200x 250r Trike Voltage AC or DC? Answered here finally

[roger86200x]

FACT: 250R and 200X put out AC voltage.

I have read so many people argue about whether trikes run on AC or DC power for the lights, etc.

I was sick of trying to see who was right... so I went out with my volt meter today and checked.

I found that on BOTH the 250R and the 200X the voltage is AC for sure.

My 250R idles low and was putting out 8-10 Volts AC and the 200X was putting out 10-11 Volts AC at Idle.

When I revved up the motor I got 12 Volts plus.

Same thing with the 200S I have.

If you have a battery on the trike for electric start it will most likely be DC as the battery is DC and needs DC to charge it. This is accomplished by adding a voltage rectifier that converts AC to DC.


I have seen people argue it both ways so I had to find out.

The stator in the motor generates AC power. There is an AC Voltage regulator on the trike that prevents the voltage from going too high, but in a batteryless trike I do not think you will find a voltage rectifier. I may be wrong on that one, Im sure there is ONE exception to the rule somewhere that someone will point out - but the 250R, 200X and 200s all put out AC voltage for sure.

[deathman53]

there is a voltage regulator in all atv's with lights or capable of lights. Its usually the small siver box thats on the sub-frame or by the steering stem(quad).

[roger86200x]

there is a voltage regulator in all atv's with lights or capable of lights. Its usually the small siver box thats on the sub-frame or by the steering stem(quad).

Yes and as I stated the regulator does NOT convert AC to DC. A voltage rectifier converts AC to DC.

They all have AC regulators, yes. But what was your point? I already stated that.

200X, 250R, and 200S all put out AC Voltage. They have no rectifier...... only an AC Regulator (which regulates the amount of voltage that goes through it only.

[leokendall]

i'm pretty sure on the e-start bikes the reg and the rectifier are combined in the same box. now on some bike that don't run a battery people have put a rectifer in the system to power accsories like a gps. spot light do not need dc but if it is a rechargable spotlight u will need dc. a voltage reg may have 1, 2, or 4 wires usally 2 yellow wires and a black and a green i belive, and a rectifer usally have a red black green and another colour but i cant remember.

[roger86200x]

Correct. The e-start with a battery, etc usually are combined. Its better to only have 1 box floating around on the bike than 2. PLus its easy to integrate them together and less to break.


I will have to get a rectifier though so I can complete my latest idea, lol.

[atctim]

Where are you measuring your voltage? The stator puts out AC - but go unplug your headlight bulbs and measure it there - it is DC.

Switch your voltmeter from AC to DC and you will get a reading either way - EXAMPLE:

I just took a AA battery and put it on my volt meter. I had the meter set to read up to 3 VDC - and it read 1.5V DC. Then I switched my volt meter to read up to 3 V AC - and checked the battery - it read 1.5 V AC.

Does this mean I have a one of a kind AC battery???????

[Taiser]

The stator puts out AC, the rectifier takes out the "low portion" of the wave and makes it DC. A regulator just maxes out the voltage at about 14.

Battery equiped trikes have a rectifier/regulator, to charge the battery, that's it. Lights run off the battery when connected to minimize the "dim" effect when idling and preserve bulb life with a nice even flow of power. The lights will work without the battery but will dim like crazy everytime you let off on the gas and will burn bulbs out faster. Running without a battery will kill the rectifier in short order.

[leokendall]

to get a good idea where your bike is ac or dc, get a 12 volt dc motor, say like a starter motor. (HAS TO BE DC) sorry for the caps but just want to make sure people understood that. hook up the motor whiile the bike is running, if the motor turns at a fair rpm, your bike is a dc. if it wants to turn but dosen't more like a vibrating efect , then your bike is an ac.
i can get into how ac and dc are different but to shorten the story, dc- direct flow always positive to negative. ac is alterating current, jumps back in forth form positive to negative to netural.

lol another way, dunno if works with 12 volts but grab a hole of the bare wires while the bike is running, if the power makes your hand.arm steffen up like contracting your muscles, that dc for ya, if it knocks ya back, that is ac.

[roger86200x]

Where are you measuring your voltage? The stator puts out AC - but go unplug your headlight bulbs and measure it there - it is DC.

