View Full Version : I need HOME AC unit help !!
I got a large in home RHEEMS unit that that evaporator is rusting out (started leaking now) I want to know what my options are as for repair the cost and possibly upgrade to a better evaporator.... Also the drain pan is built in to the evaporator so I cant just replace it... I did however kinda rais up one side so it would drain faster so it would slow the leak some.. I will post a pic of the unit in a few minutes.. its been in the house since 1991.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e306/southgacustoms/crap/100_9552.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e306/southgacustoms/crap/100_9553.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e306/southgacustoms/crap/100_9555.jpg
200x Basket
09-01-2008, 06:12 PM
that really sucks. I would have a couple repair men look at it but if that unit is from 1991 it will be cheaper to replace the unit.
I had a heat pump and the directional valve went out. it was cheaper to buy a new unit :(
well I dont think its neccesarry to replace the whole unit, just the evaporator is starting to corrode bad and the condensation pan is rusting out. I wil post pics in just a min.
Usaully A/C's Lose there seer drastically after 8 years. There use to be a graph floating around somewhere that said after 12-14 years it is costing you more to run than replacing it.
By the looks of it you are getting way more condensate then you should.
Are you loosing freon?
If so, have you determined the location of the leak?
Is it freezing up?
How clogged are the coils?
Usaully this happens when you are having excess condensate and your primary drain has clogged. This allows the water to run into the secondary drain which causes rust city. If you have no freon leaking anywhere i would recharge it, Clean the coils, unstop the primary drain and flush bleach down the line. then use some anti corrosion method to control it. If it does have a leak you can always braze it up if it isnt completly rotted out. Of course if it was me i would replace it. Also keep an eye on your electric bill. At my last house my electric was running abou $380 a month. A tree fell on my outside unit so i decided to replace the whole thing. My bill dropped to about $160 a month in 100 degree temps. With in a year it paid for itself. My new house has all the high effenciency stuff and i am getting scary low electrical bills.
Dirtcrasher
09-02-2008, 01:32 PM
If it is otherwise working well, can you get a new pan in there? Believe me, I have seen much worse!!
You can probably get an a coil and new pan that will work for you, someone will have to pump down the system and evacuate it before it can restarted and charged up properly.
Yep, it's old, nope - it's not efficient but do you want to dump thusands into it at this point? Is it sized right? is the return and supply large enough? Those are all things that Mr expensive replacement guy is gonna deal with.
I find duct to be undersized quite often....
I just did my 14SEER by myself (took 9 months) and my cost for metal and equipment was about 3000$. I put a 2.5 ton blow in the attic with spiral pipe, mostly all hardpiped and I wrapped it with 2 layers of 2" R6 insulation, taking the vapor barrier off of the 1st later......
Metal is through the roof, as is copper and everything else. I also did all the electrical service work too which costs another 1000$
Is that an upflow unit with the filter on the bottom? and the return run underneath the house somewhere? I thought you guys all had slab houses though.......
My neighbor moved to NC and paid 9000$ for a system installed (heat too though....) and he said it was the best money could buy - A Janitrol :lol: :lol: I used all Carrier equipment.
I have had good luck with Goodman, which i think is the same thing as Janitrol.
the house is not a slab house, its elavated about 2 ft from the ground, the duct work is over head in the attic, everything was built over kill by my dad, im not wasting any energy, I keep the house at 75deg and my highest bill was $143 my house is HUGE! 3 20x20 bedrooms 2 full bathrooms, 1 straight bath a huge hallway a giagantic kitch/dinning room 2 huge living rooms a utility room and TONS of windows. SO I think my ac is running well just has a few problems.. as far as upgrading what can be done I dont think its neccasary to replace any duct work or fans or anything just mainly the evaporator.
