Getting my first ATV...Banshee or....??

[59bisquik]

First a little background... My wife and her parents have been duners for years. They grew up with 40hp VW rails and old school ATC's. My wife currently rides a 85 Kawi Tecate ATC and I pretty much stick to my rail. Chenowth 2LW frame with mid travel and 220hp Suby Turbo.

Last trip out, I broke a CV on my rail and got a bit more bike time. With very little ATV experience I am having trouble deciding on what I want to get. We headed off to comp hill at Dumont. Started off with a new Honda 400 quad...not very exciting. Then a few trips up on an 08 Honda 450 quad, much better! Last but not least, a few trips up on the wifes 250 2-stroke ATC. The 250 and 450 Honda both really felt good. I really liked the 2 stroke riding experience, but prefered the control and supsension of the 450 Honda. So the wife suggested a Banshee, 2 stoke manners and quad suspension.

The bike will see mainly dunes at Glamis and Dumont. Not a trail bike, no heavy desert use...mostly sand.

Another thought.... What about a Suzuki LT500?? THats a quick 2 stroker too!

I have never ridden one and dont know anybody with one. Not sure if its the right bike for me or not. Just looking for suggestions and tips. I am looking to get one in Jan or Feb!

[smokinwrench]

I have owned several quads, totally modded banshee, by far the fastest quad I have ever owned. It was broke down all the time, overheating puking water, blew out 2nd gear 3 times in a few months from drag racing at Little Sahara. Handling was terrible in whoops it would just bounce no matter how I set the suspension.

Then I got a 400ex it was slow but handled good. Then I installed stage 3 cam, cold air intake, 11:1 wiseco, exhaust and it ran good but never a match for a piped 450.

Then I got a Predator that was 10 times better then the modded 400ex.

Next came the 525 Outlaw that I still have power is unreal and handling is awesome. I would get another but not with the IRS, I would get the solid rear axle.

I have also put alot of time in on yfz's, power and handling is unreal and have a 2 stroke feel. Install a desert seat since the stock one feels liek your riding a 2x4 and you would be good togo. New 09 yfz is also EFI.

I have also ridden 250r's a bunch, I had a 85 atc R. If your wanting a 2 stroke this is the only way togo. Right now you can buy a 250r with aftermarket everything, frame, a arms, shocks, 330 kit for about $3000 range.

As far as the quadzilla, I looked into those a few years ago, couple forsale close to me. They need lots of maintenance, crank bearings need replaced often. Power is unreal though.

Looks like a wrote a book for ya but I think this is the kind of info you were wanting.

[BigGreenMachine]

First off, your wife is awsome to be riding a Tecate, an 85 at that! Pics!?

Secondly, a Banshee would be my choice over anything out there for a duner. They can be had cheap, parts are everywhere for them and with a mild build can put out some great power. Port it, pipe it and shave as much weight as you can...that thing will rip.

Other great options are the 450 class race quads. The power they make with an aftermarket cam, pipe and intake setup is very twostroke like. I find my 08 450R with those mods really strong. Stock power was nothing to scoff at either.

If you are thinking about a trike at all then go with an 86 ATC250R. Lots of aftermarket available for them.

[diggerzmound]

500's ride like a brick..

A banshee is a good duner, easy and cheap to fix!

[Tri-Z Pilot]

yeah banshees are fast, but the chassis and suspension are lacking in stock form, and come rebuild time it gets quite pricey because you have to buy two of everything (twin cylinder, twin carbs).

if you liked the tec3, you could find a nice tec4,they are sweet lookin and got about the same power as the trike, but parts are a little hard to come by, but not too bad. the best way to go would probably be a TRX250R, very reliable, hop up and aftermarket parts are near endless, and they are 6 speed too.

as far as fourstrokes, all the 450's are basically on par with each other, so just go with which one you like best.

[ditchmud]

In my opinion these are my picks:
1. TRX250R or ATC250R parts are plentifull, handling is the best, plenty of power.