Switch your voltmeter from AC to DC and you will get a reading either way - EXAMPLE:

I just took a AA battery and put it on my volt meter. I had the meter set to read up to 3 VDC - and it read 1.5V DC. Then I switched my volt meter to read up to 3 V AC - and checked the battery - it read 1.5 V AC.

Does this mean I have a one of a kind AC battery???????

OK, Look - STOP arguing with me.

FACT - 250r, 200x, and 200s are AC VOLTAGE.

I measured the voltage with a digital volt meter AT the HEADLIGHT and TAILLIGHT ,NOT THE STATOR. I am a computer Netowrk Administrator with a HIGH level of knowledge in the electrical fields. I know how to run my volt meter and i know the difference between AC and DC - I do not need to be spoon fed.

Your battery thing means that you dont know how to run your volt meter or that its junk. I put my voltmeter on DC and got ZERO (0) volts DC - I set my meter to 20v dc and 200v dc just to prove it. I put it on 200v AC and wouldnt you know it..... 8-12V AC.

Ther is NOT a rectifier on a 250r, 200x, or 200s. The ONLY purpose to have DC on a trike is for electric start. If you have a battery you have DC - if you dont you have AC. There is NO REASON for Honda to waste money to put a rectifier on a trike, unless it had an electric starter.


FACT: THE 1984 250R, 1986 200X, and 1984 200S are AC VOLTAGE. THERE IS NO DC VOTLAGE ON THE TRIKE.

[leokendall]

i' agrees with roger. let me point it plain and simple. Why do you need dc on a bike that will only run the light. you do not. All generators at start puts of ac. some of you may argue but it the case. some generators have lil small boxes on them taht changes it to dc. is just a few lil diaods that do this. Light can run of ac no problem. if you can slow down time alot, you will see that your lights with an ac current will flicker. reason because ac goes from positive to netural to negative to netural to positive and etc, there is a short gap that no power at is is transmitting. so a bike that do not have a dc output and or battery will not have a dc charge, unless someone had modded it to make it dc.
Dc bikes will have a battery for the most parat and or a dc output. you cannot charge a battery with ac power. it has to be a direct current, how can you charge a batter with a current that puttin of positive and negativce currents?

[roger86200x]

to get a good idea where your bike is ac or dc, get a 12 volt dc motor, say like a starter motor. (HAS TO BE DC) sorry for the caps but just want to make sure people understood that. hook up the motor whiile the bike is running, if the motor turns at a fair rpm, your bike is a dc. if it wants to turn but dosen't more like a vibrating efect , then your bike is an ac.
i can get into how ac and dc are different but to shorten the story, dc- direct flow always positive to negative. ac is alterating current, jumps back in forth form positive to negative to netural.

lol another way, dunno if works with 12 volts but grab a hole of the bare wires while the bike is running, if the power makes your hand.arm steffen up like contracting your muscles, that dc for ya, if it knocks ya back, that is ac.

ACTUALLY - When talking DC - electrons flow FROM the negative pole TO the Positive pole...... if you want to get scientific.

AC - jumps from positive to negative to neutral huh?

Nope.
Example: You have 2 hot "phases" of 110/120 coming in your house. You then have a grounding plate in the panel box that your neutral wire and ground wire get hooked to.... the same place or 2 seperate individual grounds.... but they bot hen up grounded. Ground and neutral are the same thing. If your house is wired correctly you can measure about 0 volts from neutral to ground. But you get 110/120 volts AC if you measure hot to ground or hot to neutral. (Hot is the black wire in home wiring and the SMALLER blade type hole in an electrical outlet. Most people believe the hot it the bigger slot but its not.

Same thing with trikes, you have a hot and a ground with AC still. One wire is always the "hot" wire. It is the phase of the electricity or Sine wave that changes polarity - in the same wire.

And leo is right, the lights DO flicker but the human eye cant see it. If you recorded it with an ultra fast camera and slowed it down you would see the flickering. The "HOT" wire goes from +120V in yoru house to -120V in nano seconds. The HOT wire is never a neutral wire or ground though.

[leokendall]

kinda same thing i said but just i said it in a weird prob. verry hard to pick out.
go look at a wiring diagram of your own bike, if there a rectifier *Edited**Edited* bike is dc, if not then it's ac,
rem some reg and rect are the same unit, but usally it's called a regulator rectifier.

for the most part i think people know the diffs but someone people loves to think differently.

and just to note anything is possible with a few mods.

