ATC/TRX450R conversion - Ride report inside page 4

[atctim]

OK guys - had to do it. I have always LOVED the other 450 trikes - from Jason's first one to the evolution to his latest master piece. From Derrick's to Black Sheeps , 250R Fans- and Virgils and Crazy Flights. I am obsessed with the concept.

Here is my build. My cousin Snake is to be thanked for help in this project - he has done more in this build than I have - he has a pretty skilled hand in welding and fabricating - as well as having the right tools - like a porta-band - and a plasma cutter.

I'll keep the intro short. The motivation and reasoning behind this project can be seen at any given OTC race. It seems the 450 powered 4 stroke conversions eat up the 250cc 2-stroke trikes of the mid 1980s. Albeit - I love those machines - I feel that if I want to be competitive in the OTC race series - I must be on a 450. As it stands, Jason Hall, Derrick Adams, and Bill Casey are the only other guys in the circuit running them currently. I have gave up on the ATC500 project and will pass the power onto Max sometime in the future for hill climbing adventures beyond belief.

STAGE 1

The Cut. (November 29, 2008)

Here is the candidate. A 2004 Honda TRX450R. It is a bit ragged out but not a bad start considering what it is. In Stage 1, I cut the front of the quad off. This may look familiar to someone out there ;)

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/quad2.jpg
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/quad4.jpg

And now - the cut - the Snake.....................................

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/450-6.jpg
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/450-2.jpg

The Graft (December 4, 2008)

Trying yet a 3rd approach to this conversion, we grafting on the bottom 1/2 of the engine cradle, steering neck and down tube from an ATC250R - to the existing quad frame. The other 2 successful conversions were A) use a bike frame, and B) custom build the 250R parts I will be using. Derrick Adams approach also worked by using a larger cradled Tri-Z frame. By using the ATC250R front section of frame - I will be able to use the ATC250R triples, forks, and whole front end as at this point I am only starting to utilize it's full potential on a race track. We built the top frame spurs from the steering neck to the existing quad dual split backbone. - I will need to lower the stock foot peg position to make this trike comfortable for me.

Today - 12/4/08 - My CRF tank arrived in the mail. Snake and I completed the graft this evening. First we bent the bottom ATC frame cradle about 1.5" out on each side to meet up with the TRX frame as the ATC frame rails were 5 inches center to center - and the TRX is 8 inches center to center. Then we took some final measurements. We then inserted 3/4" round stock steel slugs into the joints for strength and fit. Upon final welding the frame - it will get a 3/16" skid plate welded to the bottom of the frame - not for protection so much as for frame strength.

Next was the twin spur top sections. We used 1" X 2" 3/16 rectangle tubing for this piece. We also slugged these joints. Some leveling and measuring and we were right where we needed to be.

I worked all week on getting the rake where it should be as well as ride height (ground clearance) - seat height - and wheel base. As you will see in the pictures below - this TRX/ATC is dang near exactly the same everything dimensionally as a 1986 ATC250R. Same seat height - wheel base (close) same rake (a degree or two less than the 86R actually). They really are close. What really came out great was rider position. As I already mentioned - the pegs need lowered - but other than that - this thing fits me like a glove. From the seat - the bars are a perfect distance for me - about 2 or 3 inches longer reach than the R. On my R I feel so cramped - sitting on this - it feels like it actually fits me.

For pictures below - I have it on my old 84R front end - obviously this is for fitment only and will not be used on the finished product.

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/frame1.jpg

[atctim]

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/frame2.jpg
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/frame3.jpg

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/roller1.jpg

The 250R comparison
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/twins.jpg
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/twins2.jpg

A Good Quad - is a Quad like this one shown here
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/good-quad.jpg

Concept photo of a near finished product. We will be using the front hood and headlight off the TRX450R. It will allow me to have headlights and a number plate - as well as retaining more readily available and cheap quad parts. Although it is far from traditional styling - I think it set the styling of this trike far apart from anything else out there. Also - shown in this photo it the correct front forks and triples I will be using.

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/finalfit1.jpg
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/finalfit2.jpg

Stay tuned for finish welding - paint and polish of this new racer!

[rdlsz24]

I knew it would only be a matter of time Tim! Looking good so far. You should be able to get some decent coin for the 450R shocks and a-arms on eBay.

Rob

[SYKO]

cant wait to see it finished!! and shinny! give us a ride report!

[Blown 331]

Wow. That is awsome man. Did you ever think of having Jason Hall make you some tripples so you can run inverted forks?

[The Goat]

Looking very good tim. I like.