2. Banshee made for the dunes and not good for much else in my opinion. Maintenance can be costly and is better off left stock for reliabillity.

3. 450R or YFZ 450 Both are equally good relible machines with gobs of power.

4. 700 raptor lots of power and a good comfy ride.

5. Quadzilla it would be cool to own and fast as all heck, but the reliability isn't the best and parts can be a mother to find for these old beasts.

[Trosar]

If your looking for a quad in the sand banshees are deffinently the hcoice of most people. Parts are way more avaiable then lt500r. There are so many more mods you can do to banshees its probably the best quad to get from what your saying you want

[Tri-Z Pilot]

In my opinion these are my picks:
1. TRX250R or ATC250R parts are plentifull, handling is the best, plenty of power.

2. Banshee made for the dunes and not good for much else in my opinion. Maintenance can be costly and is better off left stock for reliabillity.

3. 450R or YFZ 450 Both are equally good relible machines with gobs of power.

4. 700 raptor lots of power and a good comfy ride.

5. Quadzilla it would be cool to own and fast as all heck, but the reliability isn't the best and parts can be a mother to find for these old beasts.

I believe you missed the 85/86 for the ATC250R in #1, just wanted to clear that up so theres no confusion. Have you ridden the raptor 700? I was just wondering how different it was than the 660's, they didnt impress me one bit. The thing I hated the most about them was the very aggressive bump steer.
I would love a Zilla, there isnt much that can top that for power (stock for stock). I knew a guy that said he smoked one on his banshee in a drag (just k&n filter on the Shee). I dont care how bad of a rider you are, there's no way that could happen, the guy is an exaggerator also.
I had an article from Dirtwheels a couple years ago where Duncan Racing went over all the stuff they offer to greatly improve reliability on the Zilla. I believe it had to do with the airbox and carb sealing, head and cylinder machining to keep everything tight, and some other maching on the cases, counterbalancer, and crank to balance the assembly and strengthen the integrity of the whole setup. Other than that the only real problem is as you said parts avaliability (what were the production years 89-92?), and the machine rattling everything loose over the increased vibration of a two stroke 500 in a quad chassis (quad chassis handle vibration differently than trikes and bikes, something to do with the way the vibration finds its way down the forks on a bike dampens it greatly), quads dont have that setup.

[ditchmud]

Yes I definitely was talking about a water cooled 85-86 ATC250R.

I have ridden a 700 raptor and it has a lot more to offer than a 660. The 700 is also fuel injected which is a plus in my opinion.

[BigGreenMachine]

yeah banshees are fast, but the chassis and suspension are lacking in stock form, and come rebuild time it gets quite pricey because you have to buy two of everything (twin cylinder, twin carbs).



as far as fourstrokes, all the 450's are basically on par with each other, so just go with which one you like best.


I agree with the 450R's being all closely matched but your two of everything idea is flawed when compared directly to the high price of aftermarket parts for the new 450's.

For the price I paid for my TRX450R's pipe I could have gotten pipes and jetting for a Banshee. For the price of my TRX450R's cam and install I could have gotten a real good port job for a Banshee. For the price of my TRX450R's intake I could have gotten the same Pro Design intake for a Banshee. Those mods on a Shee would put out more HP then the mods to my R.


As far as the Banshee being unreliable....thats BS. The 450's are by far the less reliable machines.

As handling goes, thats not much to worry about considering your going to want an extended swingarm on either. The Banshee also has the heavier front end for hillclimbing and holeshots.

[Dammit!]

I would love a Zilla, there isnt much that can top that for power (stock for stock). I knew a guy that said he smoked one on his banshee in a drag (just k&n filter on the Shee). I dont care how bad of a rider you are, there's no way that could happen, the guy is an exaggerator also.


I've beaten Zillas on my 250r so don't be so sure.

My 2 cents,

Banshees are the way to go if you want the big power and are willing and able to spend the big money to get it. If you plan to leave it more or less stock you might consider option two below.

