breaking in process

[Ryan.]

so ya i got my blaster all together, and now i need to break it in... so whats the best way to do this and how much oil should i run?:wondering :wondering :wondering :confused: :confused: :confused: :acr

[lndy650]

make sure to break it in with non-synthetic oil synthetic oil acually prevents engines from breaking in. after about 3 tanks switch to synthetic. dont overrev the engine or rev it too fast. dont listen to the people that say beat the hell out of it thats not the way to go....

[Ryan.]

make sure to break it in with non-synthetic oil synthetic oil acually prevents engines from breaking in. after about 3 tanks switch to synthetic. dont overrev the engine or rev it too fast. dont listen to the people that say beat the hell out of it thats not the way to go....

i was gonna use blue marble, but i think thats synthetic :Bounce

[smokinwrench]

I would also run blue marble that is my 2 stroke mix of choice. I would do 2-3 heat ups and check for leaks. Then ride it nicely for 1 hour never keeping the thorttle at one speed for very long. Then I would ride the hell out of it, checking oil and for leaks often. The old days of running a motor nicely for 10-15 hours are long gone. Bore/hone jobs are much finer these days and it is no longer needed.

[lndy650]

i wrote an article about 2 stroke engine proper break in heres a line from it for ya smokinwrench....

Generally people thing that pistons wear into shape in thier first hours of running...WRONG! you can fit pistons with extreme precision and they still need a lenghy break in period

i will attach my artice for everyone to read if they would like

[300rman]

well, i let her warm up once, cool off. then i get on it and ride it. ill take it easy, varying the throttle alot, working the motor a little bit here or there. then after about....15 minutes, i will start to break into higher RPM's, and before i know it, im ripping around. no problems yet.

[lndy650]

please take the time to read this this is proven info and will help you in your break in process

THE PROPER WAY TO BREAK IN A 2 STROKE ENGINE
AND THE UNDERSTANDING OF CORRECT PISTON CLEARANCE


Piston seizure is something that often happens in a 2 stroke engine...There are some people that believe that piston siezure should be treated like chicken pox, new or freshly rebuilt engines should be purposly siezed so it is less likely to happen in the future.(these are the people that say to beat the hell out of it to break it in). Now there is the theory that if a 2 stroke is rebuilt with a large piston to cylinder wall clearance it wont sieze, this is why some believe to beat on the fresh engine because premature piston fitment gives a larger clearance...dyno results proved that a 2 stroke engine with 33bhp running at .002 piston clearance ran great and was dependable. they changed that clearance to .006 and the engine dropped 18% (27bhp) and suffered an almost immediate piston seizure. Now a clearance of .004 may not cause a seizure but will most certianly cause a power loss.
Now I bet you are wondering why a tighter fitting piston would have more power and a lesser tendency to sieze even though it has more drag...Here is your answer- Combustion chambers are normally around 3500 degrees, way above the melting point of aluminum piston alloys and the reason pistons dont melt is because they are able to transfer that heat to the cylinder walls and the tighter the clearance the better they can transfer heat. Also the tighter the clearance the better ring seal which is less hot air leaking passed the rings and to the piston skirts. If hot air leaks past the rings and heats the bottom of the piston it then heats and dilutes the fuel charge. Both the heat and the diluting causes a reduction in power.

Generally people think that pistons wear into shape in thier first hours of running...WRONG! you can fit pistons with extreme precision and they still need a lenghy break in period. New pistons have a lot of locked in stresses and will try to distort severly when they are first heated.If you give the piston enough break in time these stresses will be relieved without the piston changing the shape it is supposed to have but if you force the piston to take too much heat too soon the end result will be a kind of square or trianglular shaped piston which is obviously a bad thing. When a break in process is forced too fast the end result is a deformed sloppy fitting piston. Ever remove a piston and the pin dosent slide easily??? Thats piston distortion from prematurly breaking in an engine. How about seeing burn marks below the rings and on the piston skirts on only certian sides/parts of the piston? Yep you guessed it another sign of premature heating and permenant piston distortion...The rings can not handle making a gas tight seal by themself they need a tight fitted piston to help so when the piston is distorted and out of shape and theres gases leaking down the skirts so it warms the charge like earlier mentioned and causes a loss in power. If enough gases are leaking past the rings a piston siezure will occur. why? Because the area the gases are leaking past become so hot the oil boils and becomes sticky(gums/varnishes) therefor no longer lubricating and we all know a non lubricated engine dosent take long to sieze...


What oil to use during break in?

Using a synthetic oil while breaking in an engine can give the rings so much cushion that the hone marks dont do what they were ment to do.. Seat the rings.
If your engine never breaks in then it is not performing as well as if it was broke in properly with a mineral based oil. Mineral based oil will allow some wear and allow the piston and rings to break in and seat with the cylinder walls. It was proven that motorcycle racers that used synthetic oils to break in thier engine and continued to use synthetic oils ran at less rpm's and made less power than racers that broke thier engine in with a mineral oil and switched to synthetic when the engine was properly broke in.

thats all for now...