[roger86200x]

kinda same thing i said but just i said it in a weird prob. verry hard to pick out.
go look at a wiring diagram of your own bike, if there a rectifier *Edited**Edited* bike is dc, if not then it's ac,
rem some reg and rect are the same unit, but usally it's called a regulator rectifier.

for the most part i think people know the diffs but someone people loves to think differently.

and just to note anything is possible with a few mods.

LOL... the things people do - u r right.

OR, get a volt meter and be SURE about it :beer

[leokendall]

ACTUALLY - When talking DC - electrons flow FROM the negative pole TO the Positive pole...... if you want to get scientific.

AC - jumps from positive to negative to neutral huh?



on dc, you have positive and negative leads



on ac you have hot and netural leads (no positive no negaitve leads,)



The purpose of a rectifier is to convert an AC waveform into a DC waveform. There are two different rectification circuits, known as 'half-wave' and 'full-wave' rectifiers. Both use components called diodes to convert AC into DC.

A diode is a device which only allows current to flow through it in one direction. In this direction, the diode is said to be 'forward-biased' and the only effect on the signal is that there will be a voltage loss of around 0.7V. In the opposite direction, the diode is said to be 'reverse-biased' and no current will flow though it.


The Half-wave Rectifier

The half-wave rectifier is the simplest type of rectifier since it only uses one diode, as shown in figure 1.

http://www.eleinmec.com/figures/018_01.gif

Figure 2 shows the AC input waveform to this circuit and the resulting output. As you can see, when the AC input is positive, the diode is forward-biased and lets the current through. When the AC input is negative, the diode is reverse-biased and the diode does not let any current through, meaning the output is 0V. Because there is a 0.7V voltage loss across the diode, the peak output voltage will be 0.7V less than Vs.

http://www.eleinmec.com/figures/018_02.gif

While the output of the half-wave rectifier is DC (it is all positive), it would not be suitable as a power supply for a circuit. Firstly, the output voltage continually varies between 0V and Vs-0.7V, and secondly, for half the time there is no output at all.
The Full-wave Rectifier

The circuit in figure 3 addresses the second of these problems since at no time is the output voltage 0V. This time four diodes are arranged so that both the positive and negative parts of the AC waveform are converted to DC. The resulting waveform is shown in figure 4.

http://www.eleinmec.com/figures/018_03.gif

http://www.eleinmec.com/figures/018_04.gif

When the AC input is positive, diodes A and B are forward-biased, while diodes C and D are reverse-biased. When the AC input is negative, the opposite is true - diodes C and D are forward-biased, while diodes A and B are reverse-biased.

One disadvantage of the full-wave rectifier is that there is a voltage loss of 1.4V across the diodes. Why not 2.8V as there are four diodes? Remember that only two of the diodes are passing current at any one time!

While the full-wave rectifier is an improvement on the half-wave rectifier, its output still isn't suitable as a power supply for most circuits since the output voltage still varies between 0V and Vs-1.4V. So, if you put 12V AC in, you will 10.6V DC out.



put that in ya pipe and smoke it lol

taken from

http://www.eleinmec.com/article.asp?18

[roger86200x]

Well.... ok.... but I basically said the same thing.

AC current has a Hot Wire, and a neutral wire.... and sometimes a ground.

"AC - jumps from positive to negative to neutral" huh?

that was a quote from you.... not me... you said there were positive leads lol.....


In DC the electrons flow FROM the negative pole of the battery TO the Positive pole. This is a fact...

Im not sure which one you were disputing so I went over both lol.


"Since we have decided to call electrons "negatively" charged (thanks, Ben!), the negative end of a battery is that end which tries to push electrons out of it. Likewise, the positive end is that end which tries to attract electrons.

