate argument. I liked TimSr's example of the Democrats especially the addition of Al Sharpton. It was classic!

As for the engine, do I believe your were right.... Yes! Even before I looked up the article I was with you that it was an RM500 motor UPDATED for use in a Quad Chassis. And just because it was never a production US Liquid Cooled RM500 motorcycle doesn't mean it was not based heavily on the RM engine.

But I also believe Darius made good points after-all, it was an all new engine to the US Market.

You could make the same argument about the Tecate4 motor. Different, Yes. But remove all the bells and whistles for the Quad and it's still a KX250 based motor.

:-D

[MR ATC]

nothing on you Jeb i just find it amazing people are more concerned with what appears right vs. what is right.

By the way Tim Sr. you say i "lost" the debate still havn't figured that one out since i'm right and there was no time limit as to when (or how) the proof was provided. i wonder if not only dose your TRI-Z have Tecate envy with all the gayglow (oops i mean day glow) green on it. But you yourself Have MR ATC envy ;) ;) ;)

Darious where ya been buddy have not heard from you on all this. still pulling your foot out of your mouth... :D :D :D ...jk

[TimSr]

C'Mon DX, your supposedly new to this board, and all you came here to do is spew anger and hatred? This is a spirited debate, all done in fun. Feel free to chime in with your own opinion, but theres no need to be mean or get nasty about it!

[RacerRichie]

Blaze... the debate was should someone trade a 250R for a Quad 500. my position was that the 500 quad was just a rm500 motor detuned for the quad and even as a rm 500 was the weakest of the big two stroke 500's...i was told i was wrong but we now know the truth right Darious,Tim,Basket... :D :D :D

Trade a 250R for an LT500R......are you crazy?

I would take a mint 86 ATC250R over a mint 1990 LT500R any day. Much more USEABLE power.

The 500 is sweet but the 250 revs real nice! When it comes down to it...its the rider.
:rolleyes:

[Kilborg]

The 250r is a good bike, But in terms of usable power the quadracer 500 certainley has it beat. The powerband is wider, stronger, and comes on smoother.

[Wickedfinger]

....I nixed DX's nonsense - everything was civil untill he crossed the line. By the way, I can see by your IP addy, you're not "new" to the board......