general motors stock

[SCRAMCHARGER318]

anyone own any gm stock? is now a good time to buy? it's currently trading just under 4$ a share, but my thinking is if the gov approves the bailout bill that gm would produce a good return, i have never bought stock before and i'm looking to get into it. also the same deal with ford, they're share price is just about 3$ and if they get bailout bill they should have a nice jump, correct? not saying i would hold onto the stock very long, unless gm starts to turn around for good or at least the forseable future. but the down side is if they go under i'm out whatever i put in, i was thinking about throwing 500$ at gm and see what happens.
any opinions greatly appreciated.

[Macs]

My take on the subject is the bailouts are going to go straight to the fatcats and to the unions. There might be a tiny jump but it will be very short lasting and will end with the bankrupcy court tearing the unions apart. Remember, these bailouts are just loans. They have to pay back this money. So really this will be another very high debt that they will incur. There sales will have to almost double right after the bailout for them to maintain. But, $500.... You will not see much return anyway. With that amount i would start with penny stocks. They seem to be the only thing you can make a profit off of right now and they are fun. I buy and sell all day long just for grins and have been making a bit.

[SCRAMCHARGER318]

I think it was a couple of weeks ago, but when the gov bailed out citigroup they're stocks soared 54% in 1 day, however i believe they fell back down somewhat since then. but if i threw 500 at gm and something similar happens the day after the bailout(if theres a bailout) and just sell it off like that, taking my little piece of pie with me, then explore options at that point. does this seem feasable?
or would it be throwing my money away,

[Macs]

The automotive industry is in a completly diffrent boat then the financial instituitions. They are not even comparable. You will always be able to sale money but selling a vehicle for thousands more than the competion is a diffrent story. Why is ii that the big 3 are the only ones having financial trouble? They are the only manufactures in america involved in the auto union. Nissan, Toyota and a few others have manufactures in the US and are not seeing any issues. They have problems that throwing money at it will not fix. Disbanning the unions would be the only way for a long term fix. Lets take Ford for example. It has been on a 3 year slope. This is something that will not fix overnight. Sure, it is possible you could have a quick one day spike. But it is just as plausible that you could have the spike go the otherway.

I am by far not any kind of financial consultant. I play in the stock market and have lost big and learned from those mistakes. I have my long term investments and i do have Ford stock. But i am not going to touch it for many many years. In the last year i have had a 2000% return day trading with penny stocks especially within funeral type companies. I have lost huge amounts on my long term stocks which i have confidence will eventually go up.

Do what you want, that is how you learn. By the way ETNL i have made quite a bit off of anf i amfixing to buy in to it again and i just bought 500,000 shares of PUPS. I am expecting it to go up right after the first of the year.

[firehart]

Why do American big businesses always cut the bottom first? Its like cutting off your feet. I think the Big Three and the UAW should cut out a bunch of middle management.

[Macs]

Why do American big businesses always cut the bottom first? Its like cutting off your feet. I think the Big Three and the UAW should cut out a bunch of middle management.


I agree but that will not happen until bankrupcy court starts tearing them apart. They need to have a plan. But instead they think the bailout will keep them going and hope the market takes a turn. They need to completly change there financial plan and structure. But of course if they did this they wouldnt need the loan anyway.

[SCRAMCHARGER318]

well i heard it isnt finallized yet but they have come to a agreement at 15 billion,
but the gm ceo said on fox that it's only going to be a down payment, and they be back in a few months for another loan. cyprus the company that owns chrysler is setting on quite a few billion but they wont even invest it in there own company, tells ya somethin don't it. they think its a bad investment and would rather have US bail them out. i wonder what it's gonna look like around here in a few months. the local gm plant will be closing by dec 09' regardless if they get the loan or not. My great granfather retired out of that place in 1965, also they have announed a local dealership (classic chevrolet) will also be closing it doors as soon as they get the dead weight of the lot, ie suburbans, tahoes, silverado's etc.

[firehart]

Cypress is not a car maker, they are a bunch of bankers. Before SuperValu bought my employer (Albertsons), they were looking at us. Right now we are having issues too. The cooperate offices don't know or care about the customer's needs or wants. They just think that they can cram high prices and garbage merchandise down the consumer's throat. Maybe this recession will wake them up a little.

[SCRAMCHARGER318]

but cypress does own chrysler correct? either way cypress has money but wont use any of it on chrysler. firehart couldn't agree with ya more about the cheap merchandise at outragous prices. you can't sell a mcdonalds double cheese burger for the price of wendys. once upon a time i worked for a local muffler shop.
say a set of pads cost them 10$ they would sell them for 140$ BUT give you 50% off so its only 70$. they still make alot and you think you got a deal. only bad part is if you where a tech like i was and worked off commision, they would make you sell the cheap part at the high price and the car would usually come back, WHY you may ask, simply becuase they were to cheap to buy the good part in the first place so instead of buying 1 good set of pads, they would rather buy the cheap set first and wind up buying a good set latter. i tried to explain that to them but you know how stupid some business people are.

[firehart]

I'm a dairy department manager. Our store is in an older part of town where everyone is on a limited income. It really bugs me that our cooperate office and warehouse send me merchandise that won't sell. I end up throwing it away ( they won't let me mark it down anymore). That means everything else is marked up to cover the loses. Last week I threw away close to $1000.00 worth of mechandise that went out of date. If I don't order it in so many weeks, the computers automatically order it for you.