With the "+" and "-" ends of the battery not connected to anything, there will be voltage between those two points, but there will be no flow of electrons through the battery, because there is no continuous path for the electrons to move. "
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_1/4.html

Also,

"The alternative to AC is DC, or direct current. Batteries produce DC: A steady stream of electrons flows in one direction only, from the negative to the positive terminal of the battery. "
http://science.howstuffworks.com/power2.htm

Also,

"Originally, electrical power was formed by chemical reaction, and that's still the way that batteries work. This type of current, known as direct current (DC), flows from a negative pole, through an electrical device (such as a light bulb), and on to the positive pole."
http://www.hometips.com/articles/sunset_books/complete_wiring/circuits/electrical_acdc009.html

smoking it? lol

[DeePa]

attention all....we have a new teamgeek

[Mosh]

Guy sure is getting worked up about this.

But I will have to admit,I was a little confused about this as well.
I am going to do some tests this weekend at the bulbs....Satisfy my own curiousuty.

But I just got off the phone with Ricky Stator,and they say that the 86 R uses AC voltage at the bulbs.

[atctim]

My last comment on this subject is this - when I troubleshoot a trike - I check for AC current pre-regulator and DC current post regulator.

That is all. I sure didn't mean to make any enemies - but dang...............

FACT: this thread is useless thus far.
http://www.garmentdistrict.com/store/popculture/familyguy/gostewie_sm.jpg

Oh just one more thing I found while doing some research - you can read all about it here:

http://www.atvconnection.com/Departments/ATV_Tech/A-Primer-on-ATV-Charging-Systems-Page-2.cfm



ATVs have been equipped since their inception with “magneto”-based charging systems. Simply put, Magneto charging systems make use of permanent magnets imbedded into the flywheel assembly. The assembly is located on the “mag” end of the crankshaft. These magnets are passed next to coils of wire assembled into a “stator”. Alternating current is generated in the coils. This is converted into DC power that is usable by the ATV—more on this later.

Voltage regulators

Today’s voltage regulators, also known as rectifier/regulators, rectify the AC output from the stator portion of the magneto assembly to convert it to crude DC. Then they do their best to “level off” the voltage at the specified value so the power is suitable for electrical devices on the system “Bus” and to charge the battery. The operation of a voltage regulator is extremely fast. The regulator adapts to each waveform that is generated by the stator—which is operating at thousands of RPM and has multiple “poles” (usually 6) that each generate 1 sine wave per engine revolution. While operating, most ATVs should have a regulated voltage in the 14.1 to 14.8 volts range unless the voltage is measured in a condition below Break-Even RPM. If the charging system is overburdened, the “Bus” voltage will drop to the voltage level that the battery sustains—usually in the 12+ volt range.

Every ATV Manufacturer has learned through much trial and error about the significance of dealing with heat issues in regulators. The location of some regulators is critical because they use airflow to help them stay cool. Never move a regulator from the location that the OEM placed it in.



I could be wrong about all of this - but I doubt the author of the article linked and quoted above is. AC current is dirty - DC is clean - you use DC whenever you can - That is why ATV electrical systems are DC.

[leokendall]

lol i give up,

[Blown 331]

I say a 250R is DC at the head light. :)

[roger86200x]

I say a 250R is DC at the head light. :)


Lol, then go check it and prove yourSELF wrong! lol :Bounce

The AC is dirty, yes... and the keyword in that article is TODAY... times have changed and almost every atv is DC and electric start or cigarette lighters or fancy digital speedometers.... DC voltage. AGAIN you kill yourself... ATV... ATV is NOT ATC.... ITS 2008, not 1988... times have changed, trikes were from 20 years ago man..... you gotta take what you read in context.

The fact remains that AC is used in ALL TRIKES without a battery/electric start. Im gonna go out on a limb and say that &

I challenge ANYONE who wants to argue this to bring forth proof that a non-electric start ATC (THREE WHEELER) was ever made (FROM THE FACTORY) with DC voltage at the headlights and NO accessories like CB, Digital Dash, cigarette lighter, etc.

I know for a FACT that the 86 200X, 84 250R, and 200S are all run on AC voltage with NO DC voltage on the trike whatsoever.

I am sick of people telling me the wrong sh!t, then b!tching when I ask again because no one actually answered with ANY proof. I have my proof. I measured it my self. Believe it or not I do not care.

This thread is for everyone else who does care - for the people that were confused by the incessant arguing and bickering of people who's @ss is out and argue with no logic or proof. Just becasue there is a light bulb does NOT mean its DC.... do some research. Small lights will run on either. IN FACT my 200s taillight bulb said 12v DC right on it!!! and the power going to it was AC. If you research it you will see that this is the case overall.