[tecat-z]

Way to go Tim. Even though there are many people who think about these hybrids, only a 'few' attempt! And they all have their own personality. I like the beginings, and looks like you'r on the right track. I have always thought however, that the 04-05 trx looked short. Bet ya a +2 arm would really balance that bike out nice. But... don't know how it would effect handling on it though. Guess a few shakedown rides will answer many questions for all of us. Good luck man, and most importantly, have fun.............:beer

[atctim]

Thanks All - Ed - I am having a blast building this thing - it is so much fun creating.

I would like to add this picture before the question even gets asked. It will answer rake questions I believe. This also may be why mine looks "longer" when actually I don't think it is. Optical illusions are always fun...........

Ride Report by the end of the month:naughty:
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/rake.jpg

[Tri-Z 250]

Bike radiators? looks good...can't wait for final report
I just noticed the top photo...lol the kicker..flopped the photo?

[ATC-Eric]

Awesome Tim. Really happy you got it done so fast, no wait for results!

[tanks350x]

pretty clever indeed! I like the way that head light looks on there Keep up the good work and way to go!!

[Blown 331]

Maybe I'm just not looking at it correctly but why the square tubing from above the engine to the tripples? Are you going from round tube to square then back to round? Or am I missing something?

[Russell 350X]

Lookin good Tim, can't wait to see it done.

[the great gazoo]

Wow Tim, way to get it done! Lookin' forward to seeing the end result.

[brapp]

lookin good man did the rid eon my half assed conversion make u need one ?

[BigGreenMachine]

Pretty cool. The 06-up swingers are longer by an inch or more I think.

[atctim]

Holding true with Honda tradition - the previous owner never removed the swingarm bolt to grease it - therefore it had to be cut out. Then I looked at the price of a new one. This project keeps getting better and better - $22 for a new one - LOL what a joke - quad parts are so cheap!!!!

Anyway - frame is stripped and off to Snake's for final welding - gussets. Pics soon to follow - early next week - reassembly (final) begins!!! WOOHOO!!!

[SYKO]

man I cant wait to see the pink frame....thats what you told me in that email right?

[atctim]

uhhhhhhhhh - yeah - to match your thong!

[cr480r]

Did you retain the R geometry? did you use some some of an alignment jig or just eyeball it?

[atctim]

I retained the ATC R geometry - very very close. No jigs involved - but plenty more than "eyeballing". Used cardboard templates, patterns, levels, plumb-bobs, and an angle tool - not sure what it is called.

UPDATE - Snake called and he is done welding the frame already - WOOHOO!! Pics to come tomorrow.

[atctim]

UPDATE----
New trike is tore down to just the frame- Snake has welded it up. the frame is done. Paint and reassembly work will start next week. Here is a TRX/ATC frame:

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/frame10.jpg
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/frame11.jpg
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/frame12.jpg
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/frame13.jpg
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/frame14.jpg
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/frame15.jpg

I love the simplicity and strength of this frame. It is rather heavy - but probably not much heavier than an ATC250r frame. The removable aluminum sub frame helps - as does the aluminum swinger.

[Yamada]

The first time I saw your project I though that the neck wouldn't be strong enough. But now with the finished frame, it look very strong. And Snake look to be a good welder.

[Dirtcrasher]

I like it.... allot! Great mig welding and supports as far as I'm concerned. That perimeter type frame works very well in terms of reducing flexing.....

My only thought is the lower rail. Was a smaller piece of pipe inserted in the rail before the butt welding took place? Thats the only concern I would have and I'm willing to bet you guys did just that!!

An outside larger tube coulkd also be used, but then that lower mount would have to be altered a bit. I guess the only other strength down in that area could be achieved by a welded skid plate that tied it all in.

Very nice stuff Tim, another quad bites the dust!!

Gives me lots of ideas for my future build :beer:

I guess thats the 450R tank mount welded to the top of the upper frame rails??

[atctim]

Thanks DC - just so you know - at all joints - a 3/4" piece of round stock 3 inches long was inserted and welded in for strength (as well as alignment).

The top piece if for the CRF450 gas tank - it fits down inside - and then the shrouds go out around it.

Thanks for the compliments! (and yes - Snake is one heck of a welder - he does it all day long as it is his profession :) )

[atctim]

OK guys - she is coming along and coming back together. Just waiting on a swinger bolt - and some linkage bearings. Engine should be back in tomorrow night - and she may even be fully mobile by the weekend's end.

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/paint1.jpg
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/paint2.jpg
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/paint3.jpg
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/paint4.jpg
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/paint5.jpg
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/paint6.jpg

[SYKO]

looks good! what kind of paint did you end up using... hopefully edog wasnt around when it was painted.