[lndy650]

so... understanding that going easy for a little while and then treating it like usuall may not cause a seizure but will almost certianly cause a power decrease

[smokinwrench]

Saying as I have been overhauling engines 15 years as a living and never had one blow up, I'll keep doing it my way. Do I need to post an article on the internet so that my way is believed by thousands of people?

[lndy650]

this is not only my way its the way of Gordon Jenning's (wrote the 2 stroke tuners handbook) and also Alexander Graham Bell who wrote many books and both are engine tuning experts. I know all of their books and my article is just what I learned from them not something i made up. I posted this on the internet so more people know how to properly treat a 2 stroke

[OldSchoolin86]

An hour is the most you need to break in motor and that's if it's a 4 stroke with a new cam. For a 2-stroke you can start the beating after about 30 min. I never switched to a non synthetic mix to break in a 2-stroke and don't think it's necessary either. Don't change your mix ratio or what you mix. Take it easy the first 30 minutes using all different RPMs being careful not to wind it out or make it lug. I've built many of engines....... over many of years........ for many of people and never had a problem breaking them in this way.

[ccdhowell]

I like to heat cycle my engines 4 to 6 times with complete cool down and retorque of cylinder and head. I used to run mineral oil premix, but honestly I can't find a high quality 100% mineral premix oil anymore, so I just run my same synthetic oil to break it in. I normally mix much richer premix than most do, 28:1, I think this helps seal the rings better.

[lndy650]

ive been rebuilding my own engine for years also(rebuilt my 200x when i was 8) but i think ill stick with the two smartest 2 stroke tuners in the world they have more time tuning engines than any 100 people. and what i said dosent nessisarily mean your engine will blow up but i gaurntee your engine is making less power and its leaking past the rings if you think its broke after 30 minutes
but whatever blows your skirt up:crazy:

[lndy650]

I like to heat cycle my engines 4 to 6 times with complete cool down and retorque of cylinder and head. I used to run mineral oil premix, but honestly I can't find a high quality 100% mineral premix oil anymore, so I just run my same synthetic oil to break it in. I normally mix much richer premix than most do, 28:1, I think this helps seal the rings better.

i agree with running the engine in heat cycles thats what manufacturers advise to do

[RedRider_AK]

and also Alexander Graham Bell who wrote many books and both are engine tuning experts.

Didn't he also invent the telephone?

[Dirtcrasher]

Thats a good article. I always break them in the same way and it works for me, but I will avoid synthetics. It CAN'T hurt to use regular oil during the break in and it seems like they know something I don't, thanks for the article...

[OldSchoolin86]

but i gaurntee your engine is making less power and its leaking past the rings if you think its broke after 30 minutes
but whatever blows your skirt up:crazy:I guarantee that if that's how you feel then you need to get your hands off the books and get into more engines. I agree that they aren't broke-in in 30 minutes but they are 100% ready to be ridden hard. I promise you will never see a performance difference or longevity difference in your motors or mine. This is a process that needs to be addressed with care but those two dudes are just patting themselves on the back thinking they working on the human brain.


but I will avoid synthetics. It CAN'T hurt to use regular oil during the break in It doesn't hurt at all and I do that for 4 strokes but you don't need to switch for a 2-stroke.

[lndy650]

yep he did

[SpeedBump]

Me, I heat cycle 2 tiimes, then ride (nice easy pace, up and down in RPMs) for 30-45 minutes, park it. Let it cool down, double check for leaks and loose bolts. After that...ride it like I would normally. I usually change a piston/rings each spring and in the last 3 T4s I have owned, only ever had one seize. It was totally my fault in that instance. Held it WOT for way too long up a backroad. Didn't seize due to jetting, but flatout overheating. Smeared and stuck the top ring. Still ran, but after getting it home, tore it down, did a little minor filing on the top ring groove, gave the piston a 1500grit wipe down and tossed it back together. I drag raced and trailed that topend the whole year. Ran great, held over 180psi and never had an issue with it. When the spring rebuild came around, the piston and bore looked nearly like the day I reinstalled it. I never get blowby, never get irregular piston wear. There is alot of opinions on how to break in an engine, but I perfer the hard and fast method. Just seems to make more sense to me. The rings use gas pressure to keep them sealed in the bore, and to me, if you aren't running the engine hard, you never build enough pressure to seat the rings.

[300rman]

so...everybody does it a different way.....cant we settle on a heat cycle to make sure its together properly, then take it easy until you feel like whomping on it, then just go for it?


can we at least ALL agree that you shouldnt start her up and pin it on the first startup?????

[Trimotomike]

just about 3 weeks ago a guy i know had his 2003 blaster rebuilt , he brought it over to another buddy of mines track to ride it (the day he got it out of the shop) he ran it nice for about 2 hrs off and on let it cool down and then started beating on it . i said hey man you shouldnt be so hard on a new engine , he said ahh its already broken in ive been running it all day , i said ok guy have fun with that , not twenty minutes after i warned him the piston shattered . decided to rebuild again took my advice and it still runs . better safe then sorry my opinion .