1973 Arctic Cat Puma 440 Snowmobile - AC voltage only... Pullstart -headlight, tail lights, brake lights.... NO DC voltage.

If people would backup their statements with evidence it would work out....

UNFORTUNATELY, when people spout off and do not know what they are talking about MANY other members get the wrong information and get confused.

Im done ranting now....

If someone dares challenge me you better bring your evidence and proof... or I'll send you packing with mine to read over.

FACT: 1984 250R, 1986 200X, and 1984 200S are run on entirely AC voltage.

Roger

[Blown 331]

I've got a Fluke 88 automotive meter which is a damn good tool. It was almost $500! Anyway I will check my 1985 ATC250R at the head light plug on AC and DC and report back with both readings. Then I will do the same on my 2003 TRX400EX and report back. According to you they should not read the same.

[roger86200x]

PLEASE do!

The TRX should be DC if it has electric start. If it does not then it could be either AC or DC - but I believe most of todays quads all run on DC.

The ATC 250R will have AC voltage at the headlight.

[tri-Z ripper]

As an electrician myself i found this thread to be an awesome debate!! who would of thought there would be an AC/DC battle on 3ww and not the rock band! awesome guys! and man just go to www.mikeholt.com if you wanna understand ac dc current in lamens terms if anyone didnt understand and would like to!!

p.s way to go roger!

[Dirtcrasher]

Quoting Roger here "I am a computer Netowrk Administrator with a HIGH level of knowledge in the electrical fields. I know how to run my volt meter and i know the difference between AC and DC - I do not need to be spoon fed."

Maybe not spoon fed but I remember not too long ago some difficulty in tightening some 4 clutch bolts..... At which point you whined that I treated you badly :lol: What was it that blew up? - The motor you built or didn't build or replaced or lasted years after you rebuilt it? Or the valve commited suicide into the head?? I'm confused as all hell!! :D

Oh well, we can't all have "high levels of knowledge" I guess....... What does a network administrator have to do with electrical fields or E=I x R or V x A=W??

Quick!! -somebody grab me an oscilloscope please :beer:

[leokendall]

i just gotta add something agian, more like a repeat.

i'm pretty sure a 12v cordless drill has a dc motor. i'm not sure so this experment maybe a flaw, but if u belive *Edited**Edited* bike is a dc when in fact its a ac hook up a codreless drill to it and c if it works. there are some small electronics out there that can run either.

i do agree with roger 100% Why would they make a bike that do not need a battery to be dc? makes no sence.

and in another note. not 100% sure but in a dc bike a battery is there to help keep the voltage at a constant rate. i know on my 200es, which is a dc bike if you take the battery out, and at a very low idol the headlights will get brighter. give her a lil rev and the headlight dimms a lil. in a ac bike the lights are a lil dimmer at low idol and higher the rev the brighter it gets until it reaches the max alowable current.

[leokendall]

http://www.files.3wheelerworld.com/Wiring/ATC250Rx81Thru82.jpg
http://www.files.3wheelerworld.com/Wiring/ATC200Xx87.jpg

where is the rectifier?

http://www.files.3wheelerworld.com/Wiring/ATC250ESx85.jpg
o wait there it is in the 250es, a dc bike with a battery


if you bike has a reg with 2 wires, then your bike is AC
if you bike has a reg with 4 wires, then your bike is DC

[Blown 331]

PLEASE do!

The TRX should be DC if it has electric start. If it does not then it could be either AC or DC - but I believe most of todays quads all run on DC.

The ATC 250R will have AC voltage at the headlight.

The TRX is electric start. That's DC, no debate, I didn't check it.

So I went to the 250R. I unhooked the plug and checked it with a 12v DC test light. It lite up bright. So then I checked it with a DC meter- 0 volts! But it gets kinda weird. I then checked it with a AC meter and got 3 volts. WTF. And the head light is super bright like that.

[night4creeper]

has anyone put a o scope on a trike to see what the frequency is? you guys got me all curious now.. might have to borrow one from work..