[atctim]

UH well - it is a secret for now - E-dog did poke his head in while painting :)

This is the first run though - need to have everything fit it and some welding still needs done - so we are not sweating the final frame paint yet.
Thanks for the compliments Syko!

[atctim]

After a little more work tonight - she is coming together well. You can really see how the plastic is flowing together. The seat will need a little more work to fit perfectly!

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/assy1.jpg


http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/assy2.jpg


http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/assy3.jpg


http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/assy4.jpg


http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/assy5.jpg


http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/assy6.jpg

[keister]

What a difference from 2 weeks ago. It is coming along nicely..... and quickly.
Even the little stool sitting on the floor beside it looks fast!

[Mr. Clean]

Awesome build, I believe it would be really cool to compile all of the 450r trike conversions, take some photos and forward to Honda, to show them what they are missing...:lol: :welcome:

[atctim]

Yet a bit more progress - picking away - a little bit every night. If all my parts come in today as expected - I may be able to give a ride report by Sunday :)

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/assy7.jpg

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/assy10.jpg

[Kintore]

lookin good there buddddddyyyyyyy!!!!!!

[250rfan]

Yet a bit more progress - picking away - a little bit every night. If all my parts come in today as expected - I may be able to give a ride report by Sunday :)

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/assy7.jpg

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/assy10.jpg



I agree with Kintore - looking good Tim.

Nice to see another ATC 450 conversion unfold, i'm sure you dont need me to tell you that the OEM front end will let the bike down.

But am almost certain once you have ridden the bike, your next mission will be a nice set of triples to complement your USD forks.

The difference is night and day!!

I can also imagine how excited your are at the moment to see this bike take shape and your eagerness to see it finished and get your first ride :w00t:

Look forward to reading your first run thoughts.

[atctim]

Looks like the ride report won;t come until next week. Parts did not show up yet - I would imagine this time of year the delivery services are kind of behind what with all the packages being shipped for Christmas.

We mounted the radiators - I ma not real happy with placement - but this is just version 1.0 Later I will have to do something else - but for now they will work and I will be able to ride it.

Things left to do:
Swingarm bolt
Swingarm pivot bearings / bushings
Install new Rear suspension linkage bearings / bushings
Rear Brake caliper rebuild / buy a good one off ebay
change oil
fill radiator
install new chain
install hose clamps on coolant system
mount fuel petcock
hook up fuel line

Test Ride

[Tri-Z Pilot]

she's comin along quite well, i love the look of that tank! you gonna bring that to josh's? are you gonna make it to pennsyltucky 09? dont know what i'm gonna do without my drinkin buddy:beer

[Louis Mielke]

hmmmm. someone is stealing my version numbering schema. HAHA! Just kidding Tim! I bet you know what I mean now with the the version number nonsense. hehe.

[atctim]

Yes Louis - I feel you for sure now. You know they say that impressions are to most sincere form of flattery. I like you release numbers so much - I just had to copy - plus am I still a member of "Plan B" since I dumped my 500 as my racing counterpart???????:p

[Louis Mielke]

Yes you're definitely still part of "PLAN B" racing but if you sell the 500 then your 500 CLUB membership is revoked. That lil' fofiddy isn't enough! haha!

[sandpuppi101]

Tim are ya gettin the heeby - geebies from the excitement of getting on her and taking her for her virgin ride as a trike yet.. I know I sure the heck would be. It's looking really good ,and I feel for ya brother ,with having to wait on part's and but I'm sure it will be worth te wait.Hey Tim I was looking at the tank frame that you have built,and I never saw it mentioned in the build but is that a modded quad a-arm.. Keep it going Tim,looking forward to the test run now..

[Kintore]

Cant wait to sky that prick on the 65 foot table oooohhh yaaaa I can hear my balls clankin from here!!!!

[atctim]

I was looking at the tank frame that you have built,and I never saw it mentioned in the build but is that a modded quad a-arm..

LOL - no but it does look like one and hadn't the quad front end been spoken for we thought about using one. It is actually old OEM trike handle bars. Not sure if you ever worked with that stuff - but I have a bunch of old bent ones laying around - and dang is it thick - gotta be like 3/16" thick round tube. awesome for little things like this!

[atctim]

I have everything ready to go except - rear brake caliper - in route - being shipped from Iowa,
swing arm bolt - should be here tomorrow, hot start cable - should be here tomorrow as well. I also still need
to mount the nose cone. It is just sitting on there. I also need to get a 250R front fender to replace
the 350X fender that is on there. If someone has one they will sell me at a very reasonable price - need not be perfect - just not cracked.
Next year - maybe I will get some inverts on this bad boy. Here are
some final pictures before the ride test. My next post will be a test ride post. Enjoy boys.