A TRX250R would be a great choice if you just want a good running 2-stroke that's relatively low maintenance and aren't concerned about being the fastest guy at the hill. They're easy to find and the 250r motor is one of the most reliable 2-stroke engines ever made. You can make them fast as well but for all out speed you won't be touching the high dollar banshees at the dunes.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Greenmachine, I was basing the rule of the banshees twin cylinder cost to a single cylinder two stroke, fourstrokes are a completely different process come rebuild time, although I didnt know it was that pricey for hop ups. (man I love my 20 some year old CHEAPIE motors, lol) I dont think I bashed the shee for reliability, you will have problems with all makes of bikes depending how well they were taken care of.
Dammit What did you have done to your R at the time? Was it an open drag, or other environment?

I was pretty much basing a stock Zilla against stock machines from around the same era, in a straight line drag. 500's have so much torque and power its unreal, if you can hook up you should have no problem smokin lower displacement engines of any kind (stock). although these 450's are probably closest out of anything right out of the box. I dont know, I really havent read up on the 450's too much, and I've never owned one or had the chance to put one up against bikes of different calibers

[Tri-Z Pilot]

on second thought, another good choice would be a Z400, possibly with a 440 kit and the usual mods that go along with a 440. The 440's (or they may even be 450 kits now) always woke up the 400 motors (ex included), and while not quite as quick as the new 450's, it should be fairly close, plus they are more relible as the 400 series of motor have been around for quite some time and have held up well.
You could take what I said and apply that to the Honda 400ex, but the Z400 has liquid cooling, reverse (although 400ex's have reverse after 04 I think it was), and the Z400 has a twin overhead cam, while the EX is only one.

[Dammit!]

Dammit What did you have done to your R at the time? Was it an open drag, or other environment?



Typical stuff. Ported motor with the usual bolt on mods (pipe, filter, carb, rad valve). Most recently was at the drag strip at the dunes. Some guy on a zilla was racing another guy on a 250r trike and beating him. I lined up and beat them both. Honestly I was surprised but after talking to some people I guess they aren't that fast without some good work done to them. It is a 500c 2-stroke though so I'm sure in the right hands it could be made to fly.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Yeah that's basically the kicker there, 500's should be fairly fast you would think, but I guess it all depends on the setup and tuning. I rode one around the time I was 14, and thought it was wicked fast, but I didnt really have any seat time on other high performance machines either at that time.
Then again dude I know saying he beat one on a banshee, I just dont believe. Banshees in stock form dont impress me. It doesnt take hardly any mods at all for a 250 to straight out kill a banshee.

[Groundworx]

In the sand, I think you will have a hard time beating a modded Banshee. Alot of people are going with the YFZ450. I don't recommend this unless you go with a 06-up. I believe 06 was the year they fixed thier bottom end problem. The 700 Raptor isn't bad, but it still feels top heavy like the 660. Still a decent bike though. Of the new 450s, I prefer the Suzuki LTR or the Honda. The Kawi revs really high, really fast. The Honda is a pretty reliable bike. It fits me better due to my size. I really like the LTR because of the fuel injection and how they really wake up to mods. You can have one of those running around 50hp with a cherry bomb, removing the baffle and air box lid. The cherry bomb is only about $30. You can get even more power with the full exhaust. Someone else mentioned the Outlaw 525. That would also be a good choice. In the sand, I would go with a straight axle. The IRS is awesome in the trails. Tons of traction. The KTM 525 engine is a rocket as well.

It sucks you are not closer to me. I have most of these out here right now and you could come ride and compare them.

[z400guy28]

In my poinion a Banshee is the way to go for dunes but mine was unreliable. But i live in New York and the only thing to ride is woods which the Shee was not made for. I actually like the suspension on the Shee. Mine kept overheating then this part would go bad and then another after another so i got rid of her and since have moved to 4 strokes and i love the power they put out. Plus for some reason i think it's much easier to wheely 4 strokes because of the bottom end they have. Theire's plenty of choices out there and everyone on here has their own favorite quad and manufacture. Good luck