Erics350x
09-02-2008, 07:30 PM
HVAC is a big part of what i do. That unit is gonna give you alot more trouble soon. If you can afford it, replace the whole air handler. If you just want a cheap fix measure the pan and have a local sheet metal shop make you one (cost about $30). I can prolly hook you up with something. What size outside unit do you have? You can tell by the model #
I will have to get back with you on that eric...hey if you come up in oct for the ride I might be able to make your stay worht while if you can hook me up... $$$$$
Erics350x
09-02-2008, 07:37 PM
Get me the model # on that outside unit and the measurements on the evap and i'll see what i can do
give me a few and I will!
ok the outside condensor/fan is
RHEEM IX CLASSIC HIGH EFFICINCY
MODEL NO: RPFB-048JAS
SERIAL NO: 4398M30917307
THE EVAPORATOR IS
MODEL NO: RCPB-C048S
SERIEL NO: M1891
ITS 22 LONG 21 WIDE AND 17 TALL GIVE OR TAKE A FEW
about 3 years ago all duct work was cleaned out, last year the ac was serviced for freon and the coils cleaned but they could be cleaned again, but at less then $150 per month for this monstorous house its still working well right this minute, but I know in the near future it will fail.... Im hoping to make it through this summer thats all.
Erics350x
09-02-2008, 08:14 PM
So you just want to stop the water leak for now? If so, lift the evap enough to find the leak and patch it with JB Weld.
I'll see how much i can get you a coil for in the morning.
well the evap is bolted to the pan.... and its done in such a way I would have to evac the sytem cut the lines remove the evap and pan fix reinstall then recharge the sytem.... I got buckets right now... lol
Erics350x
09-03-2008, 06:08 PM
i need to know the line size. i know for a replacement coil it cost $200 min. , with that being said would you rather just put a pan in it?
no the coil is rotting...replacing the pan wont help if I have to replace the coil soon after plus everything has to be cut and redone just to replace the pan. I have no idea the line size.
DeePa
09-03-2008, 08:06 PM
assscrasher to the rescue!!!!
Erics350x
09-04-2008, 08:23 AM
I was real busy all day yesterday so i'll get that coil price today. Can you measure the line size with a tape or open end standard wrenches so i have a round about idea?
exactly what line am I measuring? the big line going into the evap? or the coil lines on the side of the evap?
Erics350x
09-04-2008, 08:31 AM
There should be two lines going to the evap one small and one large. You may have to pull the black insulation back on the big on to measure it
big line is 1 inch wide and the little is like 5/16 or 3/8? something like that
The Goat
09-04-2008, 01:13 PM
I would think you could do the metal work and wiring easy, you can sauter, wire, and shape the sheet metal
yea well I cant evacuate and recharge the system, I would rather let someone who does this for a living do it... I could also do open heart sugery but im unsure of the outcome, but I know I could do it..
Erics350x
09-04-2008, 06:35 PM
My cost is $388 for a new updated coil or about $750 for a new air handler with 20kw heat strips
tell me what both are, im lost on the air handler, thats got the fan and heating unit?
Dirtcrasher
09-04-2008, 07:50 PM
tell me what both are, im lost on the air handler, thats got the fan and heating unit?
The air handler is the part in your home with the blower motor and heat strip. You guys down south must just have electric heat because you never get the bone chilling cold we do.....
The outside piece is the condensor that consists of a compressor and a condensor fan that draws air across the coil of copper or aluminum and cools the high temperature refrigerent gases to a high temperature liquid and gets it ready to enter the evaporator and metering device :D
COOL thanx DC, im not into home AC so im alittle lost at a few terms of what things are.. but I got the jist of it. I think I may just go with the updated coil instead of the whole shibang... this house cools so well even if I turn it down to 70 in the summer the ac only kicks on a few times a day.
200x Basket
09-04-2008, 08:15 PM
so $400 plus the cost of the install to get the old (outdated) unit going or $750 plus install for a new (cheaper to run) unit?
tapper190
09-04-2008, 08:54 PM
I can get an a-coil for about $200 for a 2 ton coil. Here I thought that the U.S. was always cheeper. Sorry skyolincoln, I think the shipping would put it over the top! ( I'm a sheetmetal worker as well, just industrial and commercial, not residential) Reading this thread, I felt like I was back in trade school :lol:
Tapper (for tintapper :lol:)
Erics350x
09-04-2008, 11:51 PM
I can get an a-coil for about $200 for a 2 ton coil. Here I thought that the U.S. was always cheeper. Sorry skyolincoln, I think the shipping would put it over the top! ( I'm a sheetmetal worker as well, just industrial and commercial, not residential) Reading this thread, I felt like I was back in trade school :lol:
Tapper (for tintapper :lol:)
i can get a 2 ton for about $150 but he needs a 4 ton that will fit in his case.