[OldSchoolin86]

not twenty minutes after i warned him the piston shattered . His piston shattering had nothing to do with break-in.


cant we settle on a heat cycle to make sure its together properly
lol, nope.

[Ryan.]

His piston shattering had nothing to do with break-in.


lol, nope.

ya, shattering that piston had nothing to do with it....

[OldSchoolin86]

ya, shattering that piston had nothing to do with it....You're basically cutting in surfaces. If his piston truly shattered then something else was going on.

[lndy650]

how do you figure it had nothing to do with break in??? if he overheated his piston before it was broke in then there was probly too much clearance and thats why it shattered.
i think everyone can understand that if a new piston is heated too quickly it dosent form right and will fit sloppy. im sure you guys understand that 99% of the time piston shattering occurs from to much clearance

[lndy650]

I guarantee that if that's how you feel then you need to get your hands off the books and get into more engines.
ive had my hands in engines more times than your momma has wiped your butt.:lol: as for power loss has anyone besides me have dyno results from easy mineral break in to hard break in and everything in between??? i race watercross and need to know every little advantage there is believe me i know what im talking about. i still have a box of about 100 pistons from when i was young and stupid and thought to run it easy for 20 minutes and then get on it...box full of mistakes

[lndy650]

Thats a good article. I always break them in the same way and it works for me, but I will avoid synthetics. It CAN'T hurt to use regular oil during the break in and it seems like they know something I don't, thanks for the article...

thanks for the compliment:)

[Trimotomike]

the piston shattering had nothing to do with improper breakin just like george bush has nothing to do with the price of oil:crazy: :crazy:

[OldSchoolin86]

Wow, you guys are stubborn. You aren't going to wear a cylinder out of clearance during break-in even if you beat on it the second you start it. That dude had other issues then his break in procedure. I mean if you can't see that then common sense is wasting it's time around here.

Indy, I like your style and conviction and you may be right about my momma but I promise your momma has lubed my ball bearings more times then you've touched an engine.


the piston shattering had nothing to do with improper breakin just like george bush has nothing to do with the price of oil:crazy: :crazy:
Trimoto, you do realize that we have some of the lowest fuel prices in the world don't you???

[lndy650]

im not saying its gonna wear the cylinder out of clearance im saying it deforms the piston causing the large clearance

[300rman]

Trimoto, you do realize that we have some of the lowest fuel prices in the world don't you???

reguardless of our lowest fuel prices, the oil company is making record billions.......if they were selling it based on production cost, they would make the same amount per gallon as they did 5 or 10 years ago.

and NO i dont believe that the fuel consumption has tripled in 5 years, and that is where they are making their money......their making their money by raping us, notby selling more than ever before.

hell, they sell less than before. everyone i know drives less and carpools more for the last few years due to the prices...which equals sales DROP.

[OldSchoolin86]

hell, they sell less than before. everyone i know drives less and carpools more for the last few years due to the prices...which equals sales DROP.Do you really believe Americans use less fuel now then before..............:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Trimotomike]

no kidding saying we have the lowest prices in the world isnt saying anything to me . i have no choice but to burn fuel in my line of work and lots of it so its killin me ...

[lndy650]

My engine burns massive amounts of fuel and oil:naughty: my pockets are empty but its worth it!!

[The Goat]

i particularly love these threads where people come out and belittle "the big bad oil men" who are obviously out to get you.

the point of a business...is to make money. You can make yourself feel better by saying that you provide a valued service or needed product...but for your business to succeed, you have to make a profit. You have to make that profit to live, and to sink into research and development, and/or change things that allow you to provide your service better or faster.

Now...the oil companies...are companies. They don't take something out of the ground, that is easily obtained by all, and sell it to you for a jacked up price. No, they remove that natural resource, and they refine it, and turn it into something that you CAN actually use. Their goals as a company, are to make a profit and maintain their company.

Your considerations, and your livelihood is thankfully irrelevant to them.


Now that I have ranted...I will say that whenever I broke in an engine in the past, I would put some 20w50 in it...and I'd drive it for a few hours...avoiding pegging it out...or sustaining any rpms. Then, I'd simply ride it for a week or so, change the oil, and then I'd never think about break in procedure again.

My yamaha beartracker at 5 years old could be held at WOT for a 20 minutes with no fear or damage. I did it on more than one occasion when traveling a few miles alone. I sold that bike to a hunter of ours, and the entire rearend had to be replaced about a year ago (guys and idiot and didn't understand the reverse lever). However, one thing did not have to be replaced...anything in that top end. I beat the snot out of it, and it's still running around reliable as all hell.

I hydrolocked it 3 times...and I ran it with an airbox half full of water and a bottom end mix of half oil and half water. IT DID NOT DIE!

so tell me...did my break in procedure work...or not?

[Trimotomike]

this is a silly just because a way of doing something works a few times dosent means its the correct way .
for instense back in high school i had this girlfriend we did all kinds of crazy things 24/7 things that makes getting water in your air box or wot for 20 mins seem pretty petty .she never used birth control and i never got her pregnant . but would i tell other people to dable like that or even do it again myself for that matter? no because i was young and stupid and very very lucky .