[Daddio]

OMG!
WTFO!
I think I've found Romper Room!:w00t: :beer :Bounce :Bounce :welcome: :naughty:

[Billy Golightly]

From what I can remember back when I was dickin around with upping the electrical output of the ignition on my 500R setup, the ignition coil on the stator end was infact AC current, which is what made the fact that the battery worked seem that much odder to me.

[Daddio]

Okay kids in the computer age you can find out anything you want to if you just try. Just search it on a thing called google. This is what I found. I already knew this but this will probably be more interesting to you because it has :pics: .
Now read this and come back and discuss what you have learned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternator

[roger86200x]

OMG! Whoever posted the diagrams, thank you! That is truly inspiring. Oh, I See it was LEO... GO LEO!

The 200X as anyone can now see does NOT have a rectifier AND the stator DIRECTLY hooks to the lights and voltage regulator. The regulator simply sends some of the volts to ground if its over say 14 volts to keep it constant. The stator is connected directly to the lights which makes it CLEARLY AC.... THANK YOU!

If you look at the 250ES you will see a voltage regulator rectifier... this converts ac to DC and regulates the amount.... thus the battery and electric start.....


Blown - was it on high beams or low beams? That could make A difference.... but Im not sure what the low beam output is. Did you check your voltage while you revved up the engine? If so, what did it go up to? Im curious now too... Hey - did you check the voltage with the headlight plugged in and on? That would show a big draw on the system and could definately lower the voltage you are seeing.... not giving you the actual output. If you did you could unplug the headlight completely and check the voltage at the connector.....

As far as the O-Scope... go ahead - I think that everyone could benefit from knowing the actual sine wave pattern....and cycles. If properly used you will find the AC Sine Wave at about 60Hz



Also Mr DB again... u know what? I wrote a whole paragraph about you, then realized you arent worth the words....Ill summarize it for you "*EDIT* OFF" and you have no idea what you are even talking about.....

[roger86200x]

As an electrician myself i found this thread to be an awesome debate!! who would of thought there would be an AC/DC battle on 3ww and not the rock band! awesome guys! and man just go to www.mikeholt.com if you wanna understand ac dc current in lamens terms if anyone didnt understand and would like to!!

p.s way to go roger!

Thanks Ripper!

I feel that in the end everyone will benefit from this... dont you?

All I wanted to do was share my findings and got ripped on immediately...... its kinda *EDITED* up that I post an informational post with real "science" lol and get debated as to what my volt meter said, lol...... the damn thing doesnt lie.....lol:w00t:

[Daddio]

Thanks Ripper!

I feel that in the end everyone will benefit from this... dont you?

All I wanted to do was share my findings and got ripped on immediately...... its kinda *EDITED* up that I post an informational post with real "science" lol and get debated as to what my volt meter said, lol...... the damn thing doesnt lie.....lol:w00t:

Roger, do you have a manual for any of these machines that you are referring to? :wondering If you do you might want to read the electrical section. If you don't have one you might want to get one.
The one I have for the 81-84 250Rs claims that they have a rectifier even though I couldn't find it in any of the schematics. Maybe my manual is wrong but I don't think it is.

[roger86200x]

I do infact have the Official Honda Shop Manual for the 81-84 250R, 86/87 200X and the 84-86 200S.

I read the through all of the electrical sections twice and seen no mention of a rectifier at all. I did see a regulator though.... are you certain you didnt see regulator?


If you did see rectifier could you tell me in what section and subsection of the manual?

I looked extensively at the wiring diagrams before even measuring the voltage... but I looked at them again a few times today...

I really dont see it mentioned anywhere.....

Im anxious for the guy with the O-Scope to get his finding on here so the disbelievers can eat it......

Roger

[roger86200x]

If you would like a copy of the official honda manual I can either send it to you or show you where to get it free.... If you dont have the honda one anyays....
thought Id offer :)

[Daddio]

I actually have the "Official Honda Shop Manual". It is very vague in certain areas, this appears to be one. The manual that talks about the rectifier is actually a Clymer Service / Repair/ Maintenance Manual. It actually goes into more detail than the Honda shop manual in this area. I have no way to scan this book but I may be able to talk my daughter into scanning some of it for me tomorrow. I am pretty sure she has a flatbed scanner.
It is in chapter seven page 131.
CAPACITOR DISCHARGE IGNITION

[Billy Golightly]

This post is worthy of the mad scientists lair I think. Gonna move it there now.