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/final1.jpg

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/final2.jpg

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/final3.jpg

This trike will be on the track at Summit Indoor on January 10th for sure!

[neo19672000]

Wicked Sweet!!!!

[atctim]

Things STILL left to do:
Swing arm bolt (still waiting on part)
change oil
buy and install Geo Metro Radiator Cap (yes - they fit 250R radiators)
install new chain
mount fuel petcock
hook up fuel line
hook up oil warning light and make mount to hold it and the key switch
Install front number plate (doing away with nose cone for now)
bleed rear brakes
make bottom shroud to radiator mounts
Touch up paint in a few spots
install new hot start cable
clean and reinstall swinger skidplate
fab up front seat to tank latch - plastic dress up cover
take a bunch of photos OUTDOORS - E-Dog style

Test Ride

After test ride and 2 Summit Indoor races -
10 inch front wheel with Holeshot tire
10 inch rear wheels with Fast trekkers
Rear Wheel Spacers
new handle bars
graphics kit
re-cover seat

[atctim]

Ride Report -

On Saturday, January 3rd I got to take my first test ride.It has a great feel. Seems to handle well - but it was on snow with far from new tires so it does spin alot.

I will need wheel spacers (an extended axle sometime). It feels taller than a 250R - and the bars are out in front of you farther which for my large stature feels much better. The whole bike feels large - which is also good for me.

The 4 storke power is a nice change for smooth power all the way through the revs - no 2 stroke light switch. I raced Casper with it on pavement and realized that the clutch does slip some - so once that gets replaced I will have to have a rematch. We were near dead even the whole race - but he was out in front until he ran out of gear and I gained on him then.

The front end feels real well - even on pavement with full acceleration the front end does not lift like I thought it would.

Also - I will need to make some minor adjustments on the tank shrouds by pulling them in some as I do not like the way they rub my knees.

Many board members got to ride it and they should chime in with their opinions as to what they thought of it.

It also hold up well to crashing into birdhouse poles ;)

[Kintore]

I rode the beast and coundlt agree more Tim.

Felt to big for me honestly. Im only like 5 9 or 5 10 and it felt way to big for me. I dont have the body nor the weight to make it sit low enough to feel right. For me being about 200 with gear it didnt sit low enough for my likings/top heavy.

But thwen again im used to my LT elka with lowering link and a wide 50 inch 250r rear end.

V 1.0 always needs work and I know your going to head the right way with it pal

BADASS MACHINE WOOT WOOT


(cough cough too bad itll be behind me at the indoor cough cough)

[atctim]

Well - it is dirty from riding it - but here are some pictures. Here is V1.0 done and ready for this weekends Indoor Race.

NOTE - It will get a new seat cover and some unbent handle bars soon after this race:)

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/v11.jpg
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/v12.jpg
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/v13.jpg
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/v14.jpg
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/v15.jpg

[Russell 350X]

Looks saweet lol.

[atctim]

I have plans as soon as the Feb 28th Summit Indoor race is over to tear down the 450 and finish up all the details that never got finished - including a good color scheme. I was in a huge rush to get it finished up before the first race back on Jan 10th.

Keep in mind - the "orangish" color will actually be fluorescent bright orange.

Here is my first concept of how it will look.

[atctim]

OK - so I finally got some pics of it outside in the sunlight. Had it for a nice little trail ride today.

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/450R-1.jpg

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/450R-2.jpg

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/450R-3.jpg

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/450R-4.jpg

http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/450/450R-5.jpg

[Russell 350X]

That sucker is downright SEXY!!! How good does she ride?

[atctim]

She rides super - handles great - a bit wide for the trails with the wheel spacers though (51 + inches)!

Suspension is great - inverts and Elka rear to come later this summer!

[Kintore]

Lookin good timmy!

ill see ya soon buddy!

[jason 32]

can you take the seat cover off,and trim the plastic seat base to match the tank a little better?

[atctim]

can you take the seat cover off,and trim the plastic seat base to match the tank a little better?

Not really - that is as good as it gets because the angle of the tank and the way it sits and mounts. Plus it looks like an Authentic Honda that way ;)

[atctim]

Last pictures for a while. Since the last photos I have done the following:

New seat cover
New Front Fender
Repsol theme decals
New axle
some new paint - orange highlights to match repsol theme
New rear shock - Elka
New Bars

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy149/timkeister/mal1.jpg

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy149/timkeister/mal4.jpg

She's come along way I think from beginning to now!