[firehart]

So does any car maker offer just a basic economy car that doesn't have thousands of dollars of options? I won't mind getting a basic new Toyota Tacoma if they made one. No air, no automatic, no cd player, no fancy wheels, no custom paint, bench seat.

[SCRAMCHARGER318]

i would just buy a good used car or truck with low miles, you loose a ton of money those first couple years with a new car. right now im rollin around in a 95 dodge 1 ton van which used to be a old verizon wireless van. the only option i know of that it has is the 360 magnum, got it for 500$ w/53,000 miles at that time.
been drivin it for 2 years all i had to do to it is the alternator, heater core, and tires once. sure it aint the best on gas, but it's still alot cheaper than buyin a new gm van for 20,000$. besides i like to work on my own stuff, that way i know it's done right. or at least doneshens

[firehart]

My main transportation is a 88 Toyota pickup that I bought ten years ago for $150.00. It was totaled and we put a hood and fender on it. In ten years I've replaced, The water pump, radiator, and clutch fan.

[SCRAMCHARGER318]

gotta love those old toyota's, man they could take a beating. do they rust out bad out there in the west like they do in michigan? cuze its bad around here, the motor and driveline will go forever but the body. if you see any old toy's around here they all got flat beds becuase the originals rusted off.

[firehart]

In 1965 we lived in outskirts of Chicago. I remember how the cars looked there. That was the first time a small town boy from Idaho ever saw a black person. And that was right when all the civil rights stuff started. It didn't take my folks long to move back here to Spudland.

[SCRAMCHARGER318]

did you guys see that the senate killed the bailout bill? bad new for chrysler and gm. ford mortgaged all they're property for 22 billion to keep them above water for a while, i'm told ultimately it was the UAW unwillingness to take pay/benefit cuts that killed the deal.
i still got a feeling that the gov might still bail'em out but otherwise next year is going to be quite interesting. especially here in michigan where we have the highest number of auto jobs in the states.

[firehart]

A few greased palms and few under the table grafts and it'll be back on again.

[Billy Golightly]

I just heard them say on Fox that the total cost per hour for a UAW employee at a GM plant is $74 an hour. And its $44 and some change at a Toyota plant.


HOW can the Union even think they are on the same scale and are competitive with that kind of a difference? Its nearly double!

[firehart]

I wonder how much more management the big 3 have? Even the company I work for seems to think they need more management and less laborors.

[The Goat]

You know ayn rand was a fool, but this is atlas shrugged. Maybe she wasn't a fool afterall... Maybe.

[SCRAMCHARGER318]

well they got they're bailout or at least gm and chrysler did. ford i guess is gonna hang tough until they run outa money, even though they got it the local gm plant here is still goin to be shut down by next december, and a couple local chevy dealerships are folding up, chrysler aint much better they're combining they're two biggest dealers in west michigan into one and laying off half the staff. i still don't see any light at the end of this recession tunnel were all in.
TIME TO BUY HONDA STOCK!!! at least you know they'll be around for awhile still.:rolleyes:

[SWIGIN]

ford was smart enough to see this comming and sold off land rover and jag...they still have volvo to sell i guess.

does it realy suprise you that any of the big 3 are going to down size? they have to...but like i said ford did it early and was always smaller then GM so they had less over head to worry about.

[hublake]

I think that both the UAW and GM have to share the blame for alot of this mess. Years ago( back in the 60s & 70s) when things were going good for GM they were willing to give the UAW workers anything they wanted and of course now the UAW doesn't not want to give anything back. If you look at the GM & UAW situation in Flint, MI you can see what the local UAW did to Buick. You drive along I-475 for a couple of miles where the Buick complex used to be and it is nothing but empty fields of concrete. Across town where there were some Chevy factories their local union was willing to work with GM and they are still there today. I hired in to Buick right after the big strike in 64 but didn't stay long. My opinion.

[SCRAMCHARGER318]

hey hublake how much snow you got? i just got about 8 inches down here in grand rapids, i was laughing this morning at all the front wheel drive cars couldn't go through the snow becuase theyre to low to the ground, however my 1 ton dodge van cruised all the way to work with no problems, passing cars along the way. im pretty sure the reason ford doesn't need a loan is becuase they mortgaged all there property for 22 billion, i doesnt suprise me theyre shutting factories down it just disapoints me. i have been driving past that gm plant ever since the day i was born. it almost like a part of the town i grew up in is gone forever.

[SWIGIN]

they did mortgage there property...not a bad thing to do while its worth something.

but in a ford mag my buddy gets they talked to some higher up and they said they sold off those other brands to down size and regroup.....they seen the hand wrighting on the wall.

[hublake]

scramcharger318

They said we would probably get about 6". I think we have that already. Got to go to Flint in the morning. They were predicting 10-14" down there. Flint is like a ghost town now compared to the 60s.

[83ATC185S]

gotta love those old toyota's, man they could take a beating. do they rust out bad out there in the west like they do in michigan? cuze its bad around here, the motor and driveline will go forever but the body. if you see any old toy's around here they all got flat beds becuase the originals rusted off.

off topic but there is hardly any rust out here in AZ, it snows here but they dont use salt on the roads, so as long as you keep your car clean it wont rust,besides surface rust :)

[SCRAMCHARGER318]

off topic but there is hardly any rust out here in AZ, it snows here but they dont use salt on the roads, so as long as you keep your car clean it wont rust,besides surface rust :)

you guys got it lucky, i've been looking for a old plymouth duster or scamp and you can't find anything solid hear, unless they want a mint for it.

[firehart]

My nephew has a Demon that he'd probably sell. Too bad its set up fot 1/4 mile racing.