tapper190
09-05-2008, 05:59 PM
4 tons for a house? The average home around here has 1.5 tons to 2 tons of cooling and that is plenty. We put 4 to 5 ton roof top units for an average size store. You must have to wear a parka in your house! :lol:
Tapper
Erics350x
09-05-2008, 06:49 PM
4 tons for a house? The average home around here has 1.5 tons to 2 tons of cooling and that is plenty. We put 4 to 5 ton roof top units for an average size store. You must have to wear a parka in your house! :lol:
Tapper
2.5 - 4 ton is about the norm down here, you have to consider the climate difference. Age, size, insulation, shade, and many other factors come into play when chosing the right size unit.
Dirtcrasher
09-05-2008, 08:36 PM
4 tons for a house? The average home around here has 1.5 tons to 2 tons of cooling and that is plenty. We put 4 to 5 ton roof top units for an average size store. You must have to wear a parka in your house! :lol:
Tapper
Yep, but everything has to be taken into consideration. Not only what Eric posted but the type of windows, the insulation, whether the unit is in a 150 degree attic or a basement and on and on.
I size units basically at about .75 CFM per sq foot, or about 600 sq feet for every ton or 400 CFM It seems to work fairly well. But, if you use some of the recent sizing programs, they are suggesting 900sq feet per 1 ton of cooling, but to me, thats taking it a bit too much and they are counting on the house being super tight and insulated very very well. I think there making homes too tight as far as I'm concerned...
My home is about 1500 sq feet and I used a 2 ton condensor and a 2.5 ton blow and it's working well without running constantly to keep it cool. Sounds like Alan has a fairly big one level home...
I hate residential, too much work on your knees and in tight and hot spaces. I install mainly commercial and industrial systems myself and 75% of my work is in the malls.
I'm wrapping up a "Bar Louie" in the Foxborough Stadium as we speak, where the New England Patriots play. 2 - 6000CFM units, 1 - 4000CFM unit, 1 - 8000CFM unit, Make up air, a 23 foot cookline hood, 3 exhaust fans with grease duct and an Energy Recovery Ventilating unit that instead of tossing out 400 CFMs of conditioned air through bathroom exhausts, it treats the air and recycles the it back into the return of one of the rooftops. The restaurant itslef is all exposed spiral duct and looks incredible. I had to move allot of stuff around and change sizes so it was a fun project for me......
Best news is next week our company enters Local 17 and I'm praying after all these years of running jobs that I'll be grandfathered in as a Journeyman/foreman. I'll be making some good coin and enough to build some really great wheelers :D should be a big turning point for me in my life!!
Eric, how tough is it dealing with the attic heat down south? I try to get out of the attics by 9AM if we have to do a home. A few guys from school have moved down there and tell me it's terrible.....
tapper190
09-07-2008, 07:57 AM
Dirtface, that's sounds really interesting. I don't think that I've had one job that I havn't had to changes things around because they wouldn't fit. What is the biggest size duct work / spiral pipe you have installed? One factory I had to install an exhaust system (one 15 000 cfm, one 25 000 cfm and two 5 000 cfm) along with m.u.a. so your could open the doors of the building :lol: . The air handling unit stood 20' high outside on a pad, the duct work started out at 8' by 5' and then turned to spiral, at a size of 56" in diameter and in 20' lengths. It hung 30' in the air and the boss was to cheap to rent a small crane, He rented us this huge scissor lift that had a platform size of 6' by 12'. I only had two 2 second year apprentices help me on the first part, then it was only one when the spiral got down to 3' diameter.
Here in Canada we classify the roof top units buy tons of cooling not cfm's. So i guess that your unit's where around the 25 to 30 ton mark.
How long have you been in the trade? Do you have an apprentiship program? It's interesting to hear about how things are done outside of Ontario like installing your house ductwork in the attic instead of in the basement / crawl space.
Tapper
P.S. I hope you got your ac figured out sykolincoln!
The Goat
09-07-2008, 06:14 PM
I won't lie...we have a 4 ton and a 2.5 ton in our house. one central a/c for each side of the house. bill runs about 220 a month during the summer. that's 68 degrees at night...and off during half of the days... even still...I doubt we could get it below 65 in midsummer.
I think it's about time to swap out the inside portion of the 4 ton.
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