[Daddio]

Here is the page in question. I talked to my daughter and she said that her old scanner won't work with vista so she couldn't scan it. So I took a picture of it with my digital camera. I guess it will work. I could do more later if you would like.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/lrdunlap/100_0621.jpg

[roger86200x]

Found this on wikipedia:

AC-CDI - The AC-CDI module obtains its electricity source solely from the alternating current produced by the alternator. The AC-CDI system is the most basic CDI system which is widely used in small engines.


DC-CDI - The DC-CDI module is powered by the battery, and therefore an additional DC/AC inverter circuit is included in the CDI module to raise the 12 V DC to 400-600 V DC, making the CDI module slightly larger. However, vehicles that use DC-CDI systems have more precise ignition timing and the engine can be started more easily when cold.


I also see in the wiring diagram that the lights are run off a seperate wire from the stator than the CDI. Even IF the CDI did have a rectifier in it and the coil was DC driven the lights would still be DC as they are not connected to the CDI unit. I am going to have to go ahead and say that that manual is just wrong on the rectifier part. A rectifier cannot provide a strong enough output to run an ignition system without a battery - the same reason lights cannot be run off of a rectifier directly without some sort of battery. The rectifier will prematurely burn out.

In conclusion, Im gonna have to say that the lights still are AC even IF the cdi did rectify the coil voltage - but I would bet $100 that that is not the case and that the coil is in fact AC driven as well.

Roger

[dansvan]

I just look at the number on my headlight or tail light bulb and go to the parts store and buy a matching one. But the world is full of useless knowledge. and people that are passionate about it. Kewl.

[roger86200x]

lol.... the world is also full of sheep who just follow in line and dont wonder why or how anything works - like thoughtless zombies working at McDonalds...... its a shame that so many people just dont want to know the why, the how, or the reason that things work or exist - no spark of curiosity, no creativity or logic....... what a shame that this world is devolving like this.

Before technology came this far people had to understand everything about a car to fix the problems with it, now its all forums and google and no thought or troubleshooting on their own.... Its too bad people turn lazy instead of challenging themselves... I guess its easier to rely on others than yourself....

[Daddio]

Here is the whole chapter on the electrical system. Some of you may find it helpful if you are having electrical issues.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/lrdunlap/100_0622.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/lrdunlap/100_0621.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/lrdunlap/100_0623.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/lrdunlap/100_0625.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/lrdunlap/100_0626.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/lrdunlap/100_0627.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/lrdunlap/100_0628.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/lrdunlap/100_0631.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/lrdunlap/100_0629.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/lrdunlap/100_0630.jpg

[dansvan]

lol.... the world is also full of sheep who just follow in line and dont wonder why or how anything works - like thoughtless zombies working at McDonalds...... its a shame that so many people just dont want to know the why, the how, or the reason that things work or exist - no spark of curiosity, no creativity or logic....... what a shame that this world is devolving like this.

Before technology came this far people had to understand everything about a car to fix the problems with it, now its all forums and google and no thought or troubleshooting on their own.... Its too bad people turn lazy instead of challenging themselves... I guess its easier to rely on others than yourself....

Understanding how to diagnose a problem if one exists is one thing. Dwelling on things that are not an issue or problem is another thing entirely. Honda ATC electrical systems have proven to be quite reliable and worry free. Most issues are related to a poor connection. I have no issues with the info in this thread. Just how animated people get over it. I certainly have no need to know how an Epilady works, how diodes are made, or how they determined when to turn on the street lights to have a rich and rewarding life.

[NOS_350X]

Ok guys Alot of the stuff in this thread is over my head. I know the basics of the electircal system of the bikes but thats about it Now here is a question for all of you arguing about the AC/DC thing

On my 85 350x (which i understand is AC) i hook up a 01 TRX450 (which from what i understand its DC) CDI it dosent run, It will start and idle, but over 1/4 throttle it wont run, BUT if the current is diffrent

Now on my Other 350x with a 86 350x stator, With the TRX stator it will run just fine. Now i havent tryed the 350x CDI on the Trx.

From what im understanding the CDI from the TRX in no way should work on the AC current of the 350x???